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How AI Can Revolutionize Novel Writing
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This is a brave stance, considering where the WGA currently stands on the issue, and considering the fact that a class action lawsuit has been brought on by a pair of prominent horror writers against Open AI/ChatGPT regarding copyright infringement. Basically, Open AI trained on models of existing work--tons of it--without author consent, in order to be able to generate its so called original material.While I respect your opinion, I disagree with it. Grammarly is a fine tool for those who use it, sure (I personally found it pretty annoying). We already utilize grammar and spell checkers, and that's not really categorical to actual storytelling or world building. On a similar note, outlining software isn't really the crux of the AI controversy either.
Writing a novel should be hard. It should be a challenge. Giving AI a few prompts to generate your first draft lacks effort. Who wants to read a story that steals from established work to spit out something that is literally derivative? Where is the challenge in that from a writing perspective?
And An AI critic? No, thank you. I would prefer beta readers and writing groups--real people with real emotions, not advice based on algorithms.
Using an AI program to help you 'generate' a novel is for me synonymous with intellectual laziness. If you don't have enough imagination to think of ideas for a book by yourself, then maybe you shouldn't write books and you certainly don't deserve the title of 'writer'. I want to read novels which reflect human imagination and creativity, not AI algorythms which pick and pluck from all over the place to 'create' a book. You just need to use a spell or grammar checker program to see that it often erroneously marks a sentence or group of words as 'incorrect' simply because it was unable to understand the subtleness in the meaning of that sentence or words. It seems that we are now heading into a new age of mediocrity and plagiarism.
Hey ho... Any writer who makes extensive use of AI assistance is a turkey voting for Christmas. The more you use it the more you rely on it and more importantly, the more the AI learns. The more it learns.... Well, need I say more?
Spell checkers and grammar assistants are fine, so long as you don't blindly follow them, since they are unable to understand incorrect grammar as a writing choice, such as in dialogue or a first person voice. And indeed, as Michel pointed out, they don't do subtlety.
If you want to be replaced by an AI crowd pleasing hit machine cloning other peoples best sellers, then go for it...☺
Don't make extensive use of AI, you know it makes sense...
Epistle to the Persnickities - Per. - 8-6-75:30-9 - A.I.? My Asshttps://www.jjcunis.com/post/the-book...
J.J. wrote: "Epistle to the Persnickities - Per. - 8-6-75:30-9 - A.I.? My Asshttps://www.jjcunis.com/post/the-book..."
Nice
JJ That was fun ☺Like me, you don't seem afraid of the machines rising and deliberately trying to kill us like in terminator. Yeah, I'm more worried about something you sort of touched on in your blog. Accidentally killing us off due to one or more misunderstandings.
More and more these days AI or semi AI controls so much of what happens in our daily lives. Want to talk to customer service? Got a complaint? You will get a chat bot or an endless ream of FAQs... What you want to know/do/complain about is never covered and you just endlessly loop round and around back to the same web page offering happy smiling solutions to problems you don't have and none to the problems you do.
Talk to a human who could fix your problem in under five minutes... Not a chance.
So, extrapolating from there, once AI is really running everything, we could all die from a series of happy smiling 'solutions.' ☺☺
Perhaps I should write it...
Only a fool would listen to Peter.Writing books is an art that needs to be learned, understood, and embraced by the author. what makes a book unique is not only the inspirations of the author, but parts of the author themselves. Likewise, if you, the author, don't learn the craft, you will NEVER be able to discern good writing from absolute crap.
Second, if you need an AI to come up with ideas for you, then you ain't a writer. I don't need a computer to tell me what to write. I've got 10 ideas already in my head, without the need for some mindless computer program to create them for me.
Third, an AI does not "understand" stories. It collates information from a sailable sources (basically plagiarizing) to generate output based in the conditions set forth in a prompt. It does little to distinguish the style of one author to that of another outside of some superficial understanding.
And yes, I've seen AI whole cloth plagiarize. Meaning that you can get sued, because the book is under your name.
I've also seen the output of AI generated stories - they're crap. Superficial. Boring. Lacking in style and flavor, and utterly forgettable.
The thing is: producing a book is easy. Getting people to BUY that book is the hard part. If you end up relying on a machine to do your work for you, you'll end up being like every other sap out there flooding the market with the same mindless, superficial crap.
the people who put in the work will be the people who rise to the top.
Writing ain't like chess. You can train a computer to master chess fairly easily as there are a set number of rules. Writing is mostly subjective and the "rules" are way more arbitrary.
