The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910 discussion

Welcome to our first read of 2024-Daniel Deronda.

Book 1, which comprises this section and chapters 8-10 is titled The Spoiled Child . Eliot also sets us up to start the story in medias res as she writes in the chapter 1 motto. So chapters one and two find us at some sort of gambling establishment, where we meet a young woman, Gwendolen Harleth, who first wins and then loses at the table, and is observed by (and observes) a handsome young man of unknown background, Daniel Deronda. She is then summoned back to her home due to an apparently drastic worsening of the family fortunes. Chapters 3 to 7 then take us back to some of the history of this young woman and her family and situation, and we get a glimpse of her personality and the effect she has on both men and women.

What did you think of the opening scenes in chapters 1&2? Does anyone know if, by this time, it was completely socially acceptable for a young woman to be gambling like this? What was your initial impression of our eponymous hero, Daniel Deronda?

Do you agree that Gwendolen is a spoiled child?

What did her relationship with Rex and the rest of her family tell you about her?

Please share your thoughts on this first section, with or without reference to the above questions.

To me the first chapter was a masterpiece: Eliot delivers Deronda’s observations with such precision, like a fine etching. When we turn to Gwendolen, however, I’m less pleased—she is the sort of character I most loathe, smugly pleased with herself and using her charms so selfishly. Not a drop of humility in her, and devoting all her gifts to self-aggrandizement, caring for nobody. Yes! A spoiled child, and a tyrant to boot.

Interesting question—what did her relationship with Rex tell about her? She knows he is in love with her but is so in love with herself that she has no concept of the pain of unrequited love. Even though his is an immature form of bewitchment, it should still inspire at least the kindness of pity. But she seeks his company for her own convenience, uses him for her own ends, and then reacts with loathing when he has the nerve to declare himself. Very cruel.

I am hoping that, once we get past the extended flashback, the financial reverses mentioned at the start will lead eventually to maturity and a more human approach to others, though she’ll have to work very hard to gain my esteem after this beginning. Her mother certainly won’t be able to lift a finger for the family’s benefit, so Gwendolen, as the strong one, will have to step up—if she can get past her pridefulness.

The gambling scene, which I think might be in Baden-Baden in Germany, reminded me of the last scenes of Vanity Fair by Thackeray.
I think it has a negative nuance for a young lady to be almost unchaperoned in such a place. However, Baden-Baden was a famous spa resort in the 19th century and the casino was some diversion there.
I was wondering what led her there, but hope to get to know this in the coming chapters.

She is a spoiled child in a certain way, but I think this also has to do with the guilt of her mother, as her childhood with the stepfather was not ideal. Her mother tries to protect her in a way without realizing that she is completely under Gwendolen's spell. Gwendolen as a consequence thinks the world of herself and nothing of anybody else. It is interesting that even her mother admits in the last chapter of this section that she had not been aware that her daughter depended on her as it rather seems the other way round.
Her beauty and her being the center of attention have made the situation even worse. She lacks any self-reflection and is overconfident in everything she does (see the hunting chase and also her gambling when she loses almost everything again). She thinks she has self-control, but loses it by her ambition. I think she realized it a bit when she went to pawn her necklace at the pawnbroker and even more when she got it back through the stranger (probably as she herself guesses Daniel Deronda). That was a humiliation in a way.

She also coquettes around everyone and is not really open for any criticism. She even mocks everyone falling for her like Mr. Middleton and even Rex, but is the last scene her first self-reflection? She is worried that she cannot love, but only hate people.

Now I had a little of strange thought about her last name, but it is really very far-fetched and came mainly from her gambling in the first chapters. "Harleth" seems very close to "harlot". Might there be something in it? The way she spins all the people around her finger, even Mr. Gascoigne in a way about her horse.

The last name also stood out to me as a possible foreshadowing. I’m wondering, at this point, how much of Gwen being spoiled is her nature, and how much comes from nurture. I feel like I don’t really know her yet, or maybe it’s impossible to know her. She certainly seems made up of the superficial and manipulation. She seeks constant entertainment and attention from everyone around her. Like Abagail indicated, I can’t see me liking her as a character. It would take a complete turnaround in her for that to happen.

