On the Southern Literary Trail discussion

Comments on this board are made with the assumption that readers have finished the book and may include spoilers.

“Hard people makes hard times. I’ve seen the meanness of humans till I don’t know why God ain’t put out the sun and gone away.”

That about wraps it up for me. Enjoyed the read right up to Culla finding the child. Then, frankly my dears, I was disgusted.

It's hard to read any book of McCarthy's without disgust, but his writing and language overcome that. He's not for the soft-hearted. You stopped just in time, because things get worse.

I loved this book, it introduced me to the Southern Gothic genre a few years back and through that I found On The Southern Literary Trail and I haven't looked back. This is also my first post to anything at all on the internet, just so you know!

Wow Mark, we're honored!

A Southern Gothic fever dream. I read this years ago, and I can't say I enjoyed it as much as experienced it on the 2nd reading.
I have decided, when it comes to Southern/Dark/Country stories, I prefer William Gay, who has at least some redeeming qualities in a character or two... Provinces of Night for example.

If I am remembering correctly Neal, Gay idolized McCarthy, and they spoke on the phone and corresponded a few times.

I think this is my favorite of the month especially, after having now read The Passenger and Stella Maris which reflect back on Outer Dark with a more psychological and philosophical interpretation. I was much more conscious of an allusion to the Plato's Cave view of reality this time and loved how expressionistic McCarthy's prose is in description, how it shows the psychological underpinnings in words that are filled with images of light and dark.

You see some of the same themes with characters in possession of some thing that does not belong to them. In this book, a pair of boots and no country for old men a suitcase of money, and then all the pretty horses a horse. Nothing good comes to the one in possession .

I honestly finished this one about a week ago, and knew I thought it was powerful in a disturbing and dark way, but sat on commenting because I just needed to think about it for awhile and was just stumped.

To add on to Sam and Laura's thoughts and reflections, there is a level of symbolic or metaphorical existentialism (in a negative way I suppose, given the context of the novel) that is there. Especially given the ending of this novel and the Biblical/religious symbolism.

Truth be told, I was uncomfortable reading this one the entire time given the story line, but to Diane's point, I was drawn to McCarthy stylistically. It's like I couldn't stop reading.

This reminded a tad bit of Flannery O'Connner's Wise Blood in some ways in some of its overtones. But this one way more extreme.

I thought this and Child of God are his two darkest and most disturbing novels, but I haven't read Blood Meridian. It's pure mystery to me that he can make these novels so beautiful, but maybe that's where his genius comes in.

I sat this one out because I didn't want to go dark. But then I'm reading David Joy's Where All Light Tends to Go and it's pretty dark itself. He opens his story with this McCarthy quote from Blood Meridian, a book I want to read but have been too scared to open thus far.

Only now is the child finally divested of all that he has been. His origins are become remote as is his destiny and not again in all the world's turning will there be terrains so wild and barbarous to try whether the stuff of creation may be shaped to man's will or whether his own heart is not another kind of clay.

Speaking to Diane's "It's pure mystery to me that he can make these novels so beautiful" and Franky's "I was drawn to McCarthy stylistically. It's like I couldn't stop reading" is how I feel reading that quote above. I'm thinking, how can I not read more CM when his books are full of words like that. I'm a moth who is drawn to light which I know is an entry into dark. It makes no sense. I think I'm going to lose the battle. David Joy is like a McCarthy primer for me at this point.

Or maybe I should have said, Joy is like a gateway drug into McCarthy.

I've commented before that I would not want to be inside his head. I sincerely hope he had some joy in his life.

Mark, so glad you decided to post! I've been a lurker quite a bit myself lately because I haven't had much time to post.

Everyone -
I finished this awhile back but haven't had time to post. I loved this. It was creepy and dark but this inner darkness is easier to handle than the nonstop violence of Blood Meridian. As creepy as this was, at least the violence was off camera. The baby at the end was the hardest to take.

This was my first Southern Gothic style for him and now I'm looking forward to Child of God but will need to be in the right mood for this kind of darkness.

Did anyone else feel like the demons were really Culla's imagination and that he was a cannibalistic schizophrenic killer in all cases? I felt a hint of that earlier but the ending with the baby pretty much sealed it for me with the way he killed the baby.

