Fantasy Book Club discussion

So, i just finished Skin Gamethe last published of The Dresden Files series by Jim Butcher, which i love.
So, no release date for the next installment and i'm feeling like an orphan!
Another book that got me raging in solitude was The Name of the Wind By Patrick Rothfuss subsequently The Wise Man's Fear and Pat's last years Twitter about Doors of Stone not to be published this year!
I'm not having the same problem with George R.R. Martin though... I don't know if its because i'm secure that HBO will deliver some GOT fix every year for me or i'm a little bit tired of winter taking it's sweet time to come.

Well, i don't mean for this to be a post about urban fantasy only, just wanted to share my eagerness for beloved series and discuss new books to tackle while waiting.

Ps: Excuse my english, have not practiced for a while.

Your English is fine, unlike the auto correct on my kindle. My daughter read the first few Harry Potters and then discovered there weren't any more published so she stopped reading too wait!

GRRM did it for me, I read what I thought was a trilogy in four parts only for the ending to not happen.

i have a few series im reading that arent finished yet.
its more or less any of sanderson's ongoing series, dresden files, gentelmen bastards, lightbringer and demon cycle.
i actually like the waiting part, it makes it so much more special when the book finally comes out.
that being said i do try and keep it to a minimum. only the series/authors i really really cant wait to read their books. the kingkiller, which im sure i'll love, i havent started yet.

My rule of thumb is (and has been for some time) to not start reading a series until it's complete (or near-complete.)

I've made exceptions (Game of Thrones, Wheel of Time, Wars of Light and Shadow, a few others), but that rule has generally served me well up until now.

I agree with the Shadow-Man, posted above. I avoid any series that is not finished.

I have had too many waiting experiences. I site two of my favorite authors: Jack Vance, "Dying Earth," series. First book published 1950, #4 in 1984. L. Sprague de Camp, "Unbeheaded King," series. First book published 1950(?). Last volume 1990(?).

Both series are great, and I did eventually finish them. But you do start to worry if the author might die before the series ends, and leaves me hanging.

I don't mind waiting on unfinished series as long as there isn't too much time between books (I'm looking at you, GRRM). There are enough books out there to keep me busy while waiting, and I don't want to get too far behind, especially with something with lots of parts like the Dresden Files and the Vlad Taltos series. So, I'm fine with waiting, but I don't want to wait so long that I forget what happened in the previous book.

Im also frustratingly waiting on Doors of Stone..Meanwhile Brandon Sanderson has a lot of unfinished series which I'm eager to start. But I don't want to have too many open series in the wait...I simply forget the story line and its hard to start into a next book with a huge gap ( Kingkillers Chronicles grrr haha ). So now I'm trying to decide on series that are finished or stand alones. Then there is the Shattered Sea series that I started, even though its not finished it will appear upcoming summer. I can handle that..

The only unfinished series I have truly been annoyed at is GRRM's ASoIaF.

Never going to finish that.

Brandon Sanderson doesn't bother me. I am excited too read the next in The Way of Kings, but I'll wait.
:)

Brenda ╰☆╮ wrote: "The only unfinished series I have truly been annoyed at is GRRM's ASoIaF.

Never going to finish that.

Brandon Sanderson doesn't bother me. I am excited too read the next in The Way of Kings, but ..."

Same here With Martin. Brandon Sanderson keeps churning up the books at a high rate, so he is one of the few authors whose unfinished series I read without hesitation.

:)

For most series authors I have two questions; (1) How do they do it? So many books, so fast? (2) Does the speed they come out at decrease the quality of the author's writing? I know there are plenty of examples of both.

And there is the occasional series that raises the question: Is this ever going to end? When is enough, enough?

The thing is - if enough people don't buy the first book there may never be a second. (And I'm not talking about huge bestsellers, Jim Butcher doesn't have to worry his contract will be dropped)

Midlist and newbie writers need the sales as encouragement to continue. If I liked the first book enough to be eager for another one, then I'm going to be glad I read it, whether the series continues or not, and however long it takes for the next book.

I have plenty of other things to keep me entertained in between, and when the next book finally appears I'm not going to get all bent out of shape because I have to reread/skim though the first one to refresh my memory - after all I really liked it.

The only series I regret starting at the beginning when the first book was published is Wheel of Time. I got the massive trade paperback when it was first out, got to the end, and found out it was just Book 1. Read Book 2, read Book 3 and...still not the end of the story. After that I just got more and more frustrated and finally gave up around Book 8 - having bought all those in hardcover as soon as they were published.

