J.D. Robb discussion

Next up in our In Death Buddy Read is Kindred in Death, another heart-wrenching book. Whether you are reading the series for the first time or taking part as you reread, we hope you'll join us.

When the newly promoted captain of the NYPSD and his wife return a day early from their vacation, they were looking forward to spending time with their bright and vivacious sixteen-year-old daughter who had stayed behind.

Not even their worst nightmares could have prepared them for the crime scene that awaited them instead. Brutally murdered in her bedroom, Deena's body showed signs of trauma that horrified even the toughest of cops; including our own Lieutenant Eve Dallas, who was specifically requested by the captain to investigate.

When the evidence starts to pile up, Dallas and her team think they are about to arrest their perpetrator; little do they know yet that someone has gone to great lengths to tease and taunt them by using a variety of identities. Overconfidence can lead to careless mistakes. But for Dallas, one mistake might be all she needs to bring justice.

I plan to start Kindred sometime next week. This is a heart-breaker and yet another favorite of mine.

Another one of my favorites.

This one is special, isn't it?

It really is, despite how awful the crime.

I'll wait a bit. Maybe start this weekend.

I'd start it today if I could...just can't do it yet. I am so behind on everything in March.

I have taken a trip down memory lane and picked up Naked again, but I'll be able to start Kindred in a day or two

Ahhh Loriidae - that's awesome. I've read Naked several times - in fact, I reread the first 3 every once in awhile...just to remember the beginning.

Yeah me too, I remember the first time, was May 2004 (a desperately needed escape at the time) and numerous times since then. It's a comfort novel for me, an old friend...

I will start next week. This is a tough murder in this book but I remember the sting and I love that old couple.

Loriidae wrote: "I have taken a trip down memory lane and picked up Naked again, but I'll be able to start Kindred in a day or two"

Best comfort book for me as well. I started reading this series out of order , looking for the first one in book exchanges. Eventually got a decent paying job and bought it on line. And thus started my love hate relationship with online shopping.

Anyway when I first read it I just couldn't put it down. And my love of Eve and Roarke began in earnest

just love that Roarke says he's got work when their day get interrupted. He doesn't continue doing nothing. And Eve making sure he doesn't just work because she has too. Ahhh !

Michelle wrote: "just love that Roarke says he's got work when their day get interrupted. He doesn't continue doing nothing. And Eve making sure he doesn't just work because she has too. Ahhh !"

I love that too. It makes me wonder if Summerset tries to get Roarke to do something off page. We know that Roarke didn't celebrate Christmas until Eve. I'm wondering if he really took vacations. He traveled a lot for business but I'm not sure he took real vacations. From what we know I think he took his love interest and mixed business and pleasure.

It is interesting to see how Eve immediately switches into cop mode. There isn't any animosity when the chief calls her out of rotation. I spent many years on-call and I can tell you that there are times when I cussed up a blue streak when I am called out of order. Eve is my hero.

Sharon I remember Summerset and Roarke talking about the subject in a abstract sort of way. That Roarke never enjoyed the holidays and vacations, just went through the motions as it were, with the latest belle. Work ,and I think accumulation of money , was everything until Eve.

Also what struck me was that Eve asked Summerset. They are so forming a formidable bond!! It's creeping in more and more often. Okay yes with Roarke as the centre but in the beginning I never thought that this could happen.

It always amaze me that Eve can work a case like this. Yes I know all the pros and cons , what Eve thinks of as pros and cons. But after all is said and done it still is a tough case when violent rape is involved. And again Peabody new here somewhat.

Missed Jamie in the last book high I thought of as a mini reunion of previous characters. Just to catch up p, I'm sure ;-).

Eve goes to Alabama. Always good for a laugh.

LOL Yes, it is!

Eve really building all her credits. ;-))

I'm also wondering about Charles. I wonder if he's nervous at all.

Interesting scene when Eve & Peabody go to see Jamie because he knew the victim. Eve's thoughts - realizing that Jamie has "grown up" on her...last time she saw him, he looked like a boy, now she describes him as a man. And she learns that Roarke has been help finance his education. Loved her thoughts as the things Jamie said, did, and the way he could control the emotions that would show on his face confirmed in her mind that he will make a great cop.

I really liked this scene, too, Sandra. Jamie matured very nicely and Roarke's interest in him was a surprise but I guess I should have figured he'd do something like this.

Eve's thoughts on understanding how Deena fell hook, line, & sinker for this guy was intriguing...she says she understands because of the way she fell for Roarke, a man she knew was dangerous. And yet, he slipped completely under her defenses. She was lucky, this girl was not.

