Forgotten Vintage Children's Lit We Want Republished! discussion

These aren't really oddments but they're books by various authors mentioned in Brian Alderson's 100 Best Children's Books (2019). I thought it a shame that so many of the books on his list are out-of-print. If they're worth including in a list of best books, whatever one means by that, they're worth new editions.

A few notable ones that I don't think have been mentioned here:

Katherine Briggs. Hobberdy Dick.

Peter Dickinson. The Dancing Bear

Janni Howker. Martin Farrell

John Rowe Townsend. Gumble's Yard

Also, Alderson mentions that William Mayne left behind some very fine unpublished novels and short stories including a fifth Choir School novel and that there are plans to publish "this and several novels." I'd like to know more.

It's amazing that Gumble's Yard has been allowed to go out of print. As well as the hardback edition I remember it being a Puffin paperback. It was almost revolutionary in its day in moving away from holiday adventures in the country or at the seaside, often in Cornwall, and involving smugglers or spies.

Along that line of thought I would mention E.W. Hildick's Jim Starling books which showed that British school stories did not have to be set in boarding schools and now seem to have been forgotten.

Len wrote: "It's amazing that Gumble's Yard has been allowed to go out of print. As well as the hardback edition I remember it being a Puffin paperback. It was almost revolutionary in its day in moving away fr..."

I thought the same. It was in print about ten years ago. I was surprised by The Dancing Bear as well.

I just acquired a copy of Widdershins Crescent, the sequel to Gumble's Yard - I have heard about these for years in books similar to Alderson's, but rarely see them in person. I don't think Townsend ever got any notice in the U.S., but that is surely our loss.

I'm on the hunt for (cheap) hardcover copies of Mayne's Choir School books. I've got the first two. The rumor of a fifth is tantalizing.

I'm also hoping to stumble across affordable-but-nice copies of the Choir School series, but I'll settle for paperback! :) I don't have any yet - they can be quite scarce! :(

Michael wrote: "I just acquired a copy of Widdershins Crescent, the sequel to Gumble's Yard - I have heard about these for years in books similar to Alderson's, but rarely see them in person. I don't think Townsen..."

Yes, especially if it's set one generation on, as Alderson says it is. Given that he passes judgement on the manuscripts' quality he must have seen them. I would hope that the others will be in print again if and when.

Capn wrote: "I'm also hoping to stumble across affordable-but-nice copies of the Choir School series, but I'll settle for paperback! :) I don't have any yet - they can be quite scarce! :("

I got a very nice hardcover copy of A Swarm in May from WoB at a good price (cheap) but at the moment the rest are a bit pricey.

I've just noticed in my copy of Worzel Gummidge by Barbara Euphan Todd published in Oxford University Press' Children's Classics paperback series there is a list of other titles including two by John Rowe Townsend: Gumble's Yard and The Intruder. The book was published in 2001 so there must be a good chance of a few not too expensive copies turning up.

I liked The Intruder, which I have as a Lippincott hardcover.

Len wrote: "I've just noticed in my copy of Worzel Gummidge by Barbara Euphan Todd published in Oxford University Press' Children's Classics paperback series there is a list of ..."

There are loads of cheap paperbacks and the hardcovers are also reasonable. This is true for his other books as well. It would be a good time to collect him.

Thanks for the timely tip!

Michael wrote: "I just acquired a copy of Widdershins Crescent, the sequel to Gumble's Yard - I have heard about these for years in books similar to Alderson's, but rarely see them in person. I don't think Townsen..."

Widdershins Crescent appears to have been republished as "Goodbye to Gumble's Yard", which GR doesn't list, but which is much easier to source! :)
https://www.worldcat.org/title/16547188

BTW - I'll take any more of these "get while the getting's good" tips! ;) Much appreciated!

Capn wrote: "BTW - I'll take any more of these "get while the getting's good" tips! ;) Much appreciated!"

I don't spend a lot of time searching for children's books online and just happened to notice that Townsend's books seem affordable, especially to anyone living in the UK. You could probably snaffle them at thrift shops.