Also Elliot, as always, clearly shows her society. Anna who is a better person is less sought after due to her appearance. The main goal in a woman’s life was a good marriage - meaning financially secure. The women remind me of trophies for the men.

Great points from all of you!
The opening chapter, and especially the gambling scene, is the key to the whole novel. It contains everything.

Daniel wonders whether Gwendolen is beautiful or not, and, deep down, whether she is good or not (the dichotomy of beauty and goodness). He seems powerfully attracted to her, but inwardly he seems to question her consistency.

We are shown a glimpse of Daniel's generosity and helpfulness when he redeemed the necklace. Is this the start of a romance?

The first scene illustrates her excessive self-awareness and self-absorption (yes, Adria), if not self-admiration.
Then, in this cosmopolitan context of a society in movement, and in the chapters that follow, we see that Gwendolen is not rooted in any place, in any tradition. Her family history is marked by many changes: her mother has married a second time, what about her relationship with her stepfather? Her background is unprecise. I agree with Deborah: will we get to know Gwendolen better?

Finally, gambling is a very important element in this novel, but I do not want to say too much about it.
(I also agree with Hedi about Gwendolen's name. It has been noted by many scholars)

A few things I had noted on reading.

In chapter 1 an onlooker describes her as having a sort of Lamia beauty which my notes say refers to a snake enchantress-certainly a double edged compliment!

In chapter 3 it is mentioned that Offendene is not the home of her childhood, and that she doesn't really have roots anywhere. But this blessed persistence in which affection can take root had been wanting in Gwendolen's life. Although referring to land/home, it might also be referring to the disruptions and perhaps chaos in her family life leaving her somewhat lacking in familial feeling.

Always she was the princess in exile...How was this to accounted for? The answer may seem to lie quite on the surface-in her beauty, a certain unusualness about her, a decision of will which made itself felt in her graceful movements and clear unhesitating tones...This potent charm added to the fact that she was the eldest daughter, towards whom her mama had always been in an apologetic state of mind for the evils brought on her by a step-father...a strong determination to have what was pleasant, with a total fearlessness in making themselves disagreeable or dangerous when they did not get it...Gwendolen might not still have played the queen in exile, if only she had kept her inborn energy of egoistic desire, and her power of inspiring fear as to what she might say or do. However she had the charm, and those who feared her were also fond of her; the fear and the fondness being perhaps both heightened by what may be called the iridescence of her character-the play of various, nay, contrary tendencies.

So we see Gwendolen as one of those very attractive young people who succeed even despite some unpleasant characteristics on the force of their appearance, their ability to inspire love even when sometimes cruel or careless of others, and likely their ability to manipulate others to some extent. We've all known them and been simultaneously charmed and annoyed by them.

Gwendolen's level of self-involvement makes her hard to like, but I was moved when she cried and clung to her mother at the end of chapter 7, upset because she feared she'd never be able to love anyone. Our first reading may have ended there based solely on the length of the section, but I think it was a great place to pause and consider what had happened in the novel up to that point.

The way Eliot structured Middlemarch and this book, weaving together different storylines, fascinates and impresses me. Though the book is titled Daniel Deronda we've only seen him briefly so far and haven't gotten much into his story yet. It sets up an anticipation in me.

Jaylia3 wrote: "Gwendolen's level of self-involvement makes her hard to like, but I was moved when she cried and clung to her mother at the end of chapter 7, upset because she feared she'd never be able to love an..."

Yes I agree, as I also agree with Abigail’s assertion that the first chapter was a masterpiece. These first few chapters are entirely devoted to Gwendolen, skilfully describing a young woman, full of self-conceit, who expects everything she wants to be laid at her feet. But the perceptive reader never quite forgets her reaction to a man she never even speaks to, and whose two actions resonate with her so profoundly. The vivd descriptions of her life before that brief first encounter with Daniel Deronda explain perfectly her reactions to his ‘interference’ at the spa.

