Sci-fi and Heroic Fantasy discussion

Hi all! I am a first-time author of a heroic fantasy novel - and genuinely curious what makes you try an author you have not heard about? So many fellow authors I talk to struggle to get people interested with their work. Apart from obvious things like recommendations, if you think about the last time you tried some new book, what was that tempted you about it?

It's usually if the cover looks good and the blurb sounds like something I might be interested in. Then I might look at the first bit in Amazon's look inside feature. If I like it, then I might buy it.

Recommendations are a big one, from friends, this group or book bloggers, but outside of that - the artwork is something that will get me to pick up a book and read the blurb - cover art by Michael Whelan in particular was the reason I picked up e.g Crown of Shadows by CS Friedman as I wanted to find out about the character featured on the front.
The title of the series and the book also plays a role I think, as I do find myself dismissing books on the basis of that when going for something new. As to the why of that I have no idea.

I seldom find recommendations useful but I do use the sample feature for ebooks as a few pages usually tell me whether I want to read more. Reviews aren’t so useful as they can be so contradictory ( *DNF to *****best book ever, want to give it more) for the same book. Covers can be off putting, especially when they don’t seem to tie in with the blurb and sample. For me, make sure that the designer actually knows what the book is about and also understands the concept behind it. Eye catching is great but only when linked to relevance.

Anthologies or other short story collections have recently (for me) been a way of trying new authors. They’re not usually something I go for but I’ve read a couple recently and have added new (to me) authors to my TBR pile.
I don’t use the look inside feature on Amazon or try sample chapters.

Hi Andy. Just out of curiosity, why don't you like the look inside/sample chapter feature? It has saved me money on several occasions LOL. I have had rave recommendations from friends to get books "I'm going to love," that are " just my thing" picked up sample chapters and found I hate the writing style with a passion or just don't for the life of me see why they thought I would like it.☺

Actually, thinking about it, it can be quite disturbing... So, that's how you see me eh? ☺

Answering the original question... Sometimes recommendations from personal friends or as has often been the case lately, from this group here On Goodreads, who have good taste. Nevertheless, I still use look inside/sample to form a judgement before buying. The cover might play a part, but I am wary of them as they are often misleading. The blurb is important, does it sound like my kind of thing? Reviews and ratings are a useful gauge but again you have to be wary as they too can be misleading. Yeah... Probably, if it's not a recommendation from a trusted source, the appeal of otherwise of the blurb and samples are the two biggest deciders...☺

Reviews and the blurb. But if the blurb has "unputdownable" I'll pass.

I usually go right to the negative reviews first. Sometimes the sea of five stars are from family or friends of the author so I ignore those. Unless they're reviews from years later than the published date. Ironically, some negative reviews detail things that are a positive to me as a reader.

I also ignore those books with something along the lines of, "George R.R. Martin meets Robin Hobb", because inevitably the story is no such thing.

Hi Robin, I’ve read a few series where if i’d just gone on the first few chapters would have meant I wouldn’t pick up the book/series. Saga of the Exiles is like that (imo), which was a recommendation from a friend whose opinion on books I trusted. He emphasised I needed to persevere beyond the first sections, and it more than repaid the effort. I won’t judge a book by a slow start, and tend to persevere. (I don’t have many DNFs on my list.) I can see benefits if the first 3 chapters grab you, but it can still go downhill from there. I’ve had series too (as have we all I think) where the start has been great, but the last part/book sucks.

I’m wary of reviews. Recommendations generally need to come from folks who like similar books to you. Someone else’s 5 star can be your 1 star and vice versa.

Andy wrote: "Hi Robin, I’ve read a few series where if i’d just gone on the first few chapters would have meant I wouldn’t pick up the book/series. Saga of the Exiles is like that (imo), which was a recommendat..."

When I read the first part of a book, I’m looking at the style more than the content. If a book is written in a way that really strikes a chord with me, I don’t mind a slow start. Ages ago, I made the mistake of trying a book that was written up as being absolutely hilarious by critics and reviewers, without trying a sample first. A couple of chapters in and I decided a visit to the dentist was funnier. Fortunately, I started reading on the afternoon I bought it, so was able to return it for a refund but it taught me a lesson!

One shouldn't judge a book by its cover but if the cover doesn't look good or looks amateurish I have to admit I'm less likely to pick it up. I also agree about the person who mentioned if the cover had nothing to do with the story, but that's hard to judge till you read it, but then you feel cheated.

