Works of Thomas Hardy discussion

5th Thread: Chapter 39 - 47



Fanny Robbin (Juno Temple) 2015 Movie

Installment 9

Chapter 39

Chapter 40

Chapter 41

Chapter 42

Installment 10

Chapter 43

Chapter 44

Chapter 45

Chapter 46

Chapter 47

Installment 9:



Chapter 39-42

Chapter 39 – Coming Home: a cry

On a Saturday evening in October Bathsheba and Troy are returning to Weatherbury from Casterbridge. Troy is walking beside her,wearing a fashionable farmer’s suit. He bought his soldier’s discharge with Bathsheba’s money and is insisting on becoming a modern farmer. Troy is complaining about losing money (gambling) due to the rain. Bathsheba sadly reminds him that he’s lost a hundred pounds this month in horseracing. Her money. He says he was thinking of taking her to the races next week, though she begs him not to go.

Troy says Bathsheba has lost all her former pluck and spirit. She looks away indignantly but resolutely. A woman appears on the hill, poor and sorrowful looking. She asks Troy when the Casterbridge Unionhouse closes. At the sounds of the voice, he starts, and slowly says he doesn’t know. At hearing him speak, the woman looks both happy and anguished. She cries and falls.

Bathsheba exclaims and prepares to get down, but Troy orders her to walk the horse up the hill, while he deals with the woman. After protesting, Bathsheba obeys. Of course, the fallen woman is Fanny. Troy helps her up and asks, in a gentle but hurried voice, how she ever came here. She says she has no money, and he gives her what he has.

Troy tells Fanny to sleep at the Casterbridge Unionhouse until he can meet her Monday morning on Casterbridge Bridge. He’ll bring all the money he can and get her lodging somewhere. Troy returns to Bathsheba, who asks if he knew the woman. He says boldly that he does, but only by sight. Bathsheba doesn’t believe him.

Welcome to the next installment, and our new thread. I know we have all been wondering what happened to Fanny Robbin, and now here she is again. Even before they encounter Fanny on the turnpike road, it was obvious there is no more marital bliss for the young couple.

Troy again introduces the idea of modernity into the more static landscape of Weatherbury, even though it also seems that he lacks the will and wherewithal to actually come through on his grand schemes. Meanwhile, Bathsheba struggles with Troy’s profligate spending and gambling. She’s used to being responsible with money, but she now has to face the reality that, in a marriage at the time, the husband controls the purse. And she's beginning to realize she did not marry someone who is her equal when it comes to managing a farm and its finances.

While Bathsheba is concerned with the very real, present problems of management and of married life, Troy is as careless as a child, insisting on returning to the flirtations of their initial courtship. Suddenly, though, his carelessness is interrupted.

Troy and Fanny both immediately recognized one another’s voice. Troy’s attitude now completely shifts. While he had been scornful and sarcastic to his wife, he seems earnestly worried about Fanny.

Bathsheba has lost much of her innocence and naiveté along with her pride. She’s unable to guess what exactly the relationship between Troy and the woman is but recognizes that he is adept at hiding things from her.

For me, one of the worst moments in the chapter was when Troy whipped the horse “as a recreation”. I don’t like people (even fictional people) who hurt animals.

A little more . . .

gig-gentry - an ironic reference to “elite” farmworkers who can afford a gig. Gabriel, earlier, promised Bathsheba a “ten-pound gig for market” (Chapter 5)

Like you Bridget, I was struck by the detail of Troy's thoughtless cruelty to the horse, topping and tailing chapter 39. It starts (para 2) with his "aim[ing] light cuts at the horse’s ear with the end of the lash, as a recreation" and at the end there is a "smart cut of the whip round Poppet’s flank, which caused the animal to start forward at a wild pace."

This almost casual cruelty is revealing about Troy's character. 😞

I was also struck by the irony. Bathsheba was full of sympathy and wanted to get down. She would surely have helped Fanny even if she had been a stranger, and even more so as someone from her farm. Troy might not have put two and two together, and been aware that they would have known each other, but it matters little. His main aim seems to be to prevent Bathsheba being aware of his closeness to any other woman. He might speak tenderly - "gently" - to Fanny, but his attitude is all self.