I knew that Roarke would keep his eyes on Jamie but never thought he would go it this route. Not only with the scholarship but have a keen interest in his studies. And all while knowing that in the end Jamie is determined to become a cop. but then again this is Roarke. He is a entity unto himself.
I sometimes secretly hope that Jamie doesn't become a cop but goes into the private sector. ;-).
That was intriguing Sandra. And so true. But I think Roarke slipped through like a steamroller. He didn't allow for anything else.
Eve for me has some ,surprising to herself , insights into friendship, relationship, marriage and to a lesser extent , herself in this book.

Once again, relationships are big in this book. Eve & Roarke, of course...but I loved the scene where Eve stops by Louise's (out of obligation) but ends up not only inviting her to stay the night before her wedding at Eve's, but encouraging her to have a "girl's night" which we know Eve is not fond of, or at least doesn't understand. And she issues the invite knowing that Trina will be there!! haha Our Eve is definitely growing into relationships, friendships, & learning to not only accept them but to extend her hand also.

But the best part was her calming advise to Louise. And then later at the wedding thinking of her own. She really is getting better at the friendship thing.

Love how her thoughts turned to her & Roarke's wedding...and how they discussed it later.

I also think it speaks volumes of how far they have come that they can openly discuss Roarke killing the men who abused Marlena. They talk about it & Eve even asks questions about what he felt, was it revenge, etc. And not once do you hear her thinking that he was wrong or anything like that. Again, I think it just shows how far they've come...how far Eve has come.

I agree Sandra. She really is growing.

I can't leave this one without mentioning how good the "bad" cop, Peabody, is!! She was magnificent in the interrogation of D.P., slamming back her chair & letting him know they had him cold...showing him the vid of him with Deena, etc. And doesn't she just love playing bad cop!?! haha

And finally, what a beautiful wedding. The scene before in the "bridal suite" and Eve helping Louise put on her dress. And of course, the memories as she walks down the aisle with eyes on Roarke. Just lovely.

One of my favorite scenes in the book involve the grandmother who helped capture this creep. She was wonderful.

I also liked the investigation in this one quite a bit. It seemed like it was dogged police work to get this done. And, the college president and Eve's interaction was really interesting.

I agree...Peaches & Eve's interaction was very interesting. And once again, Roarke is pretty deeply involved in the solving of this, right along beside Eve most of the way. The investigation was methodical with no stone left unturned. But what a fiasco at the funeral by the cop/s with the leaked photo of the suspect. Yet, Eve steps up & shoulders the blame. And yes...what a gutsy grandmother! Love her.

One thing I question is why DP's dad (if he was) even cared about revenge. He clearly threw her to the wolves more than once. He didn't love her and he knows done of it was the fault of the officers involved. I get that he & the son both were psycho but seriously...years of planning & training the boy, all driven by revenge?! I know why DP thought that - he'd been programmed his whole life but why did V. care enough to do that...

Here's my theory. Vance was a user and never was one to accept responsibility. I think in his own twisted way he felt guilty for having caused Illya's death. Rather than deal, he had this impressionable mind that he could shape any way he wanted to and convinced himself that everyone else but him was at fault. He didn't care about Drew either because he didn't have the capacity. I think the loss he felt about Illya was only that his worshipper was gone.

I also loved that moment in Interview when Eve was starting to lose it and she places her hand on the glass, gaining strength from Roarke by just imagining him being there. Unbeknownst to her...he was there.

YES! Loved that...and she told Roarke later that she felt his presence & it calmed her.

Maybe you're right about Vance...like I said, the thought that crossed my mind was Why? He didn't seem to be capable of remorse to me, as he betrayed & used her time & again. And I did feel a moment's sorrow for a little 4 year old boy left in his evil care...but not the psycho he grew into.

So - is evil in the genes? Or the atmosphere/circumstances you're raised in? Why are some shaped/consumed by the evil they are either born into or raised in and others who begin life in similar circumstances are able to pull away & make a good life?

Oh, I think it's circumstance and environment. Vance used that little boy's love for his mother to manipulate him and he was really, really good at using people.

I haven't had a lot of time to jump on but I'm wondering I see you mention "peach" but does she rub anyone the wrong way or is it just me. I get that she is keeping Roarke on the line for future donations but there is something about her. Eve has more patience with Roarke then I would have. Of course she is more sure of their relationship then I I would be.

I also love how Roarke grounds Eve and brings her back to the present. They are so perfect for each other.

Roarke and Jamie. He is taking over the father role in a way.

