Nothing But Reading Challenges discussion

'The remarkable story of an astounding transformation' George Monbiot

Forced to accept that intensive farming on the heavy clay of their land at Knepp in West Sussex was economically unsustainable, Isabella Tree and her husband Charlie Burrell made a spectacular leap of faith: they decided to step back and let nature take over. Thanks to the introduction of free-roaming cattle, ponies, pigs and deer – proxies of the large animals that once roamed Britain – the 3,500 acre project has seen extraordinary increases in wildlife numbers and diversity in little over a decade.

Once-common species, including turtle doves, nightingales, peregrine falcons, lesser spotted woodpeckers and purple emperor butterflies, are now breeding at Knepp, and populations of other species are rocketing. The Burrells’ degraded agricultural land has become a functioning ecosystem again, heaving with life – all by itself.

This recovery has taken place against a backdrop of catastrophic loss elsewhere. According to the 2016 ‘State of Nature’ report, the UK is ranked 29th in the world for biodiversity loss: 56% of species in the UK are in decline and 15% are threatened with extinction. We are living in a desert, compared with our gloriously wild past.

In Wilding, Isabella Tree tells the story of the ‘Knepp experiment’ and what it reveals of the ways in which we might regain that wilder, richer country. It shows how rewilding works across Europe; that it has multiple benefits for the land; that it can generate economic activity and employment; how it can benefit both nature and us – and that all of this can happen astonishingly quickly. Part gripping memoir, part fascinating account of the ecology of our countryside, Wilding is, above all, an inspiring story of hope.

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nominator: Lexi

Chapter Breakdown

Date		Chapters 	Pages		MPDQs
6 & 7 Apr	1 - 5		101		Lexi
8 & 9 Apr	6 - 17		309		Cat

Guidance for DQ setters
Aim for a reasonable number of questions: 4 - 5 is typical. Please don't post too many - any more than 7 gets unwieldy!
Use consecutive numbering of the DQs for your days. So, for example, if Day One is posted as questions 1-4, Day Two should start at number 5 etc.
Don't worry too much about your questions: you aren't being tested on how clever your questions are!
Hints and tips:
- Is there a quote that jumped out at you? Use that in a question.
- What about the characters - do they generate strong feelings? No feelings? - either way, we can explore that!
- What about that plot twist?!
- Explore the writing style: is there an unusual structure being used? what's the tone of voice like? or the point of view?

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Participation Verified

Cat
Lexi

I'm back in the US and have a copy. I can do the first day.

:(

my library doesn't have a copy of this but it looks interesting

I've a copy so can join in :)

I can't get it either, but it does look like an interesting read

As there's just two volunteers, I've divided in two, and given each half 2 days. Feel free to further segment your section if you prefer.

I will post a few questions tonight, but I have not got all 100 pages read yet. I agreed to help read some international applications, and I thought they were 2-3 pages each and not 50.

DQs Day 1: Part 1
Introduction and Chapter 1

1. Why did you want to read this book? Are you familiar with some of the books that it quotes, such as Wendell Berry?

2. This book focuses on re-wilding as compared to ecological farming or balancing crops and conservation, as is mentioned in the first chapter from other farmers. What are your thoughts on the idea and how it fits in the context in England? Did you know England had such biodiversity loss and low protected land?

3. Giant oaks. What is your experience with them and do you want to visit any now that you have read this chapter?

Also, it looks like I have to get all the way to Chapter 6 for the cattle and ponies, which is why I wanted to read this book.

Jumping in even though I am not reading the book to say that my sister has forcefully told me to start reading Wendell Berry books.

So I will.

I have met him. I worked at a vet in Henry Co, where his farm is, and his sheep was sick. I recommend his poetry and essays on farming first, but his fiction is good too. My sister's dog Wendell is named after him.

Probably my favorite poem: https://www.scottishpoetrylibrary.org...

Wow. That is beautiful. I will get one of his books soon.

DQs Day 1
Introduction and Chapter 1-5

1. Why did you want to read this book? Are you familiar with some of the books that it quotes, such as Wendell Berryor Aldo Leopold?

