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The "Permafree" Question
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Or, you could just go the KDP Select route and only advertise when you have a free sale happening. How long is not long enough to be worth 99¢?
Christina wrote: "Just a thought... Though it won't really attract new readers, but you could offer it as a free dowload from your website and advertise it as an 'extra' in the back of your current books. Or, you c..."
We are going to offer it for free on our blog, but as our blog average maybe 2 visits per day, and mostly from the same few people, that's not worth much. (We are trying to get things to perk up by offering sample chapters from our upcoming book.)
We have thought of the KDP select route (we couldn't put it on the website then, but small loss), but we are concerned about how it would look. I don't really know how long is long enough -- personally. I look askance anything less than about 35,000 words maybe. But I have no idea what others think. Maybe 25,000? I see negative comments about authors "profiteering" but I no idea how seriously to take them. (Some of it sounds like simple indie-author bashing.)
Any ideas? We have no idea how long the story will be. We're all of 3 pages into it today.
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Christina wrote: "I have a 15K word story for 99¢ which is about 40 pages. Although I do offer it for free through Select, I feel that it is worth a buck. My 23K novella is priced at $2.99. In this case, I have a v..."Sounds good to me! We would prefer just to drop it on Amazon and offer it for free as often as possible via KDP Select. Don't think we could write less than 10-15K words if we tried. (The response I once sent to a journalist asking a question about China was ~14K words.)
Thanks!
I am making a two book story. The first book is a 120K word story. I was thinking of maybe making the first half, 60K for 99 cents and the second half 60K for 2.99. And supposedly the second book would be approx 100k for 2.99
Robert wrote: "I am making a two book story. The first book is a 120K word story. I was thinking of maybe making the first half, 60K for 99 cents and the second half 60K for 2.99. And supposedly the second book w..."Why cut it? 120k isn't that long. You're risking infuriating the readers with a story that cuts in the middle. They'll feel cheated, even if the book isfree, because they now have to buy the other book. (Yet, they often won't.)That's the main complain about indies, the forced cliffhanger. There's a huge difference between a book with some unresolved parts, and a book that is just unfinished. Personally, I can deal with the first, but I won't touch the second kind if I Know in advance (and I would certainly warn potential readers about it in my review).
I agree with G.G. on the forced cliffhanger, it's one thing to have unresolved issues and another to cut it in the middle.Unresolved issues or things that leave the reader asking questions / wanting to know more, lead to sequels or companion stories set in the same reality.
Chopping a book in half as a marketing ploy, that does tend to tick people off. A split or $0.99 and then $2.99 could also kick off the question of quality, is the second half really worth that much more?
I've got a novel of roughly 140,000 words, set in three parts. Each part would make a decent length novella, and each part is capable of standing alone. I could chop the novel into three standalone installments but I won't, because the three together tell a complete story from several different POVs.
There are 2 steps involved in making a book "permafree"* on Amazon:1) Publish the work on Amazon for whatever price you want, and somewhere else like Smashwords that allows the book to be free, and that distributes to other markets which Amazon sees as competitors (B&N, Kobo, and Apple primarily).
2) Have as many people as you can go to the story's Amazon page and have them click "tell us about a lower price" and fill out the form (provide your customers the urls to where the book is free.
Step #2 may take a while, and in one case I had to email Amazon and tell them that one work was available elsewhere for free and that it was hurting potential sales of my non-free books on Amazon. They complied w/in 24 hours.
On the Smashwords Authors Group there's a thread for having people help fill out the lower price notice form: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Just note that Amazon makes this really difficult for you. Unlike their easy-peasy "enter the price once and it bleeds to all worldwide markets" function when you publish a book, you actually have to do steps 1 & 2 above on ALL Amazon sites individually. Pain. In. The. Youknowwhat.
* Permafree is relative. Amazon is under no obligation to make the book free, nor to keep it that way. I've had a couple books have their prices hiked back up even though the books are available cheaper on B&N and elsewhere. I'm not sure what drives that.