Blurb needs to interesting me, for example if its one of those angsy YA novels I'm not picking it up, to prevent my eyes rolling out of my head. I use GR reviews to help pick those outs too. But otherwise the blurb reviews and GR reviews I mostly ignore. I don't care if lots of people or few people read it, some of my favs are the unknown stuff.

I'm guessing you're an indie author and I'll say how it works for me. Frankly there just SO MUCH out there, both professionally published and self published.

Thus two things play a role, first is price, if I'm going to pay for something I want to know its good and while a professionally published book is not guaranteed to be good, at least it will have passed through some editors and won't be riddled with typos. Mind you, I feel more cheated if I paid and it turned out to be bad :D

Don't get me wrong, one of my favorite series (Clockwork Twist) is an indie author so I'm not saying all self-published stuff is bad, hardly! But I've also read some real stinkers that would never have gotten past a publisher, just the poor writing, plotting and characterization. I remember one book where a wizard in training figured out how to magic meat for his dragon and then he proceeded to produce meat at least once every chapter, I mean I get it, he has meat power, now move on ^__^

If its free I'm more likely to try anything...but you should see the MASS of stuff I've already downloaded. So now its just about "so much to read, so little time" so I could choose to read some really famous classic stuff (Shannara, Ender's Game, Dresden Files, Dune, etc) or something that I have no clue about that might still be ok but not great. Sure I could be missing out on a gem (e.g. Clockwork Twist) but the other stuff I listed above are gems too.

And in the end, I have several sources of cheap books. There are 4 neighbourhood book exchange boxes in walking distance. I've got a library that has a lot of what I want, and OpenLibrary for most of the rest (though I don't like reading whole novels on my desktop). I've got 3 used bookstores in walking distance (though one is pretty far so it gets at most 2 visits a year LOL). Indie books don't usually end up in those locations.

So I wish you the best of luck! There is so much stuff out there that it must be very very hard to get your voice heard. Personally I think its a whole lot of luck, and the things that win aren't always the best. Guess its similar to trying to become a famous actor or musician. All are artists, and all want to make a living at what they do, but so very very hard with limited audience and lots of people wanting to follow that dream.

Must admit one thing I don't do is read the first couple chapters or an excerpt, if I start something I pretty much finish it, even if its bad, sometimes I'm even driven to finish the whole series...hence why I need to be careful before I start :o)

Hi Andy. Yeah I take your point. Like Isabella though, I am really looking more at writing style, feel and atmosphere when I read a sample. Pacing I will give a pass to initially, you can't really judge that on a couple of chapters.

Hey, Andrea you make a lot of good points regarding indie stuff. For myself, trying to sell what I wrote has completely sucked all the joy out of writing for me. I am currently trying to rebuild from that and learn to write just for myself again. It's a process...☺

Robin wrote: "Hey, Andrea you make a lot of good points regarding indie stuff. For myself, trying to sell what I wrote has completely sucked all the joy out of writing for me. I am currently trying to rebuild fr..."

It’s a shame you’ve lost the joy, Robin. I used to do technical writing for a living but it was an actual paid job, not at the mercy of the buying reader. My other half writes for academics (he’s a professor) and never has a problem getting published but the market is so limited for his stuff that he couldn’t possibly make a living from his books. He gets discouraged, especially when he hits a problem, but as soon as he gets an idea for the next one, he’s off. I’ve lived with the ups and downs for fifty years so I’m used to it but I sympathise with any author trying to make their way. Good luck to you all.

Thank you for the sympathy Isabella.☺

I have actually challenged myself to write just a little something for Halloween. I mean in theory I should be finishing book three of my Bell Hill series but I haven't written a word of that in well over a year. LOL.

I want to see how it feels now, it's not for anything, I'm not going to try and sell it or anything like that, just want to see where I'm at...

Anyway, apologies... Off topic...☺

That might be the best way to get started, just write something because you want to write. Then if you put it out there and takes off, great! But if not, well you wrote something you wanted to write regardless. There must be a lot of pressure on career authors since you now need to live off of what you write and what if you're not in the mood? (Well, I'm often not in the mood to go to my work but I do it anyway...) Much as I don't have much sympathy for say Martin, since he made so much money off his fans (books, TV, music, etc), its not like I've ever started a project that I later got tired of and gave up on. Mind you, I wasn't making money off of people for those projects and then left them hanging :P

After all authors like him have pretty well trained me not to start reading a series until its been completed first...which means no series will ever get written if everyone did what I do since authors wouldn't get any money to keep writing if they can't sell their first installment in a series!!!