I finally did a massive reread of the entire thing last year, and it was much easier knowing exactly when all the ridiculous number of storylines were going to get wrapped up - I could keep telling myself the end was in sight as I slogged on through. And yeah, I didn't like the end, no fault of Sanderson. Frustrating, irritating, way too long and self-indulgent, IMO. So, that's my rant.

GRRM lost me too, but not because of the time between books - I just didn't enjoy the last two books at all. I like the TV show though and will watch the heck out of that to the end.

Bruce wrote: "For most series authors I have two questions; (1) How do they do it? So many books, so fast? (2) Does the speed they come out at decrease the quality of the author's writing? I know there are plent..."

I think they already have the outlines done, and are just adding the filler and finishing touches.

Michele wrote: plenty of other things to keep me entertained in between, and when the next book finally appears I'm not going to get all bent out of shape because I have to reread/skim though the first one to refresh my memory - after all I really liked it."

Yup! :-)

Haven't really been tempted by Wheel of Time.

And GRRM.....yeah..it's not the length between. He lost me by the third book when the characters were stalled, or killed, or...missing....and more kept being introduced....

[quote]And there is the occasional series that raises the question: Is this ever going to end? When is enough, enough? [/quote]

Not to derail the thread..

But I wonder that myself.

If Tolkien could tell an epic tale (AND set the standards for fantasy for the next 100 years!) in 3 books, how do some authors need 10+ books to tell a single tale?

Personally speaking, I find Jordan rather wordy. I think a full third of most of his books could be cut down if he was less florid in his prose... (I know many people LIKE that level of detail, but, speaking just for me, it's overkill.)

I could have read a few more books around Middle Earth.
;)

Brenda ╰☆╮ wrote: "I could have read a few more books around Middle Earth.
;)"

The History of the Middle Earth features 13 books according to GR. This should be enough to keep you busy for a while :)

More on the lines of LotR.

Reading the history......kind of bores me.

Michele wrote: "The thing is - if enough people don't buy the first book there may never be a second. (And I'm not talking about huge bestsellers, Jim Butcher doesn't have to worry his contract will be dropped)

M..."

Sad to say it...but I can't care.

Maybe new authors should stop with the series and try standalones if its so important to get those sales.

Honestly, if that is supposed to be a good reason for me to pick up a series book for a NTM author...I say the author & publisher made a bad business decision. I'm never buying a book for "hope" that the author can get book 2 published. In fact, if I think the likelihood of book 2 being published hinges on sales, I'll more than likely skip so I don't get caught up.

Well, realistically in this day and age, while still important, publishing contracts aren't [i]quite[/i] as important as they were 50, 25 or even 10 years ago, due to the advent of things like self-publishing, POD, and Crowd-sourcing.

Having been a fantasy afficianado since birth (or close to), I've read many of the established authors and series, and I"m always on the lookout for new authors that interest me.

Ebooks/Kindle has been hugely helpful in this regard, and I have a folder of "First in Series" books to keep me busy, since many authors often put their first books up for free or minimal pricing, and I'm happy to help them.

I've had remarkable luck with authors actually finsihing their planned series, and I've been introduced to some sterling new writers to boot! *(Check my bookshelves for some of the authors/titles.)

SF and fantasy, romance, mysteries - even some historical fiction, thrillers and horror - are all happily promoting series nowadays - I don't think it's unrealistic for publishers or authors to plan them.

Anyways, if I see a book that sounds interesting and it's first in a planned series I pick it up. No skin off my nose if it doesn't pan out or if I have to wait.

So that's me. If you choose differently, that's cool too.

Michele wrote: "SF and fantasy, romance, mysteries - even some historical fiction, thrillers and horror - are all happily promoting series nowadays - I don't think it's unrealistic for publishers or authors to pla..."


Never said you shouldn't read it.

But "planned series" isn't a good enough reason for me to buy it and I won't focus my shopping around "but if I don't buy it, the rest won't be published."

Never say never :P Actually I'm trying to do the same right now, least as far as ebooks go. One of my goals this year. My physical books though is an uncontrollable problem that began way back, as I started way too many series (Unfinished and finished both) lol. I get way behind on everything. I do wish more standalone books in the genre existed. I happily buy them.

