The Sword and Laser discussion

It's spooky season here in North America. Everyone knows Veronica is already excited. Reading anything in the spirit of Halloween?

If not, what else are you enjoying this month?

I am still working on my books left over from my September list. My Horror reading will be A Song for the Void by Andrew C. Piazza. A nice $5.99 price for the eBook. First in The Cosmic Horror Cycle. One Last Gasp is the second book in the series.

I'd seen some article about how Tribbles were like the Martian race in Heinlein's early Juvenile "Red Planet" and realized I'd never read it. Library had a copy so off I went.

Man, can Heinlein tell a story. I was hooked in the first few pages. Released in 1949 so over 70 years old but still good. Familiar characters but well-defined strange environment on Mars. Appealing "pet" as the focus. Was almost halfway through when I realized very little had actually happened. The action got back-loaded. It's pretty much "going to school on Mars" followed by events leading to a revolution. A boy's adventure story at the start, then kids treated as adults towards the end.

Maybe part of it is nostalgia. This is the "future of the past" where planets in our solar system easily held life. Mars almost inhabitable and terraforming in progress. The local intelligent life gives permission to humans to settle.

And part of it is the acknowledged debt Stranger in a Strange Land owes to this book. The Martians of Red Planet led directly to the same race in that book. The doctor is an early version of Jubal Harshaw.

We don't have a writer of Heinlein's stature now, more's the pity. (Nor Bradbury, but his was a unique voice. Heinlein's skill could plausibly be replicated.) Libraries seem to have passed him by, an oddity for someone previously so well represented in them. There are exactly three of his books available at the LAPL Overdrive. A look on Amazon shows odd gaps; "Job: A Comedy of Justice" is not available in ebook, but forgettable-at-best works like Sixth Column or Farnham's Freehold are there. Most of the juveniles are there and are cheap. Perhaps a binge is in order...

My Big Discworld Read continues with Faust eric, which I definitely haven’t read before. The Rincewind books are my least favourite sub-series and this one is a not particularly inspired parody of the Aztecs. Still, it has its moments.

I'm going to start Stoker's Dracula tonight. I've never read it. Very embarrassing but I figure this is the perfect month for it.

Chris K. wrote: "I'm going to start Stoker's Dracula tonight. I've never read it. Very embarrassing but I figure this is the perfect month for it."

I’m reading it too for at least the fifth time in my case, this time via the Re: Dracula podcast, which is a full-cast audiobook version released in chunks on the dates given in the book’s internal chronology of letters and journal entries. It’s a great read for spooky season, enjoy!

Just finished my annual Heinlein reread. This year it was I Will Fear No Evil, which is generally considered his worst book. Holy crap, it's terrible.
There are both hardware and software reasons for this. He was getting quite ill as he was writing this and by the time he finished the rough draft he was both physically and mentally out of commission and stayed that way for the next 2 years. His wife, Virginia, is said to have done the revisions since he wasn't up to it.
The software part is the combination of Robert and Virginia as self insertion as the main character. Heinlein had been married 3 times in open marriages and was also a nudist and this really comes through in this book. Beyond the setup in the first few chapters their is really no plot here except sex. Talking about sex, thinking about sex, how, when, where, and with who and how many can we have sex. The sex is all offscreen but it's all this book is about and it get boring to read about.
The setup is Johann Smith is a 95 year old billionaire who through a series of coincidences has his brain transplanted in the body of his beautiful 27 year old secretary, Eunice. Her consciousness is somehow still active in his/her mind and most of the rest of the story is the two of them having an internal dialogue on how to be a woman and get laid a lot. This includes by Jake, his former friend/lawyer (in his 70's) whom she was having an affair with, her bodyguards, her nurse/maid and doctor, and Eunice's widowed husband and his new wife.
I'll mention a few scenes behind a spoiler tag because they will upset some people. (view spoiler)[ At one point, Joan (Johann's new name), is getting upset because her attempts to get Jake in bed keep getting interrupted and Jake has to finally spank her to calm her down which works, as well as gives her an orgasm. They both agree that sometimes the only way to calm down a hysterical woman is to spank her.
Winnie, the nurse, tells a story of when she was gang-raped at a party when she was blackout drunk by a bunch of interns but she says it's ok because she would have said yes if she was conscious and one of them left a nice note and a hangover cure at the bedside.
Near the end of the book about 2 dozen characters, including a 13 year old named Eve, are now living on a boat. Eve has been running around naked trying to seduce the old men, and Jake and her father discuss how "once a broad starts to get broad she's going to end up on her back sooner or later and there's nothing you can do about it" so her father has the doctor put her on "birth-control junior". (hide spoiler)]
Now that all being said, there are a couple good points. Heinlein's writing style is always a pleasure for me to read. He purposefully left Eunice's race ambiguous so people could picture whatever they thought of as beautiful (he stated this in a letter to his agent).
And he treated the sex change as just accepted as no big deal by society and all expressions of sexuality were equal. I find this pretty progressive for 1970.
Oh well. It's been over 30 years since I last read this and I probably never will again. It only gets better from here.

