Victorians! discussion

Hi everyone! Welcome to the first weak of Desperate Remedies by Thomas Hardy.

Chapter 1:

The story begins with a tragic note. Ambrose Graye, having lost his first love, Cytherea, was an unhappy man throughout his life. He was incapable of love although he married a woman of means and had two children. He was even incapable of managing his affairs and was in heavy debt. The tragedy is finalized with his tragic demise, and this gives the story a sense of foreboding.
The chapter introduces Ambrose Graye's son and daughter, Owen and Cytherea (named after his lost love) and describes in detail the difficult position in which they were situated.

Chapter 2:

Cytherea and Owen leave home and relocate themselves. Owen finds a small position with a local architect. Cytherea decides to advertise herself for a governess post.
A new character is introduced - Edward Springrove. From the amount of description bestowed on him, he's sure to be a major character in the story. Cytherea and Edward meet, and each one entertains warm feelings regarding the other.

Chapter 3:

Edward Springrove has decided to leave for London to try his fortune as an architect. On the eve of the day before he leaves, he meets Cytherea. They go on a boat excursion, and there he declares their mutual love sealing it with a kiss. Despite it all, there seems a mystery surrounding Edward which he doesn't disclose to Cytherea. They don't agree on any form of communication either. Cytherea is distressed. It's to be hoped that Cytherea may not face a similar to that of her father.
Cytherea and Owen's position is still precarious. Owen fears he might not be extended after the initial two months that was promised. And Cytherea's advertisement didn't produce any results. Finally, Cytherea puts a fresh advertisement for a lady's maid position.

The story is surrounded by mystery and gloom. But Hardy's characteristic wordplay with its beautiful phrases and metaphors strike in contrast to the gloom and unease pervading the story. The characters so far introduced are quite interesting. I already like Cytherea and Edward and hope they will be united. :) These are my first impressions. What are yours?

Hi everyone.
I did read chapters 1 to 3 and find the story interesting. I am curious to learn why the first Cytherea decline the marriage proposal from Ambrose Graye. It is also interesting to see that there were harsh judgments against Hardy for having written a novel! I think I have read one book from Hardy (Tess D’Urberville) but it was a long time ago.

It was wild that the failed romance ended up creating such a dark cloud over the father's entire life. So far neither of the children are terribly interesting or smart or ambitious. It will be interesting to see where they land in life.

Dianne wrote: "It was wild that the failed romance ended up creating such a dark cloud over the father's entire life. So far neither of the children are terribly interesting or smart or ambitious. It will be inte..."

I agree with you that for now the children are not terribly interesting. In fact I found neither of them 'endearing' even though their fate for now is quite sad.

I found this opening a bit choppy-I paused for a couple of days after ch one and found it hard to remember or get back into the novel after.

I rather like Cytherea and Owen so far, though I agree there is not much really about them-it does feel as if Hardy is still finding his feet as an author. I am surprised that Cytherea has gone so quickly to offering to work as a lady's maid-that is quite a come down and will rather banish her from even their precarious position now.

three chapters with two aborted love affairs - that is quite something. Does it establish the pattern or the overall theme of the novel?

I like Hardy's language: fragmentary, impressionistic at times. The dialogues end up a bit weird and incoherent in this technique,

sabagrey wrote: "three chapters with two aborted love affairs - that is quite something. Does it establish the pattern or the overall theme of the novel?

I like Hardy's language: fragmentary, impressionistic at t..."

I think it establishes the pattern for Hardy’s overall oeuvre 😁

Frances wrote: "I found this opening a bit choppy-I paused for a couple of days after ch one and found it hard to remember or get back into the novel after.

I rather like Cytherea and Owen so far, though I agree ..."

I quite agree with you. Being the first novel, we can see that Hardy is still trying to find his way.

I agree that there is nothing specifically mentioned for us to make Owen and Cytherea too interesting, but for my part, I still like them. However, I think I like Edward more. I get a hunch that he will play a significant part in the story. (Of course, I may be wrong :) )

Well, it seemed to take for ever to get to Budmouth.

