The Mookse and the Gripes discussion

Kairos by Jenny Erpenbeck translated by Michael Hofmann (Granta), German/Germany

I rather liked this when I read it.

Which is a bit worrying given these judges liked it.

There is probably a major flaw that I missed.

This made me laugh! Yes, I liked it too and of the 3 I've read so far, it's the one I hope makes it to the shortlist. But I should add that I'm not the most objective reader for this, since I also experienced the fall of Communism at an impressionable age and am fascinated by the topic.

I'm probably going to give this a pass - I've read two other of her books which were fine, but didn't wow me. I've also read a ton of East German lit already (in addition to a lot of other Eastern European lit) so sad love story under communism doesn't seem like ground I need to cover again - it doesn't sound like it adds any new angle.

Heck, I'm feeling the same way about the entry of depressing Polish short stories. I read a similarly themed Polish volume (Swallowing Mercury) and I think that gave me my lifetime quotient.

Unless other readers give me a heads up that these are somehow outstanding in the genre. But not holding my breath.

I found this bewildering and can't work out how to make the personal (toxic asymmetrical affair) and political (fall of Berlin Wall) cohere. It's written in a confident, stylised way that implies intent - I just can't see how to take meaning from it.

This is the only one of the longlisted books that I had read before the longlist was released. I liked it, although the toxicity of the relationship started to grate on me and like Roman, I did not see the connection between the relationship and the fall of the Berlin Wall in a way that I assume I as the reader was supposed to. Still I thought it was well done and very well translated.

I'm on page 250/350 - found the first half really well done, but now I am getting so fed up with this pathetic guy. I am glad you say the toxic relationship started to grate on you, because he just goes on and on and on... It's still well done, but I am hoping for a bit more politics in the last 100 pages.

I am pretty sure Hans symbolises the declining GDR holding on to control, but the people (i.e. Katharina) know the good intentions and promises of the start will never be realised, want their freedom but can't escape - not sure it's much more complicated than that or if it has to be...

I loved Go, Went, Gone so I was looking forward to this even before the longlisting without knowing anything about it. Hmm, let's see, skeevy relationship between an 19 year old woman and a 50+ man? I would prefer not to.

Finally finished, but it took some willpower.

My conclusion is that this novel's main theme is the psychological warfare that manipulative boyfriends are able to inflict on their girlfriends - an important theme, but not something I enjoyed reading about. Still, it is an impressive novel and certainly one of the strongest on the list.

I don't really know either what the reason for the big reveal in the Epilogue is... Happy to hear what others make of it.

[spoiler alert] My guess is that Hans is desperately looking for 'truth' after he lost his faith and quit working as an informer for the West. When he encounters the innocent Katharina, he believes he has finally found truth in the form of pure love. And so when she cheats on him, he loses it completely.

It did take will power to finish! Thanks Ruben for providing your thinking on the Epilogue, as I had no idea what to make of it. I'm with Roman Clodia and Cindy on not seeing the connection between the relationship and the fall of the Berlin Wall that I think was meant to be seen. My conclusion was that one had to live it to get it. As the relationship became ever so increasingly toxic, I found it hard to read much at any one time.

Is this better than End of Days - I thought that was fairly mixed.

Kairos > A God in Ruins > The End of Days > Life After Life

Paul wrote: "Kairos > A God in Ruins > The End of Days > Life After Life"

So, you think Kairos is her best that you've read?

Funnily, I've read two, but have no overlap (just Go,Going,Gone and Visitation)

Paul wrote: "Kairos > A God in Ruins > The End of Days > Life After Life"

Are there similarities between Erpenbeck and Atkinson? I've admittedly never read Atkinson so really don't know much about her work beyond knowing there's a few books about a family and a few mystery books.

They write a book with a similar concept. I liked Atkinson a lot more I have to say in this case. I cannot work out if End of Days was not that well written or awkwardly translated.

The End of Days was the first Erpenbeck I read, and I thought it was deeper than Life After a Life, but I liked Visitation more.

If The End of Days and Life After Life were English novels I suspect both might not have been published as which came second would have looked a bit awkward. As it was one presumes Atkinson hadn’t read the German original.

And yes I think Kairos is the best of her novels in translation which I have read (vs The End of Days, Visitation, Go Went Gone).

Although The End of Days was strong - and was garlanded with prizes and shortlisting both for the English book and for the quality of the translation. It won this prize when it was called the Independent Foreign Fiction Prize, the Oxford-Weidenfeld Translation Prize, the Schlegel-Tieck Prize and the Ungar Prize, and was shortlisted for the Helen and Kurt Wolff Translator's Prize, the IMPAC Prize and the US-based National Translation Award.

I have been more attentive to what we as readers bring to each reading experience and part of what affects that is what was affecting us just before we begin a book. In this case, I had just finished Life with Picasso by Françoise Gilot, a real life story of the relationship of the young Gilot and the 40 year older Picasso, and today began Kairos. Life with Picasso was a marvelous read. Gilot's narration is filled with love for Picasso and despite his flaws and the toxicity of the situation, it is that love that poignantly touched me. Starting Kairos , I already feel my experience with these characters will be warmer than some of yours.

If reading Life with Picasso affected my impression of Kairos, I think I came away with more of a negative impression of Kairos because comparatively there was little chemistry between Hans and Kartharina and IMO little romantic love. I would suggest their relationship depended on Kartharina's lack of experience and lack of freedom which was something that did coincide with the political theme. I felt their whole relationship was situational rather than based on individual like. This caused me a conflict with the title since the Kairos/opportunity comes with Kartharina's freedom to make choices rather than from their coming together. I am sure others saw it differently.

At least two reviews I read mentioned Erpembeck as a potential Nobel Prize winner this year. Such talk means nothing but I do see her and the book more as Nobel material then IB and I think it is because of her East Berlin roots seems to me more relevant on the Nobel scale.

Regardless of my minor criticisms, the strengths of the book would make this a fine IB winner.

I just finished this one, and I admire it, particularly the first half. The mid-section (from Katharina’s transgression until the Wall fell) was painful to read. Hans’s relentless emotional abuse was maddening, and I really wanted Katharina to stand up for herself and stop all contact with Hans. I put the book down many, many times during the second half and actually started and finished two other books during that time. So, I will say that I admired the book but didn’t love the reading experience. It’s a worthy winner of the prize but far from my favorite winner.

I recommend an excellent interview with Jenny Erpenbeck on episode 59 of the Across the Pond podcast (hosted by Lori Feathers and Sam Jordison) where she talks at length about Kairos.

Bookguide wrote: "I recommend an excellent interview with Jenny Erpenbeck on episode 59 of the Across the Pond podcast (hosted by Lori Feathers and Sam Jordison) where she talks at length about Kairos."

Thanks, I just finished Kairos a few weeks ago so will check the podcast out