Ultimate Popsugar Reading Challenge discussion

This is the March Monthly Group Read discussion of Call Us What We Carry: Poems by Amanda Gorman. This book can be used to fulfill prompt #48 A collection of at least 24 poems
World Poetry Day is on March 21!
Call Us What We Carry: Poems by Amanda Gorman

Joanna is the "marvelous manager" who has stepped forward to lead the discussion! Standing ovation for Joanna!!👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

HERE is a listing of potential discussion questions. These are meant to not only help those who volunteer to facilitate these monthly discussions but also to provide ideas for members participating in discussions!

Every person reads at a different pace, so please use spoiler tags if you are sharing any plot-related surprises. This allows others to decide whether this information might reveal surprising information they have not yet read. It can also be helpful to other readers if you post the location within the book noting your progress (chapter and/or page number). That way, if someone else has read that far they can go ahead and open the spoiler, but if not, they'll know to skip it for now and return later...

TO ADD SPOILER TAGS:
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Posts here should only be contributions to discussion about this book.

So glad I checked the Group Read. This is one I'll be able to participate in. I read it when this book came out and it was really good.

I look forward essentially to do a reread since it's been a while.

Just happened to get this off my library holds list today!! Hooray!!

Hi all! Welcome to the Call Us What We Carry: Poems monthly read! I'm going to try to space out questions throughout the month, roughly based on the different sections. Although I haven't started reading yet, so we'll see how that plan goes.

But, first to start us off:
1. Are you a big poetry reader?
2. Whether you are or not, do you have any poet/poem/poetry book recommendations?

For myself, I would say 1. No, not really. I don't dislike poetry, but it's generally not something I would reach for or pick up without something like a prompt to make me.
2. I did recently read The Poet X for an ATY prompt, and was absolutely blown away by it. So that would be my recommend!

I will be back early next week with some questions specifically about this book.

1. I wouldn't say I'm a big poetry reader, although I have enjoyed novels in verse by Elizabeth Acevedo, Jason Reynolds, and Jacqueline Woodson.

2. I would also recommend The Poet X or Long Way Down.

I listened to this book, Call Us What We Carry: Poems, in February as an audiobook, but I found it difficult to follow some of the poems, so I'm going to try to read it again with the group.

1. Are you a big poetry reader?
I really love novels in verse, so I've been reading a lot of those lately. And I usually read a couple of poetry collections each year.

2. Whether you are or not, do you have any poet/poem/poetry book recommendations?

Novels in verse
Long Way Down
The Poet X
Swing
The Black Flamingo
Me: Moth

Poetry Collections
Scars and Stars: Poems
Forever Words: The Unknown Poems
In Flanders Fields

I have both the physical book and the audiobook on loan from the library right now. I'm going to try the audiobook first, and keep the physical as just a back up.

My copy of this book is due on the 10th, so it's going to be one I focus on first this month.

1. Are you a big poetry reader?
I almost never read entire poetry collections. I do like poetry, but usually it's just one poem that I come across, and then I read it over and over, and have a copy save in my phone.

2. Whether you are or not, do you have any poet/poem/poetry book recommendations?
I think I'm pretty basic in my poetry tastes. A couple poems I really like are:
Wendy Cope- The Orange
Langston Hughes- Tired
Maggie Smith- Good Bones
Barbara Crooker- Grief

1. Are you a big poetry reader?

No, Its not something that I usually read. Although I read Clap When You Land by Elizabeth Acevedo, it is not exactly a poetry book its more a novel in verse. And I did enjoy that.

2. Whether you are or not, do you have any poet/poem/poetry book recommendations?

Like I said, I don't usually read poetry. But I do read Sylvia Plath poems when I am super sad.

Looking at people's posts, I find it interesting that so far there aren't many poetry readers around here. Nothing wrong with that to be sure, I just find it kind of interesting that's all, in a positive way.

I've even self-published 4 poetry books so that's been a fun experience.

*****

1. Are you a big poetry reader?

I would consider myself to be, yes. I first got into poetry when I was in my teens, really picked up on it though when I was 18. There was an episode of JAG called 'The Road Not Taken' or something along those lines, either that or it was on a fortune cookie in the episode, either way I remember hearing it on JAG and it got me thinking to the poem 'The Road Not Taken' by Robert Frost. Been a fan of poetry ever since.

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2. Whether you are or not, do you have any poet/poem/poetry book recommendations?

Let's see, where can I even start?

I suppose I would start with Mary Oliver. I had never heard of her until over 6 years ago when a friend told me about her. She knew I enjoyed reading and nature so she told me about her essay collection, "Upstream" which I devoured.

One poetry collection I would recommend by Mary Oliver is Devotions: The Selected Poems of Mary Oliver . It has a lot of her most famous poems in an anthology.

