Play Book Tag discussion

In 2016, we re-compiled our very own top 100 Fiction list. Since then, we have new members, and of course, have collectively read slews more books!

I would like to update our list to keep it current.

We will use a multi-step process. First, we will determine which books should potentially be removed from the list to make way for new ones. Any book that receives 6 or more votes for removal will be considered for elimination from the list.

Then, members will be given an opportunity to nominate one new book to add to the list. These nominees plus those being considered for elimination will be voted upon to create our new 2023 PBT 100 Fiction list.

Any books eliminated during this process will be demarcated on our Shelf so they are not lost, but they will no longer be considered part of the current PBT Top 100.

To get us started, use the following link to indicate up to TEN books that you would like to see removed from the current list in order to make way for new books.

https://forms.gle/whSpvyAnZMqRjj6A6

Please do not select more than 10 because if you do, I will have to delete your survey, contact you, and have you redo it. You may select LESS than 10 if you desire.

Please complete this initial step by July 20, 2023

Administrators are eligible to participate in this process.

Thanks for doing this Anita. I anticipate some terrific discussions as the process goes on!

Cool! This is a great time to do this since we've been looking at the list for the 15 candles. Though a few still look unfamiliar to me.*

I presume we aren't just starting from scratch, because we would be too biased toward books we read recently?

May I be the first to ask.... How can I possibly pick just one favorite? (Why don't you ask me which of my kids is my favorite too?)


*The Investigation by Jung-Myung Lee - this is on the ballot, but I can't find it on the author's page on goodreads. Is there an alternate title (or a typo somewhere)?

I think this will be fun! I do have a few questions, looking over the books on the list.

What is the criteria we're using? Are these books ones that we think constitute "good literature" and ones that we can recommend that others read? For example, I read "Little Women" as a kid. I loved it then, but now as an adult many years later, find it preachy and saccharine.

At the same time, I might love a book that is not well known and has limited appeal to other people.

I thought about that too Holly, I already did mine and the criteria I used was "Did I think this book was really that good"-in other words I checked the books I personally did not like.

NancyJ wrote: "Cool! This is a great time to do this since we've been looking at the list for the 15 candles. Though a few still look unfamiliar to me.*

I presume we aren't just starting from scratch, because we..."

I read it in 2014 and it is one of my favorite books. I'm always surprised that it made it to our list, because it has always been a bit hard to find:

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...

I'm so pleased to see this! I tend to be a bit of an outlier when lists like the year's top 10 or even the decade's top 10 are drawn up because I read very little recently published, needing books to age a few years in my TBR Towers before reading them. But I definitely have some to suggest. Now I'll give the list a closer eye --- I've certainly been studying it a lot recently because I have yet to blow out that candle.

NancyJ wrote: ".The Investigation by Jung-Myung Lee - this is on the ballot, but I can't find it on the author's page on goodreads. Is there an alternate title (or a typo somewhere)?.."

All these titles can be found on our bookshelf under the tag:

https://www.goodreads.com/group/books...

So if anyone is having trouble identifying a title, this is the place to look!

Jgrace wrote: "Thanks for doing this Anita. I anticipate some terrific discussions as the process goes on!"

You are so welcome! I think it is overdue. Going forward, I'd like to update every 5th year on the birthdays so we keep things current.

Holly R W wrote: "I think this will be fun! I do have a few questions, looking over the books on the list.

What is the criteria we're using? Are these books ones that we think constitute "good literature" and ones ..."

I think the criteria for your recommendation is 1) you absolutely love it and 2) it has enough recognition that it could possibly win against books currently on the list.

Essentially, we are putting new books up against the least favorite books on the existing list.

But, if you look at the current list, there's a mix of genres, classics, newer books, etc., and I think that's part of the fun - - so don't feel constrained to "literary fiction" or "classics" in any way.

Joanne wrote: "I thought about that too Holly, I already did mine and the criteria I used was "Did I think this book was really that good"-in other words I checked the books I personally did not like."