Thomas Hardy contrasts Troy's attitude to these two women nicely. Also I think we are aware that their positions are completely contrasted. They are very similar in age and class, but Bathsheba has been "lucky" with her inheritance and winning the man they both wanted to marry. Fate, or destiny, has played a cruel trick on Fanny.

And a little more ...

Troy's gambling was not a surprising pastime given his personality. Horse racing was very popular in England during the 19th century, and there were several local courses. The Weymouth (Thomas Hardy's "Budmouth") races were held on a course at Lodmoor.

The "brow of Yalbury hill", where Troy and Bathsheba pass Fanny in their gig, is still there. In real life Yellowham Hill lies a little to the south of the A35. The A35 is the largest road and route through Dorset, which is the only county in England which has no motorways!

Bridget:

Thank you for the wonderful summary. I also took note of Troy’s cruel treatment of the horse and actually clenched my jaw when I read that.

Jean: You are exactly right, Troy’s capacity for cruelty reveals something of his true nature. I do remember Gabriel warning Bathsheba that he believed “him (Troy) to have no conscience at all”.

I’m beginning to think I didn’t read enough into the storm. Hardy very cleverly has all the other characters off stage except for Bathsheba and Gabriel. Besides having emotional storms brewing in their hearts, could the storm also represent this dark nature of Troy and the storm he brings to Bathsheba’s life and farm? Hmm, that storm won’t let go of me either!

I agree with everything you ladies have said here and only have a quick thought to add. Fanny and Bathsheba are also two women making their way through a man’s world at this point in history. I think this scene highlights how little control most women had over their lives. Fanny is completely at the mercy of Troy here, the man responsible for her leaving her place on the Everdene farm. And Troy is not a good steward of Bathsheba’s well-being. If Troy continues to gamble her money away her life will be very different from what she imagined. Not to mention Troy’s fickle heart and the damage Bathsheba will suffer from that. I suppose at the time of publication this might have been viewed as a cautionary tale to its female audience.

Like all of you, once we heard Troy was slicing into Poppet's ear for sport, I was sick with disgust. What an awful man. Irredeemable now, in my eyes. Bathsheba has lost a lot in this marriage--her innocence and pride, yes. Also her money, her self-respect, likely her farm and livelihood, and quite possibly all hope.

Oh Hardy, the things you put your characters through!

Loved Troy's "shudda/cudda/wudda" account of his day at the races. If the conditions are that bad, the prudent thing for the occasional bettor to do is eschew the bookies' stands. But Frank isn't into prudence, is he?

Keith: Lol! No, Troy is irresponsible among other things.

When we’re finished with our group read, I’m going to read this book again on my own. It’s interesting to me how Hardy is really giving us a lot more information about these characters than I originally picked up on. Without inner thoughts and even hidden actions we are getting hints as to who these people are and what motivates them. Troy himself declared early on that the best way to get women to like him is to lie to them. That combined with the observations of the farm workers we really do know quite a bit about him. And he is definitely a cad to put it mildly.

Unfortunately, I expected this chapter to happen and anticipated both the gambling and spending, as well as the eventual meeting of Fanny. Still, I was shocked by wonton cruelty to the horse, as well as to Bathsheba, and amazed at how well Hardy was able to imbue this chapter with so much in so few words. The whole chapter marches on your soul, each action a heaviness on the heart.

I picked up on the casual cruelty to the horse, just as several of you did; and it lowered Troy even further in my estimation than he was already. (Which was pretty low to begin with.) :-(

My father once advised a friend of mine - a married woman - when she told him she had observed her husband cruelly beating their dog. My dad said, “If he beats a helpless animal, it will not be long before he beats you also.” She was forewarned, and she had to leave the abusive relationship.

So I think there is some truth to this folk wisdom Hardy is introducing here. Bathsheba needs to be careful.

You had a wise father, Lee. I was also upset with the cruelty that Troy showed to the horse. In addition to worrying about him beating Bathsheba, Troy could also use animal cruelty as a manipulation tool. Some people will beat a spouse's or child's pet to manipulate them emotionally and exert control over someone. If someone stands up to them, the pet gets beaten. It's a way of gaining power over another person. So if Bathsheba complains about Troy betting, the horse gets whipped, and it might soon escalate.