Robert Frost is a classic of course.

I would certainly read anything by Indigenous poet laureate Joy Harjo.

If you want to learn more about Indigenous poetry, I have a few recs that are more of anthologies:

Changing Is Not Vanishing: A Collection of American Indian Poetry to 1930 - A college professor recommended this one to me

New Poets of Native Nations

Native Voices: Indigenous American Poetry, Craft, and Conversations

When the Light of the World Was Subdued, Our Songs Came Through: A Norton Anthology of Native Nations Poetry

1. Yes, I'm a big poetry reader. I will be rereading this book in hardcover. I first read it as an ebook and some of the poems are written to makes shapes and it didn't always fit the ebook which took away from the poems. The 2016 PS challenge had a poetry collection prompt that is responsible for me reading poetry now. That's the past favourite prompt that I would use.

2. I love novels in verse as well as more traditional poetry.
For novel in verse
Kwame Alexander
Elizabeth Acevedo
Jason Reynolds
Rajani LaRocca
Thanhhà Lại
Starfish

More typical poetry:
Shakespeare's sonnets
Kate Baer
Amanda Lovelace
Some Things I Still Can't Tell You: Poems
Rupi Kaur
Dearly: New Poems
Dumpty: The Age of Trump in Verse
Snow White Learns Witchcraft
In Flanders Fields

I'll stop there.

1. Are you a big poetry reader?
I never used to but, in the last couple years I have found myself reaching for a book of poetry every once in a while. Last year I did discover that I like books in verse as well.

2. Whether you are or not, do you have any poet/poem/poetry book recommendations?
I just read Pillow Thoughts and really loved it. It's about love and is broken into the different areas of love that you could be in.

Flower Crowns and Fearsome Things
The sun and her flowers

I discovered Margarita Engle last year and she has a few YA books in verse that were really good. And of course Elizabeth Acevedo.

Starfish
Odder

As for this book I listened to the audiobook in February. I might pick up a hardcopy at the library if they have it to look at again this month.

Thanks for all the recommendations!

Since the book is nicely divided into sections, I'm going to lay out a timeline for when I'll get to each, in case people want to try to read along at pace.

Monday, March 4 - I'll post some questions on Requiem.
Thursday, March 7 - I'll post some questions on What A Piece of Wreck is Man
Monday, March 11 - I'll post some questions on Earth Eyes
Thursday, March 14 - I'll post some questions on Memoria
Monday, March 18 - I'll post some questions on Atonement
Thursday, March 21 - I'll post some questions on Fury & Faith
Monday, March 25 - I'll post some questions on Resolution
Thursday, March 28 - I'll post some questions about the book overall.

I realize that, with library due dates and things like that, not everyone will be able to follow the schedule, and I see that a bunch of people have read it already, but this will keep me organized. Thanks all!

Thank u for this 🙏🏼 this will make it easier for me to follow along!

Joanna wrote:

Since the book is nicely divided into sections, I'm going to lay out a timeline for when I'll get to each, in case people want to try to read along at pace.

Monday, March 4 - I'll post some questions on Requiem.
Thursday, March 7 - I'll post some questions on What A Piece of Wreck is Man
Monday, March 11 - I'll post some questions on Earth Eyes
Thursday, March 14 - I'll post some questions on Memoria
Monday, March 18 - I'll post some questions on Atonement
Thursday, March 21 - I'll post some questions on Fury & Faith
Monday, March 25 - I'll post some questions on Resolution
Thursday, March 28 - I'll post some questions about the book overall.

Love this!

I've written this timeline on a post-it note and placed it at the back of my book so it will make it easier to follow.

I've even separated the sections with tabs and the date numbers within the book so it will also help to follow.

1. Are you a big poetry reader? No, absolutely not! Which is why this is a great choice for me because I hope to have some guidance here. And I got really lucky and managed to get the Kindle edition from the library.
2. Whether you are or not, do you have any poet/poem/poetry book recommendations? I have one book of poetry (besides the Norton Anthology) that I acquired in college: 100 Selected Poems by ee cummings, which I will also be reading because I'm going for 75 books :)

Alright, here we go, with a few questions on the poems in "Requiem".

Okay, I will admit, this did not start great for me, I generally felt lost, in terms of what the poems were about.  A few poems in, I got to the point that this section at least is responses to COVID/lockdowns. So a lot of my questions today are of the “what’s going on variety”.

1.  Do you agree with the fact that this section is about COVID and our response? Are there any other topics you thought these poems could apply to?
2. The poem “Please” has words written sideways with [ ] between them, I assume to show words that have been blocked out.  I assume this is a fairly well known or common text that has been edited down to this poem, but I don’t recognize it.  Does anyone know what it is?  Or do you have a different interpretation?
3.    The poem “At First” has fairly large chunks of text in text bubbles.  But the content of them, except for a few emojis, doesn’t seem like a text conversation. So what is their purpose?
4.   With my interpretation that they're all about COVID, this is a book that is very responsive to the moment. Without judging (and noting that I haven't read further yet), is there any sense in which this will date the work, and limit it’s impact?  Can you think of any great writings – prose or poetry – that have a real sense of time and place but don't feel dated despite that?