Of course her upbringing seems to have contributed greatly to what she has become and having also acquired ‘beautiful’ features, this has only exacerbated her sense of importance. The housekeeper’s not so affectionate sobriquet of ‘Her Royal Highness’ was attributed to Gwendolen on her first day of arrival at Offendene. From that day forward she fulfilled that role exquisitely, with dismissive disdain towards everyone, including her mother except when she needed something including that cry on her shoulder in Chapter VII.

Frances mentioned that Gwendolen was likened to a Lamia and the word ‘serpent’ was certainly used as a not very flattering description of her on more than one occasion. ‘ all green and silver, and winds her neck about a little more than usual.’

She was also compared to a Neireid, a sea nymph from Greek mythology, but to me she reminds me more of a pitcher plant. Just like a pitcher plant feeds from the insects it attracts, Gwendolen fed from the adulation and subservience of all those around her.



That strikingly alluring carnivorous freak of nature attracts unsuspecting prey, firstly to the rim of its jug-like flower, before arousing greater curiosity to find out more about what’s inside. Once over the rim the slippery slide into the doom of the chemical soup (that is Gwendolen’s unfeeling indifference) leaves the helpless victim destroyed.

It is why the wise Daniel Deronda did not make up his mind about Gwendolen in Chapter 1. He stayed well away even from the edge, but nevertheless, his influence from afar shook her whole being, as if Daniel had been the only one to get anywhere near that Oh so well hidden ‘goodness’ she possessed. The author described it so perfectly in Chapter VII.

’ For some of the goodness which Rex believed in was there. Goodness is a large, often a prospective word; like harvest, which at one stage when we talk of it lies all underground, with an indeterminate future; is the germ prospering in the darkness? at another, it has put forth delicate green blades, and by-and-by the trembling blossoms are ready to be dashed off by an hour of rough wind or rain. Each stage has its peculiar blight, and may have the healthy life choked out of it by a particular action of the foul land which rears or neighbors it, or by damage brought from foulness afar.’

Shrewd to zero in on that passage! A timely remindsr that at this stage we can’t know how Gwendolen will develop. At this age she is a product of circumstance, but it is how she will react to new events in her life that will shape her character.

Trev wrote: "but to me she reminds me more of a pitcher plant. Just like a pitcher plant feeds from the insects it attracts, Gwendolen fed from the adulation and subservience of all those around her.
..."

What a great analogy Trev! I was thinking that Gwendolen reminds me very vaguely of Austen's Emma, because they're both so self-confident and (to me) initially unlikeable. But your pitcher plant idea is going to stick with me.

Yes, Emma was in my mind as well! Perhaps why I had such a strong negative reaction to Gwendolen.

About Gwendolen - I was reminded of Middlemarch and Rosamond. Also there is a spoiled young woman in Deerbrook by Harriet Martineau. In a way, Rex is spoiled also. He may not have a fine horse, but he assumes the universe will line up with his desires, as it generally has before.

I adore Emma, and I don't think she belongs in the same category as Gwendolen. I think Emma tries a bit more to do what's right, she is just mistaken about it much of the time. Emma at least reflects on other people's feelings after it is brought to her attention how she hurt them. Gwendolen does a couple of time try to make things up to people, but it seems to me more in order that they start worshipping her again.

I thought the gambling scene was an excellent start, very well described with the nude cherubs and other details. A nice change from many 19th-century novels that start by describing the setting of a village.

There are a couple of humorous lines sneaked in, like how Mr. Gaskin had added a diphthong (we were introduced to him as Gascoigne.)

I haven't read The Way We Live Now but have read some other Trollope and this does seem to fit his world. He regularly has hunting scenes as well.

I agree with you Robin. The first chapter is perfect and I see it as a concentrate of the whole novel - even if we don't notice on a first read.

I smiled too that Mr Gaskin added a diphthong and became Mr Gascoigne. It sounded more Huguenot like perhaps. He sounds more driven by appearances than by a deep faith.

Perhaps Mr. Gaskin/Gascoigne's goal was to aspire to Norman ancestry? “Oh yes, we came over with the Conqueror.”