Yes, a little bit Sharon. There's just a hint that she would like something more from Roarke or something. I did bristle just a little when I read her scenes.

So you asked genes or circumstances Sandra. ive been trying to answer that but as we've read in this series alone not just one thing could be responsible. I think that is one of those questions that can swing either way depending on a lot of facts. At least thats what's occurred to me trying to answered that question. I kept having a but or if creeping into a definitive answer.

Charlie being part of the capture of DP was interesting. I was feeling that he really is left out.

I'm in agreement with you Michelle. I do think it's a mixture of genes & environment. And I believe that some people, for whatever reason, are just strong enough to fight their way out...they are survivors, they rise above the circumstances of their birth & early years and fight for the person they want to be. While others succumb to it.

You believe evil can be passed genetically?

Jonetta wrote: "You believe evil can be passed genetically?"

I don't think that evil is passed genetically. Personally, I think it is an easy excuse like "the devil made me do it". I get the impression that Robb is trying to show that we all have the ability to rise above our circumstances and those who don't are highlighted in these books as being more abnormal than normal.

Eve and Roarke always stand as the biggest example but there are others. There are too many people raised in good homes who go bad. Why is that? IMO

And then there is the reverse of that. People born into good home and healthy surrounding but do evil.

I don't know Jonetta. Is it possible that we are born with the gene to do violence? I think of it as we are all born with the cancer cells but we don't all become sick. Yet at the same time violence is not evil. That I think is were your growing up factors in. We are all taught, I hope , right from wrong as children. Maybe it comes down to strength of character?

I don't believe there's that kind of gene, more those that might be related to genetic brain disorder that would produce unpredictable or violent action. It just doesn't make scientific sense that you can genetically inherit this kind of nature.

Maybe you are right Jonetta. I suppose it comes down to other things. Not genetics.

They've tried to identify a gene that makes people evil for years. Every time they think they find it another study shows the gene is in people who aren't evil. There are still mysteries that can't be explained.

It's not that I believe evil can be passed genetically - I don't think so given just the genes...it's more like the predisposition for it to manifest itself given the right environment that I wonder about. I'm a pretty strong believer in life being what we make it - in spite of our genes and/or environment, not because of them. Life is about choices...are we predisposed to choose one way or the other? Or is it all free will? Those things, I wonder about.

What would make someone predisposed to evil if not environmentally caused? A specific type personality or nature?

Certain personality types? Hmmmm...interesting. Part of me thinks that's a possibility. I bet there's been studies done. I think it's easy to accept environment as the cause of one becoming a person who enjoys doing bad things...evil, if you will. But then, why do some people raised the same way grow up to be good, honest productive adults?

It raises questions for me when you flip the situation...as in, a child from a good loving home who commits evil deeds...no evil in the genes & a great, nurturing environment to grow up in - what causes a person like that to turn out to be a psycho? Is there just something within that person, no matter their genes or environment, that triggers them to perform hideous acts?

My sister in I grew up in the same household, same parents, same experiences but we responded to things so differently. There are so many factors within an environment that can influence behavior beyond family (school, friends, neighbors, babysitters, extended family). Psychologist theorize that you're formed behaviorally by the time you're seven years old. I've participated in quite a few workshops based on this theory and the results were extraordinary. I could point to specific events that I made mean something and my behavior going forward was couched in the opinion I formed.

I had a conversation with my sister recently about an event that happened when we were younger. It was a momentous one for me, shaping me profoundly and she doesn't even remember it.

I cringe every time genetic predisposition is suggested for any kind of behavior as we have a history of behaving badly around that concept. It was the basis for Adolph Hitler's theories, as well as some really hideous practices in this country in the early 20th century related to mental health.

As you can tell, I feel pretty strongly about the genetic association to abhorrent behavior. No one has ever been able to prove a connection and some nasty tests have been conducted trying to prove it.

This is an interesting discussion. Nature vs. nurture. I read a lot of articles and watch shows debating the issue too.

I know people who had everything, good parents, great siblings, financially well off, etc. and turned out to be the scum of the earth. I also know people raised in poverty with parents who didn't take time to fix them a meal and they are the perfect role model and best friend. I don't understand how it happens and I wish I did. I do think there are more people who take the good path as opposed to the evil one. It is just that evil gets more publicity.

I agree, Sharon. I also know some personal examples of both.

Jonetta, My sister & I were also raised the same but are very, very different people and we remember some events differently for sure. I think most would say we're both good people but we have different views on some things and have different ideas about what's most important in our lives.

Anyway...interesting discussion. Though I didn't mean to lead us away from Kindred. Reading it just led me to thinking about these things.