Micah wrote: "There are 2 steps involved in making a book "permafree"* on Amazon:1) Publish the work on Amazon for whatever price you want, and somewhere else like Smashwords that allows the book to be free, a..."
Thanks Micah. I take it you experienced no negative consequences? (A notice to delist your book, terminate your KDP account for TOS violations -- if you have one -- or something?) We are leery of tweaking Amazon for the sake a free short story.
I was wondering...can someone not on KDP select change the price of her or his book for free (for a few days, not permanent)?
G.G. wrote: "I was wondering...can someone not on KDP select change the price of her or his book for free (for a few days, not permanent)?"I don't think so. The ability offer a book free for a limited time is a KDP Select feature.
Owen wrote: "Thanks Micah. I take it you experienced no negative consequences? (A notice to delist your book, terminate your KDP account for TOS violations -- if you have one -- or something?) We are leery of tweaking Amazon for the sake a free short story."Amazon's policy is that they will match the price of their competitors. It's their policy. The process I explained above isn't forcing them to do anything. It's simply using their system as designed. So there's nothing for them to complain about really. If they don't want to list free works, then they can up the price back to $0.99 and get beaten by their competitors.
So, no. I've received no negative consequences for doing this. The fact that they dropped the one price to free as a result of a direct email asking them to signifies they really have no issue with this.
Owen wrote: "G.G. wrote: "I was wondering...can someone not on KDP select change the price of her or his book for free (for a few days, not permanent)?"I don't think so. The ability offer a book free for a li..."
That's correct. The free for a short time (countdown deal) is only available to Kindle Select books.
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You also have to take into consideration that there are some authors who confuse KDP and KDP Select. If they are enrolled in Select then yes, having the book listed anywhere else at any price is a violation of the TOS.
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It also helps if you've had some sales at 0.99 before you make it permafree.
And asking friends (like us) to help report the price as free for the various Amazon sites for your to-be-free book helps too. Sometimes that will help it happen automatically (at some point) without having to contact support. But apparently that speeds it up.
Micah wrote: "Owen wrote: "Thanks Micah. I take it you experienced no negative consequences? (A notice to delist your book, terminate your KDP account for TOS violations -- if you have one -- or something?) We a..."Thanks. That's good to know. When it comes to policies of this kind, life has taught me caution regarding the manner in which they are interpreted at any given time.
Christina: I would love know to how people negotiate a permafree offering with Amazon. Many authors/publishers do. Since the books this short story will promote are all in KDP Select, it will help sell work that is exclusive to Amazon. And if the story comes in at around 15K words, that's the sample length of the last book. So we may just write KDP when we upload it and ask if they would consider it in that light and allow us to set the price as free.
But, based on your earlier comment, if the story can be deemed as worth $0.99, that is option we like best.
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Christina wrote: "As far as how to negotiate without going through the steps above? That's easy! Be a bestseller."Gosh! Now why didn't I think of that?
Jamie wrote: "I'm in the process of getting a feeder short story permafree right now. Waiting for it to go live @ free on the other distributors (apparently Amazon prioritizes it as: Apple > B&N > Kobo > Smashwo..."Interesting. I believe B&N accepts direct submissions? Is that correct?
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Christina wrote: "I know, right? I'm not kidding though, if you can prove a certain level of revenue, they are willing to negotiate. For the rest of us, not so much."In a sense neither am I. I'm curious to know what that level is. They know our track record. When we are ready, I suppose it would not hurt to ask.
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For Americans, yes. I'm Canadian, so use Draft2Digital (for B&N, Scribd and others, while going direct to KDP, Kobo and Apple)
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I don't think that's actually the case. What happens is that their books have higher volume, so the Amazon price-matching bots pick up the free prices elsewhere faster so it can be almost instantaneous.
Jamie wrote: "For Americans, yes. I'm Canadian, so use Draft2Digital (for B&N, Scribd and others, while going direct to KDP, Kobo and Apple)..."Do you like Draft2Digital?