James wrote: "I don't mind waiting on unfinished series as long as there isn't too much time between books (I'm looking at you, GRRM). There are enough books out there to keep me busy while waiting, and I don't..."

That was the problem with WoT for me - by the time book 5 came out, I had to reread the first 4 and so on until book 8 when I finally said forget it. I'm not reading this again until it's finished. Haven't picked it back up yet.

Elise wrote: "... I do wish more standalone books in the genre existed..."

I often wish that too, Elise--and then I read one I really like and find myself thinking "gee, I wish there were more of these!"

Bruce wrote: "I agree with the Shadow-Man, posted above. I avoid any series that is not finished.

I have had too many waiting experiences. I site two of my favorite authors: Jack Vance, "Dying Earth," series. F..."

Just wow.

Helen wrote: "Your English is fine, unlike the auto correct on my kindle. My daughter read the first few Harry Potters and then discovered there weren't any more published so she stopped reading too wait!

GRRM ..."

Thank you Helen, nice to have you here.
Yep, And winter isn't comming, that sort of thing. heh

Mili wrote: "Im also frustratingly waiting on Doors of Stone..Meanwhile Brandon Sanderson has a lot of unfinished series which I'm eager to start. But I don't want to have too many open series in the wait...I s..."

Hey Mili, i'm a huge HUGE fan of the Kingkiller Chronicles, and extremely freaked out by the waiting!
So many things to answer in one volume. And unlike Brandon Sanderson, Pat Rothfuss don't update anything about the progress, or really anything about the book. We only know the title, that will be shorter than WMF and won't be published this year.
Am i being an asshole for expecting a little more?

Brenda ╰☆╮ wrote: "The only unfinished series I have truly been annoyed at is GRRM's ASoIaF.

Never going to finish that.

Brandon Sanderson doesn't bother me. I am excited too read the next in The Way of Kings, but ..."

Hi Brenda!
Never going to end ASOIAF because you totally give up or because Martin won't finish it ?

EDIT: Sorry, didn't see your answer below and totally agree with you, I'm not going to finish it either. Are you watching the show?

Michele wrote: "The thing is - if enough people don't buy the first book there may never be a second. (And I'm not talking about huge bestsellers, Jim Butcher doesn't have to worry his contract will be dropped)

M..."

Oh, i liked the first and the secon volumes of WoT and this is kind of frustrating to hear.
Any thoughts about Malazan ?

Shadowdenizen wrote: "Well, realistically in this day and age, while still important, publishing contracts aren't [i]quite[/i] as important as they were 50, 25 or even 10 years ago, due to the advent of things like self..."

Checking!

very interesting!

I loved, loved, loved Malazan. That being said, different people have different reasons for reading, and as Mrs J would say, Your Mileage May Vary!

I got very annoyed with GRRM too. I just really took my time getting around to reading the last one.
Neil Gaiman wrote a semi-famous article called "George Martin is not your bitch!" criticizing fans that were getting so POd about his books taking so long. (When I am not being so lazy I will find it and link it)

Although I agree in part, I also feel that the author/fan bond also requires a little show of good faith!

I also read that article (though I don't have the link handy.)

And I think it's slightly disingenous of Neil, given that his new "Sandman" mini-series is coming out in no particular pattern that I can see, and it's only 6 issues!

I think the Author/Fan contract cannot be overstated; I'm betting that GRRM has lost some fans due to the lengthy wait between books. (I'm sure that it's not enough to make a dent in sales or OVERALL readership, of course, but I'm betting they're there.)

For myself, that's why I, generally speaking, won't start reading a series until it's completed, or at least NEAR completed.)

Maggie wrote: "very interesting!

I loved, loved, loved Malazan. That being said, different people have different reasons for reading, and as Mrs J would say, Your Mileage May Vary!

I got very annoyed with GRRM..."


;)

I read that article, too. (GRRM/Gaiman)

Here's the thing though: authors/readers have a very soft "social contract" - they write things to entertain us, we give them money for said entertainment. The longer the series (or the more books the author writes) the more money we're willing to give them. When they write a HUGE series, we're investing a huge amount of time (and sometimes money) with the expectation that we will eventually get the finished product.

What's happening with GRRM is that - in a way - he's breaking the contract. By taking such long periods of time out to do other projects, he's giving his readers (the ones who pushed his name out there) the impression that they are no longer important in the contract. As this contract is super soft and unenforceable, when the contract is broken the reader can only get mad. And break their half of the contract by not purchasing new books by said author.