Phil wrote: "Just finished my annual Heinlein reread. This year it was I Will Fear No Evil, which is generally considered his worst book. "

My first thought is, "Nah, it could at most be third worst." I mean, I also love the guy but he's had some stinkers. Reading your description tho, yeah, this one has to join the "What in God's name were you thinking" list for Heinlein.

We've also got:

Farnham's Freehold: Don't have a nuclear apocalypse, because then the relatively-untouched people of Africa will take over and eat white kids as food animals! But it's okay, because the MC throws over his wife in favor of his daughter's black friend and they create a Libertarian stronghold. I've had people tell me this is satire. God, I hope so.

Sixth Column: The yellow menace invades America! But not any named country, "Pan-Asian." But it's okay, our own Patriotic Asian-Americans (tm) also fight them.

I am reading Rise of the Governor, a Walking Dead tie in novel.
It's OK but I wish I'd done a bit of background checking first as it seems to be the first part of a quartet (or did we settle on tetralogy?)
I'm about a third of the way through and it's as schlocky and splattery as you might expect but oddly a few instances of the Z-word have snuck through.

John (Taloni) wrote: "Phil wrote: "Just finished my annual Heinlein reread. This year it was I Will Fear No Evil, which is generally considered his worst book. "

My first thought is, "Nah, it could at mos..."

I didn't mind Farnham's Freehold so much. It was very pro Libertarian though and Heinlein said that it was meant to show that no matter what group was in power that it would become corrupted if unchecked. I think the wife in the book was a reflection of Heinlein's second wife, Leslyn, who was an alcoholic and who began to object to his acting on their open marriage.

Heinlein himself said later that he didn't like Sixth Column. Heinlein was pushed into writing the novel based on the unpublished story by his editor, John Campbell, which apparently was much more racist. Heinlein afterwards swore he'd never work off someone else's idea like that.

The one book of his that I think was poorly written style-wise was For Us, the Living. It was the first novel he wrote (1938) but never published until 2003, 15 years after his death and after the death of his wife Virginia.

Finishing up Stephen King's The Outsider. Getting onto the Holly bandwagon. I don't see her in the Mr Mercedes tv show yet.

Finished Faust eric which made for a fun palate cleanser. One of the weaker entries in the Discworld series but Pratchett’s books always have their moments- here I enjoyed the parody of Odysseus and the Trojan War.

Just started Daisy Jones & The Six by Taylor Jenkins Reid.

started earlier this month dracula and if cats disappeared from the world, so far so good

Ruth wrote: "Finished Faust eric which made for a fun palate cleanser. One of the weaker entries in the Discworld series but Pratchett’s books always have their moments- here I enjoyed the parod..."

I liked the part with Hell under ISO 9000-like efficiency. I've been reading through Discworld in order, too, and thought this was one of the weaker entries. (at least it was short!)

I loved the audio version of Daisy Jones.

Before tackling The Library at Mount Char, which sounds heavy and depressing, I’m clearing the decks with action sci-fi.

Frontier Corps was a by-the-numbers space marines story, basically a beach read.

Currently reading The Ramal Extraction by Steve Perry, which is quite good. I bought it when it came out and I’m just getting to it, but better late than never.

