The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910 discussion

What happened in the Bradshaw family?

How did public opinion change toward Ruth and Leonard?

How did you react to Ruth’s decision to work in the hospital during the plague, and then to care for Donne?

Did your opinion of any character change over time?

What did you think of the book overall?

If you’ve read other books by Gaskell, which one do you like best so far?

Do you want to read more of her books, based on this one?

From the endnotes:

The “plague” in this section probably corresponds to the typhus epidemic of 1837-39. There was another typhus epidemic in 1847-8, but other circumstances alluded to in the book wouldn’t fit this period.

I guess I like Wives and Daughters best of the ones I have read. I've wanted to read Ruth and North and South for ages now, so glad I have got to them this past year.

Thankful it was not a horrible, Thomas Hardy-esque tragic ending, anyway.

Jemima came around a little too quickly, maybe. Some satisfaction in some people getting what they deserved....
and without resorting to money from Mr. B/D.

My favorite is Wives and Daughters but I also like North and South. And Cranford is a delightful shorter book and great TV adaptation. I found Mary Barton more simplistic and preachy, though still an important book. (Years ago I gave a presentation about Gaskell and read all these.)

Lori wrote: "How did you react to Ruth’s decision to work in the hospital during the plague, and then to care for Donne?"

I thought Ruth became a less interesting character as she went from a young woman finding her way in life to becoming a saint, specifically a martyr (though not a virgin). She chose to leave her child motherless by risking almost certain death for a twisted form of self-redemption she seemed to need.

The storyline reminded me of the life stories of some saint I heard about during the first half of my 16 years of Catholic education. I found it interesting that Mrs. Gaskell, a religious Unitarian, as I also have been in the last half of my life, chose to tell a story that seemed more reflective of my earlier Catholic upbringing instead.


Lori wrote: "Did your opinion of any character change over time?"

As I said, as Ruth became a collection of self-martyr traits rather than the living breathing person she had been to me, she lost much interest to me. I really liked her character for most of the book. But my respect and fondness for her character lessened and, as Ruth's death became imminent (despite Gaskell's ploy of lulling the reader into a temporary sense of Ruth's survival) I even felt that Leonard would be better off being raised by less self-abusive guardians. Ruth probably felt that way too.

Lori wrote: "What did you think of the book overall?.."

I really liked the story during most of the book and just didn't like the way Gaskell portrayed Ruth's character and fate at the end. I am still pondering whether to rate a book I felt to be a solid 4 stars for 2/3 of the novel, as the 3 star novel it felt like upon finishing.

My ratings of Gaskell's works I have read so far in the order I rank them and with reviews of the more recently read:

Novels
1. North and South - 4 stars
2. Wives and Daughters - 4 stars
3. Ruth - 4 stars
4. Sylvia's Lovers - 3 stars
5. Mary Barton - 3 stars
6. Cranford - 3 stars
7. Mr. Harrison's Confessions - 3 stars

Short Stories
1. The Grey Woman - 4 stars https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
2. The Old Nurse's Story - 3 stars https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Before the book's ending portion, I had Ruth ranked third but may or may not still do so after I reflect on the ending. I thought all of Gaskell's books have been pleasing and very readable. She's a good storyteller.
EDIT: I rate Ruth as 4 stars and my 3rd favorite Gaskell.

I'm sorry, I think I accidentally deleted Comment #6. I was trying to delete my own while I figured out how to get the spoiler brackets correct, but I accidentally deleted the previous one. I'm very sorry, and please feel free to repost. It was about Gaskell feeling the need to give Ruth a "pious ending."

Ruth's ending reminds me a bit of Sophia from The Old Wives' Tale, in that (view spoiler)[both women die because they decided to tend their dying, crappy exes (hide spoiler)]

I think there's something like that at the end of Kristin Lavransdatter but I read it over 40 years ago, so I'm not sure.