So, GRRM isn't my bitch but he shouldn't bitch if he doesn't get as much money out of the contract as was previously expected.

(of course, GRRM is rolling in cable dough and couldn't give a shit about book money or his readers so for him it makes no difference)

Hum, 10 huge volumes worth my time then?

Yeah, i read that article.

http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2009/05...

Thanks for that link!
I hadn't read that article in a while.

While he has some valid point...

[quote]And Gareth, in the future, when you see other people complaining that George R.R. Martin has been spotted doing something other than writing the book they are waiting for, explain to them, more politely than I did the first time, the simple and unanswerable truth: George R. R. Martin is not working for you.[/quote]

Which is not entirely true, IMO.

Yes, writers write for themselves; they write what inspires them, drives them or perhaps even agitates them. WHich is great, until you put it out to the general audience and ask for their time, money and committment.

By publishing a book through a publishing company for profit, and by people sinking time and money into your series over ANY OTHER series they COULD have chosen, you [i]are[/i] committing to the audience, to write your books in a relatively timely manner.

(While emergencies can and do crop up, of course, and this "Social Contact" is not binding, I think it's a rule of thumb many writers need to think about.)

:)

Can't say I have ever been a fan of GRRM, so he really didnt lose me. I did enjoy the first book...the story took off in my mind.
I only became interested, originally, because of the show, which I haven't watched either.

I love Neil Gaiman, but disagree.
Because we, ultimately, are paying him, right? His money comes from us.
Could there be any balance between: You do what inspires you and what you are paid for? heh
Don't we all seek this balance?
For discussion purpose, i don't necessarily think like that.

Everybody wants to do what they love for a living. But I'm not sure what percentage of people actually achieve that goal.

But, unless you're indpendently wealthy, no matter what you do, you generally will have to make concesssions to get the job accomplished.

And, while writing is a creative endeavor, it's also, generally a "For-Profit" endeavor.

It's been publicly acknowledged that HBO has the general gist of how the series is going to end, right? That HAD to be a major concession on Martins part, as I'm sure he wouldnt' want the ending to be divulged YEARS before the final book is published.

It may take the show a hundred years to finish up.
;)

It's not like you are paying an author monthly to keep writing, you are buying a product when they have one to sell, they are more a merchant than an employee. As to the wait between volumes, never really bothered me, but I can wait, lots of good stuff to read while I do. At any rate, while I want to know how everything ends, I am also having fun along the way. If I weren't why would the ending matter. Let's be honest, if winter never comes, if we never open the doors of stone, does that somehow make the books we got less good? Either they were good or they were not, it all doesn't hang on what happens next.
I'll admit I am disappointed too when a series just stops, because I loved the books we already had, I wanted more, but I still love those books and still speculate on the ending. As to waiting, my attitude is simple, I'd rather it be good than quick. True a few authors can manage both, but most have to pick one.

I think it depends on the wait. If the pleasure is only in the journey and never in the destination...how long am I supposed to sustain (artificial) excitement for the journey? Especially when the journey never really gets going.

IDK, maybe a lot of yall are younger than me but I've had some waits. GRRM has nothing on King yet.

I started reading The Dark Tower series long, long ago. So long ago the series was actually called "Wizard and Glass." I started reading it BEFORE his 10 year hiatus. I stopped caring during those 10 years. I stopped wondering what was going to happen next (well, I had a gander because I'm familiar with his inspiration poem). I eventually bought the rest of the books - second hand - because I wanted to own them. But I've never felt interested enough to read the the last few books in the series.

And let's not talk about Jean M. Auel. I finished reading the first 3 books in that series when I was in High School! There are so many people who waited and waited and waited for the series to be complete. And they were mostly disappointed. Considering the time between releases...I could never be bothered with those, either.

Did I enjoy my Dark Tower and Clan reads? Yes. But I managed to avoid bitterness by moving on away from those authors. Other people I know who did not move on have a feeling of anger and bitterness tainting those reads.

MrsJoseph wrote: "I think it depends on the wait. If the pleasure is only in the journey and never in the destination...how long am I supposed to sustain (artificial) excitement for the journey? Especially when th..."



I feel the same about Jean M. Auel. Probably read it about the same time you, MrsJ. I was in high school, also.
:)
It was only recently that I discovered that she had continued on after first three.
I doubt I'll read further. Mostly because, my tastes have changed.