Went to the local library to return some books and accidentally took another one out. Now I'm reading Winter's Gifts by Ben Aaronovitch, a side novella to the Rivers of London series.

^ Freaky! Probably most of a year ago I had mentally tagged that as "want to read" for when it came out. It's been out now apparently for a few months. LA Public Library has an audiobook but not even a request option for ebook. Maybe they're not releasing it to libraries. Well, only $6 for the Kindle and my wife has bought most of the others. Wake up...time...to buy.

Trike wrote: "Before tackling The Library at Mount Char, which sounds heavy and depressing, ..."

Well that was a f**king understatement.

What is wrong with this guy? Seriously.

I've been on a Rivers of London kick, too. I just finished listening to False Value. At the end, it has a fun interview with Ben Aaronovitch and the narrator Kobna Holdbrook-Smith.

I've had Great Classic Ghost Stories: Unabridged Tales downloaded for a while so I'm going to listen to it for spoopy season.

On the Kindle, I'm reading Star Wars: From a Certain Point of View.

I found out about LitRPG on our discord, so kicked off this series Domestication...I even took advantage of 3 months of free Kindle Unlimited. I am enjoying the books.

I am still plugging along with the Dracula podcast. We are about a month behind but have committed to making a big push. I have a list of Dracula movies to watch as well. Starting with the ones that are least like books

Trike wrote: "Trike wrote: "Before tackling The Library at Mount Char, which sounds heavy and depressing, ..."

Well that was a f**king understatement.

What is wrong with this guy? Seriously."

I thought it was fun as hell.

RJ - Slayer of Trolls wrote: "I thought it was fun as hell."

Which part? Where the 11-year-old was slitting babies’ throats or the part where they cooked a boy alive? Or was it the more gruesome and sadistic passages?

You had to read it to get it.

Read two of the Lost Fleet books. Book 3 ended on a cliffhanger so I went on to the fourth right away. Easily available from LA Public Library.

It's a solid series, a fleet of spaceships fighting its way home through solar systems with connected wormholes. Themes of leadership burden, handling a fractious team and the difficulty of having interpersonal relationships under pressure.

Kinda repetitive and stolid prose keeps this at a 4 star rating. Every book includes "enter system, fight enemy at high speeds, have problems on way out." The books suffer by comparison to Heinlein as I read Red Planet right before. His easy writing style just isn't duplicated by anybody.

It's presented as hard SF but isn't. The fleets regularly approach each other at 10% of lightspeed so computers handle the actual attack - okay fine. Then they turn around, decelerate and attack again at the same speed. Yet the MC is worried about saving fuel cells for getting to the exit wormhole. Yeah, that's only a problem if you have friction. If you're making multiple passes at full speed then each pass is enough energy to handle the trip to the exit wormhole.

Some of it sounds good but on analysis is silly. They analyze attack patterns of a fleet 30 light minutes away. Yeah, that's the distance to the Asteroid belt from the Sun. And they're picking up features of individual ships? Mmmmmkay.

The author is a US Navy vet who went to Annapolis so he clearly has been educated on the leadership issues and probably encountered some of them. So it feels real.

There's a puzzling interpersonal relationship part that seems reminiscent of Babylon 5. He's dating a fair analogue of Delenn, but then has the hots for an Ivanova stand-in. Er. Sorry, can't relate. Maybe because Straczynski did so good a job so playing with the same concepts forces a comparison.

Anyway, there's two left in the main series. This is an obvious "USA vs the Soviet Union" setup so I'm expecting this will conclude with the Syndic government falling. A bit of a wait for the last two but I will gladly move on to them.

And then Podkayne of Mars. That's partly because the LA Public Library has precisely two of the Heinlein juveniles. Kinda odd because Heinlein was partly a creation of libraries who were big buyers of his books.

Is Podkayne a juvenile? It opens that way with a breezy travelogue narrated first person by Podkayne. She's 9, in Martian years. Heinlein gives us enough to figure out that's 17 by Earth reckoning.

There's not much of an obvious plot for the first 3/4 of the book. Podkayne takes the trip from the Martian surface to Deimos, then shipboard adventures, then Venus. She interacts with her uncle, a veteran of the Martian independence war referenced in Red Planet, and her brother, a brainy jerk. But it's all done with love.