Lori wrote: "I’m beginning to think I didn’t read enough into the storm..."

We shouldn't forget either Troy's announcement before the storm: "Friends, it is not only the harvest home that we are celebrating to-night; but this is also a Wedding Feast." The drunkenness, waste, and raging storm all reflect the state of the marriage.

Some time around now, Thomas Hardy wrote a chapter in which Troy deliberately infected the sheep with foot rot. This was so that the farm would fail, and he would get a lot of insurance money. It also led to a big fight between Gabriel and Troy; probably it was the last straw for Gabriel to see the sheep he cared for in such pain.

But Thomas Hardy discarded this story line, and the chapter was not included. I thought it was worth mentioning, because of the animal cruelty we are talking about, as well as Keith's observation that Troy's impulsive plans are not prudent, and Erich's comment on the state of Bathsheba and Troy's marriage.

Erich: Agreed

Pam: Well said

Jean: Thank you so much for that tidbit. It’s telling that Troy’s creator thought him capable of that. I’m glad Hardy left it out though as it would have been unbearable to read.

Sorry for the truncated responses, I’ve a lot of windshield time today.
I have a feeling we’re headed for some emotionally stirring chapters ahead…

Bionic Jean wrote: "Some time around now, Thomas Hardy wrote a chapter in which Troy deliberately infected the sheep with foot rot. This was so that the farm would fail, and he would get a lot of insura..."

Thank goodness I didn't have to read that chapter! It was bad enough reading the chapter where Gabriel's sheep, and the dog die!

Note: the link I originally posted in this comment (to a short video featuring a reading of one of Hardy's more humorous letters), which is mentioned in a couple of the posts below, has now been moved to the new "Odds and Ends" thread that Bridget started, here: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/... . (That's really a more appropriate permanent home for it, since it doesn't have anything directly to do with Far from the Madding Crowd as such!)

Werner: Thank you for posting the video, it’s fantastic. I’d say Hardy had the last laugh as he’s still in print.

Lori wrote: "Werner: Thank you for posting the video, it’s fantastic. I’d say Hardy had the last laugh as he’s still in print."

Glad you liked it, Lori! :-)

That was a fun video Werner! Thank you!

On to the next chapter.......

Chapter 40 On Casterbridge Highway



She Opened a Gate Within Which Was a Haystack, by Helen Paterson Allingham, Victorian Web

Fanny continues walking, her steps growing feebler. She stops to sleep by a haystack, then awakens ”in the depths of a moonless and starless night” to see Casterbridge in the distance, and wonders if she’ll ever get there. ” A manor-house clock from the far depths of shadow struck the hour, one, in a small, attenuated tone.” Fanny rises and starts walking along the fence, resting again by a thicket. She opens a gate to find “faggots” or bundles of sticks where woodmen had been working. She fashions them into crutches to help her walk.

Fanny passes a milestone, then a second, but is then exhausted again. She falls once again, then rises and staggers to a rail fence: she can see the Casterbridge lights, though there’s not a sound. She has less than a mile to go, she tells herself, moving from one post to the next. She crawls to the end of the rails, telling herself she has only a half mile more. But she can’t move anymore. She gives in and closes her eyes.

Fanny becomes conscious again and sees a dog approach her. He licks her cheek. Hopeful, she points in the direction of Casterbridge so he might fetch someone. But s when she doesn’t follow, he returns, then whines when she can’t accompany him, tugging at her dress. They move slowly together up the hill, and finally reach a picturesque building, covered by ivy, the Union house. A man emerges and lifts Fanny through the door, as he and other women wonder how she got there. Fanny asks about the dog, but the man stoned him away.

The narration shifts to Fanny’s point of view. In some ways, Fanny’s determination recalls Bathsheba’s own forthright resolve—both women have that personality trait. But in other ways Fanny is far more vulnerable than Bathsheba, whose wealth protects her from such a dire state.