I loved the Biblical symbolism and the dialogue. There also seemed to be an Odyssey vibe with the two journeys. I felt so sorry for Rinthy and the baby. I feel the only reason Rinthy was kept alive was for sex and that she was likely kidnapped by Culla from the start.

Diane wrote: "I've commented before that I would not want to be inside his head. I sincerely hope he had some joy in his life."

I got the impression that he loved spending time with his younger adult son, John, from an interview he gave during the last decade of his life. I really don't know much about his personal life, but felt that their relationship gave him happiness.

@Sue, Yes, the Biblical symbolism is very present. That's so true about the Odyssey that takes place with the two story lines and paths that we follow. I just read Joseph Conrad's Heart of Darkness before this one, and the journey of Culla and Rinthy reminded me quite a bit symbolically of Marlowe heading into "darkness" when he encounters Kurtz in that novel.

Franky wrote: "@Sue, Yes, the Biblical symbolism is very present. That's so true about the Odyssey that takes place with the two story lines and paths that we follow. I just read Joseph Conrad's [book:Heart of Da..."

Franky - I don't remember much about Heart of Darkness other than I had a hard time getting through it. I need to try that one again some day.

The big difference with The Odessey is that their journeys both ended up in a dead end. Neither one of them grew and they ended up right back where they started.

I was in a book reading and the author, Donald Ray Pollock said he tried to write nice wholesome characters but it just didn’t work for him. He specifically said he had the most kind and gentle uncle and he couldn’t even write nice about him in his books. I try to remember this when I read and not associate the content with the author themselves

Franky wrote: "I honestly finished this one about a week ago, and knew I thought it was powerful in a disturbing and dark way, but sat on commenting because I just needed to think about it for awhile and was just..."

I am linking to Franky's post because I wanted to comment directly on the existential themes evident but I am enjoying and responding to all thoughts in reality. I had not noticed to the existential aspects of this book initially because I was so taken with McCarthy's twisting of the Platonic ideal, but that is one of the strengths of McCarthy IMO; there are a lot of gateways to understanding and appreciating the novel beyond the surface entertainment. There are the bibilical allusions, the Southern Gothic allusions, the Jungian psychological archetypes, the existential comparisons, the mythic traditions, the expressionistic stylings, and so on. You can investigate the novels from a variety of perspectives or just concentrate on what you feel most comfortable with.

Sue, I see your point about the journeys of the characters being somewhat cyclical but i wonder if you feel that the reader ends up where he/she started at the end of the novel. I feel the reader has undergone a change.

I know some of you hail from Eastern Tennesse or a geographical location of similar cultural background. Did any of you get that sense of place emanating out of this story? I sure did.

How did you interpret the significance of the title? I am not well schooled in biblical references but there seems a lot of 1 John 5:19 in both the book and title.

Sam wrote: "Franky wrote: "I honestly finished this one about a week ago, and knew I thought it was powerful in a disturbing and dark way, but sat on commenting because I just needed to think about it for awhi..."

Thanks for the post Sam and your thoughts. I know that Wikipedia is very low on credibility these days (as it can be edited by an 8th grader), but they did offer that the title comes from a well versed quote in the Gospel of Matthew: "But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth".

Actually, this quote makes a lot of sense to me, based on the trials of our two lead characters, who must pay for their sins and go on such a crazy odyssey in more ways than one.

Does anyone else have a different interpretation? I'm still trying to interpret this novel.

Has anyone noticed a similarity between the final campfire scene and a scene in The Road?

By finishing this, I have now read every Cormac McCarthy novel and I confess to feeling a sense of relief. For the most part, I have not enjoyed his books and often feel like I need to take a shower after reading them. What kept me going over the years was his incredible ability to make the readers see the world he is describing. In that, he has an amazing gift that will guarantee his immortality.
Most of his books seem to be more a series of vignettes that meander about rather than follow a set road leading to a predetermined conclusion. In this book, I was reminded somewhat of the movie "Oh God, Where Art Thou" in that it uses disjointed, almost dreamlike encounters that draw on revered sources to send a message.
This may turn out to be my review.

I know how you feel Tom. I experience dread before reading any of his books, and need to go to much lighter books after finishing, but his prose is otherworldly. Now that you mention it, those two campfire scenes do seem similar.