Nature Literature discussion

Please add your comments about H is for Hawk here.

Yay!! I just ordered my copy!! Looks to be a wonderful read!

I look forward to reading this.

Read the first chapter. Off to a good start.

Thought this was really good when I read it late last year. She deftly blends emotions, memories of her father and the training of this most superior of raptors is a unique way. The writing is intense too.

Hello- I am curious if anyone comes to this book with any experience or exposure to falconry, and I am also curious if anyone comes to reading as a fan of T.H. White's books?

Sher

No experience with falconry per so, but I have in past years worked with birds of prey in educational programs. Not a task to be undertaken lightly. They are powerful creatures and meant to be wild.

Hi Ray:
I asked , because we had a falconer visit us once when we were living in Alaska, and he had a gyrfalcon and other raptors. He was a registered falconer, and he told us that the raptors are wild and have little to no relationship with their keepers. He said if you want a relationship with a bird work with a crow, a raven, or a parrot. It sounded like a difficult and time consuming "hobby." But, I did not get a clear idea of why he was into falconry if it wasn't the relationship with the bird. The author seems to have a connection with her bird, so that is why I asked if anyone else here might have some insight. How far are you into the book now?

I read it last fall, and what captivated me the most was her powers of description. At times I felt like everything else in my life faded away, and I was with her in those woods with the bird. I struggled with aspects of the overall content of the book, but I found her powers of telling the story when she was with the bird utterly captivating. Yet, I was not drawn to the author as a person or personality. The impression I had of her wasn't very favorable, but I have since read accounts from people who know her and find her charming and real. So, ..... My impressions are just that, I guess.

Just reading the comments on one of the review sites where you can purchase the book, I've learned something I never knew about falconers. I thought falconers bought these birds, trained them and kept them forever but it appears a lot of them actually release these birds into the wild when they're mature enough to hunt for themselves. It's actually a form of conservationism because a lot of raptors in modern civilization don't make it to adulthood without help now. It's too dangerous / difficult for them to hunt as fledglings so falconers provide that "protection" while they're learning the ropes.

Interesting information there Becky! I didn't realise that about falconers either. Thank you.

P.S. I'm enjoying the book so far, which I'm also reading with one of my two boys.

That is interesting Becky. Thanks for sharing. A twist and far cry from White's goals and from what I thought about falconry. Things change.

Numerous agencies and nonprofit groups work to restore bird of prey populations. The Peregrine Falcon was gone from the eastern United States before restoration. Release of captive raised Bald Eagles helped to bring them back as well.

HI Sher:
Sorry it has taken me so long to get back to your question.
Generally, I worked with non releasable birds, injured by collisions with vehicles, power lines, etc. Some were seized from people who had them illegally, i.e. without permits. A few of these were imprinted on humans, meaning they had some much contact with humans at a young age that they responded to them as birds would to another bird. I noticed that some birds seemed to develop a bond with particular handlers.

sorry, that should read, so much contact with humans

Hello Ray-- thanks for replying back. That is interesting about some of the birds seeming to develop a bond with particular handlers. I wonder what makes the difference. I have performance flying pigeons, and these birds are taken by raptors. But, certain pigeons have "personalities" that stand out from the rest of the birds, and some birds are more tame and easy to handle; whereas, other lines are very flighty and more difficult to approach. I have a mild to moderate concern with raptors here, so the pigeons that are not as tamable (genetically) I do not try to tame. I have kept pigeons for 11 years, and I have found the birds that are less tame survive flying in the outdoors longer.

True - imprinted birds of prey can never be released even if they are fully flighted and learn to hunt. They are also the most dangerous when working with them. Far more so than birds that do not fully accept you. Wildlife rehabilitators sometimes have to condition birds to react adversely to humans, because contact between a bird and a human could result in harm to either one. Several years ago, I worked at a facility with a bald eagle and a golden eagle. Before working with these birds I learned that the force in their talons exceeds 1,200 pounds per square inch. Not a job to be taken likely.

"Before working with these birds I learned that the force in their talons [eagles] exceeds 1,200 pounds per square inch."
Wow! That is incredible.

Why are imprinted birds the most dangerous? Is it because they don't fear the handler as much as a truly wild bird? Is it related to food - mate? What is your understanding of this? I'm curious.

Sher: All of the factors you name could apply to an imprinted bird. Each one is different. It depends partly on how young they were taken from the nest and the treatment they received when first taken. Generally, licensed, professional bird handlers try not to imprint the bird. Some of them do see humans as potential mates. Their behavior can be unpredictable.

If you look at the web site of the International Crane Foundation, you may see a photo of a person in an all white costume that covers the whole body and disguises all human characteristics. This person is preparing to enter an enclosure with captive born cranes being prepared for release into the wild. This group has brought the wild whooping cranes back from a population of less than 25 to current numbers of about 600.

