Retro Reads discussion

This thread is for open spoilers (of this book) & final conclusions!

Finished and I enjoyed it a lot. I like that she focused on a romance between older people (at least, around 40) and didn’t ignore their physical attraction. Enjoyed how Miss Brandon was depicted too—she was a grotesque figure but also more than that. Her suffering made her fractious but she kept wanting to reach out and express love and appreciation.

The one character who irritated me was Hilary Grant. How many times can a character be made to say, “I like you because you want to hear me talk about myself?” I remember being that self-involved at his age but would rather forget! His mother was delightfully infuriating and also a very familiar type.

As for Mrs. Brandon, I don’t know. Such women can be the glue of small-town life but she was pretty passive and shallow. The ending scene left a bit of a bad taste in my mouth: I get that the flirting with Noel Merton was all in fun but it’s vanity on her part and dangerous on his; if Lydia ever noticed it would be hurtful to her. I like Mrs. Morland’s ditziness better, she’s shrewder and more active. It was nice to see Tony again; I wonder how he will fit into life as an adult. Though maybe the war will beat some of his singularity out of him.

Fun to see so many old friends again!

I enjoyed it so much - and thank you for concisely summing up what I liked, along with the few bits that irritated me. I agree about Hilary Grant, he really Was hopelessly self-centered, I worry about young men like that glomming on to a devoted younger woman! The marriage would implode once she grew up and gained her own interests, realized what a bunch of hot air he was…

Also, on Mrs. Brandon, I agree; first time I read it, the ending with Noel made me uncomfortable, and after reading further in the series, I learned (view spoiler)[Noel has a serious flirtation in a later book, after he and Lydia are married, which hurts her deeply. Could’ve strangled him! And honestly, I never felt the same about him after… (hide spoiler)]

Other than those bits, I really appreciated the hidden depths for Miss Brandon (her ability to chuckle naughtily at the peccadilloes of her brother and fellow cads), her anonymous charitable giving, and her generous bequest to Miss Morris. She may have been a virginal spinster, but she seemed pretty savvy about the way her world worked! And Mrs. Grant was so hilariously obtuse and obnoxious, she gave good value! And of course, the ongoing war between those two domestic tyrants, Rose and Nurse - delightful, and constantly bubbling in the background of so many already humorous scenes- just adds to my enjoyment!

Interesting spoiler! I’m not surprised, Thirkell was clearly planting that seed here.

Glad you mentioned Rose and Nurse! Having had to manage staff for a few elderly family members, the jealousy and maneuvering rang very true for me. I think it’s a form of self-assertion among people in a subordinate position.

Anyone who hasn’t read ahead in the Barsetshire series, please don’t read my spoiler! I thought it was pretty obvious, knowing the personalities involved, but still…

That’s funny, Abigail, but helpful to hear from someone who’s dealt with it; did you feel almost intimidated, as many of Thirkell’s characters do, by feuding staff, trying to manage the family? Always seems like the lady of the house just wants peace, so gives in to the domestic tyranny to get it, ceding ground constantly. That just feeds the flames between Nurse and Rose! And I agree, self-assertion is a great term for it.

Your description is spot-on! There was the one who constantly threatened to quit if I didn't obtain expensive medications for a relative back in Poland (she was earning a lot more than I at the time, and had no living expenses); we ultimately gave her my great-grandmother's mink coat to get her to go away. All sorts of acting out: people opening other people's pay envelopes so they could see what others were earning and complain. Constant guilting on the days I had to work that I wasn't there doing tasks they could perfectly well do. There was the one who made up stories about another caregiver having sex while on duty (among many other false accusations); rather than have all the rest of the staffers quit, we ultimately paid her severance and I lied that my mother had had a stroke over the weekend and was in a recovery center 50 miles away, no visitors allowed, so she wouldn't try to verify my assertion. The things you do to win peace! Expensive personal items and cash gifts distributed all around after my mother's death. Phony letters of recommendation.

I dealt with coordinating care for family invalids over 32 years and three generations, so you can imagine I'm done with it!

