Pulp Fiction discussion

Nathanael West, born Nathan Weinstein in 1903, was an American writer and screenwriter. He lived with his family in an upper middle class household in a Jewish neighborhood on the Upper West Side
West displayed little ambition in academics, dropping out of high school and only gaining admission into Tufts College by forging his high school transcript. After being expelled from Tufts, West got into Brown University by appropriating the transcript of a fellow Tufts student, his cousin, Nathan Weinstein. Although West did little schoolwork at Brown, he read extensively. He spent three months in Paris and it was at this point that he changed his name to Nathanael West. His family, who had supported him thus far, ran into financial difficulties in the late 1920s. West returned home and worked sporadically in construction for his father, eventually finding a job as the night manager of the Hotel Kenmore Hall on East 23rd Street in Manhattan. One of West's experiences at the hotel inspired the incident between Romola Martin and Homer Simpson that appeared in his novel The Day of the Locust. Although West had been working on his writing since college, it was not until his quiet night job at the hotel that he found the time to put his novel together. It was then that he wrote what became Miss Lonelyhearts.

In 1933, West got a job as a contract scriptwriter for Columbia Pictures and moved to Hollywood. He published a A Cool Million in 1934. None of West's three works sold well, earning him less than $800, so he spent the mid-1930s in financial difficulty, sporadically collaborating on screenplays. Many of the films he worked on were B movies, such as Five Came Back (1939). It was at this time that he wrote The Day of the Locust. He took many of the settings and minor characters of his novel directly from his experience living in a hotel on Hollywood Boulevard.

In December of 1940, West and his wife Eileen McKenney were returning to Los Angeles from a hunting trip in Mexico. West ran a stop sign in El Centro, California, resulting in a collision in which he and McKenney were killed.

Although West was not widely known during his life, his reputation grew after his death, especially with the publication of his collected novels by New Directions in 1957. Miss Lonelyhearts is widely regarded as West's masterpiece. The Day of the Locust was made into a film which came out in 1975. The obscene, garish landscapes of The Day of the Locust gained force in light of the fact that the remainder of the country was living in drab poverty at the time. West saw the American dream as having been betrayed, both spiritually and materially, and in his writing he presented "a sweeping rejection of political causes, religious faith, artistic redemption and romantic love".


For more info, here's an excellent article from The Atlantic - https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/...

Aww thanks for posting this Melki. I completely forgot to put the thread up yesterday. Yay team!

As for the read, it is excellent as promised. I started it about a week ago and it's not long or difficult to read so I should finish early next week. As for my thoughts so far, I will say that I'm enjoying West's critical look at the type of people drawn like moths to the bright neon flame of Hollywood.

This is the second month in a row that our group read is not only a good pulp fiction read but also has significant literary merit! Good job by those who voted.

Thanks for the info. I read somewhere that West and F. Scott Fitzgerald were friends. It's weird because this reminds me a little of a very dark Fitzgerald novel or something. And it's weird how West died one day after Fitzgerald died. Very young and tragic.

I'm about a third of the way in and it's a strange book so far. Not sure what to make of it truth be told. Agree RJ about exposing Hollywood for its facade. It seems to be the major theme so far.

RJ - Slayer of Trolls wrote: "Aww thanks for posting this Melki. I completely forgot to put the thread up yesterday. Yay team!"

You're very welcome, RJ. I don't mind doing that part at all - it's coming up with books for the polls that's my problem.

Apparently I read this one back in 1984, though I don't remember it at all. I'll try for a reread this month if time permits.

I got a laugh when I read this:

"It was on this trip that Faye acquired a new suitor by the name of Homer Simpson."

Franky wrote: "I got a laugh when I read this:

"It was on this trip that Faye acquired a new suitor by the name of Homer Simpson.""

I'm gonna have a hard time picturing someone who isn't yellow.

Melki wrote: "Franky wrote: "I got a laugh when I read this:

"It was on this trip that Faye acquired a new suitor by the name of Homer Simpson.""

I'm gonna have a hard time picturing someone who isn't yellow."

I'm assuming that some of the people who are reading this book now know the history of that. According to Matt Groening, "I took that name from a minor character in the novel The Day of the Locust... Since Homer was my father's name, and I thought Simpson was a funny name in that it had the word “simp” in it, which is short for “simpleton”—I just went with it."

I wouldn't have called Homer Simpson in The Day of the Locust a minor charactor, though.

David wrote: : "I'm assuming that some of the people who are reading this book now know the history of that... "

I knew Groening named the Simpson patriarch after his father, but I never heard the rest of the tale. Very interesting. Thanks for the info.

Franky wrote: "Thanks for the info. I read somewhere that West and F. Scott Fitzgerald were friends. It's weird because this reminds me a little of a very dark Fitzgerald novel or something. And it's weird how We..."

That is very interesting to me also. And I wouldn't have thought of it, but now that you mention it I can absolutely see similarities between West and FSF.

Franky wrote: "I got a laugh when I read this:

"It was on this trip that Faye acquired a new suitor by the name of Homer Simpson.""

Yeah, I laughed out loud too, right after saying "no way!" I ran right to my tablet and found the information that David posted above. And I agree, David, Homer is by no means a minor character.

I never heard that story about Groening and the character. Thanks David.

Wow, these characters are so bleak and depressing and shallow and pathetic. I suppose that's the point, but this is really a hard book to like right now. I see what the author is trying to accomplish, though.

Franky wrote: "I never heard that story about Groening and the character. Thanks David.

Wow, these characters are so bleak and depressing and shallow and pathetic. I suppose that's the point, but this is really..."

