Sci-Fi, fantasy and speculative Indie Authors Review discussion
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Rewrites
Richard wrote: "Ken, I see from your blog that you've finished revising Ship of Storms. I must admit, my first reaction was, 'So where does that leave my review - am I supposed to re-read the book and rewrite the ..."I suppose you could just leave a note on your review that it pertains to a previous edition. However, that would depend on how major the revisions are.
Rob wrote: "Until now I have no clue what to do with such rewrites when I get to it. Do I make them 'updates' of the original stories? Do I release them as 'extended edition', or do I release them as completely distinct eBooks?"
Rob, as I recall, "2001" was a short story. They made it into a movie, and then (unless I'm much mistaken), a novel after the fact. In the early 70's, there was this thing going on where a few authors (MZB was one) expanded short novels into 500-pg monsters. So the idea of releasing a short story (or novella or short novel), and then expanding it into novel later is not new, and has been done by quite famous authors.
Richard wrote: "Ken, I see from your blog that you've finished revising Ship of Storms. I must admit, my first reaction was, 'So where does that leave my review - am I supposed to re-read the book and rewrite the ..."
I haven't yet finished with the revision of Ship of Storms; the new edition will have a brand new cover, and I'll also announce the release. Keep in mind that revisions and 2nd editions have always been a common practice. I can't recall the exact works, but I do recall that Arthur C. Clarke did a complete rewrite of one of his earlier works, and even gave the new one a different title. As for editing out all of those annoying reviews, I'm not sure but I was under the impression that a new edition erases all of the reviews for the first one. If so, I'll be losing a lot of good ones, too; in fact, most of them were very good, so I don't think I'll gain anything by it on that front.
As far as your review is concerned, it was clever, but I disagreed with virtually all of it, and most of what you disliked is still there, including the cotton fields. I understand that this was your honest opinion of the book, and I have no argument there. I did take some cues from your review and those of other readers to add greater emphasis to some of the things that might have been passed over lightly in the earlier version and perhaps missed. But I have another reason for the revision, aside from liking the book enough to want to be the best I can make it.
Did I publish it before it was ready? Yes and no. I had been out of the business for about 20 years, and most of the book was written back when a slower start and greater elaboration of character and scenes were accepted more readily than they are today. It was, I think, a reasonable example of that type of "literary" character study. After publication I began interacting with others on websites such as Goodreads, and learned that the style might be a little outdated. I even included a prologue, which most people these days hate. I have to admit that it has sold few copies, so not many readers will be affected by the the issue of a 2nd edition; I think the prologue and the early couple of chapters squashed interest in the book. I also think that the cover, while interesting, was not up to standards. My style did, I hope, catch up while I was writing To Summon The Blackbird; in fact I made quite a few editorial changes after finishing the first draft simply because I recognized in some of the earlier parts elements of the older style that needed to be excised and smoothed over.
So, many of your criticisms of the first edition might still apply to the second. The flashbacks, a vital part of the story, are still there, though more streamlined and without a lot of the extraneous stuff that slowed the pace. I eliminated the prologue, added two chapters up front to develop the beginning a little better, deleted some scenes and shortened others in the early part of the book to make it move a little faster, added a few new scenes to get more into the center of action, and added a new chapter following the climax in order to better transition to the final one. Another reader complained that it shied away from action scenes in places, so I added more of those. The fact is, I couldn't eliminate everything that each reader disliked about it without also eliminating what some did like about it, but I did keep all of the criticisms in mind.
My opinion, of course, is that it was good before, and it's even better now. My impression of your review, as well as some of the others, was that you were disappointed that it was the story it was instead of the story you expected. In that light, your review probably won't change. It's basically a matter of personal taste.
If you got it from Amazon, I think you'll be able to get a free update to the new edition, but I'm not sure. If I can arrange it, I will. And you can certainly read two of the new chapters from the "Look Inside" feature.
I haven't yet finished with the revision of Ship of Storms; the new edition will have a brand new cover, and I'll also announce the release. Keep in mind that revisions and 2nd editions have always been a common practice. I can't recall the exact works, but I do recall that Arthur C. Clarke did a complete rewrite of one of his earlier works, and even gave the new one a different title. As for editing out all of those annoying reviews, I'm not sure but I was under the impression that a new edition erases all of the reviews for the first one. If so, I'll be losing a lot of good ones, too; in fact, most of them were very good, so I don't think I'll gain anything by it on that front.
