The Sword and Laser discussion

Spoilers & Predictions

I forgot where I heard or read about Martin saying this but at one point he said he loved Tolkein but that LoTR was [childlike.] Good guys, bad guys and black and white. He loved the history and world building and characters but wanted to do something else.

It seems that he looked at war and politics and thought about how different that is from LoTR. He put sex and violence into his story and made it adult. But he did more. In every war, there really is not a good and bad side. If there is a war, can everyone in country A be good and everyone in country B be bad? Doubt it.

My favorite thing he does in his books, is make the reader change what he feels about characters. No country or House is good or bad and neither are the characters. Jamie starts out throwing a child out a window, but a few books later we feel bad for him when he is in the bath missing a hand and lamenting the mocking cries he hears of “Kingslayer.” Jamie talks about the contradiction between his sworn oaths and what was the ‘right thing to do.’ Martin makes almost every character relatable. You like, then hate then pity Theon. The wonderful and cute little girl named Arya does some nasty stuff. In the war of the five kings there is not one good guy and one bad guy. Ned is a little stupid. What’s Stannis? What was Robert? What is the Spider? What is Tyrion?

The only characters who are pure good and evil are Joffrey, Ramsay, Danny and Jon. I would be disappointed if it ends with Jon and Daenerys arm in arm on the throne.

Part of me thinks GRRM may make it that the bad guy wins. I see Arya’s story as a classic revenge story and she obviously has a big role. Maybe he will make her a villain. Authors never make a character story arc go from good to bad. She will probably just a end up a general. Maybe the meat of the story will be real but in the end it will be a plain good triumphs over evil.

PS. The person they say that the TV guys will kill who was not killed in the books is “the bear,” probably.


I am up to the Epilogue in Dance, I cant believe it didn't end with her flying home, I guess it will be a dramatic walk back to her bench.

Ha, and here I thought this thread was literally going to be about 'how' GRRM wrote the books. As in, how did he come up with each individual voice, what kind of research he did, etc.

I don't think it's going to end with Jon and Daenerys arm and arm. I think you'll find out why soon enough.

Tyrion had an axe to his head, Jon was hit by arrows, Arya took an axe to the head. I'm sure Jon is ok. GRRM has done the psych out once too often.