Brenda ╰☆╮ wrote: "I feel the same about Jean M. Auel. Probably read it about the same time you, MrsJ. I was in high school, also.
:)
It was only recently that I discovered that she had continued on after first three.
I doubt I'll read further. Mostly because, my tastes have changed. "

I remember being astounded that the series was still going on, lol!

I was all "Wait! It wasn't over??!"

My tastes have changed, too. Plus I can't summon any excitement about the series - nothing like the way i felt when I was originally reading them.

I started reading the Kushiel's Dart series when book 1 was in MMPB. I *think* the entire first trilogy was complete. But the way Carey structures her books gives me enough that I was willing to wait for the rest. I've read the first two trilogies (had to wait for all the books in the second trilogy). I never picked up the third trilogy. She went too far into the future - all my characters were long dead. :(

I thought the Kushiels Dart trilogy was just so beautifully written. That feeling!

That's a contributing factor, too.
Personal tastes change, and so does the cultural zeitgeist.

Back to good ol' GRRM...
How long can this Pop-Culture Phenomeon he created stay viable?

Once the TV show ends (HBO has been pretty adamant about "7 Seasons and Done" all along), if the books aren't done, I wonder how what kind of readership drop GoT will get?

MrsJoseph wrote: "Brenda ╰☆╮ wrote: "I feel the same about Jean M. Auel. Probably read it about the same time you, MrsJ. I was in high school, also.
:)
It was only recently that I discovered that she had continue..."


I started Kushiel's Dart...a while ago. I got into a rut with reading....and never finished.
:(

Shadowdenizen wrote: "That's a contributing factor, too.
Personal tastes change, and so does the cultural zeitgeist.

Back to good ol' GRRM...
How long can this Pop-Culture Phenomeon he created stay viable?

Once the TV..."

As a reader, I was very familiar with GRRM/ASoIaF long before the show came out. Since most of my friends/family are not readers, I watched the ones who watch the show "fall in love." A lot of them went on to read the books - others (like hubby) decided not to bother with the books. (Though I'd already warned him the GRRM writes the never-ending doorstopper).

Some of the show watchers will gobble up the books post-show (looking for a hit).

Some of the readers will watch the show (looking for a hit). Depending on the power of the show, I give it a 50/50 chance GRRMs GoT/ASoIaF will sorta die out after the show ends (and the marathons are over).

Brenda ╰☆╮ wrote: "I started Kushiel's Dart...a while ago. I got into a rut with reading....and never finished.
:( "

I know the feeling. Plus it's not for everybody. It takes you back to some of the old(er) epic fantasy where you have to plod along a bit to get your payoff.

Xetws wrote: "Mili wrote: "Im also frustratingly waiting on Doors of Stone..Meanwhile Brandon Sanderson has a lot of unfinished series which I'm eager to start. But I don't want to have too many open series in t..."

Not an asshole at all! Hes past his deadline! I've seen him react aggravated at people asking him for more news and when its going to be published. Atleast give us hope with sneak peaks and progress info! Keep your customers a bit more satisfied! People will stop bothering. Well I wont, when its out im gonna eat it whole, but damnnn come on~

And like Evgeny also said Brandon keeps everyone posted and has a fast pace.

I can't think of an author's work as a contract unless an author announces at the beginning the rules for the contract - there will be umpteen books, they will come out once a year like clockwork, they will each be 800 pages long, they will all be equally good, etc. And if I pay upfront at the beginning for the entire series - then yes, I expect what I paid for.

But that would cost me, oh $350, for Wheel of Time all in hardcover (14 books @ $25 each - I just guesstimated that, but I know I paid about that much each for the first 8). And I ain't paying that upfront to any author - no matter how great.

An author writes one book, I buy it - transaction finished. They write another and I buy it because I liked the other one - transaction finished. I get hooked and eagerly await the next book and it doesn't show up at the expected time...bummer - no transaction yet. I'll have to buy something else.

Because no matter how much I love a series, I'm not going into withdrawal or need a support group to survive until my next fix. I'll be okay and that sounds unhealthy.

That's how I look at it.

Don't bother to read the rest of the Auel books, BTW. They go quickly downhill after the third one and the last book was just terrible.

Malazan, I tried the first one and didn't get very far - twice. So I don't think that series is for me.

Yes....agree on the .......enjoy one book at a time....continue or not.....there is always more to read. Thanks for the heads up, Michele. (Clan books)