As far as your review is concerned, it was clever, but I disagreed with virtually all of it, and most of what you disliked is still there, including the cotton fields. I understand that this was your honest opinion of the book, and I have no argument there. I did take some cues from your review and those of other readers to add greater emphasis to some of the things that might have been passed over lightly in the earlier version and perhaps missed. But I have another reason for the revision, aside from liking the book enough to want to be the best I can make it.
Did I publish it before it was ready? Yes and no. I had been out of the business for about 20 years, and most of the book was written back when a slower start and greater elaboration of character and scenes were accepted more readily than they are today. It was, I think, a reasonable example of that type of "literary" character study. After publication I began interacting with others on websites such as Goodreads, and learned that the style might be a little outdated. I even included a prologue, which most people these days hate. I have to admit that it has sold few copies, so not many readers will be affected by the the issue of a 2nd edition; I think the prologue and the early couple of chapters squashed interest in the book. I also think that the cover, while interesting, was not up to standards. My style did, I hope, catch up while I was writing To Summon The Blackbird; in fact I made quite a few editorial changes after finishing the first draft simply because I recognized in some of the earlier parts elements of the older style that needed to be excised and smoothed over.
So, many of your criticisms of the first edition might still apply to the second. The flashbacks, a vital part of the story, are still there, though more streamlined and without a lot of the extraneous stuff that slowed the pace. I eliminated the prologue, added two chapters up front to develop the beginning a little better, deleted some scenes and shortened others in the early part of the book to make it move a little faster, added a few new scenes to get more into the center of action, and added a new chapter following the climax in order to better transition to the final one. Another reader complained that it shied away from action scenes in places, so I added more of those. The fact is, I couldn't eliminate everything that each reader disliked about it without also eliminating what some did like about it, but I did keep all of the criticisms in mind.
My opinion, of course, is that it was good before, and it's even better now. My impression of your review, as well as some of the others, was that you were disappointed that it was the story it was instead of the story you expected. In that light, your review probably won't change. It's basically a matter of personal taste.
If you got it from Amazon, I think you'll be able to get a free update to the new edition, but I'm not sure. If I can arrange it, I will. And you can certainly read two of the new chapters from the "Look Inside" feature.
Ken wrote: "I even included a prologue, which most people these days hate..."I don't mean to hijack this, but you are at least the third author I've heard mention that about prologues. Is that really possible? It seems extraordinary to me. (Not that I dispute the assertion at all. I just don't get out much.)
I revised The Dark Colony after several reviews here and on Amazon, and they seem to be attached to the new edition. I mostly added in-line illustrations, which might have altered perceptions a little, and fixed some typos, but the story is basically the same. Naturally I'd love it if a couple of the less positive reviews were withdrawn, but since I frankly didn't revise to address their concerns, I can't claim the right.
Owen wrote: "I don't mean to hijack this, but you are at least the third author I've heard mention that about prologues. Is that really possible? It seems extraordinary to me. (Not that I dispute the assertion at all. I just don't get out much.)"The people who dislike a prologue tend to not understand what it's used for, which often enough is back-story that helps set the opening context for the storyline. A prologue is used to avoid causing some of the odd segues into seemingly extraneous schtuff you can (and too often) have without a prologue.
I've seen some work by newer writers (sans prologue but with oddly placed data dumps) that leaves me scratching fleas as I try to figure out what they're trying to say, and why they didn't write a good prologue, which would have been simpler.
R.F.G. wrote: "The people who dislike a prologue tend to not understand what it's used for..."Obviously there are good prologues and bad ones (like anything), but that a group of people could condemn prologues in general just strikes me as passing strange. (I wonder who starts these fads?)
All our current books have prologues (and epilogues) and all the future ones in our series will, as well. I guess we'll just have to get ourselves a bell.
Owen wrote: "Ken wrote: "I even included a prologue, which most people these days hate..."I don't mean to hijack this, but you are at least the third author I've heard mention that about prologues. Is that re..."
That's because some people state they don't actually read prologues. Personally, I think prologues are an integral part of a book and I'd never think about skipping it.
G.G. wrote: "That's because some people state they don't actually read prologues..."I must suppose then they don't watch the beginning of movies either? Just skip to the part with the exploding helicopters? (Or do movies just start with exploding helicopters these days?)