If your edition doesn't translate the French, the first quote is a dialogue - "Marriage is an honorable state and everyone should practice it" to which the other says "But if x and y immediately get married, the novel would be over too soon."

The other one says "Finding out that the sun doesn't revolve around the earth doesn't diminish my sense of my importance" - after Gwendolen was criticized by Klesmer.

I thought I had read this long ago, but maybe it was Adam Bede. This book doesn't seem at all familiar. My guess is that Gwendolen will fall for someone as superior to her as she is to her surroundings, and it won't immediately be returned. Maybe then she will marry someone else out of spite against the person she really wants (the Scarlett O'Hara move).

It is an option, Abigail. It is very much about appearances!

Interesting. Due to the gambling scene and Gwen’s demeanor, the book reminds me of madame bovary

I think Chapter 1 is so important for how Eliot defines Gwendolen. She has the name, the looks and the habits of a spoiled child, entitled and privileged. Even the title is leading readers to make the same sort of assumptions about this gorgeous, selfish girl, that society made. But Eliot is, I think, really saying something about her precarious situation in life with the metaphor of gambling, and asking the reader to think about what might drive her recklessness and her 'selfishness'. She is, like all supposedly privileged women of the time, being set up to be an asset in the marriage market. She has no function in her society other than to be married off, and so her life is a gamble. She only has power over her life to the extent she has choice. This is in complete contrast to Daniel's situation, who is, as someone adopted into fortune, far more secure financially. There is definitely a prompt for readers to think beyond the appearance of things, and beyond society's assumptions about what makes a woman 'spoilt' and 'selfish'. It is really beautifully done.

Caroline wrote: "I think Chapter 1 is so important for how Eliot defines Gwendolen. She has the name, the looks and the habits of a spoiled child, entitled and privileged. Even the title is leading readers to make ..."

Good analysis! Gwendolyn only has control in areas of dress and entertainment. She is going to be "sold" in marriage eventually.

I am highly enjoying all of your comments.

I believe Gwendolyn puts on a facade with her behavior, and two moments we were able to see through that: when she was frightened by the ghostly painting at the end of their stage play, and at the end of the reading when she is distraught over the thought that she may never actually fall in love with anyone. I have seen situational behaviors in myself through my life where I think - now why did I react that way, or I always seem to do X. There has to be some modicum of reflection there. She sees herself different from those around her and wonders if she will ever have what they have. Could this be a protective response to the upheaval of her childhood? She certainly had a lack of control there, and her "airs" can be seen as a way to control her situation - and the extreme manner of her behavior tells me of the underlying desperation she is feeling. Perhaps that moment of fear during the play is alluding to the fear she really feels about her life and her situation underneath. Yes, her behavior is horrid and cruel, and I don't mean to necessarily engender compassion for Gwendolyn, but that doesn't mean these things aren't true.

Several of you have spoken of the presence of gambling. I wonder, in this vein, if the path Gwendolyn is pursuing in life - because of the societal situation at the time - doesn't lead to a more precarious situation for herself. Not following the status quo, even if the status quo is oppressive (as stated by Eliot), constitutes risk, especially in a woman's future. That she is playing with fire. Which she is, as Gascoigne is worried about getting her married off. And so in the opening scenes, the gambling situation could be a tell of the precarious path Gwendolyn has put herself in - and risks she is definitely willing (compelled?) to take. And how she responds when they don't pan out. I see her as a survivalist perhaps always functioning in emergency triage mode. That could be both a response to how she sees life in her world, and a continued recreation on her own part because she can't see life as anything else for herself.

Caroline wrote: "I think Chapter 1 is so important for how Eliot defines Gwendolen. She has the name, the looks and the habits of a spoiled child, entitled and privileged. Even the title is leading readers to make ..."

’”You are a pretty young lady–to laugh at other people’s calamities,” said Mr Gascoigne.’

Yes, Gwendolen was one of those millions of girls and women of all classes living a precarious existence with few life choices.

However, I don’t think that her precarious situation in life should be seen as reason to treat everyone not just abominably but also cruelly, as she does her sisters, her mother and the men she likes to flirt with (but refuses to be made love to.)