I'm in the Oxfam bookshop weekly daily. :S Terrible temptation!

Capn wrote: "I'm in the Oxfam bookshop weekly daily. :S Terrible temptation!"

As any sensible person would be.

Yeah, it's the "living in the UK" part that's holding me back. If only I had an enclave of older expats who were downsizing their libraries. Instead, we in the U.S. (at least my very cosmopolitan part) get an unending stream of James Patterson and Rick Riordan and occasionally something like an E. L. Konigsburg. Ex-library is the only real hope for UK-authored books and that is far from being a reliable source (plus it seems that all the weeding has already been done, so the days when you could find bags and bags of castoff treasure at the library booksale are gone).

It's also nigh on impossible to get a good fish and chips here.

Michael wrote: "Yeah, it's the "living in the UK" part that's holding me back. If only I had an enclave of older expats who were downsizing their libraries. Instead, we in the U.S. (at least my very cosmopolitan p..."

It's better in Canada but for those of us who live in the back of beyond it's thrift shops or buy online. I do hate paying more for postage than I pay for the books.

It's the potatoes. If you don't have the right potatoes the fish and chips will never be any good.

Sem wrote: "Michael wrote: "Yeah, it's the "living in the UK" part that's holding me back. If only I had an enclave of older expats who were downsizing their libraries. Instead, we in the U.S. (at least my ver..."

It's also lard. ALL of the chippies here proudly boast "beef drippings" and "finest quality lard" as the oil used! :O

Was a shock to this Canadian! (Where are the 'healthier' omega-polyunsaturates in THAT?!) XD

I once had to ask a grocery store staff member for lard in Switzerland, and the lovely guy said, "No no no! It is death! It is bad for the heart! You must use coconut! This is healthier! Much better!"
"Yes, but for Yorkshire puddings, I specifically-"
"No no no! Ask doctors! Is no good! No no! Here - this one is better!"

I gave up and went to another store. XD

Capn wrote: "Sem wrote: "Michael wrote: "Yeah, it's the "living in the UK" part that's holding me back. If only I had an enclave of older expats who were downsizing their libraries. Instead, we in the U.S. (at ..."

The Swiss are wrong about lard. It isn't as bad as we were led to believe when our mothers were inveigled into switching to vegetable shortening. Beef-dripping is the tastiest but was rare for f and c when I was in the UK. For Yorkshire pudding, dripping all the way.

It's all beef-dripping up here in Yorkshire. :)

Fish and Chips are so fatty that you can draw lymph post-ingestion and actually SEE circulating fat micelles!! XD If you're going to eat that crap, you might as well have full beef-dripping and fully enjoy it, because it's not good for you regardless, and 'better' for you is kind of a moot point. Life is short. Too short for 'healthy, low-fat cookies', too. Just eat less of them or half of one, but why compromise on taste?! Drives me nuts. Would rather have 1 proper cookie a month than daily healthful alternatives that taste of fibre and flax seeds. :p

As usual, if you don't eat it very often...! :)

Bought cookies aren't what they used to be. The flavour and texture aren't the same. Digestive biscuits - ruined now. Lard isn't healthy but it's healthier than some other fats. Suet... Yum. But yeah, it's all about moderation.

I unfortunately live within easy striking distance of M&S Foods. Those cookies...! <3 Yet another temptation!! XD

This thread has gotten nicely off-topic. Always the sign of success. XD

M&S has always been a temptation. I wish they hadn't closed in Canada.

Indeed. Some people go wild when I leave OT comments. "But that's not what I was talking about." "No, but it's what I'm talking about."

Hold on a sec. Is there a list for books about cookies/biscuits? Must be with all those gingerbread people running around.

Theoretically one can find the occasional British biscuit in a grocery store here, but at $10 for 6 cookies or some such exorbitancy, I just can't. Instead I'll go old school and do a batch of hob nobs myself. Tried jaffa cakes once, but it wasn't the same.