I've also run across a lot of people who say they never read prologues, and if you read some of the reviews of my book you'll see that those who mention the prologue didn't like it very much. I saw it as a somewhat humorous way to set up the story. I've now substituted two chapters with action scenes, both active and inferred, to set up the book. It's probably better for those who might tend to buy the book, but I did like the prologue. It was fun to write. By the way, currently you can see the prologue on the "Look Inside" feature on Amazon and elsewhere. The old edition will remain up until I'm ready to replace it with the new one.
Owen wrote: "G.G. wrote: "That's because some people state they don't actually read prologues..."I must suppose then they don't watch the beginning of movies either? Just skip to the part with the exploding h..."
I don't know, maybe. :P
What I'm thinking is that they don't actually know what the prologue is. They might mistake it with the foreword or/and the introduction.
I'd understand not reading those because, aside from very few exceptions, I don't either.
G.G. wrote: "What I'm thinking is that they don't actually know what the prologue is. They might mistake it with the foreword or/and the introduction."That sounds plausible. Scary, but plausible.
By the way, a couple of the readers said I got the physics wrong. That puzzled me, because I had carefully calculated everything. But I think I figured it out; they didn't like the way the fighters moved in space. I had them arcing for a turnaround to come back. So, okay, spacecraft can't do that very easily until we learn how to surf the solar wind. But it looks so much cooler than having them flip over to get the thrusters forward for a slow down. But I fixed it anyway. (Damn)
Ken, I've got to side with the "hate banking turns" faction, I'm afraid. It may look cool, but that's because airplanes do it. For me, it's the identifying sign of bad science fiction movies, and I won't watch past it. So, well done for taking it out!
Ken wrote: "By the way, a couple of the readers said I got the physics wrong."We've had a small handful of readers complain about the "physics" in our books (and I refuse to calculate a damn thing these days, so I admire you doing it) which I find highly amusing. We do play "fast & loose" with String Theory, but then String Theory is not even close to being "right" at this point, so of course we mess with it. To posit that centuries in the future, physicists are still bumbling within the same constraints we have today is idiotic.
But since some people evidently like to pick on such things, we’ve started including deliberate scientific errors in the books for them to find. We intend to offer prizes for the first person who finds them and correctly notes them in a review. : )
Rob wrote: "I think prologue and epilogue are opportunities for style and rhythm change. So exploding helicopters in a prologue might actually work quite well if there are non in the rest of the story ;-)"
We actually did that in our second book. We swapped the first chapter and the original prologue, when it occurred to us the first chapter was outside the main narrative, and needed to happen first. The "exploding helicopters" part was coincidental.
Mod
What I have seen is some authors who add the fact that book was updated onto their blurb. I don't know how I feel about that. I'm planning to rerelease a series this summer after expanding distribution and I will likely go over it and edit all of my rookie errors, but I won't give a hoot about the reviews that mention the typos. As far as I'm concerned, if they read an awful book full of typos, they have the right to complain and I have the right to consider the feedback valid and make changes.
Richard wrote: "Ken, I've got to side with the "hate banking turns" faction, I'm afraid. It may look cool, but that's because airplanes do it. For me, it's the identifying sign of bad science fiction movies, and I..."Yes, but physics doesn't prevent you from banking if you want to. Why not have fun? ; )
I need to update my descriptions to add approximate word counts. Since so many people equate number of pages with rough word count (regardless of actual size format) it looks like ~XX,XXX words equivalent to XXX pages by traditional publishing formula .It might help people realize that with good typography an example print book of 72,000 words at 188 pages in 6x9 trade format is the equivalent of the 288 page Traditional calculation.
@Rob,I understand about cognitive / visual disabilities, and it's not a matter of me producing one edition for everyone. I will be doing a large print and an added white-space edition as well.
Having compared the 6x9 Trade size I did to other books in that same size format , using 12pt Georgia font, it's not cranked down to illegibility -- I'd send you a pdf but it's likely just as easy for you to try one on your own.
Now if by horrid you're thinking 72,000 words crammed into 188 pages in a 4.25x6.88 Pocket Book size, you'd be correct, but that's not what I said. I also don't think you'll find that many large print editions in Pocket Book size format.
Owen wrote: "Yes, but physics doesn't prevent you from banking if you want to. Why not have fun?..."