Yes! I think this is the way to go . . .

Theresa wrote: "I'm so pleased to see this! I tend to be a bit of an outlier when lists like the year's top 10 or even the decade's top 10 are drawn up because I read very little recently published, needing books ..."

Also, just to reassure everyone - - all books on the current top 100 will still count for the candle, and when the new list comes, you are welcome to select from that one if you still haven't tackled that candle yet.

Oh, this is exciting!! Happy to be a part of it this time around :)

Anita wrote: "Jgrace wrote: "Thanks for doing this Anita. I anticipate some terrific discussions as the process goes on!"

You are so welcome! I think it is overdue. Going forward, I'd like to update every 5th y..."

I love this idea! I mean the NF list for sure also needs updating - and I'm not even a heavy reader of NF but am surprised to not see some books on it like Behind the Beautiful Forevers: Life, Death, and Hope in a Mumbai Undercity.

Theresa wrote: "Anita wrote: "Jgrace wrote: "Thanks for doing this Anita. I anticipate some terrific discussions as the process goes on!"

You are so welcome! I think it is overdue. Going forward, I'd like to upda..."

I actually think the non-fiction list probably needs updating a lot more than the fiction one does, but I figured I'd do one at a time (but both this year) for my sanity!

Anita wrote: "Theresa wrote: "Anita wrote: "Jgrace wrote: "Thanks for doing this Anita. I anticipate some terrific discussions as the process goes on!"

You are so welcome! I think it is overdue. Going forward, ..."

You mean you STILL are hanging on to your sanity???? Impressive!

Yes, it does and yes it shouldn't be done at same time. Maybe later in the summer when a few of us have managed to finish some of the NF we are currently reading.

Anita wrote: "NancyJ wrote: ".The Investigation by Jung-Myung Lee - this is on the ballot, but I can't find it on the author's page on goodreads. Is there an alternate title (or a typo somewhere)?.."

All these ..."

Thanks Anita this is awesome. Every time I look at the list I spot something new. Thanks for mentioning we don’t need to limit ourselves to lit fic or classics.

Holly R W wrote: "I think this will be fun! I do have a few questions, looking over the books on the list.

What is the criteria we're using? Are these books ones that we think constitute "good literature" and ones ..."

Holly, I had the same thing happen with Little Women that you did. It hurt too because I loved all her books so much as a kid. I’m afraid to reread some old favorites because the memories are so dear.

NancyJ wrote: "Holly R W wrote: "I think this will be fun! I do have a few questions, looking over the books on the list.

What is the criteria we're using? Are these books ones that we think constitute "good lit..."

It is always a bit nerve-wracking to go back and reread truly beloved books from our youth. You want that pleasure and comfort but will adult mind see too much and ruin it? I tend to be very careful - and Little Women is one I don't think I will reread. I never really liked Alcott's other books, and recently rereading her early gothics had me disliking them so much I regretted rereading what I had remembered fondly with a touch of humor.

But rereading The Sherwood Ring by Elizabeth Marie Pope was every bit as wonderful and more as when I read it in my youth.

This is very hard, because of the books on the list that I have read, I adore most of them. And how can I suggest removing a book that I have not read?

Voted.

Anita, I know you said this was a two step process but the poll is making us nominate a book now. I voted but feel free to ignore the nominee part if it's not supposed to be there.

Booknblues wrote: "NancyJ wrote: "Cool! This is a great time to do this since we've been looking at the list for the 15 candles. Though a few still look unfamiliar to me.*
I presume we aren't just starting from scra..."

Thanks BnB. It’s weird that it isn’t in the author’s page. Here’s something even stranger. My library has this listing:
The investigation : a novel
Author: Yi, Chŏng-myŏng (Novelist)

The author is wrong (yet sounds similar), but the book cover looks right, with the author printed as J.M. Lee. I wonder if one name is Korean, and the other Chinese (or a different dialect). I’m reminded of a Robert Redford film in which he reads fairly obscure books (for the CIA) with real-like secret plots.