For me, most of the first two chapters were unnecessarily overblown and repetitive. It was as if Hardy was practising his literary style before he settled down into some sort of rhythm. I became a little distracted beyond the main elements of the plot.

Hardy has described the superficial elements of his characters (ie their outward appearances) in detail, but we have learned very little of their inner selves. The hollowness of the characters so far make them lack warmth. I am hoping for a greater focus on their ideas and motivations etc. in the subsequent chapters.

As an example, the love scene in the rowing boat between Cytherea Graye and Edward Springrove seemed to me to lack the romance and emotion that such a situation ought to generate.

In fact, despite both of them wanting the situation to develop as it did, Edward’s actions in kissing Cytherea felt to me more like an anxious assault rather than a loving caress.

Edward’s immediate warning afterwards also dampened down the romance, for Cytherea in particular.

Even though it occurred during the later part of the nineteenth century, I felt that the whole episode bordered on sleazy impropriety rather than romance. For Cytherea, the emotional thrills of first love were tarnished by her doubts.

’ 'Love is a sowre delight, and sugred griefe,
    A living death, and ever-dying life.'

Hardy’s quote from Thomas Watson’s Elizabethan ‘sonnet’ ‘An Invective Against Love,’ also sends out a message of possible foreboding.

(Here is the poem in full… https://www.poetrynook.com/poem/invec... )

What I do like about Hardy’s writing is the sparkling poetic imagery that is woven into and illuminates the fabric of his text.

‘ He (Edward) took her hand as before, and found it as cold as the water about them. It was not relinquished till he reached her door. His assurance had not removed the constraint of her manner: he saw that she blamed him mutely and with her eyes, like a captured sparrow.

I have always preferred Hardy’s poetry in comparison to his novels, but, not having read this one before and having enjoyed another early work A Pair of Blue Eyes, I will look forward to the unfolding of events in the forthcoming chapters.

I agree with many facts pointed out in Trev's comments. I personally think most of them stemmed from the fact that this was written in the early days of his career and that he was still finding his way in establishing his own unique writing style.

I like Cytherea and Owen, but I also thought the first three chapters were uncomfortably overwritten in places, probably because Hardy is learning as he goes along. The mystery about the first Cytherea is intriguing, both her refusal of Ambrose Graye's marriage proposal and the incident that is relayed to Owen by the gatehouse keeper. As for Edward Springrove, it's obvious that he, too, is hiding some secret, but I have a feeling we will learn more about that soon.

In this reread, my initial impressions of the story are ones already cited, but I'll mention them anyway:
- My feeling when reading was that the prose didn't flow quite as smoothly as most of Hardy's. So I nodded in agreement when I saw that Frances noted that she "found this opening a bit choppy." On the other hand, I did still like his language, which was as descriptive as usual or, as Trev refers to it as, "sparkling poetic imagery."
- My other impression was that I hadn't yet developed an empathy or sympathy for the characters yet. That's not unusual as that sometimes takes time with the characters that Hardy usually presents. But I do agree with Dianne's assessment that, as of now, Cytheria and Owen are not "terribly interesting or smart or ambitious." But Hardy has gotten me interested in similar characters before, so I have hopes.
- My final impression is that I have no memory of this plot or characters even though I am sure I read it. My contemporaneous notes on my 2011 desk calendar does record me as reading it during July of 2011 and rating it as 3.7/5 which I then rounded up to 4 stars when I joined Goodreads in 2014. So I am glad I joined in this reread of what feels like a brand new book to me.

Brian E wrote: "In this reread, my initial impressions of the story are ones already cited, but I'll mention them anyway:
- My feeling when reading was that the prose didn't flow quite as smoothly as most of Hardy..."

I agree with you that the flow is not smooth. A sign of being yet an amateur in prose writing. As we all he developed his style to produce brilliant and memorable works. I also can understand the lack of sympathy/empathy for the characters given the way they are presented. For my part at least, they interested me enough to want to know them better.

I agree this is a rough start, although most stories take a little while to get into.

My crackpot theory is that Cytherea #1 rejected Ambrose's proposal bc she was pregnant with Edward