2. This book focuses on re-wilding as compared to ecological farming or balancing crops and conservation, as is mentioned in the first chapter from other farmers. What are your thoughts on the idea and how it fits in the context in England? Did you know England had such biodiversity loss and low protected land?

3. Giant oaks. What is your experience with them and do you want to visit any now that you have read this chapter?

4. The introduction of domestic (feral) species to replace wild animals is interesting to me. What do you think of this as a concept, and how it is handled differently in their plan versus the one in the Netherlands? Had you heard about the closed canopy theory before?

Also, some of the science in this book is questionable

I'm behind, sorry, so it's going to be tomorrow before I get questions up.

There's very little acknowledgement of her privilege in being able to do this, so the various harrangues of landowners (farmers) who don't follow through with their aspirations is hard to choke down (in reading terms I mean!)

No worries. The level of unacknowledged privilege is kind of amazing and unexpected. I didn’t realize her socioeconomic background before I started. I usually read about trying to do environmental friendly farming from much lower resources. I should have just nominated Wendell Berry.

Set 2: 6 - 17

5. Iconic wildlife make their way to Knepp spontaneously once the land is left. Were you expecting the volume and variety that made an appearance when you started the book, with the unappealing claggy clay was described?

6. Beavers! In general the section on the river rewilding was probably my favourite segment, and it's frustrating that there is such a wide acknowledgement that the current management of rivers and adjacent land (in England & Wales at least) is not really compatible with effective flood reduction. Anyway, rather than politics: favourite river creature(s)?

7. The minibeasts are revealed as the unsung heroes of a healthy environment, and yet are generally unloved. Any suggestions for "sexing up" the image of the humble earthworm, or making the pesky wasp more palatable?

8. Comparisons with Norway and Scotland, and the size of deer under different management methods. To noone's surprise, Tree is sniffy about both the Scottish and Norwegian approaches, on the basis that both lack the "authentic" way of life and thus dynamism within the landscape. What do you think about her point of view? Any recommendations for other nature writing?

Bonus: horsemeat: would you eat it regularly?

sorry, combination of unplanned socials (and subsequent impact) plus just not getting on with the woman's attitude slowed me right down.
Happily my diversion into the Singing Hills Cycle (especially with its approach of being generous and conciliatory to neighbours) was balm to my soul!

DQs Day 1
Introduction and Chapter 1-5

1. Why did you want to read this book? Are you familiar with some of the books that it quotes, such as Wendell Berry or Aldo Leopold?

I've not read either of those. I did enjoy The Running Hare: The Secret Life of Farmland, which focussed on one man's attempt to farm a small area in a more sustainable fashion.

2. This book focuses on re-wilding as compared to ecological farming or balancing crops and conservation, as is mentioned in the first chapter from other farmers. What are your thoughts on the idea and how it fits in the context in England? Did you know England had such biodiversity loss and low protected land?

I spent most of the book being exceedingly irate at Tree's attitude to other landholders for not leaping on her & Charlie's bandwagon, with no empathy for their financial circumstances. The last chapter did have some thoughts on how to balance rewilding with farming more sustainably, so I was slightly reconciled, but suspect that she's not a believer in "catch more flies with honey" approach!
I was aware of the biodiversity loss, yes. :( though I hadn't thought about the impact of the reluctance of bureaucrats to throw relatively low funding at speculative projects would effect attempts to reverse it.

3. Giant oaks. What is your experience with them and do you want to visit any now that you have read this chapter?

I've more familiarity with horse chestnuts (in my youth) and the London plane trees. But they are majestic beasts. There's an old turkey oak in a local park which is in the "branches drooping to support itself" phase, and which is splendid


4. The introduction of domestic (feral) species to replace wild animals is interesting to me. What do you think of this as a concept, and how it is handled differently in their plan versus the one in the Netherlands? Had you heard about the closed canopy theory before?

I think that filling publicly accessible spaces with wild creatures would never work! It was interesting reading about the different proxies used. One thing that made me laugh was when she was mourning that their cattle are no longer thoroughbred, because they can't track which bull impregnated which cow!

I'd heard of the theory that a squirrel could cross England without touching the ground, yes, but I'd honestly assumed that to be hyperbole. The New Forest is one of the oldest forests in England, and it has a LOT of scrubland, due to the horses.