Robin wrote: "Anyway, apologies... Off topic...☺"

You are right... I would not stop writing even if I would be the only one reading it. Luckily for me as well, I do not have to rely on it for living, I have a 'day job'... However, connecting with people through art is one of the most enriching feelings! It is easy to get addicted to it. Hence, it is so fulfilling to reach more people with your books!

Andy wrote: "Recommendations are a big one, from friends, this group or book bloggers, but outside of that - the artwork is something that will get me to pick up a book and read the blurb - cover art by Michael..."

Super interesting, thank you for sharing... I picked up for a cover an artist who is not very well known but I love his work and from the day one I approached him it felt we really connected... I guess for any form of art it is so difficult to make a name for yourself. But I would not exchange the collaboration with Racim, who made my book cover, for even the most famous fantasy illustrator. Sometimes it is about connection between two artists.

Lynne wrote: "It's usually if the cover looks good and the blurb sounds like something I might be interested in. Then I might look at the first bit in Amazon's look inside feature. If I like it, then I might buy..."

thank you for sharing your perspective! great for me to learn!

Good luck with the book Ula. ☺

Thank you! 🙏 appreciate any word of advice I can get

For indie books, I like to talk with the writer. I like that personal connection. I also want assurance that there was an editor involved, and a quality cover tells me the writer likely made that investment. Otherwise, the premise just needs to appeal to me.

Don't try to appeal to everyone; find your genre and your audience. They have certain favorite tropes they want in their particular genre. Be sure to fulfill those expectations.

Because I am an editor, I notice all the errors and I can't help noting things I would mention in a developmental edit.

I agree, Audrey, it’s very disruptive to the flow of a book when it’s full of typos and wrong usage. I do a lot of editing and although I try not to have my editing head on when I read for pleasure, it’s still humming away in the background in spite of my efforts. It’s not just indie authors who make uncorrected mistakes either. Publishers are also guilty of trying to keep costs down by putting more onto authors.

Audrey wrote: "For indie books, I like to talk with the writer. I like that personal connection. I also want assurance that there was an editor involved, and a quality cover tells me the writer likely made that i..."

That is a very interesting perspective on the personal connection. Thank you, really appreciate!

Recommendations from family, friends or like minded readers. Reddit and Goodreads groups are also great ways to get recs for books I'd otherwise overlook.

For instance if I hadn't joined a group here I probably would have missed out on my new favourite book series Poor Man's Fight by Elliott Kay . Currently on book 5 and it's only getting better. 😃

Isabella wrote: "I agree, Audrey, it’s very disruptive to the flow of a book when it’s full of typos and wrong usage. I do a lot of editing and although I try not to have my editing head on when I read for pleasure..."

Yes, exactly. I am seeing way more errors in trad published books than there should be.

And yet they never get mentioned in reviews. People spot something in a trad pub book, experience a moment of surprise and move on. In an indie though....☺

I recently read a book where one page got duplicated, clearly publishing error. Since it was a "non-fiction" book about dwarves I couldn't actually tell if that meant I missed out on a page or not, since each page was kind of a standalone topic. So there can definitely be more than just typos in traditional publishing.

Though I can't say I've seen lots of typos in traditional publishing, but then I generally don't read the newest of books where you guys were saying you are seeing the trend.

I don't mind a small typo here and there, in fact if the typo is also funny to boot I tend to treasure it like a little gem of a treat. I can't think of one from a book off hand but during my sister's roleplaying days she epically mistyped "She shifted to get more comfortable" and forgot the "f" in "shift"...I mean doing that would indeed make you more comfortable but her roleplaying companion wasn't quite sure what to say to that...

On the other hand if there are a five per page, most of which could be caught by a simple pass through the spellchecker in Word...well, no excuses.

Robin wrote: "And yet they never get mentioned in reviews. People spot something in a trad pub book, experience a moment of surprise and move on. In an indie though....☺"

I mention it -- it's a disservice to the writer.

G has sent back a book recently for having pages missing. They sent another copy, same pages missing, so he’s given up.

Weird. Probably an entire printing got messed up.

