The Sword and Laser discussion

New year. New thread. How are you kicking things off this year?

Reading the The Last Fang of God, one of SPFBO 9 finalists. Listening to One Foot in the Fade: Fetch Phillips, Book 3 by Luke Arnold. My one pre-order for January is Wolves of Winter.

Currently reading simultaneously:

Redliners by David Drake
The Ghost Brigades by John Scalzi (re-read)
The True Bastards by Jonathan French
The Blighted Stars by Megan O’Keefe

On deck:
Shakedown by Scott Sigler
The Worst Ship in the Fleet: A Military Science Fiction Adventure! by Skyler Ramirez
The Book That Wouldn’t Burn by Mark Lawrence

I’m starting Mur Lafferty’s latest book Chaos Terminal

I'm still reading Sword Catcher by Cassandra Clare and I've started listening to All the Hidden Paths by Foz Meadows.

Starting the year continuting my two unfinished reads from the end of last year.
Iron Flame
The Olympian Affair

Making a concerted effort to read more regularly, too (trying to do at least 30 minutes each day), though I have some major work test campaigns coming up and, in theory, a launch campaign, so also trying to manage expectations for myself.

You have the coolest job here so do what'cha gotta.

Small connection: One of the publishers I've worked with is doing the "Lunar Codex" which is sending some flash drives with artwork (books and pictures) to the Moon. It's a vanity thing but it's fun to watch.

The Confessions of Nat Turner: and Related Documents
Germans in America: A Concise History
The Oppermans

On Deck:
Dinotopia: A Land Apart from Time
Brewed in America: A History of Beer and Ale in the United States

Currently reading A Memory of Light. This will finish my Wheel of Time re-read.

Diving into another Romantasy with Assistant to the Villain - It's also a bit of wee cozy, so enjoying the mellow read, while waiting for the SL pick to get to my library location.

Re-reading an old favorite, The Half-Made World, which I still think is great. Bummed that the author hasn't published anything in about a decade since I wish there was more to read.

I’m just starting the audiobook of Rule of Wolves by Leigh Bardugo, which means I will soon have finished exploring the Grishaverse.

Finished up Old Man and the Sea, in my ongoing Hemingway kick. Evocative and visceral, I can see why it's a classic. An old Cuban fisherman still lives by the principles and informal strictures of the fishing community. He's poor as dirt but mostly has the respect of the locals, on account of his skills and (fading) strength. That's turning into tolerance though as his catches diminish.

So out he goes alone on a fishing trip one day after a long dry spell, only to hook a Marlin far bigger than he can easily handle. But he's a stubborn cuss so sticks it out. Includes many many descriptions of the action and his reaction to it as his body fails over the span of days. This is the "travelogue" part of literature that spanned at least several decades; I noticed it in 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea and it's in full force in The Sun Also Rises.

He gets the fish but can't control it. It gets eaten by sharks. Having failed in success he gets back to shore, to find that the locals have full respect for him once more. The skeleton is considered a wonder.

Hemingway is known to have said that there is no symbolism in the story. It's about an old man and a fish. While that cracks me up, I do see some forms of symbolism in the roles of the stubborn old man and the implacable object of the fish.

Incidentally I have thought about opening up a thread for Hemingway discussion. Not sure there is enough interest. Anybody?

John (Taloni) wrote: "Hemingway is known to have said that there is no symbolism in the story"

This is probably a response for your thread (if you were to create it), however I can well believe that this was Hemingway's intention, given his much vaunted aim of trying to only write "true" statements. By all accounts, his goal was to describe in a pure manner the struggle of the fisherman, immersing the reader in the experience. Of course, this goal rubs up against the fact that every reader brings their own baggage/expectations with them to a story and so will read whatever symbolism they want into the story, regardless of the author's intent.

^ Yeah...since I got no response to the above (well, except for yours) I figured there wasn't enough interest in Hemingway to do it.

Regarding the idea that we read into stories what we bring to them, I think that's definitely true. Probably worth discussing by itself, Hemingway or no.

Currently enjoying a fun pirate book The Adventures of Amina al-Sirafi.

John (Taloni) wrote: "^ Yeah...since I got no response to the above (well, except for yours) I figured there wasn't enough interest in Hemingway to do it.

Regarding the idea that we read into stories what we bring to t..."

I personally am not into Hemingway but would be up for a thread discussing classic literature more broadly.

Ruth wrote: "I personally am not into Hemingway but would be up for a thread discussing classic literature more broadly."

I'm up for that as well, although I guess the first discussion in that thread should be: how do you define "classic"? :)

My library hold on The Hollow Boy came in yesterday and I started listening to it this morning.

Steve wrote: "although I guess the first discussion in that thread should be: how do you define "classic"? :)"

My definition would be a book that has stood the test of time.

So at least 20 years old and still rated highly.