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I don't think that's actually the case. What happens is that their books have hig..."
The easiest indicator as to whether it is a price match or a negotiation is to look at the unit price. If there is a dollar amount that is crossed out, it is price matched. If the actual price is $0.00 it is negotiated. Obvious examples are samplers sent by trad publishers
Jamie wrote: "Christina wrote: "As far as how to negotiate without going through the steps above? That's easy! Be a bestseller."I don't think that's actually the case. What happens is that their books have hig..."
I believe Christina is correct. If you go on Amazon's free lists, there are books (usually the first in a popular series) that are marked permanently as free. All the examples I've noticed thus far are from Big 5 publishers and authors like David Weber. But I suppose that doesn't rule out them negotiating with independent authors.
Owen wrote: "I would love know to how people negotiate a permafree offering with Amazon...."If you look at Matthew's post at the top of this page you'll see how he did it:
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
I sent a similar email, but much, much shorter and Amazon dropped the price of one of my short stories w/in a day.
OTOH, as I said above...all my other books I had price matched on Amazon to something other than free (but cheaper than the list price on Amazon)...and then they mysteriously upped the price again back to list price???Why I don't know.
Micah wrote: "If you look at Matthew's post at the top of this page you'll see how he did it:https://www.goodreads...."
That is a heck of letter! I think I would write something shorter, at least initially.
If Amazon (by what ever method they use), concludes that price matching a work does not benefit them, I would imagine they would reinstate the list price. In the case of a free book, the purpose (from their POV) would be to sell other books, and if it didn't (in their view), there's no point in letting remain free. I'd love to know how they make that determination, though.
My free books have remained free, just my non-free ones reverted to their higher price.Oh well, when I run Smashword coupon deals, they'll just get undercut even more.
Micah wrote: "My free books have remained free, just my non-free ones reverted to their higher price.Oh well, when I run Smashword coupon deals, they'll just get undercut even more."
I missed that point. That is odd.
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Do you like Draft2Digital?"
They're really easy to work with. I set them up way back when I first published, but just used them to go wide again this past weekend.
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I don't think that's actually the case. What happens is that their ..."
I never actually took note of free books from big5 publishers before. They're not using KDP, so it's a completely different ballgame anyway. Nor would Amazon imprint authors. But for indies with high sales, they get matched to free very quickly anyway.
Thank for the info on the options here. Putting this all together, it's looking like publishing it for $0.99 and letting it ride for a bit before going the "permafree" route might be the ticket. We'll have see where things are when we're ready to publish.
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Here's the link by the way so you can pick it up from your site of choice. :)
http://www.jamiemaltman.com/book/elys...
The first book of my series is free and comes in at over 100K! I think short stories annoy me as a reader personally, and I am unlikely to buy the next book...I know an author who has an agent & publisher who released her book as four short novellas at 99p each. It works for her and readers pay £4 for the entire book. Seems fair? But, she has a marketing machine to support her.
As an unknown, you have to give readers the best you have. Then they'll come back for more :)
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I got exhausted just reading all of those steps! ;)
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I know an author who has an agent & ..."
And there are folks who only read short stories. To quote Owen (I think, might have been someone else here): publishing is not one size fits all.
Christina wrote: "To quote Owen (I think, might have been someone else here): publishing is not one size fits all. .."I think that was Micah, though it a sentiment I heartily endorse. : )
I used to ignore short stories. After reading a few great ones, I had to change my mind. While I still have problems with one book split in shorter ones with an insane cliffhanger at the end of each, there are full length novels that would have been better if cut down to shorter ones so I have to agree, there is no one size fits all just like there's not a one genre fits all either. That's what makes reading so much fun.
Vanessa wrote: "I know an author who has an agent & publisher who released her book as four short novellas at 99p each. It works for her and readers pay £4 for the entire book. Seems fair? But, she has a marketing machine to support her..."If that was on Amazon, that's an interesting choice, as it requires at least twice the sales volume to make it worthwhile. If it's working for her, that's good. I seen it backfire, too.
