Fantasy Buddy Reads discussion

The idea of an extensive Stephen King / Dark Tower buddy read has sprung up in the Dune thread, in the past 24 hours...

There's a fair amount of interest, from me & Nirkatze & Felina, among others...

But, with how busy the BR schedule already is, we don't think there will be time for this BR until 2025, at the earliest...

In the meantime, it seemed like a good idea to have a collection point, as we decide on everything that needs to be read, and determine page counts and pacing, so this big BR doesn't take 5 years doing 1 book per month...

A Dark Tower BR would include 1000 page tomes like The Stand, regular length books like The Gunslinger and short stories like 2 of those included in Everything's Eventual...

So, here it is, the Stephen King planning thread... once the plan is made, and it's June/July/August 2024, we can start thinking about making the BR requests for January 2025...

Here's a bunch of the links I used in the Dune thread, as possible lists:

Here's the list I read: https://www.slashfilm.com/905247/the-...

Also found this other list on Storygraph that's a fair bit longer and includes books that aren't technically connected, but fans think they are or there are conceptual connections... has a much different reading order, too: https://app.thestorygraph.com/reading...

Whoever comes up with an official BR plan has their work cut out for them...

EDIT: Redditors also linked this list: https://geekunchained.wordpress.com/2...

And this list/blog, that has since gone offline has extended lists with 32 & 59 stories: https://web.archive.org/web/201706190...

A bunch of those 59 are probably short stories in anthologies...

This is gonna be an epic BR, if we set it up... the next question becomes pacing, because reading 20-60 books would take awhile, just doing one a month... but some of these are probably tomes, so it would probably have to be a more complicated endeavor, taking page counts into account, if you wanted to speed it up some...

Let's start looking at the undertaking:

Step 1: Dark Tower:

01) The Gunslinger (1982) -- 385 pages
02) The Drawing of the Three (1987) -- 529 pages
03) The Waste Lands (1991) -- 721 pages
04) Wizard and Glass (1997) -- 1041 pages
04.5) The Wind Through the Keyhole (2012) -- 335 pages (some suggest reading later)
05) Wolves of the Calla (2003) -- 960 pages
06) Song of Susannah (2004) -- 544 pages
07) The Dark Tower (2004) -- 1072 pages

Step 2: Most Important Extra Novels

02.1) The Stand (1978/1990) -- 1348 pages
02.2) The Eyes of the Dragon (1987) -- 427 pages

03.1) Charlie the Choo-Choo (2016) -- 24 pages
03.2) It (1986) -- 1174 pages
03.3) The Talisman (1984) -- 948 pages
03.4) Black House (2001) -- 819 pages

04.1) ’Salem’s Lot (1975) -- 668 pages
04.2) Insomnia (1994) -- 916 pages
04.3) The Little Sisters of Eluria (1998) -- 312 pages
04.4) Everything's Eventual (2002) -- probably 60ish pages (anthology contains 14 shorts, 2 matter, including Eluria above, which is inflated by art edition) -- 605 pages total
04.5) Hearts in Atlantis (1999) -- 673 pages

(Less Important, More Themes)

04.6) Desperation (1996) -- 724 pages
04.7) The Regulators (1996) -- 512 pages

This is the Slashfilm reading order... other links show the same books, maybe a bit less, and different orders...

Examples: read Black House between 6 & 7... read Stand & Eyes of the Dragon before Gunslinger at the start, etc...

Step 3: Truth Inside the Lie linked Extended Essential Version:

The Dark Tower I: The Gunslinger (revised edition)
Salem's Lot
"The Dark Man"
The Stand
"The Mist"
The Talisman
The Eyes of the Dragon
It
"The Reploids"
The Dark Tower II: The Drawing of the Three
The Dark Tower III: The Waste Lands
Needful Things
Insomnia
Rose Madder
Desperation and The Regulators
The Dark Tower IV: Wizard and Glass
"Everything's Eventual"
"The Little Sisters of Eluria"
The Dark Tower: The Wind Through the Keyhole
Bag of Bones
Storm of the Century
Hearts In Atlantis
On Writing
Black House
From A Buick 8
The Dark Tower V: Wolves of the Calla
The Dark Tower VI: Song of Susannah
The Dark Tower VII: The Dark Tower
The Dark Tower: The Gunslinger
Cell
"Ur"
11/22/63

11/22/63 might not have direct connection to the Tower, but it certainly has direct connection to It.