So I'll only answer the fourth since my answer to the others are I don't know, or I give my response in the question. The one that I could think of that feels incredibly specific as to setting but also timeless would be A Tree Grows in Brooklyn, so I do think it is possible to create "great works" that will also in some sense read as dated in the future. However, I do think it ups the difficulty level to write so well that people will be able to look past the dated elements to the strength of the writing or the story.

1. I definitely think this first section is about the pandemic.

2. I think it's a message about social distancing and wearing a mask. I'm not sure the exact words, but I'm just guessing from "ensure you maintain [six feet between?] yourself & others..."

3. I wonder if it's supposed to symbolize the problems communicating and staying connected to community when people can't gather as a community directly? I agree with you, it's supposed to resemble a text conversation, but it doesn't really read as one.

4. I have already listened to this on audio, so I have some knowledge about the later poems. I do think this section about the pandemic is an interesting record of the moment, and those are important to have, both for those who lived through it, and those who didn't so they don't forget or deny what happened.

Thanks for the questions, Joanna. Here are my responses:

1. Do you agree with the fact that this section is about COVID and our response? Are there any other topics you thought these poems could apply to?

I do agree that the section is about Covid. I struggled finding any other meaning for them.

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2. The poem “Please” has words written sideways with [ ] between them, I assume to show words that have been blocked out. I assume this is a fairly well known or common text that has been edited down to this poem, but I don’t recognize it. Does anyone know what it is? Or do you have a different interpretation?

I've never cared for poems like this. I don't see the point and I don't see the interconnectedness to it. Therefore I could not begin to comprehend the use of the spaced out words and the blocks [ ].

*****

3. The poem “At First” has fairly large chunks of text in text bubbles. But the content of them, except for a few emojis, doesn’t seem like a text conversation. So what is their purpose?

I think Gorman does try to make it come off as a text especially at the end when she ends the bubble with, "Sorry for the long text; there are no small words in the mouth..." Here vision though I think is flawed since it doesn't come out like a series of texts at all. If anything I view the poem as something that should be done in letter/email format because it her idea of it being a text doesn't work well or with the main intent.

*****

4. With my interpretation that they're all about COVID, this is a book that is very responsive to the moment. Without judging (and noting that I haven't read further yet), is there any sense in which this will date the work, and limit it’s impact? Can you think of any great writings – prose or poetry – that have a real sense of time and place but don't feel dated despite that?

I love this question! I think this is one of those types of answers that requires one of those "to be determined" type of responses. We're going into 4 years of this whole Covid thing. Gorman published this book in 2021, only a year after so everything she wrote was raw. Now 4 years in we still have people getting sick, and still people are dying (they just don't report it as frequently anymore, but that's a whole other rabbit hole).

I guess in the end my point is that while Gorman published it a year after, and here we are four years later, I think there is some validity though it's getting slimmer.

In other cases, you look at poets from the 1960s during the Jim Crow eras and Civil Rights movements and you'll see how relevant those are today because people still face those kinds of issues.

When it comes to poetry about Covid (by any poet for that matter), only time is the real factor. For all we know we can have another epidemic or endemic or whatever you want to call it in a year or longer and then Gorman's poetry would be as relevant in that future time as it is now.

It's all a matter of perspective and whether or not certain events do, will, or do not happen.

1. Yeah, it's clearly about Covid.

2. Honestly, this poem didn't work for me, so I didn't really bother to try and think about it. I like Jan's response about the 6 feet distance symbolism. Going back, it actually makes the thing work for me to keep that in mind.

3. I actually don't mind having them as text messages, I just wish there had been more of a connection from one text to the next to mimicking a conversation.

4. One of my poetry recs was for a collection of WW1 poetry, and they definitely had a sense of time and place that was dated, but they were still powerful.

1. Do you agree with the fact that this section is about COVID and our response? Are there any other topics you thought these poems could apply to?

yes it is about covid

2. The poem “Please” has words written sideways with [ ] between them, I assume to show words that have been blocked out. I assume this is a fairly well known or common text that has been edited down to this poem, but I don’t recognize it. Does anyone know what it is? Or do you have a different interpretation?

I did not get this.. I read it couple of times, but nope!

3. The poem “At First” has fairly large chunks of text in text bubbles. But the content of them, except for a few emojis, doesn’t seem like a text conversation. So what is their purpose?

I agree with Kendra, I mean what is point of having that in a text msg?? It lacked coherence.