As much as Fourth Wing was rated highly in 2023, I highly doubt people will be talking about it in 2050 as a classic.

I feel the same about movies. Many are over hyped and go on to win the awards, but don't stand the test of time. Yet others that were snubbed, are among the most loved classics.

John (Taloni) wrote: "^ Yeah...since I got no response to the above (well, except for yours) I figured there wasn't enough interest in Hemingway to do it.

Regarding the idea that we read into stories what we bring to t..."

His work is outside the purview of the group, and there are plenty of Goodreads groups that do focus on classic mainstream literature.

Besides, I did my time with Dead White Male Authors in school and on my own, so I don’t feel the need to revisit the genre.

Steve wrote: "I'm up for that as well, although I guess the first discussion in that thread should be: how do you define "classic"? :)"

Anyone who has more money than I do is rich, and anything older than I am is an antique. Like Tassie Dave, antique person.

Tassie Dave wrote: "So at least 20 years old and still rated highly."
Remember the discussion that S&L should do more "older sci fi"? Twenty years includes fiction published after the Y2K meltdown that crippled human society on Earth. Not sure how "classic" that is.

Along those lines, did you know "Gravity's Rainbow" was published closer to the start of the Great Depression than today? Same with Anne McCaffrey's "Dragonriders of Pern."

While I get that this is a Sci-Fi and fantasy based book club, we do often have threads that go off on many other subjects. And I don't think there should be any problem starting up one about "Classic" literature.

If someone is not interested in participating, that is totally cool as well. Heck I'm not sure how much I will participate. But this is an interesting group of readers we have here, and it might be some fun conversations to have surrounding some of those works.

Yes; although there are other book clubs dedicated to classics, sometimes I might want my hot takes on the symbolism of the eyes of Doctor T. J. Eckleburg to come from Murderbot fans who live in the mines of Tasmania, rather than a bunch of people who don't know their Mistborn from their Gentlemen Bastards.

Just finished Magician: Apprentice by Raymond Feist. I enjoyed this quite a bit. I've been aware of the book probably for close to 40 years but it had never been at the top of my list as a must read. I think it may be because I was aware it was based on an RPG I had never played so I just dismissed it. It turns out it was well written so I'm glad I got to it. There were some oddities like the big time jumps between chapters and the main character disappearing 2/3 through the book but I didn't think they detracted from it. I'd like to continue on with the next book at some point if for no other reason than to see what happened to Pug.
Starting Bookshops & Bonedust by Travis Baldree next.

Finished up my Wheel of Time re-read. This was the fantasy series that I feel in love with as a young teenager. It gets really long in places and over the 14 book series the story does bog down in books 7-11. Matt becomes the shining star that keeps the story really interesting during those books. It ends with a great intensity over the books 12-14.

Currently I am doing a re-read of "Cradle" Series by Will Wight.

I've finally started The Grace of Kings. It's been on my TBR for years.

I just finished Paladin's Grace. I'm not sure what I was expecting, but it wasn't a straight-up rom-com (albeit with a fantasy setting)! I did enjoy it quite a bit, though I'm not sure if I'll go on with the series.

Next up I got Station Eternity from the library.

I just started Light Bringer, and I'm not sure if I'm ready for it yet.

I wound up reading the five book "Darkship Thieves" series from Sarah Hoyt.

I've enjoyed Libertarian SFF ever since The Probability Broach back in the 80s. Darkship Thieves won the Prometheus award a decade or so back, so why not. And Sarah Hoyt (or her publisher, kinda unclear if that's her loanout company) put them all on Kindle Unlimited. I like to support that as well, great way to let people try something out and the author gets paid for page reads along the way.

Gonna kinda whip through all five. The first was good space opera, some silliness (like an asteroid on an "erratic orbit" that I mentally steelmanned as some deliberate orbital manipulations) and a load of Libertarian advocacy. Space asteroid citizens live by Libertarian principles, have at it and show me how life can be better that way! (Most of this stuff doesn't work in the real world but it's SFF, I can dream.)

A thoroughly repugnant Earth government gets revealed along the way. That gets more development in book 2. Not to spoil or get into lots of detail, it has to do with genetic engineering and the insane lengths a group of rulers would go to keep ruling. It was so dark that I kept flashing on the Pernese dragonrider mantra for going Between "Black, blacker, blackest" following which you pop out of Between but for this "Bleak, bleaker, bleakest" and hoping the book would pop out to something brighter. (Hint: We don't.) Which actually fits the rest of the series.

By the third book we're into a retread of the American revolution. That's actually the best part. There's a religion of "Usains" that seek to recreate the American revolution, and believe that George Washington will return (kinda mixing Ol' George and Jesus there) to lead them into a fresh new world. Welp, I've read worse things. Of course actual revolutions are bloody things and there's lots o' death. But, the most hilarious part is that the two leaders of the revolution are a gay couple. Hey, why not? Little bit of Plato's Republic

Fourth book is a rerun of the French revolution to which all I can say is bleah. I prefer aspirational SFF and there's none of that here. And way too many guillotine sequences. It's well written and full of historical references, but sooo dark.