Peter ain't doing you any favors with his advice. My advice is that you learn how to do things via the old school method. Write. Learn. Try. Fail. Persist. All of your heroes did it. So can you.
What your heroes DIDN'T need was a machine doing the work for them.
All I'll say is read The Great Automatic Grammatizator by Roald Dahl. He saw this coming decades ago...
Diane wrote: "Open AI trained on models of existing work--tons of it--without author consent..."I assume then that you obtained the consent of every single author whose books you read?
LLMs have trained the same way human writers do - by reading lots of books. If its fair use for a human to do it, its fair use for LLMs.
I am watching the development with the law suit you mentioned. Personally I don't think they have a leg to stand on and if the court rules there is no fair use for LLMs, then every single human author who reads other authors, is also violating copyright. I will wait with interest to see all writers disclose all the books they have ever read and to suitably compensate those authors.
Mellie wrote: "Diane wrote: "Open AI trained on models of existing work--tons of it--without author consent..."I assume then that you obtained the consent of every single author whose books you read?
LLMs have..."
I pay for the books I read. I read the books I've paid for for my own enjoyment.
ChatGPT is using the books they obtain for the purpose of training their AI, ultimately, for profit. They are using the direct works of artists, photographers and authors for the purpose of selling you a product.
If I personally read a book, it’s not for the direct purpose of selling anyone a product, and if I outright used material from that book and claimed it was mine then yes, a lawsuit would be legitimate.
AI is not a person who bought a book. AI is a tool that utilizes the work of others for the profit of its creators. That sounds like an infringement to me.
Steph wrote: "All I'll say is read The Great Automatic Grammatizator by Roald Dahl. He saw this coming decades ago..."I will have to check that out!
Herman wrote: "Only a fool would listen to Peter.Writing books is an art that needs to be learned, understood, and embraced by the author. what makes a book unique is not only the inspirations of the author, bu..."
Exactly!
Diane wrote: "If I personally read a book, it’s not for the direct purpose of selling anyone a product..."So you don't publish books? Or are you saying that not a single book you have read, formed the basis of your training as a writer? LLMs were trained on publicly available material that is subject to the fair use doctrine.
AI tools (such as ChatGPT, Claude, SudoWrite) generate prose that is inspired by the books they were trained on. They don't dulicate or plagiairse text. The only so-called "examples" I have seen of duplicate text are where people specifically asked an AI tool to copy an author. Like the law suit you mentioned, the two authors had to give detailed prompts to get back summaries of their books - which seems to form the basis of their lawsuit. I cannot see anywhere that they claim other published books have used AI generated text that plagiarises their titles.
AI tools are just that - tools. You can use them ethically or with bad faith, but that's up to the human who uses the tool.
As to comments that AI books are soulless, or that no reader will touch them... that is not the case. There are many authors using AI tools, publishing books, and entertaining their readers. Readers don't care about the process or tools used, so long as the story meets their needs.
"LLMs were trained on publicly available material that is subject to the fair use doctrine."Fair use is defined by a few things, but…
1) Only a portion of the material in question is used.
2) The user of said material is not using it for their own commercial benefit.
3) the resulting new material is predominantly original with the author.
The jury isn’t out yet on the extent of duplicate or plagiarized text, but the examples exist, as you have mentioned.
And to answer your more personal question, yes, I publish books. Yes, I have read books that have probably formed the basis of my training as a writer. My favorite is probably Adventures in the Screen Trade, by William Goldman.
But I don’t read books with the intent of writing in the voice of a particular author. I want my books and stories to come from within myself. My voice. AI still feels like a cheat to me.
AI: Destroyer of Art. It is already being monetized to remove the inconvenient expense of actual authors (and visual artists, too). Capitalism at its best.
Toney wrote: "AI: Destroyer of Art. It is already being monetized to remove the inconvenient expense of actual authors (and visual artists, too). Capitalism at its best."
Or Capitalism at its worst.
Or Capitalism at its worst.
Hi,I haven't read anything AI generated - as far as I know - but I have started using AI generated art for my covers. And the one thing I have seen in it is that AI often doesn't seem to notice things that I immediately pick up. So I often get people with too many fingers or limbs and even though the rest of the image may be glorious I can't use it.
My thought is that AI writing is likely to be the same. An AI may be able to write a cloned novel - but if it doesn't understand what it's read or had programmed into it, the final product is going to be flawed. It won't know what's good or bad. What will appeal and what won't. Because it doesn't know why it appealed to readers in the first place. And how the hell is any AI going to understand a joke?!
I don't think we're out of a job yet.
Cheers, Greg.
the guys making these platforms ain't exactly capitalists. in fact, one of them is an admitted communist.So...