4. With my interpretation that they're all about COVID, this is a book that is very responsive to the moment. Without judging (and noting that I haven't read further yet), is there any sense in which this will date the work, and limit it’s impact? Can you think of any great writings – prose or poetry – that have a real sense of time and place but don't feel dated despite that?

idk, i guess only time will tell that.

1. Do you agree with the fact that this section is about COVID and our response? Are there any other topics you thought these poems could apply to? I had to go back and reread the beginning because the first 3 poems spoke so clearly to me as a victim of violence as well as a chem dep/alcoholic that came of age in the 70's when relationships between men and women were well horrible. (yeah, I'm old. I apologize.) After that, it's clearly about COVID, and I can't imagine how horrible it would have been to be young and in school going through that.
2. The poem “Please” has words written sideways with [ ] between them, I assume to show words that have been blocked out. I assume this is a fairly well known or common text that has been edited down to this poem, but I don’t recognize it. Does anyone know what it is? Or do you have a different interpretation? I've never seen this, but I'm not a fan of poetry. My brain filled in the blanks more or less and it worked for me.
3. The poem “At First” has fairly large chunks of text in text bubbles. But the content of them, except for a few emojis, doesn’t seem like a text conversation. So what is their purpose? I took it as steps in a journey, and thought it worked well.
4. With my interpretation that they're all about COVID, this is a book that is very responsive to the moment. Without judging (and noting that I haven't read further yet), is there any sense in which this will date the work, and limit it’s impact? Can you think of any great writings – prose or poetry – that have a real sense of time and place but don't feel dated despite that? I'm still thinking about the prose and poetry that don't feel dated but I think this will stand the test of time. The anxiety brought on by the pandemic was real and was horrible. Anxiety is not likely to go away anytime soon, so I think this will last. And -- given my initial reaction to the first 3 poems as being not related to COVID, I think others will likely relate to this in a similar manner.

Thanks, all for chiming in!

I have to say, I'm still very curious about "Please", so I took a stab at filling some of it in.

ensure you maintain [six feet between] yourself & others & [cover your] face [at ] all [times]?[ ] people [ ] in [ ]time

So I have a guess at the first part, not the second. Any ideas?

I really like your idea, Jen, that's it's about social distancing, using that within the poem.

I'm coming in late!! I'll just tackle the first questions.

1. YES I am a big poetry reader, I always have a book of poetry on my currently reading shelf. I read a mix of classics and new and emerging poets - that latter category can be very hit or miss, which makes sense since those considered classics are the good stuff that rose to the top, and the new and emerging poets are a mixed bag. Some of them will become classics someday.

I am not a big fan of novels in verse, however. I prefer to listen to those as audiobooks so I'm not distracted by trying to read them as poems (and even then, I don't love half of them - I can't put my finger on why - they seem too earnest somehow).

My two favorite currently living poets, who are autobuys for me now (and I rarely buy books!) - both of these women are recent poet laureates, as well:

Tracy K. Smith - read Life on Mars: Poems (yes, the David Bowie reference is intentional, and she carries this theme through the book) or Wade in the Water: Poems

Ada Limon - I credit her with getting me back into reading poetry ever day. NYC has a program on their mass transit where they post short poems in some of the cars. I was on the subway one day and I read a poem by Limon - I'd never herd of her, but it was so good I made a note of it and looked her up later. Her poem reminded me of how much I used to love poetry, and that's when I decided to make it a part of my daily schedule, it's sort of my version of a daily devotional I guess (if I understand correctly what that is). I was also thrilled to find an anthology of some of the poems that had been posted: The Best of Poetry in Motion: Celebrating Twenty-Five Years on Subways and Buses.

For Limon, start with Bright Dead Things (or The Carrying or The Hurting Kind: Poems or Sharks in the Rivers or anything by her really).

This is the poem I read on the subway car that day:

A Name
by Ada Limón

When Eve walked among
the animals and named them—
nightingale, red-shouldered hawk,
fiddler crab, fallow deer—
I wonder if she ever wanted
them to speak back, looked into
their wide wonderful eyes and
whispered, Name me, name me.

I was blown away when I saw Gorman read her poem at the Presidential inauguration. I immediately looked her up to see who she was, and I pre-ordered this book. Unfortunately, I wasn't really thrilled with this book ;-( I think it's try to do too much. This would have been more powerful if she had excised 3/4 of these poems and saved them for another collection.

Joanna wrote: "Thanks, all for chiming in!

I have to say, I'm still very curious about "Please", so I took a stab at filling some of it in.

ensure you maintain [six feet between] yourself & others & [cover you..."

Maybe the second part is about how some places could only allow X number of people inside or in line at a time to ensure everyone could maintain social distancing?

Okay, after midnight here, so I will get to my "What a Piece of Wreck is Man" questions.