This is a children's book about a bond between a boy and a Red-tailed Hawk. I recommend it highly.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...

Hi Ray-- Thanks for the link for the book and the International Crane Foundation information. I did not know about the Crane Foundation; it was interesting to explore their site. We have sandhilll cranes within a few hours of where I live in Oregon, and I was also able to see cranes in very wild environs in Alaska. I have never seen a whooping crane. Great work these folks are doing.

I will see if I can get that book on hawks through my library.

Staging area for greater Sandhill Cranes near my home (Chattanooga, TN). As many as 25,000 congregate at the Hiwassee State Wildlife Refuge. We see a few Whooping Cranes every year thanks to Operation Migration.

This web page is a great resource for any general questions about birds - particularly and specific king of bird. http://www.allaboutbirds.org/guide/No...

Sher wrote: "Hi Ray-- Thanks for the link for the book and the International Crane Foundation information. I did not know about the Crane Foundation; it was interesting to explore their site. We have sandhilll ..."
Ray- I know we are sort off topic-- but I just wanted to note how fortunate you are to have the chance to see so many of these cranes . That's incredible. At Malheur where we go, we are lucky to see 20 - 30, and this is quite an event, so thousands sounds astonishing. Thanks for the link on birds....too. Best, Sher

I didn't realize, before starting this book, that some falconers worked with Goshawks. They are an Accipiter, related to Sharp Shined and Coopers Hawks and designed for flight through dense forest to capture and eat small birds. Very unlike the Peregrine and Gyrfalcon which gave the sport its name. I had heard of Falconers working with the Red-tailed and Harris Hawk - members of the the genus Buteo. These three groups of hawks are quite different from each other, the Falcons, Accipiters, and Buteos. Only on page 62 at this point.

Chapter seven...and now she has the Hawk home The focused attention on becoming invisible sounds intriguing.

I found this video which shows a Goshawk hunting pheasant in Scotland. You can really get a sense of the power of this bird. Take a look:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6y4rH...

Oh and this one...using Goshawks to hunt pheasant in Ireland...spectacular!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HA64m...

I know Macdonald did describe the size of these hawks; but I never realized how big they really are; especially since I know Accipiters are relatively smaller than Buteos. After viewing the above videos; I can really appreciate the size, speed and lethality of these birds.

They are huge! Cannot get the first video to play though

Great idea Antonia. I forget we have the Web and all its resources to make our readings even more interesting. The first link opened fine for me.

What struck me most about the video was how the falconers never looked into the eyes of any of their birds. The first man was holding his bird so close to his face. He never looked at the bird though. I guess looking into the bird's eyes would be considered threatening. Like being invisible to the bird as Macdonald put it and Ray reminded us.

Also, I recall Macdonald mentioning when Mabel would jump off her arm- I think that might have been called bateing? (it's been 8 months since I read the book), and we get to see several of the goshawks do this in the video.

The goshawk replaces the gun and also replaces the dog's retrieve. The dog just points the game, but doesn't retrieve.

In some ways, more violent than a gun!

Finished reading this book. I did enjoy it, on the whole, just not a book I usually read what with it being about someone dealing with grief. But still interesting, especially for those of us interested in birds, and particularly birds of prey. Interesting thread this has become guys!

I don't know if it's just me, but MacDonald's writing style brings Hillary Mantel's to mind.

Sometimes I wish this book had pictures; I read the description of the goshawk's well made hood, "like a Prada shoe", and went promptly to the web to see one. Here's what I found; yes,they are beautiful and exquisitely made by Doug Pineo, the same person who made Mabel's hood.

See them here:
https://www.pineofalconry.com/hood-ga...

Now I am curious about falconry and how you train to be a falconer. Here is a video about a Falconry "resort" in the UAE; apparently falconry is an important part of middle eastern culture. It makes sense to train a bird to hunt if you have a lack of guns, ammo and/or horses, dogs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6QUl...

In the U.S., a person who wants to become a falconer must be an apprentice to a licensed falconer. They graduate to general falconer and eventually master falconer.

The video on Pheasant hunting in Ireland was incredible. Notice how the bird spreads its wings and tail to cover its kill. This is called Manteling. http://birding.about.com/od/birdinggl...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsRZi...

Above is a short interview (Samuel Johnson Prize) of Macdonald speaking of her work. I enjoyed hearing her speak and talk about her experiences. On the right hand of the page you will see other more indepth interviews- including one with the New York Times.

I'm only halfway through the book, but it's a different perspective for me as someone who has worked as a wildlife rehabber. While I have never worked with a goshawk I've worked with RS Hawks, RT hawks, cooper's hawks, caracara, GH owls as well as others and can appreciate the strength and intelligence of these creatures. For me, as someone who doesn't believe in keeping wild animals as pets, I'm not sure I agree with all the practices of falconry, but I can appreciate how working with other creatures can change life perspective and help you through a rough time.