I voted. I looked at my own ratings to pick my "deletes".

Some of these books were just so-so for me - not naming any titles since I'm almost certain to land on someone's favorite book. 🤣

And I agree with being nervous about re-reads! I re-read The Stand during the pandemic. Since it's a book about a massive pandemic, it was on my mind.

It had been the first book I stayed up all night to read. I was 13 when it came out - probably far too young to read it - and I was too afraid to turn out the light and go to sleep.

Happy to report I still loved it and also was able to turn out the lights without fear.

NancyJ wrote: "Holly R W wrote: "I think this will be fun! I do have a few questions, looking over the books on the list.

What is the criteria we're using? Are these books ones that we think constitute "good lit..."

Ditto on Little Women, I liked it as an early primary school kid (but am ESL and missed some of the meaning) but have reread it as an adult twice trying to find what I liked and just ended up fully hating it nearly as much as "Baba Yaga Laid an Egg".

I've only picked 4 for removal since there are only 4 that I have read which I had a strong negative reaction to....some others just aren't my thing but there isn't anything bad about them and others love them. Others I haven't read so it is not my place to judge.

My suggestion is a discovery from last year which I only read because it was suggested on PBT. It really stuck with me and definitely made me ugly cry not leak gently. Not my usual type of book, but that makes it even better since Ruta Sepetys managed to get me to love a book which wouldn't usually be my type. Can't remember who it was who suggested Salt to the Sea but you had me and 2 adult male colleagues crying (in a good way because we cared about the characters). Also love The Green Mile (another ugly cry book) but King already has one on the list.

Oooo, this is exciting!! Thank goodness we have some time to think about it and vote because I have no idea where to start! Lol

Rachel N. wrote: "Anita, I know you said this was a two step process but the poll is making us nominate a book now. I voted but feel free to ignore the nominee part if it's not supposed to be there."

I'm sorry if I wasn't very clear. The second part of the process will be a vote where the titles with the most votes for removal will go up against the nominated titles to see which books will fill the open slots that result from the first stage of the process (the stage going on now).

This is such an interesting task, I've been thinking about it all morning!

So it seems to me like there are three ways to categorize books for this type of list.

1. All-time classics. Most of these I read for school, but I've always felt like if I loved them then (when they were basically forced on me during summer vacations :), they deserve their place on these kinds of lists. Such as The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn and To Kill a Mockingbird -- and even Animal Farm and Heart of Darkness, which I can't say I loved, but I can respect them even from memories from an eighth-grade perspective.

In this category, my standout that's missing from the list is All Quiet on the Western Front. I was 14, had zero interest in reading a war book, and couldn't put it down. Single-handedly the reason I have consumed epic amounts of WWI and WWII fiction ever since.

2. Modern classics. I haven't read many from the list, but the one I've been kind of surprised to see missing from this group's is The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time. It's been such a long time since I read it, though, so maybe there's a reason it's not included? After reading the general GR reviews, I certainly feel like I'd want to do a re-read before nominating, which I don't see happening this month...

3. The lighter, fun stuff/newer stuff that it's hard to tell how you'll feel about in 5, 10, 15 years. Like I'd love to see a Georgette Heyer or some newer scifi on here. But where to begin???

How do I choose between Frederica and All Quiet on the Western Front!

Very excited about this process! I’ve been slowly but surely working on the PBT 100 lists since they first came out. I’m only about half way on both, but it was exciting to look back and tabulate just how many five star reads I found! Excited to find more!! :)

In case anyone is curious, here are the 20 books that got knocked off permanently the last time we did this:

https://www.goodreads.com/group/books...

My two missing titles are Flowers for Algernon and East of Eden . . .I loved both of these books so much, but think I'm going to nominate the former.

Anita wrote: "My two missing titles are Flowers for Algernon and East of Eden . . .I loved both of these books so much, but think I'm going to nominate the former."

