The Obscure Reading Group discussion
The Stone Raft
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The Stone Raft Week One Discussion
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Hi Everyone! Let's start our journey together on The Stone Raft.Just a note - I read on a Kindle version of 294 pages. Hopefully your copies are close to that length, but if I reference a scene on a page you can't find, lmk and I'll try to better locate it for you. Same for anyone else, okay?
One of the first things that strikes me about the story is Saramago's constant reference to geography, and I would like to keep it as a theme or topic throughout our discussion. Share what you will about this aspect of the story.
The build-up to understand what is happening to the Iberian peninsula happens while we are being introduced to all the main characters, whether we realize it or not. How do you feel about the magical realism of the break or about the weirdnesses (we could call them "superpowers" maybe?) the individual characters each experience? Do you find them metaphorical or meaningful in any way?
The final break of Iberia from the continent happens on page 26, very early in the story. What do you think Saramago means by posting this as the action driver for the story? Amusing, ironic, metaphoric, something else?
We can have discussions about each of the characters and their superpowers.
Looking forward to this discussion!
It took me time to get into this book, as it my first by Saramago. I found the beginning weird and detached but now I am enjoying it. I think 'the moment ' was powerful not the persons and till now I have gathered that the theme is ecological imbalance because there were starlings too.
Yes, Nidhi, I too found the characters in the midst of the split were ancillary to the action. And as I continued to read, I checked Wiki and was struck by the fact that around 1994, the year In which I believe his novel Blindness was published, Sarajevo had been mightily miffed by the retraction of a prestigious literary prize which had been awarded to him, and shortly thereafter left Portugal forever.So that made me think that maybe the separation of the Iberian peninsula was perhaps a bitterly ironic symbol of his own separation!
Fergus, Quondam Happy Face wrote: "...miffed by the retraction of a prestigious literary prize"Fergus, what prize was retracted and for which book? I never heard anything like that about the author.
Nidhi wrote: "...l now I have gathered that the theme is ecological imbalance because there were starlings too"Nidhi, I hadn't thought of the starlings as a signal of ecological imbalance, that's interesting. There are different reference on what Saramago was thinking, for instance, they are "a winged festivity," they form "a huge dark cloud, like a prelude to a storm" so they are sort of ominous, which is a bit reinforced when he mentions the Hitchcock classic. But then on the more lighthearted side, there's a discussion that starlings are "used for frivolous and giddy people who don't reflect on their actions." Did you find any references for a more somber meaning re ecological imbalance?
But what do you think the starlings actually mean as Jose Anaico's "superpower"?
One of the things regarding the heavy use of geography is that even though the book is fantastical and the premise is supernatural, the author has tried to "anchor" the story in reality. I've been using my atlas and Google Maps, and even the tiniest towns mentioned are real places, as are neighborhoods and streets in Lisbon. I actually love learning the provinces and towns and rivers as we move around the peninsula!
I enjoyed the magical realism that is found in other Latin American literature, and was amused that at this point in the book, there is not a lot that has happened with all of the digressions and sidebars. I think if you had to write the plot so far it might take one page. I think the characters are amusing and it's interesting how they all came together and aligned forces so readily. The plot to be turning in the book as far as whether and how they will survive, and if so, if they will do so as a continued unified force. The dog is also a standalone character - I wonder if it is supposed to symbolize something?
Dianne wrote: "...I think if you had to write the plot so far it might take one page. I think the characters are amusing and it's interesting how they all came together and aligned forces so readily. The plot to be turning in the book as far as whether and how they will survive, and if so, if they will do so as a continued unified force. The dog is also a standalone character - I wonder if it is supposed to symbolize something?"If we think about it as a "road story," it helps think of the journey as part of the plot - where they go, what they see, what they talk about, rather than lots of action. As some travelers they meet on the road tell them -- "We're on our way to see the world" (though their world is much smaller now, seeing it is more feasible).
What's happening on the radio and the incompetent shenanigans of the government provide some comic relief. Even so called experts, such as the North American scientist who declared "the peninsula cannot possibly be moving, got the muttered Galilean response from an Italian expert Eppur si muove.