The description of Fanny’s increasingly halting steps is excruciating in its detail. In terms of physical distance, Fanny is near her goal, but in terms of the physical and psychological strength it requires, she is almost unable to reach it.

Here the book offers an example of an instance when chance and circumstance intervene for the better, as Fanny is helped along by an animal. Compared to the less positive outcome when chance played a hand in Gabriel’s over-eager dog (George’s son) had contributed to his own disaster and tragedy.

While Fanny's journey broke my heart, but I did love this description of the dog that rescues her:

"Being thus assignable to no breed, he was the ideal embodiment of canine greatness—a generalization from what was common to all. Night, in its sad, solemn, and benevolent aspect, apart from its stealthy and cruel side, was personified in this form. Darkness endows the small and ordinary ones among mankind with poetical power"

And after all the sadness, I also really appreciate this wry comment:

" A neighbouring earl once said that he would give up a year’s rental to have at his own door the view enjoyed by the inmates from theirs—and very probably the inmates would have given up the view for his year’s rental.

A litte more . . .

Jacquet Droz - Pierre Jacquet-Droz (1721-90) a famous Swiss clockmaker and designer of automatons which could be activated to write and play musical instruments, etc.

Pleiades - this constellation was mentioned back in Chapter 2, but here’s a refresher. Pleiades, otherwise known as the Seven Sisters or “sailing stars”. The Greeks considered navigation safe when the Pleiades were visible. In the Greek mythology, the Pleiades were the seven daughters of Pleione and Atlas. After their deaths they were transformed into a cluster of twinkling stars, hence “restless”.

What an emotionally draining chapter. Thank you so much for this, Bridget.

What really turned the knife in the wound for me, was the last thing the man said (about the dog). For me, the dog was like an unearthly presence, which gave Fanny the motivation to carry on. I really wish Thomas Hardy hadn't added that last comment 🥹

And a little more ...

We can still trace Fanny's journey in real life Dorset today.

Fanny is making her way to the Dorchester Union Workhouse ("Casterbridge Union-house") which was built in 1836.



Bridget has explained about these parish workhouses - the Poor Law institutions for the district - in an earlier post. The building is now Damers Hospital in Damers Road, Dorchester.

"The milestone on Mellstock Hill", where we first see Fanny and she is already very weak, is in real life the Roman Milestone on Stinsford Hill. In 1988, when there was a new bypass constructed, it was re-sited to very near its original position in the bank.

Approaching Grey's Bridge (correct name) Fanny drags herself along the iron railings. 😧 These are still there, by the roadside on the approach to Grey's Bridge on the East side of Dorchester.

When she wants to avoid going through the town, helped by the dog Fanny "turned to the left into the dense shade of a deserted avenue of chestnuts, and so skirted the borough."
This is Salisbury Walks, one of a series of avenues, following the course of the former Roman walls around Dorchester. This section forms part of the eastern boundary.

Werner wrote: "This short video (linked to here on Goodreads on the Thomas Hardy page) features a reading, by bookseller and literary podcaster Brad Craft, of a letter by Hardy on the subject of book critics/revi..."

Thanks, Werner, that was fun!!!

An interesting chapter. The description of Fanny's determination to keep going was indeed rough to read.

It moves forward more of Fanny's tale but it also shows how far she has fallen. Somehow she still holds out hope that Troy will save her. Does he still have a soft spot for her? I really doubt that — with yesterday's chapter, despite his soft words, I figured he was doing what he could to quickly get rid of her before Bathsheba recognized her.

And now she is in Casterbridge; how will Troy keep the two women from becoming aware of each other?

Bridget: Thank you kindly for your summary of this chapter. I loved the quotes you shared!

Jean: Thank you for all the extra information! What would Hardy think if he knew all those landmarks were still around today?

Well, this was just a pitiful chapter to read. My heart just broke for Fanny here. Look how far she has fallen in this chapter. She even tries to calculate the remaining steps it will take her to get to the parish workhouse. Sheesh! And the dog was even willing to do more for her at this point than Troy. I do regret that the dog didn’t get much of a thank you.