Of course it was entirely right that Gwendolen should not have been satisfied with her lot in life, but it wasn’t right that she should blame/take out her dissatisfaction on the people around her. (a thoroughly modern trait by the way.) Her despairing cry to her mother in chapter VII was……..

“I shall never love anybody. I can’t love people. I hate them.”

To kill your sister’s pet bird because it competes with your singing prowess smacks of a selfish ruthlessness arising out of something more than just being in an unfortunate situation. Gwendolen had the choice to treat people decently but she decided to do the opposite.

Her lack of a religious belief did not automatically mean leading a life of amorality but the absence of any guidance that she respected did her no good at all when it came to making choices.

Her reaction to the two people who actually revealed to her that she was less than perfect was telling. To the famous music expert’s remarks on her singing she was sulkily defiant and, after a while, almost dismissive. However, Deronda’s actions had much more impact and led, probably for the first time in her life, to a touch of humility. I felt sure that the money from the pawned necklace would be used defiantly at the gambling table in much the same way when she had thrown away all her winnings under his watchful gaze. But when that package arrived at her door she was outraged,…..and humbled. Gwendolen flew back home like wounded bird.

Yes, the pet bird was going too far, punishing both the innocent creature and the sister for no good reason. (She couldn't just move the bird to another room while she was singing? I suppose she wouldn't move herself because she was also playing the piano?)

These days someone mistreating or killing an animal is a huge red flag, but possibly it wasn't considered as serious at a time when people regularly drowned kittens and played nasty tricks on dogs. Still, it's quite a step further from just ignoring her mother's request at night or regularly insulting her sisters.

I am enjoying it so far. Some comments:
- As others have noted, the casino scene is a great one to open a story with;
- In this Eliot novel I get a bit of a reminder of both of my favorite Victorian authors, Hardy and Trollope. Hardy in the character of Gwendolyn, because my feelings toward her remind me of how I felt toward Return of the Native's Eustacia Vye; a beautiful woman who, while not a good person, is not evil so still manages to capture my empathy and favor. Trollope, in the social class and social commentary Eliot is addressing.
- I do like Eliot's ability to portray various societal types, from the characters here to the more rural ones in The Mill on the Floss, my favorite of hers, probably because it most reminds me of a Hardy novel
- I gather that this novel, like Middlemarch, will pursue stories of one male and one female protagonist. If so, a different title would have been preferable. I think Middlemarch is a more representative and classic title than "Dorothea Brooke" "Miss Brooke" or 'Doctor Lydgate.'
- Since there appears to be no town at the story center here, perhaps 'Daniel and Gwendolyn' would have worked best, although I do think Deronda has a rhythmic sound to it.

I have just finished listening to the chapters on Audible while driving in my car. This is a new way of listening for me and as I am in Italy with chaotic traffic, it's proving quite a challenge. Hopefully I'm not missing too much because there's a lot of detail and character description, which is absolutely fantastic. I think that Gwendolyn is splendid in her terribleness. Eliot's little details remind me frequently of Jane Austen's family dynamics and plots. Totally agree the first chapter is masterpiece. It's intriguing why Eliot chooses to omit Deronda completely afterwards so I'm absolutely fascinated to see how Eliot will re-introduce him back into the story. I can't see the resemblance to Thomas Hardy at the moment, in the comparison of Gwendolyn to Eustacia Vye but I'll be interested to see if my opinion changes on this as the story continues. I actually prefer Gwendolyn to Emma who I find irritating. Gwendolyn is just so terrible that you can't help almost liking her for it, and admiring how she behaves in every situation where her worth is threatened. I particularly loved the deecription of her behaviour after she sang and the German pianist tore her singing apart... she just moved away. How she has managed to grow up so graceful and self-possessed is remarkable. Eliot has managed in her first few chapters to paint detailed pictures of so many diverse characters I feel as if I know them quite intimately already, which is incredible for the depth and breadt

Natalie wrote: ". I can't see the resemblance to Thomas Hardy at the moment, in the comparison of Gwendolyn to Eustacia Vye but I'll be interested to see if my opinion changes on this as the story continues. ."