I have to say, personally, I'm still struggling a little with really getting into this. I'm still seeing the poems as Covid reaction, but now with added nautical imagery.

1. In the hard copy, "Essex 1" puts the words into the shape of a whale. This was the first presentation choice that I found a little gimmicky. The ones in the first section (the check-boxes, even the text bubbles) felt like they might have a reason behind them, but this just felt cutesy. What did you make of that choice?

2. Speaking of the presentation choices, I was interested that a few people said they had read the audio, some did hard copy, and some did both. For those that read the audio, is there any sort of indication of some of the presentation choices, or is it just the "words" of them? For those that did both, do you have a preference?
It seems to me that the presentation is part of the poem, and even if you were told about them, it wouldn't have the same effect. On the other hand, with poetry especially, I find it really helps to hear it read, for the rhythm and effect. So I've been reading some of them out loud (much to my cat's disdain - I guess she's not a fan).

3. "Call Us" is another poem that confuses me. How would you interpret it?
So I first read it and I was like, okay, we carry bacteria and other stuff on our bodies that aren't our own - which would make sense in the context of poems about covid. But then she says it's over half of us, which doesn't seem right. And why would that be a thing we want to be called?

4. Any other poems in this section you want to discuss or unpack?

1 + 2. I don't remember anything in the audio indicating the layout. I don't think the shape really does anything for the poem, other than connect it to the event of the whaling ship, in the case of Essex I.

3. I'm not really sure. She refers to people as boats, so maybe she's trying to tie it back to the whaling ship and the nautical theme, and say each person isn't just an individual, but a collective of organisms or maybe even generational memories/trauma? Yeah, I didn't really get this one, although I do love the line "Call us what we carry."

4. I actually really liked the language and the flow of "Cordage, or Atonement". I felt this section overall was a little more hopeful than the previous, like looking forward rather than back.

Grabbed this audio version from the library, lucky me. I think will be very good to listen to this month.
Great suggestion

1 & 2: I tried to listen to the audiobook for this and it just didn't work for me (I don't listen to audiobooks for a reason) so I switched to the physical book and it made me much happier. I actually really like when there is an added visual to a poem like have the words in the shape of a whale. It just adds another layer to it. But that's why I prefer to read poetry rather than listen to it.

3: This was the poem in the section that spoke to me the most. I liked how it connected the story of the ship wreck to covid experiences and the other poems that have come so far. I liked the simplicity and clarity of the poem. We may feel all alone, but we are made up of thousands of organisms that work in symbiosis.

4: I struggled with 'Hephaestus', especially with trying to find meaning in the title.

What other prompts does this book fill?

Rachel Anne wrote: "What other prompts does this book fill?"

A title that is a complete sentence, possibly one of the recommendation categories if it was recommended by a bookseller or librarian.

Kendra wrote: "4: I struggled with 'Hephaestus', especially with trying to find meaning in the title"

So, I looked him up (used to be big into mythology, but haven't retained a ton, and the only thing I have is his fall / being thrown from Olympus? There are two version - 1. Thrown off by Hera because he was lame, 2. Thrown off by Zeus when Hephaestus tried to protect Hera. In this account, it's this that makes him lame. I'm not sure if that ties into the end of the poem, with The Fall / Just Makes / Us / More / Ourselves. But the poem makes it pretty clear that's a self-caused fall with the reference to missing a step, so I'm not really sure either. The other thing I know about Hephaestus is that Aphrodite was his wife, but cheated on him with Ares, and he designed a trap that would catch them together in bed with a net. But I don't see that fitting the poem at all.

Sorry for the delay, all. I put the book on the counter so I could take it with me today and post questions during the day, but then I forgot to transfer it from the counter to my bag.

So, here we are with the questions on "Earth Eyes". I think we're now adding in nature to the prior concerns.

1. In many of the poems, Gorman defines words or concepts (in this section, we've got lumen, the solidus and stereotypic behaviour. Have you learned anything from the poems so far, or, for those who have read on, the rest of the book?
Lumen and stereotypic behaviour were both new to me things. I also looked up both arborescent and abulic.
2. Do you enjoy books that make you do that - stop to look words up? I usually actually avoid it. If I can get along without knowing the definition, or puzzle it out from context, I will absolutely just keep reading and leave it. But I think that's a little easier with prose than interpreting poems.
3. In addition to some of the themes I've already talked about (COVID, environmental concerns, shipwrecks) there's now also been a few references to Greek mythological figures (last section's Hephaestus, this section's Pan). How do you feel that fits in with the other thematic concerns?
At first, i wasn't too sure, but then another poem in this section, "Alarum" has the lines "Man is a myth / in the making." So, I wonder if that's the connection, calling back to a different mythology, that really doesn't have force in the world any more?
4. Any other poems from this section you want to discuss?