Fifth book, there's a return of some people previously cast as good persons on an interstellar trip. Nope, they're a bunch of violent psychopaths with a bioweapon to wipe out humanity. This was actually written before COVID. It's just a little too close to actual events, as our government quietly acknowledges that the lab leak theory isn't a conspiracy and is plausible. What in God's name were they DOING? And are they still doing it?

There is quite a bit of history, art history, political history...yeah. Sarah Hoyt was born and raised in Portugal and has a convert's love of American history, plus what she learned in Europe.

They were all decent insomnia reads and I'm glad to provide the page reads. More bleak than I wanted unlike, say, the Lost Fleet which was aspirational throughout, but also not boring or repetitive in places like the Lost Fleet. There may be a sixth book. I'll probably read that when it comes out.

Hoyt is a Sad Puppies leader. She can gfh.

The Spear Cuts Through Water I loved it. Lit-Fantasy, I think I got it from a list of novels listed for the Ursula K. Le Guin prize. It reminded me somewhat of The Empress of Salt and Fortune - a story about storytelling, the downfall of an emperor, and the ones who made it happen.

The author used an interesting literary device I haven't seen before. Fairly often when describing a set of events he inserts a line of commentary in italics from the people who were there, like somebody telling a story and others piping up to add their experience. That device takes on even more significance near the end of the book in a surprising shift.

Oaken wrote: "The Spear Cuts Through Water I loved it. Lit-Fantasy, … The author used an interesting literary device I haven't seen before. Fairly often when describing a set of events he inserts a line of commentary in italics from the people who were there, like somebody telling a story and others piping up to add their experience. That device takes on even more significance near the end of the book in a surprising shift."

That does sound interesting. I’ve seen that used in biographies where they’ll insert recollections from others, but I haven’t encountered that in a novel.

Trike wrote: "Hoyt is a Sad Puppies leader. She can gfh."

I missed (or didn't remember) this whole thing. Probably missed, I was having some health issues around that time.

What a crazy story! The crazy thing is I read all different authors even if I don't agree with them, if I like their story. It can be problematic at time separating the art from the artist (and I know this has come up before)...but write good books is my response. Crazy times...

Just finished Bookshops & Bonedust by Travis Baldree. I liked it even more than Legends & Lattes. Makes me want to move to a nice little seaside town with a cozy bookshop to hang out in.
Starting Magician: Master by Raymond Feist next.

I finished reading Mirror Dance by Lois McMaster Bujold. Game changer novel. Miles will never be the same again. I also read New Spring (Wheel of Time prequel) by Robert Jordan. This novel is interesting because of the POV of Moiraine and Lan twenty years before the main series. I am reading The Martians by Kim Stanley Robinson. It contains a series of short stories set in his Mars Trilogy universe. I plan to read Memory by Lois McMaster Bujold next.

I wanted to revisit the early-Heinlein generation ship book "Orphans of the Sky." It was available in a twofer along with some of his early shorts under the title of the best known of them, "Man Who Sold The Moon." Orphans appears in the second half of the book so I decided to reread the earlier shorts first.

That was a mix bag, not because the early ones are dated (they are) or bad, but rather that they are so very good. This collection includes what is for me probably the most emotional SF story I've ever read.

But anyway, to start. Campbell wrote an intro when these were first collected, apparently in 1949. I know I first read these stories in other collections in the mid 1970s. Campbell goes on about how Heinlein finessed worldbuilding through storytelling in a way he hadn't seen before. It's old hat now but apparently Heinlein was among the first to avoid the "block of text" world intros. In any event he did it skillfully even in early work.

Life-Line: Heinlein's first sale. A man invents a way to determine how long a person will live. Includes a takedown of snobby academics and a thoroughly cynical take on how far business will go to protect its interests. Was he even exaggerating? A good story, not as polished as Heinlein would become later on, but clearly worthy.

Let There Be Light: Early concept of a solar panel and its possible side uses. Continues Heinlein's paranoia about business, but with Pinkertons in the recent past, was it even paranoia?

The Roads Must Roll: The past of the future, an innovation that never happened. "Roads" are beltways that move people over distances short and long. They are vulnerable to sabotage, and a group of malcontents does exactly that. Includes a look into the day's national discussion on Unions, both the good they provided and the opportunities for abuse.