Another short series I'd consider, down in the group with Cell & UR is the Gwendy trilogy.

Gwendy's Button Box
Gwendy's Magic Feather
Gwendy's Final Task

Note that this was a collaboration with Richard Chizmar, who actually wrote book 2 solo.

I’m starting to feel like I’d like to go more in depth.

And I can’t believe he says 11/22/63 isn’t connected. The mythos is the same! That book vibes so hard with DT I’m offended by the implication that it’s not connected. Plus it’s an amazing book so it’s on the list!!!

Step 4: Truth Inside the Lie linked Essentials and Then Some Version:

(Poems & Epigraphs)
"Childe Roland to the Dark Tower Came" by Robert Browning
"The Dark Man"
"The Hardcase Speaks"

(Main Sequence)
"Night Surf"
"Slade"
"The Blue Air Compressor"
Carrie
Salem's Lot
The Shining
The Stand (1978 abridged)
The Dead Zone
"The Mist"
Firestarter
The Dark Tower: The Gunslinger (1982 original)
"Mrs. Todd's Shortcut"
The Talisman
The Eyes of the Dragon
It
The Dark Tower II: The Drawing of the Three
"The Reploids"
The Dark Half
The Stand (1990 expanded)
Four Past Midnight
The Dark Tower III: The Waste Lands
Needful Things
Insomnia
Rose Madder
The Green Mile
Desperation and The Regulators
"Everything's Eventual"
The Dark Tower IV: Wizard and Glass
Bag of Bones
"The Little Sisters of Eluria"
Storm of the Century (TV miniseries)
Hearts In Atlantis
On Writing
The Plant: Book One - Zenith Rising -- Published online in serial format during the year 2000
Dreamcatcher
Black House
From A Buick 8
The Dark Tower I: The Gunslinger (revised edition)
The Dark Tower V: Wolves of the Calla
The Dark Tower VI: Song of Susannah
The Dark Tower VII: The Dark Tower
Kingdom Hospital (TV show)
The Colorado Kid
Cell
Lisey's Story
The Dark Tower by Marvel Comics
Duma Key
"N."
"Ur"
"Blockade Billy"
"Fair Extension"
11/22/63
The Wind Through the Keyhole
"Afterlife"
Doctor Sleep
Revival

Those are all the suggested works of various merit, without just suggesting to read everything King has published I think...

I don't have time/inclination to add extra details to step 3/4 right now, but it's at least all listed here in bare-bones, until someone else like Felina and/or Nirkatze can chime in and pare down...

Gonna go back and include extra info for Step 2...

Chris wrote: "11/22/63 might not have direct connection to the Tower, but it certainly has direct connection to It.

Another short series I'd consider, down in the group with Cell & UR is the Gwend..."

I think I saw Gwendy mentioned in the comments of reddit or maybe Storygraph, when looking into it... a number of collaborative and non-King works have merit to the series, it seems... the pre-existing poems that inspired characters, and then the Peter Straub stuff...

Felina wrote: "I’m starting to feel like I’d like to go more in depth.

And I can’t believe he says 11/22/63 isn’t connected. The mythos is the same! That book vibes so hard with DT I’m offended by the implicati..."

Consensus seems to be that fans disagree with King on that, or he's messing with them...

In the Step 4 version, alot of books are included as possible Breaker archetypes, sometimes 2 versions of the story are included to show the changes made, On Writing is included to get context on the car accident in 1999 that led to books 5-7 releasing so fast, etc...

I feel like we should try to pair this down to something manageable that can be accomplished in one year (2025). I’m also concerned as to how many of these are audiobook available. I need to do some sleuthing and I’m very interested to see what Nirkatze and Chris say.