Abigail wrote: "Your description is spot-on! There was the one who constantly threatened to quit if I didn't obtain expensive medications for a relative back in Poland (she was earning a lot more than I at the tim..."

Oh, wow, you’ve had it much worse than Mrs. Brandon, at least Rose and Nurse were fighting over her attention because they were her devoted slaves. You had to deal with nuts and borderline crooks, it sounds like! Bless you, my friend, I imagine you are relieved to be done with it…

Yes, I’m now emulating Mrs. Brandon in my indolence and flower arranging! 😁

😉😂

I'm finding that I can tolerate these characters for 50 pages at a time. If I stick with them too long, they all begin to annoy me, and that spoils my enjoyment.

Hilary is especially annoying, which I suspect he is meant to be. I am amused by how much more likeable he is when he forgets his worship of Mrs. Brandon and acts like an average young man.

Yes! He definitely seems a Thirkell “type” - annoying, worshipful, insecure young men crushing on attractive older women. He’s not as bad as some we’ve read in her books, who were ill tempered and moody, also - really an annoying combination!

Finished and enjoyed it immensely the second time around.
I do think Mrs. Grant had the best lines. “I am like the lizards, those graceful little creatures. I can spend all day with my brother the sun and feel refreshed.” She was THE most affected yet authentic character.
I liked all the other characters and thought it was lovely that Miss Morris found her true calling as a minister’s wife. How happy the newlyweds will be!
The lovely Mrs. Brandon was dumb like a fox, but so happy with her life and willing to accommodate others that I couldn’t really dislike her either.

Excellent description of Mrs Grant! Totally agree about Miss Morris, her whole story arc pleased me - felt it for every faded, mousy companion to a demanding old lady! I agree about Mrs. Brandon, too - she was fluffy and rather simple, but I admired how she stepped up when needed and became the decisive County matron when needed, like after Aunt Sissie’s death - love the way she swept in, dealing the house, the servants, and rescuing Miss Morris in one fell swoop. All the more appreciated because it was unexpected!

Finished! At the start of the book, I was wondering if I had reached the end of my Thirkell tolerance, but I just loved the fête! My low mind had me howling at the (if you don't have a low mind, don't open my spoiler) (view spoiler)[ riding the cock! (hide spoiler)] & I loved Miss Morris & the story resolution for her.

LOL, that was very funny Carol, as so much of the book was. I timed it wrong by finishing way too early so I'm going to re-read this thread after work and write more, but I just want to say this is my favorite Thirkell to date and I found the whole thing hysterical.

I love that it turned a "murder mystery" trope on it's head by having an unpleasant old rich person just begging family members to fight over who gets to be her heir and none of them cooperate!

Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ wrote: "Finished! At the start of the book, I was wondering if I had reached the end of my Thirkell tolerance, but I just loved the fête! My low mind had me howling at the (if you don't have a low mind, do..."

No, you are not the only low-minded one, I smirked like a 13-year-old every time I read that!😉

Jackie wrote: "LOL, that was very funny Carol, as so much of the book was. I timed it wrong by finishing way too early so I'm going to re-read this thread after work and write more, but I just want to say this is..."

Lol, good point about the murder mystery trope, Jackie, you’re right! No hidden wills here, Aunt Sissie is TRYING to cause trouble among the potential heirs, to no avail…she’s lucky they didn’t want her nasty house, and weren’t struggling financially, they might have smothered her with her own pillow, and none the wiser!

I’m so glad to be rereading this delightful series with the group! Yes, over the course of a looong series, some of the books were definitely better than others, but I’m usually left with a smile and a bubbly, happy feeling inside, not to be sneered at in this unsettling world! 😉

I thought Aunt Sissie was a particularly well-drawn character. She could have been played entirely for laughs at her expense, but Thirkell also made her poignant and worthy of respect, for all her challenging behaviors. That kind of emotional generosity is Thirkell at her best.

Jackie wrote: "LOL, that was very funny Carol, as so much of the book was. I timed it wrong by finishing way too early so I'm going to re-read this thread after work and write more, but I just want to say this is..."

I missed that trope - & that is very true!