I keep wondering as I’ve been reading these last few chapters if any unmarried young women read this story and chose a husband more wisely after taking all this in. I’d like to think a few girls read this in their mother’s parlor and decided she didn’t want to end up like Fanny. I doubt very much that’s what Hardy had in mind but I’m still clinging to that hope.

Pam: I do agree and also noticed that Troy has definitely put effort into keeping these women from discovering his relationship with the other. I think that was part of the reason for his objection to Liddy attending the sword demonstration in the hollow. I’m sure he knew that Liddy would recognize him.

Thanks for all the supplemental material Jean and Bridget!

The last comment about the dog really struck me too, and although it broke my heart, I felt a lot of resonance in that one line, "I stoned him away."

On the most straightforward level, it speaks as nothing else could as to the potential in the human animal for callousness and brutality. These people who help Fanny couldn't be bothered to understand the dog's purpose, and they reacted out of their own mistaken assumptions. Presumably, they thought of the dog as merely an intruder or a nuisance. But if they had the capacity to empathize or truly understand what was happening, surely they would have acted differently. And that's what's happening in the human story on so many levels too, with Bathsheba and her unthinking disregard for the men who care for her, with Troy and his callousness toward the position he leaves women in, and even in the banter between the workmen, in their own mutual misunderstandings.

But on a deeper level, I feel a piercing question here as to where we place value as human beings and why. For, at first, as it is described, Fanny has fallen below the stray ("homeless") dog's level:

"In her reclining position she looked up to him just as in earlier times she had, when standing, looked up to a man."

This seems like a deep fall indeed, that she has become worse than an animal, even to the point of needing to look up to it. But in reality, what could be more loyal, more kind, and more steadfast than this poor animal? It would give even Gabriel Oak a contest in goodness. It carries half Fanny's weight for a entire half-mile, stopping when she needs to stop, even pulling her forward with its teeth. Maybe stooping low enough to ask for this animal's help was closer to wisdom after all? Is it degredation really, in the end? Or is this attitude of lowness, the position that is universally despised, really degrading at all?

The world of course does not honor such things, because it does not have the openness of heart to care for this good-hearted stray dog. But it is worthy of honor nevertheless, perhaps more worthy than anything.

And I love the fact that Hardy gives the dog this grace, even if the human beings in the story are too foolish to know how valuable it is.

I wonder if this sentiment ties back to those very lengthy scenes several chapters earlier of the barn like a church? The simple barn is described elaborately as something sacred, with its kneeling shearers and its chestnut design "whose very simplicity was the origin of . . . grandeur." As with the dog, perhaps there are some things that the world does not understand are sacred that actually are. In chapter 22, Hardy writes, "The . . . misty chestnut work of the rafters . . . referred to no exploded fortifying art or worn-out religious creed. The defense and salvation of the body by daily bread is still a study, a religion, and a desire."

Perhaps the point is that the dog, like that simple provision of daily bread, doesn't require any human acknowledgement to become sacred; the bread doesn't need to be raised up as a host to be transformed. In fact, it doesn't require human religion or human art at all; it requires nothing to be made worthy. The dog's goodness is sacred in itself, whether we recognize it or not.

Jean, I'm with you wishing Hardy wouldn't have included that last part about the dog. I found this cruelty very upsetting, and was it necessary? I had the hardest time starting this chapter--one thing or another interrupted me today, and after reading it thought something was warning me off the line.

But wonderful insights, everyone. Troy did say he liked Fanny best, so he may come through for her, but I don't hold out much hope.

And Werner, I loved that video--so true! I especially loved the last line: "..... I struggle gallantly on ..." 🤣

Bionic Jean wrote: "And a little more ...

We can still trace
Fanny's journey
in real life Dorset today..."

Jean, I really like when you add in the real-life places we are reading about. Thank you for including the picture of the hospital that replace the Union House.

Pamela wrote: "An interesting chapter. The description of Fanny's determination to keep going was indeed rough to read.

It moves forward more of Fanny's tale but it also shows how far she has fallen. Somehow she..."

Pam, these are great questions you are asking. I'm not sure Troy is capable of really loving anyone, but I do think he very much cares for Fanny. I think he was being truthful when he said he preferred her over Bathsheba. Though like Kathleen, I'm not holding my breath for him to rescue Fanny. He really could have done more for her on the turnpike. It's shameful, that he didn't help her.