I am in. Just say when. I have wanted to read this series forever, but never got to it... Kind of like with Dune. I am reading mostly new to me stuff so far this year:)

Theoretical BR Plan, Steps 1 + 2:

01/01/25 -- 01) The Gunslinger (1982) -- 385 pages
01/15/25 -- 02) The Drawing of the Three (1987) -- 529 pages
02/15/25 -- 02.1) The Stand (1978/1990) -- 1348 pages
04/01/25 -- 02.2) The Eyes of the Dragon (1987) -- 427 pages
04/15/25 -- 03) The Waste Lands (1991) -- 721 pages
05/01/25 -- 03.1) Charlie the Choo-Choo (2016) -- 24 pages
05/15/25 -- 03.2) It (1986) -- 1174 pages
06/15/25 -- 03.3) The Talisman (1984) -- 948 pages
07/15/25 -- 03.4) Black House (2001) -- 819 pages
08/15/25 -- 04) Wizard and Glass (1997) -- 1041 pages
09/15/25 -- 04.1) ’Salem’s Lot (1975) -- 668 pages
10/15/25 -- 04.2) Insomnia (1994) -- 916 pages
11/15/25 -- 04.3) The Little Sisters of Eluria (1998) -- 312 pages (realistically 120ish)
11/22/25 -- 04.4) Everything's Eventual (2002) -- 605 pages (anthology including previous entry and this, 120-180pgs total matter)
12/01/25 -- 04.5) Hearts in Atlantis (1999) -- 673 pages
01/01/26 -- 04.6) Desperation (1996) -- 724 pages
01/15/26 -- 04.7) The Regulators (1996) -- 512 pages
02/01/26 -- 04.8) The Wind Through the Keyhole (2012) -- 335 pages
02/15/26 -- 05) Wolves of the Calla (2003) -- 960 pages
03/15/26 -- 06) Song of Susannah (2004) -- 544 pages
04/01/26 -- 07) The Dark Tower (2004) -- 1072 pages

I have no idea... there are very few short books or short stories in this list, that allow for faster BR pacing, really... and some of the biggest tomes feel like they need more than 1 month, like The Stand (especially as I watch War of Light and Shadow and Wheel of Time BRs get constantly rescheduled)...

I played it a bit fast and loose, at some points, putting BRs closer together because they are suggested as companion reads or continuous reads, like Desperation + Regulators (which released on the same day in 1996) and the end of the Dark Tower series, which released alot faster)...

Thoughts?

Felina wrote: "I feel like we should try to pair this down to something manageable that can be accomplished in one year (2025). I’m also concerned as to how many of these are audiobook available. I need to do som..."

I agree... Step 3 to 4 seem more like a long-term plan, for after Step 1-2 are done... some people might just want to do Step 1, I guess, too... it's like people making Malazan reading plans... Book of the Fallen, Malazan Empire, all the prequel/sequels trilogies...

The Step 1+2 idea is still 16 months in my theoretical comment above... because it's about 14k pages, just looking at those 8 Gunslinger books + 10 side books + 2 anthologies

I think Stephen King has robust audiobook access, until you dig super deep into the short stories and poetry... but a fair amount of short diction should be included in anthologies, at this point...

Choko wrote: "I am in. Just say when. I have wanted to read this series forever, but never got to it... Kind of like with Dune. I am reading mostly new to me stuff so far this year:)"

This is pretty much a next year plan, at this point, with how full 2024 is... just created this thread to manage and hype it ahead of time, since it's alot to think about...

I feel like I want to pace these on pages per week/audiobook hours per week. Like say it’s 500 pages per week, what does that equate to in audiobook hours? Straight 1 speed audiobook hours. Then we could list them in order and date them accordingly.

Felina wrote: "I feel like I want to pace these on pages per week/audiobook hours per week. Like say it’s 500 pages per week, what does that equate to in audiobook hours? Straight 1 speed audiobook hours. Then we..."

