Reading the 20th Century discussion

Welcome to our March 24 buddy read of Oliver Twist

Following The Pickwick Papers, this was Dickens second full-length novel, first published in 1838. The story of the orphan Oliver, who runs away from the workhouse to be taken in by a den of thieves, shocked readers with its depiction of a dark criminal underworld peopled by vivid and memorable characters - the arch-villain Fagin, the artful Dodger, the menacing Bill Sikes and the prostitute Nancy. Combining elements of Gothic romance, the Newgate novel and popular melodrama, Oliver Twist created an entirely new kind of fiction, scathing in its indictment of a cruel society and pervaded by an unforgettable sense of threat and mystery.

https://www.charlesdickenspage.com/ch...

Having read Dickens and Christmas and Please, Sir, we would like some more Dickens...

Everyone is welcome to join in.

There's an Oliver prequel on BBC iPlayer at the moment...


https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-ra...

...which sounds like a lot of fun and a treat for all ages


Dodger follows the Artful Dodger, Fagin and a gang of young thieves in the years before the events of Oliver Twist and is the creation of Rhys Thomas, who was once a part of the Fast Show’s cast

Oliver Twist is quite a lot darker in the original than many of the adaptations, it might feature child characters but was not written as a children's book, I think.

Looks fun, Nigeyb.

Yes, it is definitely darker, although I have not read it for many, many years.

It was a set book early in my secondary school, and was one that put me off Dickens until very recently (although David Copperfield was worse ...)

Studying books can often put you off, Rosina. Doing Romeo and Juliet twice at GCSE with my two youngest children really made me dislike the play. I did Macbeth, which is much more fun.

Doing Shakespeare at school never put me off the plays - although I don't think we ever 'did' R&J - Henry V, Macbeth, and Julius Caesar, I can remember doing at school, with the desks pushed back so we could 'act' the play while reading it.

I read Fluellen, because I could 'do' the Welsh accent ...

I took a look for the book. No luck so far. I have a closet yet to look in. Otherwise, I will look over the shelves more carefully.

Not long until March now! I've started rereading Oliver Twist - who else is joining in on this one? So far I've just read the first 4 chapters (the first 2 monthly numbers) and must agree with RC's comment that it's much darker than many of the adaptations.

I couldn't find my old Penguin copy and the print is probably tiny anyway, so I bought a reasonably-priced "Collins Classroom" edition on Kindle which is intended for A-level students and has an introduction and notes.

The introduction mentions that it would have been quite a shock for readers turning from Pickwick Papers to Oliver Twist. That's true, but of course there are some dark sequences in Pickwick as well, such as the chapters set in Newgate Prison.

Dickens was also writing both books at once for a time, as the later monthly numbers of PP overlapped with the first ones of Oliver Twist. I've seen it mentioned somewhere that, unusually, his second novel influenced his first one!

I am listening to Winter in Madrid and then I intend to start on Oliver Twist, Judy. Probably not until the end of next week though.

I have only read Pickwick once, many years ago now.

I've started it but I haven't yet decided if I'm in. I love Dickens but this one isn't close to the top of my Dickens to-read list.

I think, as Judy says, one of the interesting things about Oliver Twist is that it is so much darker than the adaptations.

I haven't read as much Dickens as I would have wanted and mostly when I was much younger. I am interested to rediscover him.

I love Dickens but will probably skip this one. For me, Dickens really raises his game with the later novels and Oliver Twist still feels a bit tentative.

That said, there are some tremendous set pieces in the later half so I'll be following this discussion with interest. I read this at about 20 and still have some scenes vivid in my mind!

Mine is still hiding from me.

I am about to embark on this one, performed by Jonathan Pryce (aka the 'OB' in the TV version of Slow Horses).

I am fifteen chapters in on Audible now and I am surprised at how clearly the plot follows that of the TV musical. Noah Claypole, arriving London, Fagin and already Oliver is with the 'Old Gentleman,' and about to be snatched by Nancy.

Although I have only read this once, and many years ago, I am intrigued by the way Dickens is keen to emphasise the poverty and misery around Oliver, even in this, his second novel. I know that Judy mentioned this influenced Pickwick, which I recall as a lighter, more comic, read, or am I misremembering?

Susan wrote: "I know that Judy mentioned this influenced Pickwick, which I recall as a lighter, more comic, read, or am I misremembering?..."