Beth wrote: "I'm only halfway through the book, but it's a different perspective for me as someone who has worked as a wildlife rehabber. While I have never worked with a goshawk I've worked with RS Hawks, RT ..."

Ray wrote: "The video on Pheasant hunting in Ireland was incredible. Notice how the bird spreads its wings and tail to cover its kill. This is called Manteling. http://birding.about.com/od/birdinggl......"

Ray: Yes, I loved watching those videos; also the one in Scotland, but I only saw one Gos that didn't absolutely mutilate the pheasant's breast. I'm not sure which video it was, but the Gos just stepped aside quietly and did not eat the pheasant. A friend of mine said -- those birds can be trained not to eat the kill. Pretty brutal to watch indeed when the Gos was just ripping out the breast of the pheasant.

Beth: Yes, I agree. I think birds of prey should be wild and flying free; but I do admire the cultural aspects of flying and hunting with raptors, especially if there is a scarcity of hunting weapons, or horses to chase prey and you need food to eat. I am only in the middle of the book, haven't quite determined why, if you are grieving, you'd want to witness such a dark process like the end of life and the brutality of a Gos in killing its prey. I think if I were grieving, I'd try some hobby which would allow me to go to a lighter cheerier place.

Okay, I watched Sher's posting of the interview w Helen MacDonald..she explains exactly why training a Gos distracted her from grief. Interesting interview. She looks rather like a Goshawk herself. Dark w darting eyes...

One of my favorite books from childhood was The Once and Future King.

I am about 1/3 of the way through the book now. I lost my father much the same way that the author did, to a sudden an unexpected heart attack. The T.H. White portions of the book have not pushed their way into the forefront of my reading as much as the "subplot" of her father's sudden death and how she turned to the goshawk in the aftermath of her loss.

I still think that it would be wonderful to be able to change into an animal or bird.

Moonlight--yes, I can relate to MacDonald's loss too--I lost my mother suddenly when I was 20. Reading this story has reminded me of my own wishes then to escape to another world...I had experienced a sensation that the world was a very unfair place-and wanted no part of it.

I am also about 1/3 of the way through the book. I think the relationship between her own story with the hawk and the T.H. White story is that they both sought transformation through a rite of passage. She uses those words to describe White, and her own sleepless vigil seems like a right of passage. She is quite surprised when the hawk makes a change as her friend is visiting. She expected this to happen in solitude with just the two of them.

I noticed that Canadian author Guy Gavriel Kay is promoting H is for Hawk as one of his "Authors4Indies" books at an event in Toronto today, so I "tweeted" him that we had just finished reading it.

His response:
Terrific book. There's a VG i'view with her in LARB by Cdn novelist @cfischerguy this week. Try Vaillaint's The Tiger, too. The Tiger: A True Story of Vengeance and Survival

Here's the link to the interview with Guy, in case you're interested: http://lareviewofbooks.org/interview/...

Poems from the falconer. https://www.essex.ac.uk/lifts/memory_...

Ray:
Have you finished H is for Hawk yet? If so , how did you find it overall? Sher

TH White and Helen--both sought happiness through the hawk and the answers as to why they were both miserable. Finally at "magical Places" she is starting to find the happy child she once was...TH White never succeeds--he was encumbered by societal judgement and the mores of the day...(think of Alan Turing here and how they dealt with his homosexuality). Also, Helen should have shunned the drugs--the Gos was drug enough and a great way to work through grief. Oh, I am about 20 pages from the end...I am enjoying the book, but at times it is kind of like listening to a friend complain about troubles..it takes an empathetic ear to listen--Helen's saving grace is that her prose is beautiful...otherwise, I'd just want to say:"enough already"...

Antonia wrote: "TH White and Helen--both sought happiness through the hawk and the answers as to why they were both miserable. Finally at "magical Places" she is starting to find the happy child she once was...TH ..."

Antonia: Well expressed. My favorite parts of the book were the descriptions of the time spent with Mabel the hawk. During these moments I was transported, but I found the author difficult to like. I had trouble mustering the level of empathy I should have had for her loss. Still, I feel badly even writing that, because of course, I don't know Macdonald on a personal level. We garner impressions about an author through their work, but I often think our impressions may stand outside of who these authors are. (When I watched an interview of Macdonald, my impression of her was quite different and it was positive) It is so easy to react and say I did not feel her pain. But, you are correct, I believe she used White's story as a way to tell her story. I can see the academic very much at work. I mean I can very much see the writer is an academic. I think H is for Hawk is also very much a creative work. Yes, her prose and the ability to transport the reader is astonishing!

I have finished it and written a review, published on Goodreads. I also found a series of poems by McDonald - Poems from the falconer. https://www.essex.ac.uk/lifts/memory_...