The average audiobook is 1 page every 2 minutes, or 30 pages per hour... that's what we use for books lacking page counts... but it varies alot by narrator and material, in practice...

Gunslinger is 7.33hrs, or 0.875 pages per minute (alot better than 0.5)...
The Stand is 47.8hrs, or 0.47 pages per minute (not too bad compared to expectations, and above average for big tomes, I think)

I’m interested in jumping into this one. I haven’t read a lot of Stephen King but it’s been on my tbr list. If you all tell me the order and dates I’ll be there.

I'd be interested for sure. I read some of the series but stopped, forget where though.

All of the books listed and most shorts are on audiobook. My library has most of King's books. Usually, I'd say you can get Dark Tower via library loan. Older books are easier access due to popularity vs some of the newer releases.

There's only a few on lists (for books) that I haven't read.

So... 1st Time Readers for Dark Tower series
I am going to argue AGAINST reading combined series + links.

1) There's a big chunk of time difference & some writing style changes between 1st and last book.

2) While the links between the series & other books are there, story voice is part same and reader response different. Roller coaster on types of horror: supernatural, psychotic, emotional, physical, abuse, drugs, etc.

Emotionally/Mentally: It can be exhausting to read these close together.

3) Dark Tower is a great series by itself. Why do you want to color the series with the adjuncts during 1st read? The links are not going to have the same theme/narrative voice/etc as DT.

Re-Readers
I've read most of the books listed and a small portion of the shorts. The reading order with linked books sounds great for me, but I don't agree it's good for first time readers.

Plus, I don't like everything King has written. I'm sure I am not the only one. When you run into a book you don't like or enjoy, it will throw off the rest of the reading plan.

As for co-written, I enjoyed the ones with Straub and Joe Hill. Not sure about anyone else. I don't remember the other son's name, but I thought that book was so-so.

I knew Soo would advise against extras... you were the inspiration for commenting on Malazan/etc...

:D

The more extras you add, the more daunting the undertaking...

I’m not sure I completely agree. I do think some of these are so distantly connected it doesn’t make sense. But some of the ones that are directly connected are excellent and would be good for first time readers. I suppose people can decide for themselves how in-depth they’d like to go. Like, I feel like The Stand is required DT reading.

There's so many fantasy readers that seem to want to read Stephen King someday, and haven't gotten around to it... maybe it's just fans of connected universes / megaseries...

I finished Malazan on my own. My reading mood for Malazan was inconsistent and BRs actually made me dislike reading the books. Too much gushing from fans. It kept hyping the books and I was the 💩 thrower cause the hype made me get into critique mode. 🥸

So yay for multiple BRs for Malazan in several groups at the same time for getting me to push series up on my Man I Dunno TBR. That was the push to get back into a series I kept dropping for years. Like since #1 came out and was unknown. 😆

I'm glad I finished Malazan. I ended up liking it. Then getting disappointed by author at the end. 👻 Lost interest in reading his books.

Back to DT:

Part of me is like, well, 1st time readers could just read the series with the BR and come back to others, etc.

But we know how these BRs work. If the plan is to read the series + sides, we're gonna end up talking about everything. Which leads to spoilers.

It takes pretty good mental strength to not read spoiler tags and still get hyped up to read + chat about what you read while skipping others.

My interests align so closely with fantasy/sci-fi/horror, King made sense very early on.

Upon further thought. I think you’re right. I do think newbies should stick to the original series and then jump into the extras if they are into it. I think this sounds fun because I’ve read most of these but never with an eye for catching the Easter eggs. That’s what I’d be doing this time. So maybe we start with the original series and then do the extras at the end and people can continue along if they’re liking the mythos.

Sounds like a good compromise... because doing the extras order means people that only want to read Dark Tower are waiting months between books for the first half, then suddently reading monthly for the 2nd half...

Dark Tower fits the grim dark genre and it's a mix of fantasy + SF.

Not everyone that enjoys fantasy and SF enjoy bigger representation of horror. The linked stories have a good bit of horror. I don't think that people who aren't into horror or grim dark will enjoy the mashup list of series + links.