I’d like to think a few girls read this in their mother’s parlor and decided she didn’t want to end up like Fanny. I doubt very much that’s what Hardy had in mind but I’m still clinging to that hope
Lori I am totally with you on this thought! I'm going to cling to that hope as well!!

Greg wrote: "T
The last comment about the dog really struck me too, and although it broke my heart, I felt a lot of resonance in that one line, "I stone..."

Greg - this is a really well thought out, beautiful post. I think we were all struck by the lack of care given to the dog, and you have encapsulated those feelings and themes so well.

But if they had the capacity to empathize or truly understand what was happening, surely they would have acted differently. And that's what's happening in the human story on so many levels too, with Bathsheba and her unthinking disregard for the men who care for her, with Troy and his callousness toward the position he leaves women in, and even in the banter between the workmen, in their own mutual misunderstandings.

I think this is spot on. As I read more of Thomas Hardy, I believe one of the themes running through all of his novels is this break down of empathy, and care for one another. As the world races towards modernity, it's what we leave behind.

As with the dog, perhaps there are some things that the world does not understand are sacred that actually are.

This feels very true to me. And it helps me understand better, when Hardy describes the dog as "the benevolent aspect of night personified". I struggled to understand how night is benevolent, but I think it has something to do with the sacredness you are describing. Because the peace and quiet of the darkness is a sacred thing.

Anyway, thank you for the lovely post!

Chapter 41 - Suspicion: Fanny is sent for

That same evening, Troy asks Bathsheba for 20 pounds, and her face sinks. Bathsheba wants to know what for, she says if she pays, she has the right to know, pouting a little, but he tells her not to go too far or she’ll regret it. Bathsheba says she already regrets the end of her romance. That’s what happens at marriage, her husband says.

Sighing, Bathsheba gives him the money. Troy opens his watch case revealing a lock of hair, which Bathsheba sees. Troy at first says it’s hers, but she’s seen that it was yellow hair. Troy tells her she’s wrong, but Bathsheba won’t give in to Troy’s “gaslighting”, she knows what she’s seen. Finally, Troy gives up and admits that it belongs to someone he was going to marry before her.

Troy tells Bathsheba not to be jealous. She cries that he’s cruel to her and asks him to burn the lock. Troy says there is a reparation to be made that she knows nothing of. He too repents of marrying her. Troy says he hasn’t looked at the lock for months: it was the meeting with the woman today that reminded him.

Bathsheba begs Troy for honesty, but he snaps at her and leaves. She begins to sob, but then determines to repress her feelings and maintain her pride. Before Troy she’d been proud of her position as independent woman. Bathsheba was a kind of Diana, self-sufficient and respectable, now she wishes she had never left such a life.

The next morning Bathsheba walks across the farm. She thinks of Gabriel and Boldwood, what life would have been like with either of them. But she’s not a woman often subject to such musings.

She sees Boldwood approach Gabriel across the field. They stop Poorgrass and talk with him. When Poorgrass gets to the house, Bathsheba asks him for the news. He says Fanny Robbin is dead. Boldwood is going to send a wagon to fetch the body. Bathsheba says that she will do so. She asks how long Fanny has lived at the Union house. Poorgrass says she arrived at the Union-house on Sunday, having walked all the way from Melchester.

Suddenly, Bathsheba asks if Fanny walked on the turnpike road. She did, Poorgrass says, before remarking that Bathsheba looks pale. Fanny passed Weatherbury Saturday night. Before sending him off, Bathsheba asks what color her hair was; he is embarrassed to answer. He imagines she might have died simply from exposure. Bathsheba intently asks if he’s heard another story: he hasn’t. She wonders, looking down, why Gabriel hasn’t told her himself, but Poorgrass says he was perhaps busy.

Going inside, Bathsheba asks Liddy what the color of Fanny Robbin’s hair was—it was beautiful golden hair, she says. Her young man was a soldier in Troy’s regiment, she adds Troy once told her he knew the young man as well as he knew himself, and looked a great deal like him. Bathsheba stops her petulantly.