I reread this despite not particularly liking it the first time because I'd read some things I wanted to follow up on. The mother apparently is supposed to be unsympathetic because she's a hard charging career woman who can't be bothered to raise her kids, leading to the son being antisocial. Yeah, I didn't get that at all. It's the usual Heinlein techno stuff, in this case the Mom and most Martians have kids young and freeze them until they're ready to raise them. The brother is referred to as obnoxious but lovable - kinda like how a sister would perceive any brother.

Heinlein goes on his usual soapbox. Podkayne is outwardly Scandinavian like her mother, but also has Maori and Polynesian influences from her dad. Her uncle is more obviously Maori and darker, which some highly unsympathetic busybodies on the ship remark on. And the usual Heinlein commentary on capitalism in its various forms and how social norms vary across cultures but none of them are wrong in and of themselves.

Well anyhoo. A lighthearted travelogue through the first 3/4 of the book. Then the narrative takes a hard turn into torture, murder and death for political gain. Podkayne wanders into a situation that she makes worse by her presence, showing no agency as MC. The brother causes a major problem that he could easily have averted. In the postlude Heinlein comments that he set it up that way to show how taking care of the young is the primary requirement of a civilization. Nice sentiment Heinlein, but you didn't show it with these plot points.

Anyway, done. I wanted to reread this and have done so. I don't recommend it.

Just finished the audiobook of The Misfit Soldier, which was awesome. A sci-fi version of “soldiers pulling scams during war” with plenty of twists and lots of moments that made me laugh out loud.

^ Whaddya know, LAPL has three copies! Tagged. Winter's Gifts is unlikely to take long to read and I don't know when book 5 of Lost Fleet will become available.

John (Taloni) wrote: "And then Podkayne of Mars. That's partly because the LA Public Library has precisely two of the Heinlein juveniles. Kinda odd because Heinlein was partly a creation of libraries who were big buyers..."

I wonder if you read the version from 1963 that the publisher wanted or the version from 1993 that Heinlein wanted. In the Heinlein version (view spoiler)[ Poddy dies in the explosion and the brother, having learned his lesson, raises the fairy. Most people seem to prefer that version. (hide spoiler)] I wonder if it would have made a difference for you one way or another.
It's funny. I was daydreaming just a few days ago about which Heinlein book I would pick for the group to read if I had the power and I settled on Podkayne. My first choice would have been The Moon is a Harsh Mistress but the group read it many years ago and Veronica lemmed it. A lot of his other books either have no significant female characters or other issues that would make them objectionable to a large segment of the group.
OK, I spend too much time thinking about things like that.

I did a reread of Have Spacesuit Will Travel a few years back, and don’t remember anything particularly objectionable about it. Granted it is one of his Juveniles, and thus doesn’t tackle big issues or themes, but is a fun adventure book. The main secondary character is a young smart but bratty girl, and while she is a bit stereotypical in that regard, is not too different from how I might see that character being written today.

Yeah, I'd already gone on too long so didn't mention that. I'm aware there are two endings. TBH I think I prefer the one that editors insisted on, so I'm in the minority. I felt similarly about the "director's cut" of The Butterfly Effect (the movie.) Bleah, I preferred the theatrical ending.

Heinlein was a mixed bag on female characters. He got some props for so much as having them in a day overwhelmingly dominated by male readers and characters. But his women were idealized, often superwomen. But then, so were his men. Both characters in Glory Road were far above average; and when his characters started average, they rose to the occasion. Heinlein seemed to do okay with women as major characters but not narrators. I thought he failed with Podkayne and didn't like Friday either. (I'm a super spy, but what I really want is to be a mommy! Anyone's embryo will do!) Okay, I exaggerate for effect, but there's enough there to make the argument.

FWIW I'm leaning towards the idea that Heinlein was forcibly reined in for his juveniles, to the betterment of the stories. Some of his unfettered "idea exploration" left me cold.

Trike wrote: "RJ - Slayer of Trolls wrote: "I thought it was fun as hell."

Which part? Where the 11-year-old was slitting babies’ throats or the part where they cooked a boy alive? Or was it the more gruesome a..."