Don't look too hard for it as I'm not sure anyone else would ever see the comparison. I'm such a Hardy fan that I seek out such comparisons and I'm likely seeing comparisons to his characters that others would need a microscope to see.

I think Austen's Emma is dissimilar to Gwendolyn and Eustacia as neither of the latter two would make the efforts to try and bring happiness to others that Emma does. While Emma is a big buttinsky and can emotionally hurt and inflict her 'idea' of happiness on others, she does seek ways for others to be happy.

’ Gwendolen with a passionate movement thrust necklace, cambric, scrap of paper, and all into her _necessaire_,pressed her handkerchief against her face, and after pausing a minute or two to summon back her proud self-control, went to join her friends. ’

I am always intrigued by the smaller elements of the Victorian way of life and so I had to find out what Gwendolen’s ‘necessaire’ might have looked like. Here is a typical example that seems to suit Gwendolen’s personality.



I was also fascinated to find out that Mr. Gascoigne/Gaskin’s Inverness Cape (more famously associated with Sherlock Holmes) is still trendy today in some circles. They are still being manufactured by firms such as the Harris Tweed company and can be bought for around £200 on ebay.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverne...

When I grew up, a toilet bag was still called 'Necessaire' in (Austrian) German.

Trev thanks so much for this. A long time ago in this group, we always had info like what you posted. I, for one, sorely miss them. So happy to have a visualization of these items

Trev, thanks for posting the info and visuals, especially the visual of the lovely "necessaire". Fascinating!

I remember my mother’s ‘vanity case,’ sabagrey, in the 1950s, part of a set of luggage given to my parents as a wedding present. Nothing like as ornate but much more practical with compartments etc. She never went on her travels without it.

I’m glad to know that I’m not the only one who is interested in the objects and customs mentioned in the novels we read. Further investigation into the ‘necessaire’ has led me to the fact that even Napoleon had one and that it was mainly the men who owned them in pre Victorian times. Here is a short article explaining more.

https://www.antique-ethos.co.uk/dress...

I’m enjoying DD very much so far, despite having limited reading time available due to two IRL book club meetings coming up in the next couple of weeks. Thank you all for your thoughts and insights—you are making me into a better reader and I love hearing the different perspectives that help me see things in the text that I never would have if I were just reading alone!
Gwendolyn seems to me to be a textbook narcissist: she lacks empathy for others, has a sense of entitlement, overreacts to perceived slights, considers herself “special”, and has an high need for being admired by others. It is interesting that the concept of narcissism as we use it today was only developed in the early 20th century (initially by Otto Rank I believe), but writing prior to that Eliot captures the personality type with such skill. I can’t wait to see how she develops Gwendolyn’s character moving forward. Will we see some of that potential goodness that is referenced?

I agree with all of you that Gwendolen is spoiled and selfish. She has been catered to all her life and, like many physically beautiful people, she has not yet learned that beauty alone is not enough to merit the adoration of other people. I suspect that George Eliot will see to it that she has her comeuppance. As for Rex, I don't see him as spoiled at all, just as a young man in the throes of his first real love. He seems to have had a reasonably strict upbringing, isn't overindulged with expensive things (good horses) that his family can't afford, and seems to treat his family members with a normal amount of respect. The most intriguing thing to me about these chapters is Gwendolen's intense fear reactions to the painting and hints about other fears. In Chapter III, when the painting is first revealed and Gwendolen reacts strongly, Isabel comments that Gwendolen will never stay in that room by herself, indicating that she is fearful about some things. In Chapter VI, Gwendolen reacts strongly to the surprise revelation of the painting, and later indicates that she doesn't want the others to notice her "susceptibility to terror." Later in the chapter, Eliot writes that she has "fits of timidity or terror." In Chapter VII, Gwendolen says to her mother that she cannot bear to have anyone near her and that she cannot love people. To me, all this points to the possibility Gwendolen has experienced some trauma in the past which may well affect her future decisions.