Regarding the Dog, who has various names but internally recalls being "Ardent," I'm sure he's significant. The first to recognize the crack in Cerbere (the eastern side of the Pyrenees, then traveling to the western side where he met up with Maria Guavaira and took her Blue Thread, he sets the thread like Ariadne that will lead us through the labyrinth. It's through his agency that once the three men and Joana Carda meet, they travel to Galicia and Maria G to find their fates.
Cherisa, thanks for your comment! I'll try to pin down that reference later this afternoon, but just to say it smacked to me of a blind spot in the author's rear view mirror which resulted in a fit of childish petulance.
So my admiration for his novel Blindness - a masterpiece - became tarnished. I'd just love to discover I was wrong!
This novel was written in 1986, the same year Spain & Portugal joined the EU. I just discovered that Saramago was making a clever, satirical commentary regarding the European Union. I'm going to guess that the opinions were divided. The Iberian Peninsula breaking off from the rest of Europe is symbolic of this controversy. There's also another controversy that involves Gibraltar. Apparently, the issue of Gibraltar has been a sore point for many years between Spain and the UK.
This does make sense Cindy. And it will make further reading easier, thanks.
Oh my goodness thank you so much, Cindy that really helps a great deal!
I just got to the dog lying in the middle of the road. There some beautiful sentences in this novel that for me bring about nostalgia of childhood. Shared experiences of throwing a stone in to the sea or drawing lines in the dirt with sticks. Of watching migrating birds overhead. Lovely writing.
Cindy wrote: "This novel was written in 1986, the same year Spain & Portugal joined the EU. I just discovered that Saramago was making a clever, satirical commentary regarding the European Union. I'm going to gu..."Great point, Cindy. So then the "millions" of Europeans chanting "We are Iberians too" is particularly hilarious.
Wow, Cindy's comment woke me up! I'm so happy that darkly black trait that I imagined here was a mere jumping to conclusions on my part. The dates say it all! Now I can read happily again.
Sherri wrote: "I just got to the dog lying in the middle of the road. There some beautiful sentences in this novel that for me bring about nostalgia of childhood. Shared experiences of throwing a stone in to the ..."Sherri, I agree, Saramago and his translator are hella-good writers! The imagery is so clear and tangible.
I'll revisit my review of Blindness, too, in case it was ruined by the same mistake!
Regarding Spain and Portugal joining the EU and becoming part of a community of nations, our little band of travelers were all rather lonely people, Joaquim (stone thrower and office worker), Jose Anaico (starling magnet and teacher), and Pedro (human seismologist and pharmacist). We do not know if they were married before but at the time of the story they are single men able to just get up and leave without word to anyone. Also, Joana Carda had just left her marriage, and with no children she also has no ties that bind, just a cousin who envies that she can walk away so simply. If Spain and Portugal leaving Europe to drift out into the Atlantic was a metaphor or commentary on the two nations actually joining the EU, it's a little twisted. The one thing is that our little band of travelers find each other and hook up. We will see it even more in the second half (not giving anything away!), but when their peninsula leaves Europe, they find community.
Fergus, Quondam Happy Face wrote: "I'll revisit my review of Blindness, too, in case it was ruined by the same mistake!"Fergus, Blindness floored me, and terrified me. When people ask for scary book recs, that's the title I give because of how quickly and shockingly society fell apart. Saramago didn't make it seem implausible how fragile civil society is.
Yes, I too was struck dumb (but not blind, thankfully, because the words that riveted me had the ring of truth) by Blindness! It went a long way into my reading of Stone Raft, so I was blinded at first to its playfulness.
Cherisa wrote: "Regarding Spain and Portugal joining the EU and becoming part of a community of nations, our little band of travelers were all rather lonely people, Joaquim (stone thrower and office worker), Jose ..."Cherisa, I don't think I'm as far into my reading as many are. I haven't gotten to some of the places you've mentioned. I was thinking that the reactions to the peninsula breaking off from Europe was a metaphor for people's fears. If they join the EU, what will happen to their fortunes vs. if they are the only countries that don't join the EU, what will happen then? While this may have started out as a satire about the controversy, I think it turned into so much more. He covers governmental bureaucracy, politics, scientists, human nature, community vs. individuals, the epic journey, sly references to Don Quixote, and the list goes on. I thought I even saw a reference to Fernando Pessoa.