Set 2: 6 - 17

5. Iconic wildlife make their way to Knepp spontaneously once the land is left. Were you expecting the volume and variety that made an appearance when you started the book, with the unappealing claggy clay was described?

I was impressed at how quickly and widely species made their own way to the land once they no longer had to play dodge the tractor. The earthworms' super speedy wriggling across the heavy soil was particularly impressive. I did think the points being made about assumptions of wildlife habitats based on post WW2 landscape being very wrong were interesting - and suggests that the more marginal changes briefly touched on (hedgerows! may them bigger! maybe don't flail the heck out of them!) can be effective.

6. Beavers! In general the section on the river rewilding was probably my favourite segment, and it's frustrating that there is such a wide acknowledgement that the current management of rivers and adjacent land (in England & Wales at least) is not really compatible with effective flood reduction. Anyway, rather than politics: favourite river creature(s)?

Hard to beat a kingfisher, I reckon. They might not be superstars in regenerating the riparian environment, but they are for sure a good marketing tool!

7. The minibeasts are revealed as the unsung heroes of a healthy environment, and yet are generally unloved. Any suggestions for "sexing up" the image of the humble earthworm, or making the pesky wasp more palatable?

I was being silly with this question, but we do need to accept that if we want an environmentally richer country we need to put up with annoyances (eg hedgerows that are prickly and scratchy and might damage cars; decaying bodies of animals etc)

8. Comparisons with Norway and Scotland, and the size of deer under different management methods. To noone's surprise, Tree is sniffy about both the Scottish and Norwegian approaches, on the basis that both lack the "authentic" way of life and thus dynamism within the landscape. What do you think about her point of view? Any recommendations for other nature writing?

As mentioned before, I found her privilege, and more particularly, lack of acknowledgement of that privilege for the vast majority of the book to be very grating, and impacted on my enjoyment of the book. I think I thought there would be more suggestions for others and also more detail about the difficulties, beyond "boo hoo, DEFRA wouldn't stump up the cash for aaaaaages".
Other nature writing - The Running Hare, I mentioned before, plus I've read one of the books about trees (The Secret Life of Trees: How They live and Why They Matter? Wildwood: A Journey through Trees?)

Bonus: horsemeat: would you eat it regularly?
Pescatarian, so no. I suspect my sisters (both live in rural farming environments) would, given they both like venison, and my oldest sister is regularly given gifts of hunted hare or pheasants.

DQs Day 1
Introduction and Chapter 1-5

1. Why did you want to read this book? Are you familiar with some of the books that it quotes, such as Wendell Berry or Aldo Leopold?

I have read both and enjoy both of them a lot. I linked my favorite poem above for Jenny and A Sand County Almanac and Sketches Here and There is a really peaceful audio book as Leopold describes his farm across the seasons. I will have to look into Running Hare. I have read more of the practical side of things books on farming as some day when I don’t travel so much, I want a farm again.


2. This book focuses on re-wilding as compared to ecological farming or balancing crops and conservation, as is mentioned in the first chapter from other farmers. What are your thoughts on the idea and how it fits in the context in England? Did you know England had such biodiversity loss and low protected land?

I also got annoyed at how one sided and unfairly the author treated the issue and her neighbors and no comment on finances or privilege, as compared to ways to improve farming or share land with nature and biodiversity, especially livestock. This is more of my interest long term.

3. Giant oaks. What is your experience with them and do you want to visit any now that you have read this chapter?

We don’t have oaks as much, but I really want to see the giant redwoods out west.

4. The introduction of domestic (feral) species to replace wild animals is interesting to me. What do you think of this as a concept, and how it is handled differently in their plan versus the one in the Netherlands? Had you heard about the closed canopy theory before?

I mean the US fills public spaces (national parks) with wild animals and then spends a lot of time trying to keep US and foreign tourists from trying to pet the fluffy cows (bison). No dogs though and that is truly the one that causes most of these animals to get very aggressive. There are a lot of rules on registering animals. We would have had to remove the horns on our goats to register them and never wanted to do that. It seems odd to me because while we have feral animals out west of cattle, pigs and horses, they are seen as not natural compared to the native grazers.