Blowups Happen: Earth has become addicted to heavy power use, even with the solar panels of Light providing most onsite / residential power. The entire economy depends on a nuclear reaction that both creates electricity and functions as a breeder reactor for isotopes used elsewhere. Except that the reactor is in a constant state of danger and may blow up at any moment. It's not known how bad that would be; the official story is that at most it would just shut down. The MCs are extremely concerned and, among their suppositions, is that the Moon may have once had an intelligent race, and the craters are their own reactors blowing up. The science is blatantly wrong by today's standards but fine for the day. Another instance of the days of future past. Probably the best part of this story is the psychologist who is also a physicist (shades of the "extremely competent man" of Lensman, likely a deliberate reference). He points out that humans use symbols internally, and that their ability to take effective action depends on how well those symbols map to the real world.

Man Who Sold The Moon: Elon Musk could not more be the MC of this story, DD Harriman, if he tried. And I'm thinking he is trying. Harriman has always wanted to go to the Moon, and in middle age sells his rather impressive holdings to fund an attempt. The story is full of cynical double-dealing as Harriman sets up charities to fluff up his companies to obtain the investment needed for the effort. He manages situations and egos to get what he needs. He also deliberately cuts out the US government on the theory that limiting space travel to one country would lead to war. In any event he succeeds but also fails: The ship is too small to include him. And that leads to...

Requiem: Actually written first, this story almost but not quite meshes with MWSTM. DD Harriman is at the end of his life. He built the industry that led to space travel and the lunar colony. Yet he can not go himself, as medical issues keep him grounded. No pilot would take him. No reputable pilot. And so he pines away, Moses looking at the promised land every night, unable to enter. Until he finds some disreputable pilots willing to work with him. If you've seen Space Cowboys you know the end to this.

More to the point, Requiem is the story of our own space program. As an elementary school student I saw men walk on the moon. 50 years later, we have not gone back. Young-me wanted to go to space; older-me would have been glad just to see other people do it. We have not. Fifty years after Apollo we sit here, Earthbound, as the planets beckon. And we do not answer.

Started on Alastair Reynolds - Machine Vendetta (The Prefect #3)

I prefer the UK cover. Don't make me take out the whiphound.

And then, on to Orphans of the Sky. Amusingly, I found myself a little impatient with the book after reading the gloriously emotional last two stories of the previous collection. The book felt dated when I first read it ~45 years ago. It actually feels less dated now, or I guess now that the Niven and McCaffrey I was reading as it came out then, is also considered dated.

I remember being annoyed at the ending having so much attributed to luck when an easy rewrite would have set up a different situation. On reread, some of that is actually set up, but the ending does mention luck over and over again. And then faulty memory. I recall the ending being half a page; it's more like ten pages. Might there be another version? I think it's just me.

Some good generation ship shenanigans. There was a mutiny 50 years in and too much knowledge was lost. Now we are several hundred years later on. The ship functions but the inhabitants think it is the entirety of the universe.

There's early-SF silliness like a character with two heads, the standard "mutation" trope. Other parts are subtly done: The men of the ship treat women as third class citizens who aren't even named until they are married. This is treated by the characters as just part of their society, but the reader can easily infer that civilization has fallen, badly, and the inhabitants live near barbarism.

The book is in two parts, published as separate stories and mashed up into a barely-long-enough novel length for the day at 160 pages. The first part includes discovery of the main controls and a viewing screen, and then some people being forced to accept knowledge. Which they do. And which I thought was waaay too easy.

It was, because the second part includes people actively finding justifications for not believing what they plainly saw. A sly commentary on people doing exactly the same in history and now.

There's also commentary on how revolutions don't turn out how you would hope, and that the leader you supported may be a bigger bastard than the one you fought against. We'd see the theme of revolution again repeatedly, most notably in Moon is a Harsh Mistress but also in the YA Red Planet, referenced in Podkayne...and then there's the Venus rebellion in a short story, can't recall the name.

Still dated, but fun to read. I'm glad I revisited. The ending remains puzzlingly badly handled, not in plot but in reasoning, and could have been handled better. But it was 1941 and modern SF was just getting its legs.

John (Taloni) wrote: "And then, on to Orphans of the Sky. Amusingly, I found myself a little impatient with the book after reading the gloriously emotional last two stories of the previous collection. The book felt date..."

All those stories except the Orphan ones, but including stories from other collections, are in The Past Through Tomorrow.
It is all the "short" stories (some are pretty long) in his Future History starting with Lifeline up to Methuselah's Children (the introduction of Lazarus Long). It includes a chart at the front placing the stories on the timeline of this universe. A lot of the novels that came in the 70's and 80's are also part of this universe.
My favorite "revolution" story of his, "If This Goes On...", is included. It's about an uprising against the religious fanatics that have taken over the government.

Tamahome wrote: "Started on Alastair Reynolds - Machine Vendetta (The Prefect #3)

I prefer the UK cover. Don't make me take out the whiphound. "

I had that one on Audible Pre-Order and will be getting started on it very soon. Yeah, US covers have definatly taken a nose dive into mediocrity the last few years.