Bathsheba no longer trusts Troy with money, nor with much else. Troy, meanwhile, continues to be able to get his own way. Troy is now cruel to Bathsheba in a way he never was when they were courting, only cementing Bathsheba’s loss of romantic illusions.

Hardy gives us more clock motifs in this chapter with Troy’s watch. It is emblematic of his frivolity and thoughtlessness, but it also shows us that Troy has sincere, earnest feelings for Fanny. He wasn’t lying to Boldwood, when he said he loved Fanny better. Also, we can compare this to Gabriel’s watch, which aligns with his pragmatic, problem-solving character.

There is another parallel to be drawn between Bathsheba and Troy, two imperfect though, in different ways, earnest people. Troy waffles back and forth with his commitments to Bathsheba, as she did with Boldwood, regarding his feelings. Also, Troy lashes out at Bathsheba in a cruel way, even though she’s had a temper herself in the past. But here Bathsheba’s pain also has to do with her recognition of her vulnerable role as Troy’s wife, as well as of everything she’s lost as a result of an impetuous choice, including her majestic, goddess-like authority.

A little more . . .

non lucendo - from the latin phrase "lucus a non lucendo" a provervial example of illogicality and irrationality.

use nor principal - in monetary terms, "principal" is the money invested and "use" is the interest paid on it. Idiomatically the phrase means "never at all".

I too must thank Greg for clarifying and going deeper into the vague thought that was in my mind. It seemed such a needless sentence about the dog - as a few of us thought - and I said that the dog was like an "unearthly presence", but knew that was not quite right. It definitely represents something else, something larger, and I like your interpretation very much - thank you!

Just to add, Bridget, in case it wasn't clear, the photo is of the Union workhouse in Dorchester ("Casterbridge"), built in 1836. I could have chosen a more recent one with better definition, but this building is the same one which Fanny was struggling towards, in Hardy's mind.

Because it is now used as a hospital it has more buildings round it, and a chapel was built in 1900.

Thank you so much for this excellent summary and comments Bridget! (I must look up gaslighting again ... I can never remember what it means! But we can all see what Troy is like).

I picked up on Thomas Hardy using "young wife" to refer to Bathsheba, when she was talking to Joseph Poorgrass. He was stressing her status and relationship (to Troy) as opposed to Fanny's in a very ironic way.

Bridget - thank you also for choosing the cover post, of Fanny Robin looking so angelic. It is perfect. And also pointing out the motif of time, and the watch. What a ghastly mistake by Troy, to open the back of the watch instead of the face. I think we might almost call it a "Freudian slip". If it hadn't been for that, perhaps Fanny's identity would have been kept secret from Bathsheba, but it set her down a path of discovery. Another twist of fate!

What a terribly sad chapter. 🥹 And as others have said, a cautionary tale for young girls and women. Why do we think Fanny might have lost her position as a seamstress?

It feels extremely uncomfortable and almost voyeuristic, reading the first part of this chapter, with the married couple carping at each other. What is exercising my thoughts most is that this is the September installment and Thomas Hardy married Emma Gifford this very month, on 17th September 1874!

What would his readers deduce, reading this in the Cornhill? Would they be able to keep it separate, or when they read Troy saying so bitterly "All romance ends at marriage" would they wonder if it was personal?

Emma Gifford's father had already called Thomas Hardy "a base churl", and not wanted her to marry him. (Her uncle performed the ceremony to marry them in London though.) What would her parents' instinctive reaction be, now? I think they might have preferred to read some romantic poetry penned by new son-in-law, in their monthly magazine. 🤔

Greg, I also greatly appreciated your wonderfully insightful comment; thanks for sharing it!

On the previous thread, Jean called attention to the article by Peter J. Casagrande, "A New View of Bathsheba Everdene" (which is included in the Norton critical edition of this novel --and which has lots of spoilers for this book, as she warned, as well as for other Hardy novels he refers to) where he argues that Bathsheba is essentially a static character. I was able to read it this past Friday (it's short enough to be read in a single long sitting).

