The Obscure Reading Group discussion

For the next week we’ll wrap up with Sections IV-VI of Master Humphrey’s Clock (listed on the Reading Schedule )

You may want to reference the section you’re commenting on, but whole book spoilers are okay here.

We can also discuss
-how you compare this book to other Dickens you’ve read,
-if you’ve read or are interested in reading the two novels that came out of this one: The Old Curiosity Shop and Barnaby Rudge,
-and, of course, anything else that comes up!

I am almost done with this section, but have to admit it's been a little confusing.

According to Wikipedia, this was the original order of this section, with the novel included that has been taken out of our text:

-"The Clock"
-The Old Curiosity Shop II-IV
-"Mr. Weller’s Watch"
-The Old Curiosity Shop V-VIII
-"Master Humphrey, from His Clock-Side in the Chimney Corner III"
-The Old Curiosity Shop IX-LXXIII
-"Master Humphrey, from His Clock-Side in the Chimney Corner IV"
-Barnaby Rudge I-LXXXII
-"Master Humphrey, from His Clock-Side in the Chimney Corner V"
-"The Deaf Gentleman from His Own Apartment"

My book shows breaks within "Master Humphrey from His Clock-Side in the Chimney Corner" for where the novel sections fit in, but it's still confusing.

I've read The Old Curiosity Shop, but not Barnaby Rudge, and maybe that's why I'm finding it hard to follow?

I'm curious what your thoughts are about the connections.

I just read the summary of The Old Curiosity Shop and realize I'd forgotten who "The Single Gentleman" was. I think I see where I was confused now.

It's a little bit of a spoiler for Curiosity Shop, and a spoiler if you haven't yet read this part of our book yet, so I'll put it in spoiler tags: (view spoiler)[The Single Gentleman appears at the end of The Old Curiosity Shop to help solve some mysteries. He is not named, but turns out to be the younger brother of one of the main characters, the Grandfather. So our Master Humphrey is this gentleman, and solving the Curiosity Shop mystery ends on a very sad note. (hide spoiler)]

So now I'm going back to re-read. :-)

I’m one who hasn’t read the Old Curiosity Shop so I’m glad that those sections aren’t included in our reading.

I just finished the reading and feel happy and sad both. I enjoyed so much and also recognized what seemed like Dickens’ thoughts and feelings about England and its people in so many of Master Humphrey’s thoughts, especially when they refer to caring for the downtrodden. It was nice that the deaf gentleman was given the final chapter.

On a somewhat unrelated topic, I think I may remember now one problem I had when reading Pickwick in the past: Weller’s accent as written. I constantly find myself tripping over his words as I read them.

I also enjoyed the letters from Dickens that appear after the Deaf Gentleman in my story collection. I didn’t realize (though it may very well have been stated in the group), that this collection of Master Humphrey marked the end of Dickens’s weekly serials and resulted in a virtual pledge that he would move to a monthly publication schedule and never again publish weekly. He also announced his upcoming trip to America. What a nice bonus in my book.

Kathleen, since I haven’t read either novel, I’m not experiencing the same issues as you but I did notice, and think it strange, to see Barnaby Rudge spelled out in one of the illustrations. I imagine that I just chalked up any lack of flow to the type of work I was reading, a collection of stories.

Sue wrote: "I’m one who hasn’t read the Old Curiosity Shop so I’m glad that those sections aren’t included in our reading.

I just finished the reading and feel happy and sad both. I enjoyed so much and also r..."

Fascinating, Sue--thanks for sharing the info from Dickens' letter. I didn't know Master Humphrey was put out weekly. I can't imagine--Dickens is a wonder, isn't he!

Another thing that amazes me is how young Dickens was when he wrote this lovely description of aging. He was only 29.

I hadn’t even thought about his age, Kathleen. He certainly could create realistic older characters, including their innermost thoughts about their future, losses, friendships, etc.

I’m glad I mentioned Dickens’ letters. Had a feeling it is probably only included in collections.

It seems to be generally accepted that Dickens started Master Humphrey's Clock as a weekly with a plan to write most of the contents himself---tales of old London, letters from imaginary correspondents, and satirical pieces--- like The Spectator, The Rambler, and others. After the first issue, though, readership fell. His readers wanted novels. So the stories told by his fictional characters become their own "true" life stories. The "Personal Adventures of Master Humphrey" are subtitled The Old Curiosity Shop. Jack Redburn is apparently the author of Barnaby Rudge.

From certain allusions which Jack has dropped, to his having been deserted and cast off in early life, I am inclined to believe that some passages of his youth may possibly be shadowed out in the history of Mr. Chester and his son, but seeing that he avoids the subject, I have not pursued it.

Fiction within fiction. The narrator is a fictional character telling the story, not Dickens himself. I am very familiar with this in Trollope novels--one can never assume that the narrator is Trollope himself. Even when it appears that there are authorial intrusions. But here, Dickens makes this explicit. Just as it is incomplete for us to read Master Humphrey's Clock without the novels, so it would be incomplete to read the novels completely separate from the fictional world that provides the storytellers.

Ginny wrote: "Just as it is incomplete for us to read Master Humphrey's Clock without the novels, so it would be incomplete to read the novels completely separate from the fictional world that provides the storytellers."

Fascinating, Ginny. Thanks for this info. It does feel incomplete to read Master Humphrey's Clock without the novels, but when I read The Old Curiosity Shop, not knowing any of this background, it seemed complete in itself, and I imagine Barnaby Rudge would be a similar experience. It would be fun to read them both now with this insight into their "creators."

That was so fascinating, Ginny! Someday I'll have to leave my rigid worldview behind and sink deeply into these novels. That all this endless invention could come from one man's mind is beyond me!