The prose being generated by AI is original. I've yet to see an examaple of plagirarism where it duplicated another author's work without very detailed prompting and effort (such as in the court case recently filed). Some tools still won't do it even then. Claude for example, states that it cannot copy and paste existing text and everything is original. Diane wrote: "I don’t read books with the intent of writing in the voice of a particular author."
Reading is how writers learn to write. The #1 piece of writing advice is read the bestsellers, deconstruct them, study their plot, pacing, voice. heck there are even courses and books you can buy, that will show you have to pull apart bestsellers so you can incorporate those elements into your books and make sure you meet reader expectations.
With most AI tools, you can give it a sample of your writing and it will generate prose in your voice. SudoWrite calls it "match my style" and its part of StoryEngine. Or you can train ChatGPT in a similar way.
Diane wrote: "AI still feels like a cheat to me."
Do you feel the same about a laptop vs a pen and paper? Or dictation? Or ProWritingAid? AI is just another tool that writers have avaiable to them. There are many disabled or nerodivergent people who are able to write and share their stories now. There are some writers who want to gatekeep who can write, and exclude segments of society who have not had a voice until now. Or they want to dictate what tools others can use.
AI is here. Those who are curious about what it can do, are using it as part of their writing process.
Yes, taking someone's jacked IP, creating a story with it and selling it is "just like using a laptop.". LOL.Just about everything in that laptop is either under patent, license, or copyright protection. And the laptop isn't writing the words for you.
Dictation? Please. Idiotic comparison.
And I HAVE seen AI generated art that still included the watermarks. The same engine and code driving that is also driving the stuff making stories.
Herman wrote: "Yes, taking someone's jacked IP, creating a story with it and selling it is "just like using a laptop.". LOL.Just about everything in that laptop is either under patent, license, or copyright pro..."
Thank you!
“Reading is how writers learn to write. The #1 piece of writing advice is read the bestsellers, deconstruct them, study their plot, pacing, voice. heck there are even courses and books you can buy, that will show you have to pull apart bestsellers so you can incorporate those elements into your books and make sure you meet reader expectations.” — From MettieI come from a screenwriting background, originally. And yes, I have found my share of "how to" books over the years. Those books break down scripts in a very generic way. They address structure, and extremely basic structure. Address your character's weakness, find your inciting incident, challenge your character's moral code, etc, etc. Save the Cat, for example, suggests that you present six things that need fixing, or to literally state your story's theme. I mean, you can incorporate these suggestions or not. Not everyone is enamored by Save The Cat.
What it doesn’t do is input what those “six things that need fixing" will be. It doesn’t decide what your theme is for you based on IP stored in its database. The books break down scripts to show a similar structure across a multitude of genres. But it’s addressing a basic, common framework. It’s deconstructing a framework. It's not deconstructing, say, Back to the Future so that you can rewrite a new version of Back to the Future. It deconstructing it to show that, hey, THIS MOVIE has a significant similarity to, say Saw. How can that be? Because they’re talking about generic structure, not specifics in story.
AI has been promoted as more than just a generic structure tool. It has trained on the works of others in order for you to throw together a few prompt words, then let it do the work for you. There is nothing creative in that. I personally would get no satisfaction from that. If I want to write a time travel story, I don’t want it to be the next Back to the Future or the next Looper or the next Twelve Monkeys. I would want it to be notable for its differences, not its similarities.
You got my name wrong. There are AI browser plugins that will stop such embarrassing errors. Unless it is deliberate?Diane wrote: "…you to throw together a few prompt words, then let it do the work for you."
That’s not how AI tools work. Have you spent any time playing with ChatGPT, Poe, Claude, or SudoWrite? Writers are finding it is making their prose better and allowing them to go deeper with world building, character development, and themes.
Then there are the many uses for AI in writing blurbs, email subject lines, and marketing copy for ads - if you want to improve book sales.
It is clear any discussion with you is futile as you have an opinion based on faulty and factually incorrect information. For those interested in learning, there are many videos on YouTube showing how writers are engaging with some of these tools.
Herman wrote: "Yes, taking someone's jacked IP, creating a story with it and selling it is "just like using a laptop.". LOL."More factually incorrect statements from those who don’t understand these tools. AI generated prose is not someone else’s IP. It is original prose based on user prompts. Tools like Claude literally can’t plagiarise, unlike human writers who have no such qualms.
“Watermakrs” in AI art aren’t actually watermarks. It hallucinates and adds them because it thinks they should be there. Many authors are now using AI art in their covers. Stock image sites sell AI images and some big name cover artists (like Damonza) have make public statements about how they are incorporating AI art into book covers.