I'll have to catch up soon. I was busy for a week so that left little down time. It'll be fairly easy though since the book is a quick one to get through.

1. Are you a big poetry reader? I'm not a huge poetry reader but I do love erotic and spoken word poetry from time to time.
2. Whether you are or not, do you have any poet/poem/poetry book recommendations? As said before The Poet X I listened to this a few years ago and some parts almost had me in tears. Mostly nostalgia, growing up with my friends from Puerto Rico or the Dominican Republic, I saw them as the main characters.

Also I own a copy and had to buy it because of the cover. It's more nostalgia and a cultural appreciation of the poetry since it's very nuanced. Some of it is only understood if you grew up as a Black girl in America.

Then of course I fell in love with poetry reading The Raven by Poe.

Joanna wrote: "Kendra wrote: "4: I struggled with 'Hephaestus', especially with trying to find meaning in the title"

So, I looked him up (used to be big into mythology, but haven't retained a ton, and the only t..."

I do know a bunch of Greek mythology and I have been reading a ton of retellings lately, but I still can barely see the connection.

1&2 I generally don't look up words either and just use context to increase my vocab. I do really appreciate the way the author will define a concept and use that to enhance the poem's meaning. I don't think I've ever come across the word abulic before though.

3 It just made me laugh that the Greek myths really are popping up in everything I read lately. I liked the connection between pandemic, pandemonium, and the Pan and Pandora myths. It's the kind of wordplay I find fun.

I felt like this section was much more solidly about climate change and man's impact on the planet.

1 & 2 - Same as Kendra, I generally try to pick up on meaning from context. I do like being able to look up a word I'm not sure of with one click in ebooks, though.
3. I have been enjoying the mythology references. I agree, I liked the way the author tied together all the words with the root "Pan" to the god.
4. Just wanted to call out this line from "Earth Eyes" for sending a shiver up my spine:
"Every day this very ground spoils beneath us, for we are bringing to all the ends of the Earth the end of the Earth."

Questions on Memoria

1. In "Memorial", Gorman writes "The poet transcends "telling" or "performing" a story & instead remembers it, touches, tastes, traps it's vastness."
Do you agree with that statement? Does it only apply to poets, or could it be extended to any literary artist?
I struggled with that, why is poetry different than prose writing? But then I looked at the fact that this poem also references the Greek muses, so I wonder if she's specifically talking about a Homer-style poet who would recite, and I wonder if she means that, or all poets.
2. "Pre-Memory" deals with the phenomena of post-memory (children of trauma survivors carrying a memory of that trauma) and pre-memory (understanding a current reality as a collective memory). Do you like / use those concepts?
Post-memory makes sense to me. Pre-memory I have a bit of a harder time with because she writes about it as something that's almost a binary - we can choose to remember accurately or we can choose to distort /acknowledge. But I feel like that fails to get at the ways in which memory is failable. We can try to remember something accurately, and even be convinced that we are, but it's not the truth at all. As a lawyer, I often have this issue with witnesses - they're honest but mistaken.
3. Any other poems from the section that you want to discuss or highlight?
I also liked parts of "Vale of the Shadow of Death or Extra! Extra! Read All About It!" with it's references to past pandemics and all to clear connections to COVID. Some lines in it were obscure to me, but I enjoyed it overall.
4. Mid-month check in - for those reading along with the schedule, how are you feeling at this point? For those who have already completed, do you remember how you felt mid-read? I still feel a lot overwhelmed by everything going on in these poems. I find I really appreciate them on the micro-level - there are many lines and images that individually, are very striking - like the one Jen referenced just above from Earth Eyes. But zooming out more, it's just a lot to take, and there's a lot I feel like I'm not getting. So, I wouldn't say this is a slog for me, but I'm struggling.

No takers on the last set, I guess! Are my questions too specific?

Questions on "Atonement".

Atonement
1. So, now, a whole section with erasure poems. What are your thoughts on this type of poetry? I hadn't seen many before, only some made from tweets, which I thought were kind of cute. I didn't enjoy a lot of these these as much - I think I'd like to see the context the poem emerged from. When it's just the "final form" it's often a little awkward? Also, I have a puzzle solving brain so when there's some indications of how much is missing (spacing or dashes) I want to try and figure out what that was, instead of focusing on the poem.

2. Two of the poems also gave the titles in Morse. Any thoughts as to why? I have no idea. They're military in subject but that's all I have.

3. This section had a few explanatory notes, as to the style of poetry, or how they were developed. What was your reaction to those? Should a poem be able to stand without that? I liked them here, I thought they added needed context.