Exactly. I assume that the right thruster/retro combination will accurately mimic a banking aircraft, it would just be more expensive with fuel and, on a practical level, pointless. In my newest novel, set two millenia in the future, they veer and arc and I'm okay with that. However, Ship of Storms is less than 200 years from now, so maybe not.
Christina wrote: "As far as I know, when you make a change to your book, Amazon will keep the reviews if you simply update with a new draft. If you completely unpublish and get a new ASIN, your reviews are nuked and..."
Since the book is longer by about a 1000 words, and it involves some major changes, I'm sure that CreateSpace will require me to get a new IBSN, and because of that I think the ebook should have a new one also. Most of the old reviews, good or bad, will no longer be accurate in their decription of the book.
Exactly. I assume that the right thruster/retro combination will accurately mimic a banking aircraft, it would just be more expensive with fuel and, on a practical level, pointless. In my newest novel, set two millenia in the future, they veer and arc and I'm okay with that. However, Ship of Storms is less than 200 years from now, so maybe not.
Christina wrote: "As far as I know, when you make a change to your book, Amazon will keep the reviews if you simply update with a new draft. If you completely unpublish and get a new ASIN, your reviews are nuked and..."
Since the book is longer by about a 1000 words, and it involves some major changes, I'm sure that CreateSpace will require me to get a new IBSN, and because of that I think the ebook should have a new one also. Most of the old reviews, good or bad, will no longer be accurate in their decription of the book.
Ken,If you've registered a copyright on the story (and I hope you have), if you've changed less than 20% the old copyright applies, and therefore it's basically the same 'edition'.
If you've added / subtracted chapters you'd need to register a new copyright as it's a new edition.
If the 1,000 words amounts to more that a 20% change, the new ISBN would be required.
Yeah, back before Her Grace could move quickly I had too much time to read stuff on the LOC Copyright Office website. Now I have to find time to hunt my sanity in vain, though the laundry and dishes get done.
Hard to say how much I changed, but that 1000 words is a NET change. I cut 6000 or more in the first third of the book, added more than that back with the 3 additional chapters, and cut a great deal more between deleted and added scenes. I'd say it's more than 20%, but I can't be certain. Createspace requires a new ISBN (why can't I ever get that right) if you change it by even one page.
When in doubt register a new copyright for a second edition, though off the top of my head I don't remember how many copies of old and new edition you'd need to send in.Once I get a story it's basic finish and a passable edit done, I don't rewrite though I will do minor edits.
If you don't want to make the ones who already bought your book mad, don't forget to specify it's a new edition of the same book though, less someone might buy it again thinking it's a sequel or something since their review (and all the other reviews) will be gone.
R.F.G. wrote: "When in doubt register a new copyright for a second edition, though off the top of my head I don't remember how many copies of old and new edition you'd need to send in.
Once I get a story it's ba..."
If I didn't like the story I probably would have just pulled the book, based on lackluster sales, and moved on to my next one, but for the most part readers did seem to enjoy the story, and found it unique. Although it changes the book in a major way, it's taken only a couple of months, and since the story itself remains intact I thought it was worth the effort.
Once I get a story it's ba..."
If I didn't like the story I probably would have just pulled the book, based on lackluster sales, and moved on to my next one, but for the most part readers did seem to enjoy the story, and found it unique. Although it changes the book in a major way, it's taken only a couple of months, and since the story itself remains intact I thought it was worth the effort.
G.G. wrote: "If you don't want to make the ones who already bought your book mad, don't forget to specify it's a new edition of the same book though, less someone might buy it again thinking it's a sequel or so..."
If I made everyone who bought the book mad, it would hardly pull together enough people to make even a small mob scene. But I will indicate on the title page that it's a 2nd edition. Additionally, the blurb should also alert them that it's the same book since they'll already be familiar with the story. I will also offer, announced only here, a free copy of the ebook to anyone who bought the first one and wrote a review; just go to my website and click on the About/Contact tab and leave a note. Reviews posted after this don't count.
If I made everyone who bought the book mad, it would hardly pull together enough people to make even a small mob scene. But I will indicate on the title page that it's a 2nd edition. Additionally, the blurb should also alert them that it's the same book since they'll already be familiar with the story. I will also offer, announced only here, a free copy of the ebook to anyone who bought the first one and wrote a review; just go to my website and click on the About/Contact tab and leave a note. Reviews posted after this don't count.