Most of Pickwick is light and comic, as you say, Susan, but there are some dark sections, some of which are later on. I've seen a suggestion somewhere that these chapters were influenced by the early chapters of Oliver Twist, since the writing of the two books overlapped for a while.

I'm up to Chapter 20 and am interested to see how Nancy's character is changing by this point. She seems just as bad as the other thieves to start with, but then, after she pursues Oliver, we start to see another side to her character.

If anyone is interested in knowing the details of the original serial publication, this is copied from Wikipedia:

The novel was first published in monthly instalments, from February 1837 to April 1839, in the magazine Bentley's Miscellany. It was originally intended to form part of Dickens's serial, The Mudfog Papers. George Cruikshank provided one steel etching per month to illustrate each instalment. The novel first appeared in book form six months before the initial serialisation was completed, in three volumes published by Richard Bentley, the owner of Bentley's Miscellany, under the author's pseudonym, "Boz". It included 24 steel-engraved plates by Cruikshank.

The first edition was titled: Oliver Twist, or, The Parish Boy's Progress.

Serial publication dates:

I – February 1837 (chapters 1–2)
II – March 1837 (chapters 3–4)
III – April 1837 (chapters 5–6)
IV – May 1837 (chapters 7–8)
V – July 1837 (chapters 9–11)
VI – August 1837 (chapters 12–13)
VII – September 1837 (chapters 14–15)
VIII – November 1837 (chapters 16–17)
IX – December 1837 (chapters 18–19)
X – January 1838 (chapters 20–22)
XI – February 1838 (chapters 23–25)
XII – March 1838 (chapters 26–27)
XIII – April 1838 (chapters 28–30)
XIV – May 1838 (chapters 31–32)
XV – June 1838 (chapters 33–34)
XVI – July 1838 (chapters 35–37)
XVII – August 1838 (chapters 38–part of 39)
XVIII – October 1838 (conclusion of chapter 39–41)
XIX – November 1838 (chapters 42–43)
XX – December 1838 (chapters 44–46)
XXI – January 1839 (chapters 47–49)
XXII – February 1839 (chapter 50)
XXIII – March 1839 (chapter 51)
XXIV – April 1839 (chapters 52–53)

I think Victorian novels often being serialised suffer from modern sensibilities about keeping the action going. I must say, I like the old, meandering style. It seems as though publishing now assumes that people can't remember anything or follow plots.

I forgot all about Bill Sykes and the burglary!

Thank you Judy . I've decided to embark as the serialisation schedule you outlined fits so nicely with a month's read. Already I'm impressed with the satire which offsets the bleakness without pulling any punches .

You do feel that Dickens has a lot that he wants to say in this early novel. His writing is full of anger but also, as you say Hester, satire on people and places.

Good to hear that the serial episodes have pulled you in, Hester. I'm about halfway through now and am also finding I'd forgotten a lot from previous reads, but remember the best bits. I've just read the chapter with Mr Bumble's proposal, which is hilarious.

Started this a few days ago. I hadn't read any Dickens before but we assimilate the stories through film, TV drama and musicals. But loving actually reading the tale of The Parish Boy's Progress.

Just finished and love, love, love. Powerful, moving, Charles Dickens was so ahead of his time.

Stephen wrote: "Just finished and love, love, love. Powerful, moving, Charles Dickens was so ahead of his time."

I love Dickens but I find his representation of Fagin just too much even if Dickens did try to make up for it later!

https://omf.ucsc.edu/dickens/biograph...

Alwynne, I wholeheartedly agree with you. His representation was too much and did jar.

Alwynne and Stephen, I have affection for this novel as it is the one which first got me interested in Dickens when I read it as a child, but, on rereading it after a gap of some years, I also found the representation of Fagin took me aback. Here are a couple more links on the topic:
https://dickenssociety.org/archives/3498
https://jewishcurrents.org/charles-di...

Judy wrote: "Alwynne and Stephen, I have affection for this novel as it is the one which first got me interested in Dickens when I read it as a child, but, on rereading it after a gap of some years, I also foun..."

Thanks for those Judy, both really interesting. The article about the inspiration for the YA book was very touching.

Judy, thanks for the articles. As Alwynne has said, the one from the Dickens society about the inspiration for the YA book was very moving. I am glad of the persistence of Eliza Davis.