Caroline wrote: "I think Chapter 1 is so important for how Eliot defines Gwendolen. She has the name, the looks and the habits of a spoiled child, entitled and privileged. Even the title is leading readers to make ..."

Very nicely put, Caroline. Certainly at the time a young woman's marriage choice was a gamble-needing to make such an important decision with limited information about your future husband, and the outcomes-titles can be lost, fortunes squandered, a "gentleman" can in fact be abusive and cruel-so unpredictable.

Ceane wrote: "I’m enjoying DD very much so far, despite having limited reading time available due to two IRL book club meetings coming up in the next couple of weeks. Thank you all for your thoughts and insights..."

That is a really interesting point about her terrors, and I must admit that escaped me in my initial reading. That is why I love reading with this group-so much attention to detail is allowed.

Trev-I also thank you for the illustrations and background details-they really add some deeper understanding and enjoyment of the reads.

I started late and have now caught up with the first section and more - listening. I already see (hear) that I will come back to the (e)print: Eliot's writing is just too delicious for ears alone.

My impression of Gwendolen is that she is one of these 'larger than life' persons in some respects. Yes, she overwhelms her own family with her character, so that they give in and rather fail in setting her boundaries. But Eliot gives me the impression that to a considerable degree, Gwendolen cannot help being what she is. Do I already get the vague idea that her feeling of being on top could turn out an illusion?

I’m only catching up with reading … actually re-reading, because my first pass was the audiobook (on the basis of which I concluded that the book merits a more careful reading - not surprisingly, with an Eliot novel ;-))

… and whether our prologue be in heaven or on earth, …

I read this as an allusion to Goethe’s Faust which begins with a Prologue in Heaven where God and Mephisto make a bet on Faust’s soul. Mephisto is certain he can seduce Faust to vice and worldly pleasures, while God wagers that Faust’s soul will remain untainted despite all of Mephisto’s efforts. And so Mephisto sets out to his task (… in the guise of a poodle).

Is Gwendolen a Faustian character? Searching, bored, open to seduction, and yet deeply dissatisfied and tortured? Deronda enters her life as a disturbing reminder of this starved and searching part of herself. What she takes as the attraction of a young man is really the unheeded call of her own hungry soul - the opposite of Mephisto’s allurement.

On another level, I found the moment in the narrative that Eliot chooses to zoom in on Gwendolen fascinating. She prepares the reader for this seemingly arbitrary choice of her ‘point zero’ in time:

Men can do nothing without the make-believe of a beginning. … No retrospect will take us to the true beginning;

Interestingly, she talks of Science as ‘he’ and of poetry as ‘she’, and concludes in this prologue that they are not so different after all because both are incapable of pinning down the ‘true beginning’.

Eliot chooses the first fleeting encounter between Deronda and Gwendolen as this starting point, and with the prologue prepares us already for the retrospective that follows, with the sequence of events that bring Gwendolen to the gaming table at Leubronn. I find this a remarkable stylistic device.

+++
A note on money:
I wondered about the money Gwendolen uses. Although the fictional town ‘Leubronn’ is supposedly in Germany, they use the French ‘louis’ (from Louis d’Or). The old French gold coin ‘Louis d’Or’ became a ’Napoleon’ under the French Empire. After 1815, the 20-franc gold coin was still called a "napoléon" (royalists again called this coin a "louis” - the English would do so, too, I guess, given their opinion of Napoleon). Many countries that had been part of the Empire continued to mint coins of the same value - if with different names - , so that the ‘louis’ became a sort of international currency, stabilised by a 1865 convention (Latin Monetary Union). Germany was not a member, but it stands to reason that in a place with international tourism like Leubronn this ‘Euro before the Euro’ would be the preferred currency. - The UK did not join either, but supposedly there was no problem with exchange, so that Gwendolen could travel home with the ‘louis’ she had sold her necklace for (I could find no source for the louis to pound exchange rate for the 1860s)

Fascinating reflections, literary and practical, as always, Sabagrey! I missed the whole Faust echo. And I thought of the locale as vaguely Swiss, I suppose because of the combination of German and French and because I think of Switzerland as the site of glamorous spas and resorts in the nineteenth century.

sabagrey wrote: "I’m only catching up with reading … actually re-reading, because my first pass was the audiobook (on the basis of which I concluded that the book merits a more careful reading - not surprisingly, w..."