I always feel a little bit irritated when characters (to my 21st century eyes, anyway) treat an inheritance as a white elephant - but Mary Stewart does it in at least one book. Maybe death duties & taxation did make these properties more trouble than they were worth!

Abigail wrote: "I thought Aunt Sissie was a particularly well-drawn character. She could have been played entirely for laughs at her expense, but Thirkell also made her poignant and worthy of respect, for all her ..."

Excellent point!

Abigail wrote: "I thought Aunt Sissie was a particularly well-drawn character. She could have been played entirely for laughs at her expense, but Thirkell also made her poignant and worthy of respect, for all her ..."

yes, well put.

Barb in Maryland wrote

I'm finding that I can tolerate these characters for 50 pages at a time. If I stick with them too long, they all begin to annoy me

I can see why. I feel like Thirkell brilliantly makes a lot of them just annoying enough to feel real and yet be humorous. but she is really skating close to the line of too annoying. brilliant, really.

I'm struck by how competent vague Mrs. Brandon's children are. I expect morbid young Delia will eventually become a very good nurse (or doctor).

With World War II about to begin, Delia’s skills will certainly come in handy!

Abigail wrote: "With World War II about to begin, Delia’s skills will certainly come in handy!"

Somewhat off topic, I often read novels with the onset of one of the world wars in the back of my mind…if I read a book set in 1910 I can’t help feeling sorry for the young men and wondering how they will fare in a few short years when the war begins in 1914, etc. I suppose it’s a measure of the author’s skill to make me care about characters who don’t even exist. Does anyone else do this?

Elinor wrote: "Abigail wrote: "With World War II about to begin, Delia’s skills will certainly come in handy!"

Somewhat off topic, I often read novels with the onset of one of the world wars in the back of my mi..."

Yes! I definitely do, especially in this series, as I have read ahead and know the war impacts everyone - the only problem is, I can’t remember who gets wounded, or ends up with PTSD, or gets married on leave, or has what other characters will call “a good war” in later books - I personally would think any war I survive is a good war, but I think they see it differently in Barsetshire, stiff upper lips and all!

That’s why I’m really enjoying these rereads, reading them closer together this time compared to my first go makes the enormity of the war, and all that was lost, and the negative attitudes about the government/societal changes to come much more relatable.

Elinor, yes, for sure! As I’m reading there’s always a poignancy to the characters, especially the young men. On the other hand, I read a lot of British novels written in the 1940s and am astonished at how many pretend the war doesn’t exist or didn’t happen. I guess authors felt people wanted escapism, a little slice of “normal,” but I admire Thirkell for taking it head-on while still maintaining (to a degree) her lighthearted style.

Abigail wrote: "Elinor, yes, for sure! As I’m reading there’s always a poignancy to the characters, especially the young men. On the other hand, I read a lot of British novels written in the 1940s and am astonishe..."

Amen, sister! You’ve put your finger on it - she’s dismissed as lightweight, but throughout her books I’ve read some very honest and poignant passages on family, love and loss. And yet, she still serves up a wry, humorous observation in the next paragraph! I appreciate her style very much.

I think I need to read more by her.

How does everyone feel about the animal cruelty that is so casually introduced?

It’s always painful for me but I understand that until very recently, rural people especially thought of animals as things to be used and believed humans to be inherently superior, so I try to skim over it and not hold it against the author too much.

Abigail wrote: "It’s always painful for me but I understand that until very recently, rural people especially thought of animals as things to be used and believed humans to be inherently superior, so I try to skim..."

It still surprises me each time I read it, because the English I know are great animal lovers & animals (especially dogs) seem to have a lot more freedom than they do over here. Although when we moved to our little town, people were generally tolerant of wandering dogs.

it makes me uncomfortable, but my minds sort of blips over it, like it does with some things I find in Georgette Heyer. For example I recently re-read Friday's Child, and loved it, but (view spoiler)[ slapping your wife?! (hide spoiler)]

I just hope people know better now and try not to think about it. You aren't wrong to bring it up, though, Carol.

I’m with you, Jackie, I kind of blip over it and hope for better…