Sorry for the digestable digression. It was lunch time. That's my excuse.

Trying to steer back - I have to say, I'm frustrated that I can't even get a look inside at that Brian Alderson book over here. Although I enjoy his commentary, I'd just like first to know what makes his list. There's the similarly-titled American 100 Best Books for Children by Anita Silvey, and I own 90% of that canon, but I figure there might be a chance to learn about something new from the Alderson list.

I could make a list for it here.

I'm on the app, but there's definitely a "Gingerbread Man and derivatives" list. Not sure about Jaffa cakes, Hob Nobs and the rest, though! XD

Michael - there's a business opportunity out there, isn't there, for someone in the UK to source and ship* books trans-Atlantic. *Shipping rates are going to stymie it, methinks.

One tip I can give is that alibris prices shipping rates (variable) better than Abebooks (fixed at a max weight of 2kg, for example!). So if you can find it on Abebooks, it's often worth contacting the seller via alibris, if they have both. ;)

The other shame is, of course, that OpenLibrary scans what it gets, which is books circulating in the USA. So it doesn't have much in the way of vintage British fiction, unless it's a classic which you could probably find readily enough.

There was another thread here on paperback exchanges over FB (I think Charlotte? But I'm on the app and can't check). I said I'd be happy to organize exchanges on here as well, if necessary. We could always set up wishlists of books to keep an eye out for? Again, it's shipping costs that are so problematic.

Cap'n: It cuts both ways. Valancourt Books was complaining on Twitter about no one buying one of their paperbacks. i

Crap. Stupid app. I looked at the book and found that it was for sale to US customers only. I sat on my hands because it's not Valancourt's fault.

Yeah, no - one thing I've learned from living in 3 disparate countries is that the international postal union makes sure that it's expensive no matter where you're sending it from..! :S

I'm not convinced that Amazon wants to sell books. They don't make it easy. And copyright issues with respect to what's available and where is another problem. That's why the Valancourt book can't be purchased here. Maybe an older UK edition but it looks as if it might have gone out of print. And postage - don't get me started. I spent ages juggling copies of a book on Abe. $15 postage from one seller, $9 from another, different prices for copies in comparable condition blah blah. In the end I chose the $15 book with $9 postage from a reputable seller. Who knows when I'll get it. I swear it was easier when you had your local bookshop do it all for you

Where I see the opportunity is for someone in the UK to partner with Internet Archive/Open Library and get all those good old British books scanned. It would benefit far more than just one lucky purchaser. I mean, the BL has everything, but their whole operation has been crippled for the past week or so due to cyberattack. IA scans could really help in filling that gap. And no postage necessary.

We've got Bookshop.org in the UK, which, in theory, allows you to order whichever in print book you'd like for purchase via your friendly, local, independent bookshop (who I try to support. No WH Smith for me!).

And it just hasn't worked out for me! Ever! I just end up ordering from Blackwell's. :(

I've mentioned it before, but I really love The Children's Bookshop (Hay on Wye) for used books. One of the last true independent booksellers, it feels like. And they are always at or exceeding expectations.

I've always wanted to visit Hay on Wye. I'm scared to visit the shop in person and have a bad experience or something. XD

Michael wrote: "Where I see the opportunity is for someone in the UK to partner with Internet Archive/Open Library and get all those good old British books scanned. It would benefit far more than just one lucky pu..."

Oh dear! I hadn't heard about that attack! :(

Sem wrote: "I'm not convinced that Amazon wants to sell books. They don't make it easy. And copyright issues with respect to what's available and where is another problem. That's why the Valancourt book can't ..."

If Amazon wanted to sell books, they'd have either kept Book Depository running or at least kept up their shipping set-up. I guess it wasn't cost effective.. though it sure seemed to be to the founders... I think there may be something conspiratorial there. Reprehensible.

Capn wrote: "Sem wrote: "I'm not convinced that Amazon wants to sell books. They don't make it easy. And copyright issues with respect to what's available and where is another problem. That's why the Valancourt..."