That's right Lori and Robin. Well spotted. Ruth's ending was similar to aspects of both Sophia's and Kristin's.
For Ruth, her demise was after seeing her crappy ex. (view spoiler)[ I don't remember her doing much tending though as I thought he was dead on her arrival - she had a health condition from Paris-time and the trek to Manchester to see the ex is what killed her. (hide spoiler)]
For Kristin, (view spoiler)[she got more religious, became a nun and died helping others in the black plague. This all came after her husband died in her arms trying to stick up for her - I think. (hide spoiler)]

Both are two heroines I really liked from books I rated as 5 stars. Based on that, I may try to cut Ruth more of a break on her self-martyrdom.

I see the arc of Ruth’s life a little differently from Bryan’s opinion. I see her as selfless in wanting to help Mr Donne, because he was Leonard’s father. I think if ever Mr Donne came around & wanted to see Leonard or Leonard wanted to see him - that Ruth wanted ti make sure that could happen. After all, Leonard had the benefit of Ruth for 12 years, and no time with his biological father.
I think it shows that Ruth believed so strongly in redemption that she wanted to give Mr D the benefit of the doubt.

I have only read Ruth and Mary Barton. I enjoyed both of them greatly and look forward to reading all of Mrs. Gaskell's novels.

Ruth's death was sad but not unexpected. I'm not sure I agree that she wanted to be a martyr, but certainly as a nurse in those times she had to know she was risking her life and possibly even bringing the plague home to Leonard and the Bensons. That she chose to nurse B/D isn't surprising, given that she still had some love for who he was in his youth; it was also not surprising that he who brought her to ruin in youth would later be the instrument of her death. B/D's callousness after Ruth's death and his relief at leaving the Benson home cemented his position as a cowardly wretch.

I am grateful that there was a happy resolution to the dilemma of Leonard's future since the Bensons and Sally were aging and would soon be unable to provide for him. Leonard, through his mother, has now won the esteem of many of Eccleston inhabitants and will benefit by being apprenticed to Mr. Wynne. In addition to Mr. Wynne's kindness, his confession that he was also born out of wedlock will help Leonard navigate the crueler parts of his situation.

I have read all Elizabeth Gaskell’s novels and, in my opinion, none deserve less than four stars.

My five star favourites are Mary Barton,North and SouthandWives and Daughters.

In writing Ruth the author bravely told a story from a victim’s point of view, a story that far too many people in Victorian society could not accept.

Ruth’s own bravery, both facing the scorn of society and the dangers of disease, stood out as a shining light in this novel. Her death was premature, I would have liked her to have continued her selfless activities and maybe risen to achieve the stature of a Florence Nightingale type figure, because that is what she deserved.

Of the supporting characters it was disconcerting, that Bellingham/Donne, the blight of her life, should finally administer the dose of death she had avoided for so long in the hospital. The fact that he tried to pay her off twice, once in life after seducing her, and once after her death on behalf of her son, only deepens the contempt readers should feel for such a callous individual. Unlike Ruth, he got away with his ‘wrong’ and for people like him it seems to be still happening like that today.

I was pleased how Jemima and Farquhar became such good friends to Ruth and Leonard after their tempestuous journey to eventual marriage. After my possibly misplaced admonishment of the two in the last section, their efforts played a major part in reintegrating Ruth and her boy back into favour both with the Bradshaws and wider society. But, essentially, it was Ruth’s own bravery, her willingness to ignore the taunts and quietly put herself in the firing line where others were unwilling to go, that eventually led to her redemption. However that redemption was in the eyes and minds of others, not herself, because of her own self condemnation. In acknowledging Ruth’s skills and bravery, it seemed like society’s need overcame its prejudices.

I would make this book compulsory on all English literature curricula (maybe even with simplified versions or a graphic version to cope with the ridiculously low levels of comprehension which prevail today). The themes of grooming, stigma, prejudice and self condemnation are no less relevant now than they were 150 years ago.

The article below attempts to explain the effects that typhus had on nineteenth century society.

https://19thcentury.us/typhus-19th-ce...

This extract got me thinking…

’ One key turning point in the understanding of typhus came with the work of Florence Nightingale during the Crimean War (1853-1856). She realized that overcrowding, poor sanitation, and lack of ventilation in hospitals contributed to the spread of diseases like typhus. Her advocacy for improved hospital conditions and nursing practices led to significant improvements in patient care and a decrease in typhus mortality rates.’