I should say thank you though. Looking at the authors in this thread who are so anti AI (based on rumours) has given me a chuckle, Maybe if you learned about these tools, you might be able to improve your books and sell a few copies ;)
Mellie wrote: "You got my name wrong. There are AI browser plugins that will stop such embarrassing errors. Unless it is deliberate?Diane wrote: "…you to throw together a few prompt words, then let it do the wo..."
Apologies, Mellie, for getting your name wrong. I’m not sure why I keep getting singled out for such condemnation, but whatever.
Speaking of Sudowrite, John August is not as convinced of its merits as he originally thought he was. Here’s a snippet of those thoughts…
https://johnaugust.com/2023/my-histor...
Robin wrote: "JJ That was fun ☺Like me, you don't seem afraid of the machines rising and deliberately trying to kill us like in terminator. Yeah, I'm more worried about something you sort of touched on in your..."
Buried in a pile of happy horseshit encased in politically correct, lawyer approved emoji's! (Sponsored of course, for a mere pennies a click!)
Herman wrote: "Only a fool would listen to Peter.Writing books is an art that needs to be learned, understood, and embraced by the author. what makes a book unique is not only the inspirations of the author, bu..."
I think ... Peter's AI. (Shhh! Mum's the word ... or is it?)
Herman wrote: "the guys making these platforms ain't exactly capitalists. in fact, one of them is an admitted communist.So..."
Never met an actual communist. Only oligarchs cloaked in communist spandex suits and lemmings who emulate them and buy their clothing line.
Where do ideas come from? As far as I can tell they come from other people. Some of them we are aware of and others we aren't. If we are aware, then we acknowledge it. I believe the AI issue is similar to introducing the use of calculators to schools. One worry was that kids wouldn't memorize the multiplication tables. Guess what? People still do math, and some additional ones can do arithmetic that were having trouble before. The big difference with the AI issue is that we think it is possible an AI will become sentient and think like us. If we are honest about it, we will acknowledge using one. As for using one, if it agrees :-), we will tell of the use and how we used it. We already have ghostwriters. I think the AI issue is a good one because it forces us to think about what the essential nature of being human is.
Robert wrote: "I enjoy creating things. If something else can do it for me where's the fun? Writing stops me going nuts, I slip into another world and shape it. George Martin's been walking into the winds of wint..."Fred; Yup, it's true. The only problem remaining is that there is a person (? We all know what blaming a tool means. :-)) responsible for giving the advice and one responsible for accepting it.
Robert wrote: "No, darling, the robot will do the garden. I am going to watch TV, get fat and snuff it. Marry the robot, dear."Fred; LOL. It depends how attractive it is doesn't it Robert?
Robert wrote: "And would the AI require a co-writer credit with royalty share?"Fred;DK, maybe so.
Greg wrote: "Hi,I haven't read anything AI generated - as far as I know - but I have started using AI generated art for my covers. And the one thing I have seen in it is that AI often doesn't seem to notice t..."
Is there a free AI cover program?
Fred wrote: "Where do ideas come from? As far as I can tell they come from other people. Some of them we are aware of and others we aren't. If we are aware, then we acknowledge it. I believe the AI issue is sim..."
If all ideas came from other people, then little to nothing new would be invented, as we would simply rehash ad infinitum what has already been thought about. I believe in the power of the human mind to invent new things, to come up with completely new ideas. Did Einstein somehow copy someone else's idea when he formulated his famous equation, EMC2 (sorry, don't have the square symbol on my keyboard)? Did Sir Isaac Newton stole someone else's idea when he thought about the concept of gravity? Did Beethoven loot another composer's work to write his symphonies? This fallacy about us only being able to have new ideas by taking from other people is in my opinion an excuse for intellectual laziness. So is this trend in wanting to use AI (and to justify its use) to 'write' books.
If all ideas came from other people, then little to nothing new would be invented, as we would simply rehash ad infinitum what has already been thought about. I believe in the power of the human mind to invent new things, to come up with completely new ideas. Did Einstein somehow copy someone else's idea when he formulated his famous equation, EMC2 (sorry, don't have the square symbol on my keyboard)? Did Sir Isaac Newton stole someone else's idea when he thought about the concept of gravity? Did Beethoven loot another composer's work to write his symphonies? This fallacy about us only being able to have new ideas by taking from other people is in my opinion an excuse for intellectual laziness. So is this trend in wanting to use AI (and to justify its use) to 'write' books.