Ken wrote: "Exactly. I assume that the right thruster/retro combination will accurately mimic a banking aircraft, it would just be more expensive with fuel and, on a practical level, pointless..."Given the freedom one has when translation and rotation are decoupled, I'd think you could have fun with the cross-product if your ship had significant angular momentum. Might be interesting for launching weapons or something. (Well, they pretty much need to be autonomous, so maybe not.)
BTW: Christina is correct. Even major changes to a book do not delete reviews on Amazon, unless you get a new ASIN (or ISBN). We released a 2nd edition of our second book this year to remove the extensive (140 pg) glossary at the back, which we put up as a free download in our website. Our reviews were not affected, but I don't know if owners got the option to update to the new edition for free. Suspect they didn't, but Amazon's method on that is unclear to me. (And we would not want people who liked the embedded glossary to lose it.)
Overall, the Kindle updating seems spotty. I haven't had great luck with it.
Mod
The only part that annoys me is that even if you repurchase, you get the old edition if the update wasn't pushed through.
Christina wrote: "The only part that annoys me is that even if you repurchase, you get the old edition if the update wasn't pushed through."That explains some weird behaviors I've noted. We have updated a few times to fix typos, but we've never requested they push an update through (I thought that happened automatically).
Ken wrote: "If I didn't like the story I probably would have just pulled the book, based on lackluster sales, and moved on to my next one, but for the most part readers did seem to enjoy the story, and found it unique. Although it changes the book in a major way, it's taken only a couple of months, and since the story itself remains intact I thought it was worth the effort."I don't worry about sales at present, diapers to change bottles to fix and a tiny demon to appease makes finding time to promote (and often enough time to write) interesting.
I suppose I handle reader input differently, as with my first two books reader questions prompted me to write the zeroth book (series starting point) before I could get the third installment finished.
I'd say as long as your basic story remains intact the rewrite can't hurt, though I dislike reading a good tale and years later find a rewrite offered that changes the flavor and quality of the original.
One example would be "Demon Seed", which I read back in high school. I read a bit about the second edition Koontz came out with, a rewrite that changed the story enough I'd rather not read the newer version. Sometimes that first idea is better, even if it just needs some TLC.
I remember one book I read in uni. The teacher started to talk about it in class and no one of the students knew what she was on about, because nothing she referred to was in the book we had read. This caused some confusion. Finally the mystery was resolved when someone read the foreword. The writer had never been happy with his book even though it had won some prize and he had got it published as a result. So when he had the chance he changed it so much that it was unrecognizable. Not sure if it was better as a result or not, never read the original.
Hákon wrote: "I remember one book I read in uni. The teacher started to talk about it in class and no one of the students knew what she was on about, because nothing she referred to was in the book we had read. ..."I've had that experience with books I've read and loved, and a later edition blew chunks. Having bought some re-released editions of books I read long ago, where the new publisher scanned in the old text without bothering to make certain the typography of the converted text was good or typos hadn't resulted during scanning, I've been left with a sour taste.
There are some books I'll look for on Ebay simply to find the edition I remember, even if a bit bedraggled and musty.
Well, I'm a little bit confused about the 2nd edition process. I uploaded the new edition in ebook form to both Smashwords and Amazon, and not a word was mentioned about it being a completely different book. On Createspace, I once tried to change just the font, altering the page count by a few dozen, and they indicated right away that I needed to count it as a new edition and get another ISBN. This time, even though the page count differs by more than a hundred, no mention was made of it. Maybe it takes time for it to filter into the system now, or maybe it doesn't matter any more. As I said, it's confusing.
If there's a spot for the book's description then that would be one place to let potential readers know.
I am also making the decision to yank one or both of my books and try to see about having them (professionally) edited. I posted my own thread about this so I would not commander this one. But Ken's question is a good one, and Createspace's behaviour is indeed inconsistent from his description.
Createspace offers books in print, however, which is a different beast to electronic. In electronic, so long as you have no earlier versions of the book being offered for sale, you can just alter the book as you please within certain boundaries. At least, that is how I understand it from Smashwords' words on the subject and how uploads of the books have worked for me. But in print, even a change of a few words means reprinting, redistribution, etc etc...
But inconsistency and confusion is a common thing in an unregulated and near-monopolised market, or so I have found.