Kathleen wrote: " I read The Old Curiosity Shop, not knowing any of this background, it seemed complete in itself,..."

Were you ever aware that it was Master Humphrey telling the story?

We’ll that’s settled. Now I’ll have to read both THE OLD CURIOSITY SHOP and BARNABY RUDGE! 🙂

Ginny wrote: "Kathleen wrote: " I read The Old Curiosity Shop, not knowing any of this background, it seemed complete in itself,..."

Were you ever aware that it was Master Humphrey telling the story?"

No, I wasn't. There is a narrator in the first chapters, an old man that I know now was supposed to be Master Humphrey, but I only knew him as an unnamed narrator that at a certain point, let the characters take over. I'm anxious to read it again now!

That's a tremendous tidbit, Ginny. Now I've GOT to read Curiosity Shop! I'll hop to it.

It would be fun to set up a thread in this topic where readers can comment if and when they read the two novels. I'm tempted to give Curiosity Shop a try myself.

It’s always been on my list. Now even more so.

I'm a Dickens fangirl, so I loved it. It was great to be reunited with the Pickwick crew again--it's been years since I read that book. I especially enjoyed Chapter 5 (I know that technically belongs in the first thread) where Mr. Weller becomes worried that he has exceeded himself in complimenting the housekeeper. He informs his son that he is "always afeerd of inadwertent captiwation" and laments that he doesn't know how to make himself ugly or unpleasant to avoid this dreadful snare. On page 93, after catching himself "in the very act of smiling on the housekeeper, put a sudden constraint upon his countenance and looked sternly at the candle, with a determination not to captivate, himself, or encourage thoughts of captivating in others." His sincere concern over how irresistible he is to ladies is hilarious.

Very interesting Ginny!

Ginny wrote: "It would be fun to set up a thread in this topic where readers can comment if and when they read the two novels. I'm tempted to give Curiosity Shop a try myself."

Better late than never. Here's the thread, Ginny and all!

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Please discuss anything related there: thoughts on the two novels if you've read them, plans to read them, what you think after you read them.

Our threads stay active, so this will be there if you don't get to them for a while.

Cindy wrote: "His sincere concern over how irresistible he is to ladies is hilarious."

Oh, I agree, Cindy. Mr. Weller was too funny!

Wow, you guys - I feel like a Dickens Do-Little, and a Dickens Dunce, when I see your well-read enthusiasm! Being autistic I'm SUCH a slow reader - well, at least I have a knack of Talking about reading, and that's why I'm happy Humphrey is So popular!

Ginny wrote: "It seems to be generally accepted that Dickens started Master Humphrey's Clock as a weekly ..."

Great illustration Ginny! Thanks for sharing it.

The illustrations are all in the Gutenberg edition. Open source.

I could not finish this novel. Is it supposed to be a collection of short stories, or is it supposed to be an experiment, or what's it supposed to be?

It was the most disjointed series of tales I've ever read by Dickens. I, for one, didn't connect to it. I found the narrative about the child killer for the inheritance particularly disturbing. After reading that tale, I couldn't just make the leap into a completely different story like the previous one didn't happen. My thought was--is this person supposed to be Mr. Humphrey? If so, I guess those people who were suspicious of him when he first came to town were spot on.

Since I didn't finish it, I'm not going to review it on Goodreads. I was hugely disappointed with this novel. It's like Dickens kept changing his mind about which direction he wanted to go with it.

I'm sure most of you loved it.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Cindy. You're definitely not alone--a couple of people shared similar impressions in the first thread. And clearly this is an obscure Dickens because many don't like it! I wouldn't be at all surprised if Dickens did see it as an experiment. :-)

Kathleen, thanks for your comments. When I was trying to research more about this collection of stories, I read somewhere that Dickens had received so much criticism for Master Humphrey's Clock, he just walked away from it. Wish I would have saved that link.

Perhaps club members each wrote their own manuscripts and read them to other club members? And this was the framework? In other words, none of the stories were intended to be each one's personal story but works of fiction. That's the only way I can make any sense of it.

I saw the clock as a metaphor that blurred the lines between real time and fictional time.

Cindy wrote: "Kathleen, thanks for your comments. When I was trying to research more about this collection of stories, I read somewhere that Dickens had received so much criticism for Master Humphrey's Clock, he..."

I did consider the stories to be made up by the members, with the exception of Mr. Weller's Watch, which thrown in the way it is rather confuses things.

But I never thought of your metaphor idea. I love that, Cindy!

Kathleen wrote: "Ginny wrote: "Just as it is incomplete for us to read Master Humphrey's Clock without the novels, so it would be incomplete to read the novels completely separate from the fictional world that prov..."

I read, "The Old Curiosity Shop," many years ago. I remember being disappointed because I felt the writing was overly melodramatic. Perhaps, I should re-read it. I don't remember if I've ever read Barnaby Rudge. Based on reading the synopsis of it, I think I would like it better than, The Old Curiosity Shop.

Cindy: While the whole point of an "OBSCURE" reading club is to find little known gems, it is fraught with danger based on personal tastes. Well, maybe this is true with all books, not just obscure ones.

;-)

When I think of Dickens, I chastise myself in the opposite direction. I still haven't read some of his well-known and much-heralded books (here's looking at you, Bleak House).

This is one case where I might be tempted that way vs. this one, where we saw Dickens working for money in the press, changing his mind, tapping into old successes (Mr. Pickwick), etc.

Oh, well. Win some, lose some. I'm glad some readers found much to love with this book, but understand where others (like you) were disappointed, too.

There's always June (our next pick), right?

Yes, there is, Ken. I think one of the reasons I was so disappointed with this book is that I have such "great expectations" regarding Dickens' writing, and in this one, he did not deliver. At least not for this reader.