Regarding the Don Quixote reference: The Deux Chevaux (roughly translated as two horses) reminds me of Rocinante. Temperamental. It may or may not get you to where you are going. Like Rocinante, Deux Chevaux is its own character.
I'm not sure what to think about the starlings. I do know that Eurodollars are quite colorful like starlings, the latter when viewed in the right light. Unlike Hitchcock's, "The Birds," the starlings are the injured party when they are shot at a checkpoint. They don't seem to be aggressive toward anyone other than frightening/astonishing people by their sheer numbers. Maybe I'll have formed another opinion when I get further along in my reading. I'm at page 90 so I'm not 1/2 done yet.
Personally, I'm really enjoying this novel, especially Saramago's subtle humor.
Yes, me too, now that I've got my 'sea legs' back - whoops - couldn't help it!
Cindy wrote: "Regarding the Don Quixote reference: The Deux Chevaux (roughly translated as two horses) reminds me of Rocinante. Temperamental. It may or may not get you to where you are going. Like Rocinante, Deux Chevaux is its own character...."I love that you pulled out Cervantes and the old car, Cindy! Absolutely, Deux Chevaux rates as worthy of consideration as a character and part of the plot. Let's start with the fact that it's a French Citroen. Meta tells me it was produced from 1948-1990 and was "known for its compliant ride... and ability to transport heavy loads across difficult terrain." But then get this - it became an automotive icon and early models are highly sought after. "Rugged, useful, affordable."
The road trip wouldn't have been likely or possible without it, and Joaquim is the only one who owns a car, and therefor starts the whole trip when he first goes off in search of Pedro. It doesn't make him the Don, but in a sense his action "drives" the story, haha.
I love Joaquim! So like me - being afraid of stepping outta line with the law - that he's totally spooked when the authorities issue an alert about him.
Oh, yes - but way behind you, I guess. Saramago simply always seems like such terra incognita for me, an unsophisticate! I have a hard time relaxing into Stone Raft.
I’m reading too, but just began. It’s worked out well starting so late as I have insights from you that I never would have figured out on my own. I’ll catch up this weekend.
I will start Week 2 discussion on another thread so you can join when you are ready.
Hi all,Just finished this and I’ve got to say I thoroughly enjoyed every bit of it. I am glad this group introduced me to the Stone Raft and Saramago.
The story telling is so rich, with subtle humor sprinkled throughout. The author used the tools of allusion and suggestion effectively; with a “wink and a nod.”
Everything; the migration and rotation of the “peninsula, the dog, the horses, the donkey, the human characters, and the geological issues, the romances, the simultaneous impregnation of all the women of Spain and Portugal, were all just unbelievable enough to keep one invested and interested. The writing style with atypical punctuation was a challenge at first, but allowed ( forced?) me to focus on what was being described or stated. All of this added to the richness of the book.
We were exposed to a lot of Iberian geography, so I reviewed maps of Spain and Portugal; a tour of the peninsula, which seemed to be quite purposeful by Saramago, he wanted us to know about his homeland.
There were, of course, musings about the human experience international politics and of course, a good deal of philosophizing.
Reading the group’s comments and thinking about this book I know there are a lot of subtleties and references which I likely under appreciate. However, I know enough to remain completely befuddled as to the process involved for someone (Saramago) to fold all these ingredients together and create what ends up being a wonderful piece of literature
Love that wink and a nod bit! Saramago seems to revel in his contrariety. He is so refreshing for slow, neurodivergent folks like myself who have made a life out of what Derrida calls our "differance!"
Craig wrote: "Hi all,Just finished this and I’ve got to say I thoroughly enjoyed every bit of it. I am glad this group introduced me to the Stone Raft and Saramago.
The story telling is so rich, with subtle h..."
Craig this is a wonderful review. Thank you.
For Week 1, starting Saturday, June 1st, we will discuss through page 161, or where the group arrives at Maria Guavaira's home in Galicia. This feels like a natural break and transition of action in the story.
Week 2, starting June 9th, will be a little shorter at 133 pages.
Thank you and looking forward to getting to talk with you all about this book!