Createspace offers books in print, however, which is a different beast to electronic. In electronic, so long as you have no earlier versions of the book being offered for sale, you can just alter the book as you please within certain boundaries. At least, that is how I understand it from Smashwords' words on the subject and how uploads of the books have worked for me. But in print, even a change of a few words means reprinting, redistribution, etc etc...
But inconsistency and confusion is a common thing in an unregulated and near-monopolised market, or so I have found.
Ken wrote: "Well, I'm a little bit confused about the 2nd edition process. I uploaded the new edition in ebook form to both Smashwords and Amazon, and not a word was mentioned about it being a completely diff..."My co-author uploaded a new edition of her fantasy novel to Createspace very recently, with a new cover. The interior was the same except that she had it re-edited to correct lingering typos. I assume it got a new ISBN (I thought a new cover requires that), but since we get those free from Createspace the process does not concern us. Nothing obvious changed on the product page -- not the publication date, or the reviews, or anything else.
Unless you are providing your own ISBN, it seems like to doesn't matter much. The second edition tracks the first, and if there are major changes, it's up to you to describe what they are for potential readers.
R.F.G. wrote: "If there's a spot for the book's description then that would be one place to let potential readers know."
I sold so few copies of the first edition I think it's better just to present it as is. It does say "second edition" on the Copyright page, with the date of publication given for the 1st one. The only reviews so far have been on Goodreads, and just 3 on Amazon, so I don't think that will hurt anything. No reviews have been left on any of the other markets I supply to. So maybe none of it matters. The story didn't really change; it's the same book, with the way of telling it altered somewhat.
Owen wrote: "Ken wrote: "Well, I'm a little bit confused about the 2nd edition process. I uploaded the new edition in ebook form to both Smashwords and Amazon, and not a word was mentioned about it being a com..."
Covers and minor changes don't require a new ISBN at Createspace (this is my 4th cover!) but page count is supposed to, according to my last attempt to do so. Maybe the policy has changed.
I sold so few copies of the first edition I think it's better just to present it as is. It does say "second edition" on the Copyright page, with the date of publication given for the 1st one. The only reviews so far have been on Goodreads, and just 3 on Amazon, so I don't think that will hurt anything. No reviews have been left on any of the other markets I supply to. So maybe none of it matters. The story didn't really change; it's the same book, with the way of telling it altered somewhat.
Owen wrote: "Ken wrote: "Well, I'm a little bit confused about the 2nd edition process. I uploaded the new edition in ebook form to both Smashwords and Amazon, and not a word was mentioned about it being a com..."
Covers and minor changes don't require a new ISBN at Createspace (this is my 4th cover!) but page count is supposed to, according to my last attempt to do so. Maybe the policy has changed.
I've been working on my 'magnum opus' since I was 19. (I'm 31 now, so that should give you an idea of how terrible it was when I first started it.) It's gone through many, many editings, the most current one being to try and shrink the word count. Charles Dickens, I am not.I used a prologue as a hook, but then my first chapter starts in a completely different setting. Maybe it's just me being dissatisfied with my own work, but the impact feels kind of uneven to me. Has anyone else had this problem? How did you address it?
K.B. wrote: "I've been working on my 'magnum opus' since I was 19. (I'm 31 now, so that should give you an idea of how terrible it was when I first started it.) It's gone through many, many editings, the most c..."I got the idea for our current series and wrote an initial short story for it so long ago I can't even remember what year it was. I actually started it as a contemporary thriller (as I think they call them) and then switched it to sci-fi. I think the initial idea was about 1988 and I wrote a first chapter then. The sci-fi short story was maybe '89 or '90. I fussed with it until the late 90s (97 or 98?), poked at it again in the early 2000s.
In late 2011, I got a co-author. In May 2013, we published the first book. Last month, we published the third. So some things just take time. You could say we address it by not addressing it, by which I mean I find the worrying at our writing never helps. When I'm dissatisfied with what I'm producing, I go do something else.
Our prologues always take place in a completely different setting than Ch.1 (part of why it’s a prologue). We've never thought that was a problem -- the tie-in is developed later. But then the "conventional wisdom" says we do everything wrong. So maybe it's best not to listen to me.
I think I stated earlier that one of the major changes I was making in my first book was to eliminate the prologue. I certainly haven't used one since. That's based mainly on hearing from a lot of readers (those who read my book with the prologue and those who didn't), and they seem to have fallen out of favor. In my case, it could've been just a bad prologue, but I think I'm put off them forever--or at least until I write a sequel that really requires one.