Flowers for Algernon is the other one missing from my school days as well. I saw it mentioned in The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time reviews, though, so I wasn't sure if that's what sparked the memory for me

Anita wrote: "In case anyone is curious, here are the 20 books that got knocked off permanently the last time we did this:"

Yes, thank you!

Shelly wrote: "This is very hard, because of the books on the list that I have read, I adore most of them. And how can I suggest removing a book that I have not read?"

Agreed, which is why I may be reading a completely different book for this challenge candle than I was originally thinking... I've gone through and identified six for potential deleting, but I've only read four of those. I have no interest in reading one of them, and I'm going back and forth on whether to let myself vote against it anyway since it's an author I've read before. The other I'm going to try to read before the voting deadline and won't vote against it otherwise.


Anita wrote: "Going forward, I'd like to update every 5th year on the birthdays so we keep things current."

I have motivation to read a bunch of these in the next five years now :) That will be a fun list to make!

Anita wrote: "Theresa wrote: "I'm so pleased to see this! I tend to be a bit of an outlier when lists like the year's top 10 or even the decade's top 10 are drawn up because I read very little recently published..."

Thanks for that reassurance because I had that question.

Anita wrote: "In case anyone is curious, here are the 20 books that got knocked off permanently the last time we did this:

https://www.goodreads.com/group/books......"

There are so many books on this former list that I would keep on .... 🤣

Pam wrote: "This is such an interesting task, I've been thinking about it all morning!

So it seems to me like there are three ways to categorize books for this type of list.

1. All-time classics. Most of the..."

Pam - this is such a great approach ...

And I would so vote for Frederica

I struggled with whether or not to re-nominate one of the books that were removed in 2016 - specifically Wonder comes to mind, but a handful of them were five star reads for me. In the end I chose to nominate something new *shrug*

Anita wrote: "I'm sorry if I wasn't very clear. The second part of the process will be a vote where the titles with the most votes for removal will go up against the nominated titles to see which books will fill the open slots that result from the first stage of the process (the stage going on now)...."

So we need to think about what we nominate before we just jump in to vote on what to remove. Ok,

And we can only nominate one? Just want to make sure before I take time to look at the survey. Thanks!

Wow - a lot of this list is seriously outdated. There is like five books I was sure to be looking for and didn't see any of them. A lot of old classics there, but not a real current list. I hope we get some good clearing and adding.

Riffing off Pam's wonderful post, I think the philosophy behind this list comes into play. Is this the Top Fiction 100 read in last few years, read over our individual lifetimes, read over the 15 years PBT existed? I think based on this discussion, it is a combo. That also seems to reflect the varied reading habits and interests of the membership.

The question is how do we assure that balance is reflected in the final list? Some of us need to be brave and nominate a Frederica or The Invisible Life of Addie LaRue.

Theresa, I am like everyone else made a list of books to possibly nominate, and the invisible life of Addie LaRue was on it. In the end, I picked a different one to nominate. But it’s another one that you would heartily agree and vote for.

I found it easy to pick 8+ I could delete, but I haven't even attempted to pick one to add yet. I might try to avoid a book that seems obvious (and therefore will be suggested by others) but what if everyone thought the same thing and the book didn't get suggested at all? Something like this happened last year with the author challenge. A few expected favorites didn't get in - I think Steinbeck was one of them. We each nominated two authors, and I instantly regretted one of my choices. It was a personal favorite, but she didn't have a chance to win. If we were each able to suggest more options, those that get more than one nomination could get preference.

So learning from that experience, I want to start with a list of personal favorites that I really care about. (I give a lot of 4.5+ ratings, so I have a lot of options.) My final book should be one that has also been read by many people (25K total ratings?), and one that has been discussed and reviewed by members of this group. It should also have strong avg ratings, OR other indications of admiration or respect.

I might start with books published between 2013 and 2022, since those published earlier have already had at least one chance to be considered, and brand new books haven't been read by enough of us yet.