The loss of Book Depository has made a difference to me. I've been buying books from WoB instead. I'd rather have secondhand anyway. Now that our bus service has improved I hope to get to Russell Books in the not too distant future.

I used to use abebooks quite a bit, but have noticed a marked downturn in quality of seller. I was recently looking for a vintage 70s book, to complete a set, and was willing to spend quite a bit, but almost every seller I reached out to couldn't give me specifics about the condition of copies they had for sale, because they were living in a different state from their warehouse. And I guess no one at the warehouse could be asked? I'll take a chance on a $5 book, but if you're charging $175, I expect you to be able to give me specifics! Very frustrating.

Abigail wrote: "I used to use abebooks quite a bit, but have noticed a marked downturn in quality of seller. I was recently looking for a vintage 70s book, to complete a set, and was willing to spend quite a bit, ..."

When I buy collectable books on Abebooks I only use sellers who provide photographs of their book, and not a photograph that just shows the dustjacket design. Though I did buy a Frances Hardinge book from a seller called World of Books which usually deals in cheap paperbacks, often ex-school library copies, and what they sent me was a hardback first edition signed by the author. I suppose some member of their staff had just been refused a pay rise that day.

Len wrote: "Abigail wrote: "I used to use abebooks quite a bit, but have noticed a marked downturn in quality of seller. I was recently looking for a vintage 70s book, to complete a set, and was willing to spe..."

I buy from World of Books through Amazon and although they use a generic photo every book has been as described or better. On the one occasion I didn't get the book it was because it was in poor shape and they didn't send it. For Abebooks I buy from long-established, reputable, specialist sellers who don't overcharge for postage.

Capn mentioned above the facebook group to sell/swap our sort of books (it had girls in the group name, but boys books welcome too) please join! https://www.facebook.com/groups/69364...

Michael wrote: "Theoretically one can find the occasional British biscuit in a grocery store here, but at $10 for 6 cookies or some such exorbitancy, I just can't. Instead I'll go old school and do a batch of hob ..."