Yes, those were all fun parts. But to be honest I think I liked the lions best. And the guy who wore the tutu. But it's been a while. My memory is a little hazy.

Larry Niven's Neutron Star short story collection set in the Known Space universe is like episodes of animated Star Trek. He actually wrote one, "The Slaver Weapon" episode featuring the Kzin aliens.

"What does a Kzin office worker wear to work?"

"A Kzin-Tie!"

Thank you, I'll be here all the week!

There’s 13 Kzin anthologies too by other writers https://www.goodreads.com/series/5022.... I think I’m going to grow a Known Space asymmetric beard.

Misti wrote: "On the Kindle, I'm reading Star Wars: From a Certain Point of View."

There are some gems in that collection.
The Imperial gunner stressing about giving the order to 'Hold your fire. There are no life forms aboard.' and being walked through a bureaucratic escape route is a joy.

It didn’t take me long to read Winter's Gifts so now I’m moving on to Lessons in Chemistry by Bonnie Garmus. I received it as a Christmas present last year so I want to read it before Christmas rolls around again!

The Lessons in Chemistry adaption will be on Apple soon (10/13) with Captain Marvel.

Oh cool, I hadn’t realised it was being made into a TV show.

John (Taloni) wrote: ""What does a Kzin office worker wear to work?"

"A Kzin-Tie!"

Thank you, I'll be here all the week!"

What does a Kzin Starfleet Captain drink?

Kzin-Tea!

You people just think about vegetables...

Tamahome wrote: "There’s 13 Kzin anthologies too by other writers https://www.goodreads.com/series/5022.... I think I’m going to grow a Known Space asymmetric beard.

"

The first few are really good, but the collections have been taken over by lesser writers, some of whom are of the extremist right wing viewpoint, so there are lots of global warming denier and “libtards are bad mmmkay” type stories infecting the things.

John (Taloni) wrote: "..."A Kzin-Tie!"..."

Bless you.

Just finished Night Watch by Terry Pratchett. Although I give almost all his books 5 stars this one is definitely in my top 3. I absolutely loved it. It seemed a little bit grittier, a little less fantasyish than most of the Discworld books and it really worked for me right now.
Next up is The Light of Other Days by Arthur C. Clarke and Stephen Baxter.

Phil wrote: "Just finished Night Watch by Terry Pratchett. Although I give almost all his books 5 stars this one is definitely in my top 3. I absolutely loved it. It seemed a little bit grittier, a..."

Are you reading discworld in publication order, or taking it mini series by mini series? I’ve been doing the series I like, and Night Watch is one I mean to go back too, because I really enjoyed it as well.

Truthfully I've been reading them more or less randomly, one or two every year. I've probably enjoyed the books in the Watch mini-series a little more than the others on average. If I had to pick some favorites so far I'd say Night Watch, Men at Arms and Small Gods are all up there.

Spotted a silly cat book on a promo tweet and picked it up. Cat's Paw by Robert A. Hoyt. It's all cats, no humans as helpers or masters. The end of the universe is coming and along with it a chance to reshape it, which is either a good thing or a bad one depending on who you are. The story is told in a comedic tone that reminds me of Hitchhiker's Guide.

The book was supposedly written by Robert at the age of 13. He's the son of SFF author Sarah Hoyt so I suspect an uncredited co-author.

It's plenty of fun, silliness and commentary along the way. Ending was smashup action, the journey there a little long. At 300 pages it could have lost a good 50-80 with no impact. But then, people expect longer books now. Anyway, it was a fun interlude between more serious works.

Phil wrote: "...Next up is The Light of Other Days by Arthur C. Clarke and Stephen Baxter."

I'll be interested to hear what you think. I used to read a lot of Clarke but I never read any of his collaborations with Baxter.

I finished the excellent Science-Fiction short story collection


Her Smoke Rose Up Forever by James Tiptree Jr.
Rating: 4 stars
Review: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

I'm liking the Niven short stories. I think I'm burned out on long books with multiple pov's.

^ Which books are you reading now? My first Niven was Tales of Known Space. Some great stuff there. Lots of collections tho, I think the best got collected into N-Space (along with a tedious Integral Trees novella).