Michel said; If all ideas came from other people, then little to nothing new would be invented, Fred; I didn't intend to deny creativity or the development of new ideas. But such development doesn't exist in a vacuum. We are influenced by what has been done, said, and written before us to support our thinking and creating. I just don't see why we can't use AI as part of the process. Most scientists I met over the years, for example, didn't steal or loot ideas to use your words. But they acknowledged where their ideas came from and were able to link their own ideas to what had gone on before them.
Robert wrote: "I can see AI being very useful in generating propaganda. I will buy no books from now on."
I hope that you are joking, Robert. Not buying books from now on would be quite drastic. What about the electronic medias? Those are positively full of propaganda, false news and conspiracy theories.
I hope that you are joking, Robert. Not buying books from now on would be quite drastic. What about the electronic medias? Those are positively full of propaganda, false news and conspiracy theories.
While writing my draft of a novel I am still working on, I kept (and also keep) encountering an annoying problem which is most probably caused by the AI-based spellchecker program used by WORDS. Everytime I want to write 'your', the spellchecker keeps changing it to 'you're' and I have to keep going back to correct the spellchecker. This is only one example of an AI application that is hindering rather than helping creative writing. I also encounter frustration when using foreign, unusual names or words, which get 'corrected' wrong because the AI is not subtle enough to understand the context of a sentence or paragraph.
To those who say that AI is the future of writing, I say: get off your dream cloud and make your own brain work, instead of relying on AI to do your job as a writer.
To those who say that AI is the future of writing, I say: get off your dream cloud and make your own brain work, instead of relying on AI to do your job as a writer.
Michel wrote: "While writing my draft of a novel I am still working on, I kept (and also keep) encountering an annoying problem which is most probably caused by the AI-based spellchecker program used by WORDS. Ev..."A priest, a rabbit and a minister walked into a bar.
The bartender asked the rabbit, 'What'll you have?'
The rabbit said, 'I dunno. The only reason I'm here is because of Autocorrect.'
Donnally wrote: "Michel wrote: "While writing my draft of a novel I am still working on, I kept (and also keep) encountering an annoying problem which is most probably caused by the AI-based spellchecker program us..."I love autocorrect. For it I am forever grapefruit.
I've gotten many laughs.
The inventor of autocorrect has sadly died following a shirt ill nest. He will be Sally Mist. His funnel will be held next monkey. Roast in peas.
Robin wrote: "The inventor of autocorrect has sadly died following a shirt ill nest. He will be Sally Mist. His funnel will be held next monkey. Roast in peas."
You guys are hilarious!
You guys are hilarious!
There is no need to think about what AI can do. It is already doing it and proving to everyone that very soon AI will replace almost everything. I can just show details https://ddi-dev.com/blog/programming/... about the artificial intelligence software that I am reading about now. It is simply something incredible. I could not think that AI would develop so quickly. I think in a year AI will replace book authors.
JannetRiddle wrote: "There is no need to think about what AI can do. It is already doing it and proving to everyone that very soon AI will replace almost everything. I think in a year AI will replace book authors."
If you really believe that, then I feel sorry for you.
If you really believe that, then I feel sorry for you.
Goodreads Authors/Readers
Books mentioned in this topic
The Great Automatic Grammatizator (other topics)The Great Automatic Grammatizator (other topics)
Flawless grammar and spelling are paramount in any well-crafted novel. These tools identify common grammar errors.
The initial stages of novel writing often involve brainstorming ideas. AI-powered, helps authors generate and organize their thoughts. These tools ensure the story remains on track. Authors gain a comprehensive overview of their work and guarantee a well-organized narrative.
Starting a novel can be an intimidating task, but AI can provide a boost with its ability to generate first drafts. AI creates text based on character descriptions, plot points, and settings prompts. First draft trials serve as a springboard. They offering fresh ideas with different writing styles.
Constructive criticism is vital for authors seeking to refine their manuscripts. AI comes to the rescue with its ability to act as an AI critic, evaluating existing novels. AI-powered critiquing tools can identify plot holes, character development, and pacing.
As you embark on your journey, keep in mind a few tips:
Determine how you want AI to enhance your writing. Do you need help with grammar and spelling, outlining, or generating a first draft? Establishing your goals will help you select the right AI tool.
Explore the diverse range of AI-powered writing tools available. Experiment with multiple options to find the one that best suits your writing style and requirements.
Don't hesitate to reach out to AI experts or online communities for guidance. Embracing AI-powered writing tools opens up a world of possibilities for authors who strive for excellence in their craft.
With AI as your ally, you have the potential to transform your writing and create exceptional novels. Embrace this technology, experiment, and witness the remarkable impact it can have on your writing journey.