Adams, Richard. Watership Down
Aiken, Joan. Wolves of Willoughby Chase, The
Alcott, Louisa May. Little Women [Part One]
Andersen, H. C. Snow Queen, The
Avery, Gillian. Warden’s Niece, The
Bagnold, Enid. Alice and Thomas and Jane
Barrie, J. M. Peter Pan
Baum, Frank. Wonderful Wizard of Oz, The
Bawden, Nina. Carrie’s War
Bianco, Margery W. Poor Cecco
Blake, Quentin. Clown
Branford, Henrietta. Fire Bed And Bone
Briggs, Katharine. Hobberdy Dick
Bunyan, John. Pilgrim’s Progress, The
Burnett, Frances H. A Little Princess
Carroll, Lewis. Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland
Collodi, Carlo. Pinocchio
Cranch, Christopher P. Huggermugger Stories, The
Crompton, Richmal. Just – William
d’Aulnoy, Comtesse. Tales of the Fairys
Dahl, Roald. Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
de la Mare, Walter Three Mulla-Mulgars, The
Defoe, Daniel. Robinson Crusoe
Dickinson, Peter. Dancing Bear, The
Edgeworth, Maria. Parent’s Assistant, The
Ewing, Juliana Horatia Lob Lie-by-the-Fire
Fairfax-Lucy, Brian. Children of the House, The
Falkner, John Meade. Moonfleet
Farmer, Penelope Charlotte Sometimes
Fielding, Sarah. Governess, The
Forest, Antonia. Autumn Term
Fox, Paula. Slave Dancer, The
Garfield, Leon. Black Jack
Garner, Alan Elidor
Gilbert, Henry. Robin Hood
Grahame, Kenneth. Wind in the Willows, The
Hart, Elizabeth Anna. Runaway, The
Heath Robinson, W. Adventures of Uncle Lubin, The
Hoban, Russell. Mouse and his Child, The
Howker, Janni. Martin Farrell
Hughes, Ted Iron Man, The
Hughes, Thomas. Tom Brown’s School Days
Jansson, Tove. Finn Family Moomintroll
Jefferies, Richard. Bevis: The Story of a Boy
Johns, W. E. Camels Are Coming, The
Jones, Giles. History of Little Goody Two-Shoes, The
Kästner, Eric Emil and the Detectives
Kerr, Judith. When Hitler Stole Pink Rabbit
Kingsley, Charles. Water-Babies, The
Kipling, Rudyard. Puck of Pook’s Hill
Le Guin, Ursula A. Wizard of Earthsea
Lewis, C. S. Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, The
Lindsay, Norman. Magic Pudding, The
MacDonald, George. Princess and the Goblin, The
Mark, Jan. Thunder and Lightnings
Marryat, Frederick. Children of the New Forest, The
Masefield, John. The Midnight Folk
Mayne, William A Swarm in May
Milne, A. A. Winnie-the-Pooh
Montgomery, L. M. Anne of Green Gables
Nesbit, E. Story of the Treasure Seekers, The
Norton, Mary. Borrowers, The
Pearce, Philippa. Battle of Bubble and Squeak, The
Peyton, K. M. Flambards
Picard, Barbara L. Ransom for a Knight
Potter, Beatrix. Tailor of Gloucester, The
Pratchett, Terry. Truckers
Pullman, Philip His Dark Materials: Northern Lights
Pyle, H. & K. Wonder Clock, The
Ransome, Arthur Swallows and Amazons
Reed, Talbot Baines. Fifth Form at St. Dominic’s, The
Rowling, J. K. Harry Potter and the Philosopher’s Stone
Ruskin, John King of the Golden River, The
Saint-Exupéry, A. de. Little Prince, The
Serraillier, Ian Silver Sword, The
Sewell, Anna. Black Beauty: the Autobiography of a Horse
Sinclair, Catherine. Holiday House
Smith, Dodie. Hundred and One Dalmatians, The
Spyri, Johanna. Heidi
Stevenson, R. L. Kidnapped
Streatfeild, Noel. Ballet Shoes
Stretton, Hesba Jessica’s First Prayer
Sutcliff, Rosemary. Eagle of the Ninth, The
Swift, Jonathan. Gulliver’s Travels
Tarn, W. W. Treasure of the Isle of Mist, The
Thackeray, W.M. Rose and the Ring, The
Thurber, James. Thirteen Clocks and The Wonderful O, The Tolkien, J. R. R. Hobbit: or there and back again, The
Townsend, J. R. Gumble’s Yard
Twain, Mark Adventures of Tom Sawyer, The
Uttley, Alison' A Traveller in Time
Verne, Jules. Journey to the Centre of the Earth
Westall, Robert. Kingdom by the Sea, The
White, E. B. Charlotte’s Web
White, T. H. Sword in the Stone, The
Wilder, L. I. Little House in the Big Woods
Williams, U. M. Adventures of the Little Wooden Horse, The Wilson, Jacqueline. Story of Tracy Beaker, The
Wyss, Johann D. Swiss Family Robinson, The
Yonge, Charlotte. Little Duke, The

Many thanks for your generous typing! There are quite a few on there that I've never seen on such a short list. Also some interesting choices for particular authors, where I would have expected a different title to have been the one chosen as representative.

I'm going to scrutinize this - thanks again!

So I own 76% of that list. Of the 24 I lack, 13 are more than 100 years old (not my main area of collecting, and likely available digitally). Of the rest, there are a number that are on my shopping list and just a few that I wouldn't want at all (I'm looking at you, Tracy Beaker).

It's quite a good set, though I'm shocked to see Philippa Pearce represented by The Battle of Bubble and Squeak and not by Tom's Midnight Garden (or at least Minnow on the Say). Similarly, Leon Garfield's Smith would be my choice over Black Jack. I might push for The Jungle Book over Pook and for Treasure Island over Kidnapped.