Like, I enjoy horror. But even I wouldn't choose to have the darker bend of King's stories be the largest chunk of reading in a year.

I feel like most of us in FBR are mood readers. That's the part that comes to mind when I look at the combined list. I've read most of the books.

I'm definitely not usually a horror reader...

😆

Fast updates! Gotta love it.

Not sure how much I wanna re-read, but I'm in for chats and reading as I feel like it. So mostly the not read and some favs? 🥸

Timelord Iain wrote: "I'm definitely not usually a horror reader..."

Yah so have your cozy/goofy books on standby. I know Choko & you will want buffer books between.

To me if I were a first time reader I would rather read everything because the likelihood I would go back and read everything any time soon is like 0%. And then if I read the Dark Tower series and then say The Stand or one of the others that would have made more sense in the big read I'd be slightly disappointed I missed the context or whatever it added to the series read. I mean it is daunting and a lot but if you are in then you are in, am I right? lol

I think every non-DT novel is it's own novel on it's own merits... it's more that they enrich DT, and give backstory to characters that appear in DT that you might otherwise lack...

Alot of these novels were written over decades, and decades before DT was fully fleshed out and completed...

Unlike Sanderson's Cosmere which has a bit of a big master plan to it all... and gets very incestuous in recent years with books like Last Metal and Rhythm of War and Tress of the Emerald Sea / Sunlit Man...

Of the listed side books, Salem's Lot seems to be the most intertwined with DT plot... and reading them together changes how Salem's Lot hits?

That's just what I gathered from skimming alot of different sources...

And honestly, nobody seems to agree with one another about anything...

I started with King in the early 80s, with The Stand upon recommendation from some school friends. Loved it and was hooked......This was close to the time that Christine was the newest book, and I went back and read all the earlier books....Wasn't a huge undertaking, like it would be now...

So my DT experience came as they were released. The Gunslinger was an underground hard to find rarity for awhile, then was released in mass market sometime in the late 80s, so that's when I picked it up. I read the new ones upon release, along with King's other work..

So the Dark Tower experience with all the easter eggs and connections to other books came about slowly with the release of his books. That was a pretty awesome way to experience it all, but obviously not something we could replicate, short of booking them for the next 30-40 years....

Here's an idea:

Do a BR of the main series, 1-7, one per month.

At the conclusion of that, start a reread, mixing in the connected books....Nice thing about DT is that there is a lot to be picked up on a reread....even more so if reading the other stuff.

And hey, if you're into it enough to read all of ^^^^ that list, you'll want to reread the main 7 to refresh the connections.

You know, looking at Iain's comments......

If we're doing this in 2025....

How about setting up some standalone pre-Dark Tower BR's in 2024?

Salem's Lot
The Stand
Eyes of the Dragon

(Maybe It, and The Talisman/Black House too, but those aren't as essential pre-DT)

Ummm, maybe "Little Sisters of Eluria", "Everything's Eventual", and Hearts in Atlantis as 2024 reads too...

Damn, this is becoming a major rabbit hole.

**Okay, edited this as I made a big mistake. Little Sisters should in no circumstances be read before the series. It takes place somewhere before the Gunslinger, but without the context of the series read a new reader might be thrown off completely.

Desperation/The Regulators are both cool books, but for DT relation they wouldn't be a huge boon to a new reader. Someone that has read the main series would love these more after....mixing them in might confuse/bloat new readers.

Insomnia would be kinda weird as fuck to read before at least the first 4 books, and wouldn't make a lot of sense. If read after (even after all 7), it would turn a weird "eh" book into an awesome book.

This sounds interesting, but it's a huge amount of books if you're not only doing the DT - series. I think I've read 2 or 3 of them.
I'm member of the Stephen King Fans - group here on GR. Maybe I can throw a light there and see what they recommend to start with? It's just an idea ;)

Saar The Book owl wrote: "This sounds interesting, but it's a huge amount of books if you're not only doing the DT - series. I think I've read 2 or 3 of them.
I'm member of the Stephen King Fans - group here on GR. Maybe I ..."