4. Any other poems you want to discuss?
I thought -----[gated] was absolutely the strongest poem of the book so far - I reacted out loud to some of the lines. I was just so impressed with how it drew a connection about how some people couldn’t deal with the pandemic-imposed restrictions, but others have historically dealt with far more restrictive and worse restraints.  It packed a punch and made me see things in a new light. Some lines I loved:
- "Some were asked to walk a fraction / of our exclusion for a
year & it almost destroyed all they thought they were."
- "Non-being, i.e. distance from society – social distance – is
the very heritage of the oppressed.  Which means to the
oppressor, social distance is a humiliation."

Sorry, I missed the update with the last set of questions! :)

1. As I writer, I do think that any literary artist can evoke sense and memory, but there is something about poetry, especially spoken-word poetry, that seems (in my experience) to slice to the core of emotions or feelings. I think it's because poetry is trying to distill something complex into something that evokes feelings in others or tells a story with a smaller amount of words than most prose.

2. Post-memory makes sense to me, too. It feels like a similar concept to generational trauma, trauma that is passed down from one generation to the next. I thought of the "pre-memory" concept more in terms of something a group of people is living through, such as the pandemic, which we know so much of this book is about - how even if we haven't experienced it directly, we're surrounded by stories of other people's experiences, and at the same time, you have people (and governments) trying to go back to normal, lying about what was happening and denying the trauma of others.

And I loved the line: "Grief is the grenade that always goes off."

3. Like Joanna, I also liked "Vale of the Shadow of Death or Extra! Extra! Read All About It!" This was one of the ones I really enjoyed on audio, as the rhythm and the wordplay lent itself really well to reading aloud.

4. I am connecting a lot more with the earlier poems than I did on audio. Overall, though, poetry still doesn't do that much for me, with a few exceptions.

Atonement
1. I don't really have any strong feelings either way on erasure poetry.

2. I think it's because of the military connection.

3. I agree, I liked the explanatory notes. They gave needed context to the poems. It helped draw the parallels between the Spanish flu pandemic and the COVID pandemic, and also why she chose the documents she did for the erasure poetry.

4. I quite like some of the lines in "War? What, Is It Good?" and how she draws the parallels between the actions taken to fight a war and the actions taken to fight a pandemic.

I also thought "The Surveyed" was interesting, and also how in "_____[gated]" she calls back to it. "_____[gated]" was another that was strong on audio, and I enjoyed reading it again.

Oh man, interesting confluence of reading material. I'm also currently reading Doppelganger: A Trip into the Mirror World for my book club.

However, she has a chapter in it where she talks about pandemic backlash, and how a movement of mostly well-off white women resisted many of the pandemic control measures (masks, vaccination status requirements, etc) by in part, co-opting the language of the civil rights movements.

It just has such synchronicity with this book, _____[gated] particularly, with it's commentary about white people being taken aback when COVID measures were imposed on them because they were not used to such treatment / it being imposed on them equally to others.

I can just see how the initial resistance to the measures being imposed would lead to them feeling victimized in a new way, and lashing out, while somehow claiming this gave them the same standing as other groups who previously fought for equality.

I'm not expressing it well, but the confluence between them is blowing my mind, and I would love to see an event with Amanda Gorman and Naomi Klein in conversation.

I'll try to catch up on the questions this week. I've been reading the book, just lagging on the questions. Hope to have some answers soon!

Memoria

1. To me, the point of storytelling is to invoke feelings in others and pass 'the memory' along. And I guess it makes sense that to be effective in doing that, a poet has to really put themselves in the emotion/experience because they have so few words to express themselves.

2. I've read many books that discuss generational trauma (post memory), but I'd never encountered pre-memory. AKA looking at the current moment as a form of memory. It was probably the part of the section that struck me the most.

3. I really liked "Who We Gonna Call" while "Vale of the Shadow of Death or Extra! Extra! Read All About It!" left me kind of cold. A few lines of the later jumped out at me, but overall it just sorta went by. I guess the ghost/memory imagery just reached me more.

4. Well, I got a little behind, but I'm enjoying the discussions, even if this collection is proving to be a very mixed bag for me (some I love, some I hate, some I only like parts of the poems) I feel like I went in with too high expectations, so now I'm feeling a little disappointed because the book is just not matching up to the hype (imo)

"Atonement"

1. I've seen erasure poems before, but they've always had the original text with the erasures blacked out, and I think I prefer it that way. That way I'd at least know where the erasures were - this way makes me mistrust the whole text, which makes it hard to get into the poem.

2. It might be the military connection - or it could be about distilling the titles down to just the rhythm of the dots and dashes, just like the erasure poems are distilling the documents down into the 'the undercurrent beneath the watered surface of the words"

3. I don't think poetry needs to stand on it's own. I think having the notes helps, especially when a poem is in a style that is not as common as others.

4. I loved the poetry she added to "The Soldiers (or Plummer)" but I wish she'd made it clearer what was original text vs. what she added. Not knowing which was which left me feeling a little manipulated and like I was being lied to.