Yes, I'm probably overthinking this.

Anita wrote: "In case anyone is curious, here are the 20 books that got knocked off permanently the last time we did this:

https://www.goodreads.com/group/books......"

I really liked some of those in the past, but they haven't necessarily stood the test of time. I'm surprised by the number of Kingsolver books deleted, given how well she did in our author challenge. But maybe they were competing with each other? I know that when I saw authors with more than 1 book on the list, I gave more serious consideration to deleting one of their books. If others felt the same way, but picked the other book, they might both be at risk.

Pam wrote: "Shelly wrote: "This is very hard, because of the books on the list that I have read, I adore most of them. And how can I suggest removing a book that I have not read?"

Agreed, which is why I may b..."

I have the same concern! I've read about half the list so far, and there are only 5 that I didn't really like. There are two that I liked at the time, but wouldn't recommend to others. There are some that I have no interest in reading, but that's not necessarily a good enough reason to vote to eliminate them. I might not want to re-read Little Women, but I would hate to see it go.

I read 5-6 books from the list this year, and I still want to read these:
Grapes of Wrath (I'm not sure if I read it before, or only saw the film.)
Middlesex
I, Robot by Isaac Asimov
If on a Winter's Night a Traveler by Italo Calvino
A Constellation of Vital Phenomena
The God of Small Things
Half of a Yellow Sun
Fifth Season

Anita wrote: "In case anyone is curious, here are the 20 books that got knocked off permanently the last time we did this:

https://www.goodreads.com/group/books......"

Anita, was Mrs Dalloway ever on the list? I see another book by Virginia Woolf that isn't as popular.

I'm enjoying the discussion. The list continues to perplex me. I find many of the featured books to be ones I have no interest in either reading or revisiting.

And, I've read so many excellent books, how would I pick a newer book that can hold up to the test of time - or popularity? (a question that I'm asking myself)

@Nancy - I was very surprised at all the Kingsolvers that were eliminated last round! In fact, most of the books listed as eliminated are ones I would have voted to keep!

I do think there should be a limit to one book per author. I know I really resent seeing an author listed more than once on any top fiction or non-fiction list. Given how many fabulous books there are - it seems enough to have one per author only. In part these lists serve not to just introduce you to a wonderful book but hopefully introduce to an author.

Orwell has both Animal Farm and 1984 on the current list - pick one, not have both (I'd opt for 1984). Even my beloved Kingsolver - pick one for the list not two or more.

NancyJ wrote: "Anita, was Mrs Dalloway ever on the list? I see another book by Virginia Woolf that isn't as popular...."

I don't think so! The original list was compiled by nominations only (sort of the way we do the Top 10 lists annually), and then going forward we have used the process we are using now to revise the list.

I think this method of revision keeps the list from becoming too overly current . . .the true classics or classics in the making tend to stick.

I have voted but only to remove 6 titles. So hard for me because I'm often not as thrilled with "classics" as others (like Far From the Madding Crowd); but some I have loved (ex. Anne of Green Gables).

Because of my usual disillusionment with classics or those "literary" rated newer books, I tend not to read them so I didn't have many I felt I could vote to remove. I will, obviously, not vote to remove something I didn't read. But, as I said, I did find 6 that others may not agree with. Nevertheless, I voted!

Theresa wrote: "@Nancy - I was very surprised at all the Kingsolvers that were eliminated last round! In fact, most of the books listed as eliminated are ones I would have voted to keep!

I do think there should b..."

Agreed. I haven't read Animal Farm yet, and I really disliked 1984 the last time I read it (though the first read was exciting). So I'm very tempted to put 1984 on the Delete list, even though it seems like a sacred cow.

The 2 Louis DeBernieres books sound like books I would like, but they might be at risk because there are 2 of them, and they aren't as well known as some of the others. Some people might be swayed if his biggest fans expressed a preference of one over the other.