Not a bad idea. There are probably some threads regarding it already too. lol...

I'm a mod there, fyi

Aha, maybe you can get a look into it there to get some ideas, because you're a mod there?

Saar The Book owl wrote: "Aha, maybe you can get a look into it there to get some ideas, because you're a mod there?"

There is this thread: ((MAJOR spoilers throughout for many King books.)) https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

There really doesn't seem to be a solid consensus for reading order/ideas

Chris wrote: "Saar The Book owl wrote: "Aha, maybe you can get a look into it there to get some ideas, because you're a mod there?"

There is this thread: ((MAJOR spoilers throughout for many King books.)) https..."

I think message 19 is the most logical. I don't know if it's already mentioned, but what about 2 threads?
One for those who wants to read DT and the additional books and another one for those who are first time readers or maybe rereaders who wants to stay with just DT?
I've read a lot of King's books, but mostly not in order.

First few books for DT are short.

I like Chris' idea to read Dark Tower 1st and then fo the combined reading with links.

So first timers to the series can read DT and we can all chat along for it. Then do the linked reading.

For first timers, maybe start DT later this year? Setting up for linked read in 2025.

The Eyes of the Dragon was the first book by King that I read. I can't remember if I read Stand or Talisman after. Talisman is a fav and enjoyed Stand.

Here's a possible suggested approach:

2024 standalone BRs:

04.1) ’Salem’s Lot (1975) -- 668 pages
02.1) The Stand (1978/1990) -- 1348 pages
02.2) The Eyes of the Dragon (1987) -- 427 pages
04.4) Everything's Eventual (2002) (skip "Little Sisters of Eluria" for now)
04.5) Hearts in Atlantis (1999) -- 673 pages

2025 Main DT buddy read:
01/01/25 -- 01) The Gunslinger (1982) -- 385 pages
01/15/25 -- 02) The Drawing of the Three (1987) -- 529 pages
02/15/25 -- 03) The Waste Lands (1991) -- 721 pages
03/15/25 -- 04) Wizard and Glass (1997) -- 1041 pages
04/15/25 -- 04.8) The Wind Through the Keyhole (2012) -- 335 pages
05/01/25 -- 05) Wolves of the Calla (2003) -- 960 pages
06/01/25 -- 06) Song of Susannah (2004) -- 544 pages
07/01/25 -- 07) The Dark Tower (2004) -- 1072 pages

Post Dark Tower BRs for those that want more:

04.3) The Little Sisters of Eluria (1998)
-*Here might be a good place to try the graphic novels, especially "The Gunslinger Born" arc.

04.2) Insomnia (1994) -- 916 pages

03.2) It (1986) -- 1174 pages

03.3) The Talisman (1984) -- 948 pages
03.4) Black House (2001) -- 819 pages

01/01/26 -- 04.6) Desperation (1996) -- 724 pages
01/15/26 -- 04.7) The Regulators (1996) -- 512 pages

Fun extras and bonus stuff:

03.1) Charlie the Choo-Choo (2016) -- 24 pages
The Dark Man - poem
UR - short story
Gwendy trilogy
On Writing - non fiction
From a Buick 8
Rose Madder


Re-Read of main series can start any time during this period...

@Saar, yes post #19 makes sense and is similar to stuff Iain found....

And of course those familiar with the series will absolutely understand that #19 would of course be that post.

Chris wrote: "Here's a possible suggested approach:

2024 standalone BRs:

04.1) ’Salem’s Lot (1975) -- 668 pages
02.1) The Stand (1978/1990) -- 1348 pages
02.2) The Eyes of the Dragon (1987) -- 427 pages
04...."

I like this idea... could start reading Standalones late summer... and do DT starting January 2025...

Comment 19 in that other thread looked pretty similar to Step 2, with a few books from Step 3 thrown in, from what I skimmed...

I really wouldn't want to mix in It, Talisman/Black House, Desperation/Regulators, or Insomnia in too casually, as those are chunksters in and of themselves....But a dedicated BR for those that have read DT can be fun for those books.