Might be worth looking further through the book. I had that once in a hard back, where the pages are bound into the book in pairs. Two pairs had somehow been swapped with a set from another chapter, meaning that the four pages I was looking for were elsewhere in the book. ☺ it was from a remaindered book dump bin in a discount book shop (The Works) so I didn't bother returning it. It was probably why it was there in the first place.

Robin wrote: "Might be worth looking further through the book. I had that once in a hard back, where the pages are bound into the book in pairs. Two pairs had somehow been swapped with a set from another chapter..."

I had a book that was something like that, it was about the Bermuda Triangle so I thought it was kind of appropriate that things went a little wonky

Andrea wrote: "Robin wrote: "Might be worth looking further through the book. I had that once in a hard back, where the pages are bound into the book in pairs. Two pairs had somehow been swapped with a set from a..."

That sounds like a proper 'purposeful mischief' situation!

Isabella wrote: "G has sent back a book recently for having pages missing. They sent another copy, same pages missing, so he’s given up."

Robin wrote: "Might be worth looking further through the book. I had that once in a hard back, where the pages are bound into the book in pairs. Two pairs had somehow been swapped with a set from another chapter..."

I had the same with one of the editions of Tolkien's 'Lord of the Rings. The Two Towers'. Approximately 80 pages were missing replaced by doubling of the same chapters. I was a kid when I was reading it, could not afford another copy, did not know one can send it to publisher to request an exchange. So I waited approx. 10 years to learn what happened there...

I am picturing that like a TV sitcom. Young person in bedroom reading. Stops looks puzzled and starts frantically searching through the book, turning it upside down and shaking into see if the missing pages fall out. Title card. " Ten years later..." Same person, ten years older reading new edition of the book in open mouthed astonishment whilst "the golden glow of enlightenment " shines of the pages...☺

Robin wrote: "I am picturing that like a TV sitcom. Young person in bedroom reading. Stops looks puzzled and starts frantically searching through the book, turning it upside down and shaking into see if the miss..."

😂 I seem to recall something about a lending library where someone was removing the pages with the solution to the mystery from crime novels. Not sure if it was real or fictional …

Which, being an old geezer, makes me think of Tony Hancock and the fictional thriller, "Lady Don't Fall Backwards" with the missing final page that he became obsessed with. ..☺

Robin wrote: "Which, being an old geezer, makes me think of Tony Hancock and the fictional thriller, "Lady Don't Fall Backwards" with the missing final page that he became obsessed with. ..☺"

Now you mention it, I remember that but I think there may have been a real incident like it. Chicken or egg for the episode? Or maybe more than one devious mind at work?

Paperbacks have been plagued by bad publishing for decades. I have quite a few examples in my collection. In the early 1970s, I got 3 books from a rack at a train station & all had a few pages printed out of order in the center of the books.

A number of republished paperbacks in the early 1990s that had a lot of typos, IIRC. I was told it was because of corporate mergers & the original manuscripts were lost, so they were retyped manually. I'm not sure if that was true or not, but they seemed to have used drunken monkeys as typists & weren't copy edited at all.

Quite a few indie books are 'professionally' edited for hundreds of dollars & the editing sucks. Several times I was given books to review & quit early because of typos. In a couple of cases, I was pretty sure the books had been edited since I'd seen posts about their writing progress.

What's worse is when a big name book comes out with really bad errors. I quit reading the Dresden series because one book had so many. They weren't typos, but actions/settings.
- A big deal was made over Harry needing to drive a stick because of his effect on complex machinery & then he shifted into "Drive".
- Electric power was out in a building so Harry had to slog his way up many flights of stairs. He did his thing & then, power still out, took the elevator down.
- His staff was inside & outside a room during a fight.
It was just horrible. I could never work up any interest in the series again.

Isabella wrote: "Robin wrote: "I am picturing that like a TV sitcom. Young person in bedroom reading. Stops looks puzzled and starts frantically searching through the book, turning it upside down and shaking into s..."

I so want to believe that it was real! :D

Robin wrote: "I am picturing that like a TV sitcom. Young person in bedroom reading. Stops looks puzzled and starts frantically searching through the book, turning it upside down and shaking into see if the miss..."

Haha, to this day I feel awkward when I go through that part of the book. It's like it does not belong there :D I got so used to reading it without those 80 pages! And replaced stuff in my mind by the time I learnt what Tolkien meant to do there :D

I like the notion that you replaced the missing bit with 80 pages of Tolkein fan fiction.☺