Set 2: 6 - 17

5. Iconic wildlife make their way to Knepp spontaneously once the land is left. Were you expecting the volume and variety that made an appearance when you started the book, with the unappealing claggy clay was described?

Poor hedgerows and hedgehogs. That made me very sad to read that. Also, how much of the loss had been even in the last 30 years was sad. I liked the part of the 80 years olds remembering before the war to what the country used to look like. None of these animals were that surprising as all can function off smaller space and are fairly mobile. Glad it worked though as most depend on somewhere nearby or soil seedstock.

6. Beavers! In general the section on the river rewilding was probably my favourite segment, and it's frustrating that there is such a wide acknowledgement that the current management of rivers and adjacent land (in England & Wales at least) is not really compatible with effective flood reduction. Anyway, rather than politics: favourite river creature(s)?

I have to agree. I adore Kingfishers, and I tend to see them a lot. I have one that lives by the pond (dammed creek) by my apartment, and it is a very noisy little bird. There are huge ones in Ethiopia and tiny blue and orange ones that I see a lot. A lot of my work involves waiting so I have taken up bird watching to fill the time and aquatic birds are my favorite. I also love giant storks and herons. I love to visit the great blue heron who lives in the pond and had both hooded merganser and a very lost green winged teal duck there this winter. I want to see a shoebill stork someday, as they do exist in areas with Guinea worm.


7. The minibeasts are revealed as the unsung heroes of a healthy environment, and yet are generally unloved. Any suggestions for "sexing up" the image of the humble earthworm, or making the pesky wasp more palatable?

I am confused by the decaying body issue. Are there no vultures? Who is picking up all the dead deer? We don’t let livestock rot in fields but deer, and roadkill occur all the time. Earthworms are cute. Did you ever have an earthworm farm as a kid?

8. Comparisons with Norway and Scotland, and the size of deer under different management methods. To noone's surprise, Tree is sniffy about both the Scottish and Norwegian approaches, on the basis that both lack the "authentic" way of life and thus dynamism within the landscape. What do you think about her point of view? Any recommendations for other nature writing?

Genetics likely play a role too even within the same species. In the US, white tail deer are much larger in Michigan versus the Florida swamp version. The desire for funding versus attempts to be self-sustaining and then the entire ignoring or privilege was annoying. My recommendations are above Wendell Berry, and Aldo Leopold.
I also like: Your Farm in the City: An Urban Dweller's Guide to Growing Food and Raising Animals, Farm City: The Education of an Urban Farmer and want to read
The Dirty Life: On Farming, Food, and Love.


Bonus: horsemeat: would you eat it regularly?
I lived a year in Mongolia. I have eaten a lot of horse; mostly boiled or as jerky. Just don’t eat it undercooked like most meats as that’s a risk for Trichinella.

we don't have vultures. the main carrion bird I know of is the red kite, which was super successfully reintroduced to the Thames Valley by the Rothschilds. They are magnificent, but I suspect pale compared to a vulture! (there had to be a lot of education as they moved west into Oxfordshire, as people were leaving out steak to encourage close visitations, which isn't good for them lacking all the gristle and such.)

Vultures are magnificent. They ones is the US are smaller but still really interesting but the ones I have seen in Africa, who apparently also are in Spain, are giant and really fascinating.

So my library copy of this has just come in -is it worth it, or should I return unread?


We have a fair number of buzzards round us which are another smaller bird of prey.

Remember seeing a lot of turkey vultures in Peru. They seemed to be everywhere. Though the most impressive carrion eaters I saw there were the Andean Condors - a 3m plus wing span makes for an impressive bird to watch.

It's interesting, for sure, and easy to read.

Considering Cat's and my questions, you could probably join the discussion without having read the book.

Andean condors sound lovely. I have seen California Condors out at the Grand Canyon in Arizona.

https://www.theguardian.com/environme...

Go the earthworm!

I just found this BOM and it's so different i have to participate. I just ordered the book and i should get it saturday. Wait for me! Lol

Got the book! I'll post my comments soon

Do I need a completion post for my 2 answers and a whole lot of randomness?

Lexi wrote: "Do I need a completion post for my 2 answers and a whole lot of randomness?"

All good, I've added you and Cat to the s/sheet :)