But I trust that Alderson carefully considered these options and makes his case in the text. To each his own.

There are some absent authors, perhaps mostly American, but overall I'd feel pretty good about handing this list to any prospective children's librarian (or editor) as mandatory reading. Quite different from the NY Public Library's 100, which had more than a third from 1990 and later and didn't go any farther back than 1926.

Michael wrote: "So I own 76% of that list. Of the 24 I lack, 13 are more than 100 years old (not my main area of collecting, and likely available digitally). Of the rest, there are a number that are on my shopping..."

He admits that some of his choices are 'perverse' but he explains why he made them. This list reflects his interest in the early period and in illustration and since I share those interests I liked that about it but not everyone will want to read the older works. Including too many recent books is one of the problems with lists in general. I'm rather sorry that he included Harry Potter but it was inevitable.

Michael wrote: "Many thanks for your generous typing! There are quite a few on there that I've never seen on such a short list. Also some interesting choices for particular authors, where I would have expected a d..."

I meant to create a Listopia list but GR swallowed it up. This is just a copy/paste from the index otherwise they'd be in chronological order. Here's his list of runner-ups.

"Suggesting as we did in the introduction, that our one hundred might have been confined to players whose work had arrived only in the twentieth century, we find waiting in the pavilion the following players who did not make it to the first team. The list is a strong one and many spectators may regret that some of them were not initially selected.

1902 P.G.Wodehouse The Pothunters. A.& C. Black
1903 Jack London The Call of the Wild. New York, Macmillan
1917 Dorothy Canfield Understood Betsy. New York, Holt
1920 Hugh Lofting The Story of Dr Dolittle. il. author. New York, Stokes
1921 Mary Tourtel The Adventures of Rupert the Little Lost Bear. il.author. Nelson
1925 S.G.Hulme Beaman The Road to Toytown. il. author. Oxford University Press
1933 Norman Hunter The Incredible Adventures of Professor Branestawm. il W.Heath Robinson. John Lane
1934 Patricia Lynch The Turf-Cutter’s Donkey il. Jack B.Yeats. Dent
1934 Pamela Travers Mary Poppins. il. Mary Shepard. Collins / New York: Reynal
1936 M.E.Atkinson August Adventure. il. Harold Jones. Jonathan Cape
1936 Barbara Euphan Todd Worzel Gummidge. Burns Oates
1937 Eve Garnett The Family from One End Street. il. author. Muller
1937 J.B.S.Haldane My Friend Mr Leakey. il.Leonard Rosoman. Cresset Press
1937 Katharine Hull & Pamela Whitlock The Far-Distant Oxus. il. PW. Jonathan Cape
1938 Enid Blyton The Secret Island. Oxford, Basil Blackwell
1939 C.Walter Hodges Columbus Sails. il. author. George Bell
1939 Hilda Lewis The Ship that Flew. il. Nora Lavrin. Oxford University Press
1939 Violet Needham The Black Riders. il.Anne Bullen. Collins
1940 Eric Knight Lassie Come-Home. il. Marguerite Kirmse. Philadelphia: Winston
1940 Geoffrey Trease. Cue for Treason. Oxford: Basil Blackwell
1943 Esther Forbes Johnnie Tremain. Boston: Houghton Mifflin
1943 Malcolm Saville Mystery at Witchend. Newnes
1944 Eric Linklater The Wind on the Moon. il. Nicolas Bentley. Macmillan
1947 Monica Edwards Wish for a Pony. il.Anne Bullen. Collins
1948 C.Day Lewis The Otterbury Incident. il. Edward Ardizzone. Putnam
1950 Anthony Buckeridge Jennings Goes to School. Il. S.van Abbé. Collins
1958 Michael Bond A Bear Called Paddington. il. Peggy Fortnum. Collins

Some good books on the list, though I would definitely consider The Secret Garden a better book than A Little Princess. Also how can anyone have a list of 100 best children’s books that doesn’t include Stig of the Dump?