G.G. wrote: "I used to ignore short stories. After reading a few great ones, I had to change my mind. While I still have problems with one book split in shorter ones with an insane cliffhanger at the end of ..."Frankly, we have some trepidation about using a short story to launch a new series. The short story is not cliff-hanger, of course, but more of an extended prologue (in the sense that it sets up the MC's further adventures). It's hard to say what reaction our prospective readers will have. As with everything in this business, we'll have to live and learn.
Owen wrote: "If that was on Amazon, that's an interesting choice, as it requires at least twice the sales volume to make it worthwhile. If it's working for her, that's good. I seen it backfire, too..."My thoughts exactly. First of all, I know I'd never read a book that's been broken up into shorter sections where you have to pay for each section.
That really annoys me.
But even if the novellas are complete stories, selling them at 99p each individually and at £4 for the collected works is a bit of an odd business decission.
Consider: (again, assuming this is Amazon) at 99p the royalties are going to be 30%. At £4 it's going to be 70%. From the consumer's point of view, it's actually cheaper to buy them individually: £3.96. Sure, it's only a 4p savings, but people would still recognize that and be more likely to buy cheaper.
Now...if the author sold the collection at something like £2.99, customers will be more likely to buy the complete work.
From the author's point of view, £2.99 is still in the 70% royalty window. Ignoring Amazon's delivery fee, one sale at £2.99 is only 70p less in royalties than one sale at £4. But it is 90p more than selling four of the novellas.
I.e., by selling the full book at 97p cheaper than the four novellas, you not only cut the customer a break, but you earn 90p more than by selling it piecemeal. Plus, since it's discounted from the price of the four novellas, you're more likely to sell more of them.
"Amazon's policy is that they will match the price of their competitors."If you have a bunch of stories listed for free on sites besides Amazon and 1 story on Amazon for $2.99 that is not the same story as any of the free stories would Amazon have any reason to lower the price?
Robert wrote: ""Amazon's policy is that they will match the price of their competitors."If you have a bunch of stories listed for free on sites besides Amazon and 1 story on Amazon for $2.99 that is not the sam..."
My understanding is no. Price matching only applies to a specific product. Also, Amazon has to learn about the lower price, and they are under no obligation to match it. They usually do, it seems, but they do not have to.
Owen,Do you know what is the lowest price one can charge on Amazon for a short story? Do you think that different items (short story, novella, regular story) use different price structures?
Robert wrote: "Owen,Do you know what is the lowest price one can charge on Amazon for a short story? Do you think that different items (short story, novella, regular story) use different price structures?"
The lowest price on Amazon is $0.99. People put up all kinds of work for $0.99: short stories, novellas, novels. From what I've seen, it seems different genres have different expectations as to price. The best thing I can suggest is find work that is roughly similar and try to get an idea what authors charge for it, and it is sells or if readers object.
I have a 10-11 page short story out mainly as a promotion. Never expected anyone to pay .99 for it, mainly intended it to get grabbed through KU and padded it with links and descriptions to everything in my library. But apparently someone thought it was worth paying for because I have sold one copy.
I'm aware of Amazon's policy on permanently free books and I actually support it. But it's placing us in a quandary: we have have a new spinoff series we've like to introduce with a short story. Our readers are all on Amazon, so (by far) the most effective way to bring this new series to our readers attention is via Amazon. But charging for a short story is not something we are comfortable with.
Thus our options appear to be: 1) offering the short story through another venue where it can be "permafree" and hope our readers can find it, 2) trying to get it to be free on Amazon in some way that will not irritate Amazon, 3) waiting until we can develop this story into something worth $0.99.
Have people had a similar issue and if so, how did it work out?
One other possible is uploading it here on GR. We have no real idea what sort of following we have here on GR, but whatever it is, it's greater than someplace we ain't. Has anyone uploaded something here on GR and how did it work for you?
Thanks!