Could Florence have read Elizabeth Gaskell’s novel? Published during the first year of the Crimean War, (1853) would the book have disgusted her, or been one of the many encouragements leading her to improve hospital conditions?

Thanks for the info Trev.
I do have a question for Trev or others on here about Bellingham/Donne. Personally, his sale of his family name for money did surprise me.

I understand that many aristocratic families were cash poor with lifestyles and estates dependent on heirs marrying wealthy women. That is a plot point in many a Victorian novel along with Edith Wharton's The Buccaneers and the 20th Century-set TV show influenced by it, Downton Abbey.

However, at the beginning of this novel, I had pictured Bellingham as a fairly wealthy aristocrat from a proud family. He seemed to act as if he had sufficient disposable income. Based on his mother's arrogant attitude it surprised me that the family name could be bought. Her arrogance had me wonder if Donne was possibly his mother's maiden name.

I guess I didn't have as much of a question as I was interested in whether others had any thoughts on this plot aspect or could point me to explanatory things I may have missed in the book. I had presumed that Gaskell didn't feel the need or desire to explore the issue that much as she had just used it as a mere plot device to add a brief bit of mystery and to point out Bellingham's lack of substance - he is a man who is easily bought.

Trev wrote: "Could Florence have read Elizabeth Gaskell’s novel? Published during the first year of the Crimean War, (1853) would the book have disgusted her, or been one of the many encouragements leading her to improve hospital conditions?."

It's not impossible: Gaskell & Nightingale met. The question is: did Nightingale need information or encouragement?

Brian E wrote: "Thanks for the info Trev.
I do have a question for Trev or others on here about Bellingham/Donne. Personally, his sale of his family name for money did surprise me.

I understand that many aristocr..."

That's a good point; Donne may have been his mother's family name. Perhaps there were no male heirs on that side so their estate went to him. I think we've seen men change their names for an estate in other novels we've read together.

sabagrey wrote: "Trev wrote: ".. It's not impossible: Gaskell & Nightingale met. The question is: did Nightingale need information or encouragement?"

Yes you are right. Elizabeth Gaskell stayed at Florence’s house in 1854. I conclude from that that Florence was probably an admirer of Gaskell’s work. Ruth’s work as a nurse might have been inspired by Gaskell’s admiration of Florence Nightingale if she knew of her before that time. They both were actively involved in improving conditions especially for the poorer sections of society.

Brian E wrote: "That's right Lori and Robin. Well spotted. Ruth's ending was similar to aspects of both Sophia's and Kristin's.
For Ruth, her demise was after seeing her crappy ex. [spoilers removed]
For Kristin..."

There's also an element of this at the end of The Tenant of Wildfell Hall, but it works out better for the woman in that case. I was amazed at how feminist that book was!

Lori wrote: “That's a good point; Donne may have been his mother's family name. Perhaps there were no male heirs on that side so their estate went to him. I think we've seen men change their names for an estate in other novels we've read together."

Yes, I can’t think of any other reason he would change his name for property, unless it was some sort of swindle.

Whatever he did, the name change helped him on his feet by landing him with a cushy job followed by a position of even greater power than before. If he eventually became PM I wonder if Ruth would have been included in his lucrative memoirs?

Trev wrote: "Ruth’s work as a nurse might have been inspired by Gaskell’s admiration of Florence Nightingale."

Gaskell's admiration for Nightingale was mixed - I noticed that in a biography; which pointed me to a few sentences in North&South, where Margaret apparently expresses the author's feelings about Nightingale's type of altruism. (view spoiler)[Margaret thinks, during her self-reflection back in London, that she is not able to do good to humanity in general, but needs specific individuals to care for. (hide spoiler)] It seems Gaskell was a little critical of, or at least a stranger to, Nightingale's bold plans because they risked to leave behind one or the other needful individual. (today we would probably say it is the conflict between charity and politics) - This is interesting because Nightingale is mostly represented as the caring nurse, her farther-reaching designs being ignored (because, of course, she was "only a woman").

That's interesting. Thanks, Sabine!