The Sword and Laser discussion

Am I the only one squicked out by the budding relationship between Dan and Kirby? Not so much the age thing but it does not come at all from a fair place. Kirby is clearly still traumatized by her earlier encounter with Harper and there is a huge power gap between Dan and Kirby right where that trauma lives.

Dan holds all the cards; he is Kirby's boss, he is the key to her being able to access the information she needs to pursue her attacker, he has the relationships with external players such as the police that can help Kirby move things forward or bring her grinding to a halt.

I don't have an issue with the author exploring that power imbalance - that's what author's do. They set up situations and let them play it out. But she leaves it unresolved which I find is an odd choice for something that is very out of line.

Did it need to be resolved? Life and feelings are messy. They don't always get resolved.

Yes it is icky. An older man falling for a much younger woman isn't unusual. It isn't stated exactly how old Dan is, but there are enough clues to figure he is at least around 50. Kirby is 26.

Kirby, most likely, sees Dan as a mentor/father figure.

Dan himself internalises that what he is feeling towards Kirby is wrong. He even tries to justify it to a work colleague as feeling paternal towards Kirby. While at the same time knowing that his feelings are stronger.

Most men in that situation would do the right thing and not let it get past that point. But Dan does overreach and kisses her and gets rebuffed.

That should have been the point in which Kirby let him down gently and reminded him of the age difference and power dynamics, instead of telling him "I can't right now"

The same when he is shot and confesses to liking the kiss, she says "if you want to kiss me again ....."

For a desperate, lonely man, that makes him think "So you're telling me there's a chance?"

In real life Dan would, eventually, come to his senses. If he has any close male friends, then this is the time for them to have the 'man to man' talk about what is appropriate.

Not the work colleague, who's solution is to "f*** her and get it out of your system"

You would hope that Kirby would let Dan down gently and he'd move on with his life and find a more age appropriate love interest.

^ On that note...certainly unusual and in most cases inappropriate. Probably inappropriate here. Which isn't the same as saying it wouldn't happen.

(view spoiler)[For starters, why did Kirby say, "if you want to kiss me again ....." Dan had just gone into a dangerous situation for her, taken a life-threatening injury while saving her life and giving her the chance to end the serial killer's attacks and put a cap to his time loop. Dan did that because of the feelings he had for her. That is among the few things she could say to him to get him out of the house and not simply lay down and die.

Did she mean it? Hard to know. If you'll do anything to save the guy who just saved your life, leading him on is one of those things. She doesn't have to follow through once he's in the hospital. Or out of it.

But, she might even if she isn't feeling it in the moment. Kirby has already tried to be with her own peers. She is a freak show to them. a curiosity at best, to be exploited at worst.

And Dan? He lost his career and his wife trying to get justice for crime victims. He cares. Kirby chose him because he had tried to help, back when she was attacked.

Is that enough for a relationship? Because, who else would either date? They have a shared pain that could give rise to a relationship. It wouldn't be a normal one. But they are not normal people. (hide spoiler)]

Yeah I had assumed the final chapter comment (view spoiler)[by Kirby was just a way to keep Dan conscious until help arrived. (hide spoiler)]

Could it work? Maybe, but unlikely to last.

Dan is lonely and getting the attention of a much younger woman (for whatever reason) would be exciting.

Kirby is a young woman with a tragic past and flawed relationships with men.

At best I could see tham having a close friendship. With Dan continuing a mentor/father figure role.

I haven't watched the TV series past Episode 1, but I assume the reason they cast an older actress (Elisabeth Moss) would be to have it less icky, for the inevitable interest from Dan.

The actors are only 6 years apart in age, opposed to the 24+ years of the book.

I guess for me it was less the age difference - which I know some people have issues with - and more with the power imbalance. The one with less power often feels some kind of obligation to reciprocate because...consequences. Or, in the case of a trauma victim, accepts an inappropriate relationship because...issues. This scenario hits both.

Real life example, I know of a guy who was over 50 dating a woman at our company who was 30-ish. She was in an entirely different division of the company though so no reporting issues. Fast forward 20+ years and they are still happily married, one grown son.

I can think of three examples of people having relationships with individuals who were much closer to them in age but also had a reporting relationship. None of them ended well.

Edit: for the record, none of these people are me :)

Tassie Dave wrote: "Yeah I had assumed the final chapter comment [spoilers removed]"

Agreed. It reminded me of something I read a while back, (view spoiler)[that battlefield nurses would flirt openly with newly arrived wounded soldiers. The idea was that the interaction would get them excited, give them something to think about besides their wounds and pain, and keep them alive long enough to be saved by a doctor.

So, to me, that's the reason for the statement in the moment. Whether or not she meant it is another question. I don't think we're meant to know if they have a relationship after. It's not relevant to the story, so it's left to dangle. (hide spoiler)]

Remember we are seeing Kirby and Dan in the early 90's. I feel I am close to Kirby's age and sadly that is how it was back then, F her to get it out of system stuff. I was surprised Dan was so aware that there was an ick factor. I had a guy grab my ass at work once and I didn't do anything. Except talk to the other girls who knew too. My first real corporate job in late 80s. I'm not saying it is right, but my work experience with co-workers then and now is a lot different.

I do think he comes to the senses and have a close friendship. Not lovers though.