Personally, I remain convinced that B. E. is a dynamic character --with the caveat that this doesn't mean that she changes so much that the lady at the end of the book isn't recognizable as the one we met at the beginning, or that she becomes morally perfect. IMO, there are serious criticisms that can be made of Casagrande's conclusions and methodology; but since some of them would involve spoilers, I'll leave that discussion for a later time.

Werner wrote: "I'll leave that discussion for a later time..."

Good idea - it will make a good "after-novel" discussion with specific quotes and references, if you like.

Sorry for the following slight digression and recap. all ...

Peter J. Casagrande is an American academic with a special interest in Thomas Hardy, and who has written several books about him, as well as about the modern novel. I think he is/was affiliated with the University of Kansas.

I drew attention to his specific theory here, as it's good to have a challenge to the mainstream perceived opinion of Bathsheba as someone who learns by her mistakes. Both you and Erich (and perhaps others) seem at the moment to adhere to this view, but it's good to have an open mind as we read on. Certainly we all hope that she will! (view spoiler)[The ending of this book can be seen that way, but there is another view, as he vindicates and fully explains. I'm not surprised by anyone disagreeing with his conclusions; we all like a "happy ending", but (hide spoiler)] I am surprised you question his methodology, Werner, but you can explain why then.

I think everyone is weeping for poor Fanny ... 🥹

We did not hear about her for so long, and now this entire installment is all about her.

I notice with Thomas Hardy, that unlike some other Victorian writers he keeps to one scene for one chapter, and then moves on. It makes for a very streamlined read. Today's chapter was a slight departure, as we had two scenes and locations, with some separate characters and over two days. Yet still the focus is on Fanny.

Bridget wrote: "Greg wrote: "T
The last comment about the dog really struck me too, and although it broke my heart, I felt a lot of resonance in that one line, "I stone..."

Greg - this is a really well thought ou..."

Greg, we kind of cross-posted yesterday and I missed your wonderful insights.
As with the dog, perhaps there are some things that the world does not understand are sacred that actually are.

What you say is so true, and something for us to watch for as we continue reading.

And Bridget, I completely agree with you:
As I read more of Thomas Hardy, I believe one of the themes running through all of his novels is this break down of empathy, and care for one another. As the world races towards modernity, it's what we leave behind.

What you have both said also makes me wonder about the things we are missing in our reading today that someone in the future will find ignorant and cruel.

So tragic about Fanny. And I'm also feeling bad for Bathsheba. She had a pretty short courtship for all of it to end at her marriage. I agree with Werner that she is a dynamic character. I've felt a kind of churning going on inside her from the beginning.

I'm wondering if Fanny's death will have any impact on Troy.

Kathleen wrote: "So tragic about Fanny. And I'm also feeling bad for Bathsheba. She had a pretty short courtship for all of it to end at her marriage. I agree with Werner that she is a dynamic character. I've felt ..."

I wonder about that as well, Kathleen. It is amazing that Troy was so open to Bathsheba about his feelings for Fanny and his almost distain for Bathsheba. It makes you think that he only married her for the money and position that she has — had????

Thanks for the kind words everyone, and I enjoyed your addition of the sacredness of peaceful darkness Bridget!

As everyone else, I'm feeling sorry for both Fanny and Bathsheba here in chapter 41. I don't hold out hope myself for any extensive remorse from Troy on Fanny's fate - even though he might care for Fanny, he seems too self absorbed to be remorseful about anything that doesn't touch upon him directly for very long.

Bionic Jean wrote: "Thank you also for choosing the cover post, of Fanny Robin looking so angelic.[..."

I'm so glad you liked the cover picture (at the top of this thread) of Fanny. I think it must be from a point in the movie where Fanny thought she was going to marry Troy, and she looks so beautiful in her wedding costume, I thought, I have to use it. It's better to remember her looking that way. And, as you said Installment 9 is all about Fanny. (Privately I've coined them "the Fanny chapters").

We've had so many wonderful comments today. Thank you everyone! I love all the speculating, and theorizing. The story is really moving along now.

And once again, as Jean noted we have more than one scene in tomorrow's chapter as well. It sure makes for a long summary (sorry about that everyone). So, here is goes . . .