Ken wrote: "Covers and minor changes don't require a new ISBN at Createspace ..."You are quite correct. I seem to have been misinformed. I just checked the ISBN of the edition with the old cover against the current one and they are indeed the same. (The book's page count did not change at all.)
Owen wrote: "K.B. wrote: "I've been working on my 'magnum opus' since I was 19. (I'm 31 now, so that should give you an idea of how terrible it was when I first started it.) It's gone through many, many editing..."If 'collective wisdom' is responsible for giving us deep-fried butter and The Real Housewives of New Jersey, I think we're better being part of the unconventional wisdom. :)
I've been reading my story aloud to my boyfriend, so I'm waiting with baited breath to see if the tie-in will have the desired sucker-punch effect I was going for. I'll let you guys know.
Ken,I use Lulu for print, and after some research and practice getting Word 97 to output a reasonably professional typography, my page count changed by a bit, though the word count didn't change much. Same ISBNs, same covers, but a savings passed on to potential customers of roughly $4.50 per copy.
As far as prologues and epilogues go, it really depends on the book. An example being a prologue featuring a budding villain (age 12 or so) and an act of outrageous violence committed, and the first chapter is told from the POV of a victim decades later works, whereas sticking the old act of violence in at the beginning of the first chapter might cause confusion.
R.F.G. wrote: "Ken,
I use Lulu for print, and after some research and practice getting Word 97 to output a reasonably professional typography, my page count changed by a bit, though the word count didn't change ..."
I use Lulu for hardcover, Createspace for paperback. It seems to work for me. Are you saying that you saved $4.50 relative to the same book and page count on Createspace?
I know that prologues are often good and necessary, I just seek to avoid them because the particular readers I've encountered don't seem to like them. Epilogues are a different thing entirely; I used one in my latest book to good effect, and have had no complaints.
I use Lulu for print, and after some research and practice getting Word 97 to output a reasonably professional typography, my page count changed by a bit, though the word count didn't change ..."
I use Lulu for hardcover, Createspace for paperback. It seems to work for me. Are you saying that you saved $4.50 relative to the same book and page count on Createspace?
I know that prologues are often good and necessary, I just seek to avoid them because the particular readers I've encountered don't seem to like them. Epilogues are a different thing entirely; I used one in my latest book to good effect, and have had no complaints.
K.B. wrote: "If 'collective wisdom' is responsible for giving us deep-fried butter and The Real Housewives of New Jersey, I think we're better being part of the unconventional wisdom. :) I've been reading my story aloud to my boyfriend, so I'm waiting with baited breath to see if the tie-in will have the desired sucker-punch effect I was going for. I'll let you guys know..."
Quite so. I'm too old to care about "conventional wisdom" anyway.
For what it's worth, we (my co-author and I) read everything aloud. It helps us greatly. Do report how things turn out. : )
Can't resist a grumble about a specific epilogue. JKR's at the end of Book 7 was a clear ploy to prevent readers demanding further books in the series, but boy was it lame? It was the only thing she's written that was formulaic and dull.
Richard wrote: "Can't resist a grumble about a specific epilogue. JKR's at the end of Book 7 was a clear ploy to prevent readers demanding further books in the series..."JKR?
I assumed that meant the writer of the Harry Potter series, tho I never read it.
Ken wrote: "I assumed that meant the writer of the Harry Potter series, tho I never read it."Yes, that would fit. I started one, many years ago.
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Thinking about it though, I'm beginning to see the other side of it too: we're only used to thinking of reviews being set in stone forever because books themselves (fiction anyway) mostly were; but with eBooks even novels aren't any more, so why should reviews be? In fact, if an author gets a number of 2- and 1-star reviews, goes away and does a complete rewrite, brings it back, you withdraw your review - that's good isn't it? The world has ended up with a better book as a result (sounds suspiciously like Betterreads to me!) And it means there's now hope for authors everywhere too - of writing out of existence those annoying reviews! As an author I'm all for this of course, but as a reviewer I'm wondering (as I think a lot will) do I really want to (a) re-read the book, or (b) delete a review I may have taken a lot of trouble to write?
I'm in two minds on this (one of the main drawbacks of having two heads: you can always see both sides of an argument!)