And I agree, " _____[gated]" was powerful. The musicality of it (starting with a song reference, the section with the hard c alliteration) just added to it.

Kendra wrote: "4. I loved the poetry she added to "The Soldiers (or Plummer)" but I wish she'd made it clearer what was original text vs. what she added. Not knowing which was which left me feeling a little manipulated and like I was being lied to."
Oh interesting, I had the opposite reaction! I felt like the delineations were quite clear between the prose and the poetry, and when I read her note about trying to write in his voice, I remember thinking that I don't think she was that successful.

I also like your point about maybe the Morse was about distilling down to rhythm, which makes a lot of sense for poetry!

Alright, I think it's just one big question today on "Fury & Faith".

1. I really responded to two poems in this section, "Fury and Faith" and "The Truth in One Nation", which are probably two more classic / straightforward poems, presentation-wise. What do you find that you respond strongly to in poetry? Looking at my reactions, I guess I'm a bit of a traditionalist. I like poems with rhyme schemes, that play with language. On that last one, I really do love how Gorman uses alliteration to great impact in many different places. A lot of the other presentation choices though, as I've talked about, seem gimmicky or distracting to me. I spend more time thinking about that (like the black pages, fading in this section) and what those are really doing than the content of the poems. But maybe I'm just not being expansive enough in my definition of what poetry is. Why can't it be more than just what the words say?

2. Any other thoughts on this section you'd like to discuss?

1. I find I respond to strong imagery and emotion, and also wordplay and rhythm, like clever alliteration or juxtaposition of words. I have been highlighting like crazy now that I got this book on Kindle. Some of her poems, you can tell were meant to be read aloud, just from the rhythm and the wordplay.

1. Are you a big poetry reader?
Definitely not. I don't dislike poetry, but I just don't fit it into my reading that often.

2. Whether you are or not, do you have any poet/poem/poetry book recommendations?
The Poet X was so amazing!
I listened to Long Way Down and now have a copy of the book and hope to read it this year. Loved the audio!
And finally, Old Possum's Book of Practical Cats was adorable!

Questions for "Resolution"

1. The book ends on a more hopeful note. Do you agree? Did you like that? Did it feel earned?
I think it was necessary, it was very intense and heavy at times, but I don't know that it did feel earned. I think my issue is that I don't have a real sense of what the path forward to change from all these issues she's raised is. Like, the pandemic. She now treats it as something that's over, that we conquered, but I don't know that that's right. People are still getting sick, we just aren't reporting as much. Even if we're through it, I don't know that I would say we conquered so much as endured. Although I guess developing the vaccines counts for something.
But for instance, the poem "The Miracle of Morning" threw me because at first I was thinking it was about a specific morning, but I don't think it is? Just a random morning as people return to normalcy.
It seems like her prescription for the future is hope and change, and climbing the hill, but I need more specifics. And maybe that's not fair to ask of her, as a poet, but I'm just not sure what makes her hopeful.

2. In "Closure", she writes:

In a poem, there's no end,
Just a place where the page
Glows wide & waiting
Like a lifted hand,
Poised & paused.

Fantastic alliteration, but am I being too literal to say that of course a poem ends?

I can see how some wouldn't - the ones that stay with you in your mind. But most do!

3. She includes "The Hill We Climb", the inaugural poem. Did you see her perform in in January 2021? Do you remember what you thought at the time?

Even though I'm not American, I did have the inauguration on but wasn't paying full attention, and that poem was one of the moments that caught and kept my notice. I actually bought her shorter publication of just that poem. (To be fair, I thought it was a collection until I got it, but I bought it on the strength of hearing her). I do think it speaks to the strength of her performance though, because even reading it out loud myself, it's not as striking as it was hearing her recite it.

4. Any other poems in this section you want to discuss?

I will be back Thursday with some final wrap up questions on the book as a whole!

1. I agree, it ends on a more hopeful note. I think it was earned, and needed, after the heavy subject matter of the early poems. I enjoyed this section the most during my audio read, and I also enjoyed reading them.

I thought "The Miracle of Morning" might have been referencing the morning after election day 2020, when Biden defeated Trump. A lot of people here in the U.S. were watching those election results with bated breath, afraid we'd wake up in the morning to another nightmare.

2. Maybe this is my writer brain talking, but perhaps "the page / Glows wide and waiting" for you to write your own thoughts and reactions, an invitation to tell your own story through poetry, and continue the cycle of inspiration and sharing.

3. I had tears in my eyes listening to her inaugural poem, and re-watched the video several times. I wanted to read this collection, in fact, on the strength of that poem.

Sorry I didn't get around to answering the questions. I have been reading the book. I'll see if I can come back later and look through the questions and my notes and answer them.