I think you are right about the ‘Loius’ being a hard currency that the casino owners could trust.

The use of the ‘Louis’ might also be due to the way the game of roulette spread across Europe. Here is an extract from an article which explains it.

’ How Roulette Took Europe by Storm
It is safe to say that casino games, in general, would not be so popular today if it wasn’t for two smart Frenchmen by the name of Francois and Louis Blanc. They are the ones responsible for removing the double zero pocket and essentially inventing what we know today as European Roulette.
Francois and Louis did their great deed in 1842. At the time, however, gambling was again illegal in France, so the two had to find another place where they can promote their game. They moved to Hamburg, Germany, and introduced their new roulette game to the gambling community there. As you might expect, the feedback was more than positive – the popularity of the game spread like wildfire……………...
Several years later, Francois and Louis brought the game of roulette back to France, upon the request of Prince Charles of Monaco III. They established what would be known as the world’s first modern casino – and the centrepiece was the famous single zero roulette game. Soon after, they set out to create the luxurious Monte Carlo Casino Resort.’

Here is the full article for those who are interested.

https://www.roulettesites.org/history/

Abigail wrote: "Fascinating reflections, literary and practical, as always, Sabagrey! I missed the whole Faust echo. And I thought of the locale as vaguely Swiss, I suppose because of the combination of German and..."

thank you .... I never thought of Switzerland. The sound of "Leubronn" is just pure German, not Swiss at all. Nor would it have been so straightforward to take a train to Brussels from any Swiss resort. - Baden-Baden comes to mind first as the inspiration for the place. Eliot writes that the Langens planned to go there, so she mentions the real place along with the fictional one.

I am certain Eliot had read 'Faust'. But I'm not certain whether a 'prologue in heaven' does not turn up somewhere else in (English?) literature. So my association may be purely personal. As a German native speaker, I just can't help making it. (Goethe is to German literature what Shakespeare is to English: you just *know* the quotations).

... as to the 'true beginning': It crossed my mind after writing my comment that this was written long before the discovery of the Big Bang, with which Science raised the claim to actually know the true beginning. I find Eliot's reflections on going backward and forward in Time fascinating and eminently modern. Of course, no-one credited a female writer with scientific insights ...

Using a male pseudonym certainly freed her to write in a very different style from most female British authors, and to touch on weightier subjects. That’s especially evident in Middlemarch, though less so (at least so far) in Daniel Deronda. Mrs. Radcliffe strove for erudition in the 1790s, but of course her genre made the display of cultural literacy seem a touch ridiculous.

I’d need to read a biography of George Eliot to learn more about her areas of knowledge.

I know that I’m getting a very late start on this one. I just completed reading this section. I agree that it was an excellent place to take a pause. I’ll echo that I find Eliot’s writing so beautiful. It really is a joy to read each sentence. Each one seems so deliberate and maybe even fussed over. Yet it all flows so nicely. I’m finding it to be excellent so far and I was expecting it to be. I know that Eliot had a somewhat complicated love life (don’t we all!) and that could do nothing but assist her in her writing.

Welcome Chad and glad you are able to join us. I have been finding the writing style enjoyable but quite dense-that is I have to pay close attention and go back a reread passages at times-so I appreciate the slow pace and being able to discuss as we go. Eliot absolutely packs a lot into her writing, which certainly rewards a closer read.

Like Frances, I sometimes find Eliot’s prose dense, but it’s not necessarily a bad thing since it forces me to slow down and really think about what is being said. I absolutely agree with Chad that her personal life shaped her writing in unexpected ways. Because she made choices that were not approved by society and lived her choices openly, she had the ability to understand and portray different situations with empathy.

Thank you, Frances and Nancy. I agree that the writing is very dense and I have also gone back and re read passages often. At times I find myself reading a line out loud to my wife thinking it might interest her.