"...bleak and depressing and shallow and pathetic" is a great description for these characters, except, possibly, Tod Hackett. The book kind of reminds me of Tobacco Road in that regard.

I'm about halfway through and am really enjoying the writing. I love the description of Homer Simpson's house, where the exterior is a reproduction of an Irish cottage and the interior rooms are reproductions of Spanish and New England styles. The bedroom dresser is "painted to look like unpainted pine." So the place is entirely a fake, like the rest of Hollywood, I guess.

I am curious if the character of Claude Estee is supposed to represent William Faulkner, who spent time in the 1930s in Hollywood as a screenwriter.

David wrote: "Franky wrote: "I never heard that story about Groening and the character. Thanks David.

Wow, these characters are so bleak and depressing and shallow and pathetic. I suppose that's the point, but..."

I think the writing itself has definitely a literary quality and that's such a good point.

Interesting point about the character Claude. I didn't think of that.

There is one scene where it's Simpson he is desperately going through trying to find Faye for a scene she is supposedly doing and for a film and he goes through all these fake battle scenes in studios and what not with the actors and stunt actors, etc. The way West describes it almost makes it farcical or satiric, almost comical, as they actors "play" their roles. Anyhow, that chapter/ scene reminded me of what you said about fake Hollywood.

I enjoyed this quote which seems fitting for our group:

“She wasn’t hard-boiled. It was just that she put love on a special plane, where a man without money or looks couldn’t move.”

I finished the book yesterday but I'll save my thoughts for a few days. I did like it a lot and gave it 4 stars.

RJ - Slayer of Trolls wrote: "I enjoyed this quote which seems fitting for our group:

“She wasn’t hard-boiled. It was just that she put love on a special plane, where a man without money or looks couldn’t move.”

I finished t..."


I finished this book yesterday as well, thought it was excellent and gave it 5 stars. My only quibble was with the character of Adore Loomis, who I thought was not entirely believable, but its only a slight quibble.

I was hoping to read more of the excess, ala The Satyricon, but was treated instead to the dismal stories of Hollywood hangers-on. Not a bad read - I finished it, so that says something - but I didn't find it to be the masterpiece others did. I don't mind depressing stories or characters - I like Thomas Hardy & Cormac McCarthy - but this one didn't do it for me.

I have to say, Girard, the novel wasn't what I expected either, although I did enjoy it. I think it's the kind of novel I could extract more from if I were to re-read it.

To me, West was critiquing not just Hollywood but the myth of the American Dream. The idea of working hard all your life in order to be rewarded with a glamorous retirement of leisure must have felt particularly empty after a decade of The Great Depression. Yet, I think in this day of inflation and shrinking middle class the message can be just as powerful.

What does everyone else think? How does the novel critique the idea of the American Dream? Do you think West’s portrayal of Hollywood reflects a broader commentary on American society?

RJ - Slayer of Trolls wrote: "How does the novel critique the idea of the American Dream? Do you think West’s portrayal of Hollywood reflects a broader commentary on American society?."

I would say that the novel critiques the idea of American Dream (although I prefer your phrase of "the myth of the American Dream") by showing each character's futile single-minded pursuit of success, which ultimately leads to alienation and destruction at the novels end. Although I wouldn't say that I liked any of the characters in the book, I did sympathize with many of them, particularly Harry Greener and Homer Simpson, both of whom suffer continual failures in their lives and, ultimately, become desperate and disallusioned.

Also, I would agree that the novel's commentary is broader than simply Hollywood. Hollywood makes a nice metaphor for the American Dream, but I felt that West's attack was more on the rampant consumerism that drives the American Dream.

I agree largely with David's assessment, although when reading I felt it was more of a scathing critique of exclusively Hollywood and its facade. I like the word "disillusion" to describe the characters, and it reminds me somewhat of the "lost generation" after the war.

At the end of the day, I felt like the characters and some of the scenes were a bit of a train wreck and largely unlikeable so it was hard to like this novel, but I understand what West is trying to convey.

I agree RJ, that this is a book that needs a deeper dive to dig in, as there is quite a bit under the surface to unpack.

Reading your review, Franky, I was thinking about the darkness of the narrative and it reminded me of this classic exchange in the film Rozencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead:

Rosencrantz : Dark, isn't it?
Guildenstern : Not for night.
Rosencrantz : No, not for night.
Guildenstern : It's dark for day.
Rosencrantz : Oh, yes, it's dark for day.

Besides making me laugh out loud when I saw that in the theater about 30 years ago, that bit reminds me a little of this book - it is quite dark, but considering how disillusioned West seemed to be it actually was somewhat light at times. I did find myself laughing more than once (although I'll be damned if I can remember exactly when or why now), which I would expect from a good satire.

A few months ago I read The Little Sister by Raymond Chandler, which also expressed an author's bitterness at the Hollywood system (and was published just a few years after The Day of the Locust). It's hard not to compare them, having read them in such close proximity to each other. Chandler's book also has a world-weariness to it, but he seemed to aim higher up the social ladder. His primary targets seemed to be those who feed and also are fed by the socio-economic Hollywood machine; the studio bosses, actors, agents, and other enablers, whereas West seemed to focus on the havoc wreaked on those who inhabit the periphery of the Hollywood dream, cursed always to be on the outside looking in.

Any other books (or films) that you found similar to The Day of the Locust?

RJ - Slayer of Trolls wrote: "Reading your review, Franky, I was thinking about the darkness of the narrative and it reminded me of this classic exchange in the film Rozencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead:

Rosencrantz : Dark, i..."

That's funny you mention that scene with R and G. I read the play last year.

The characters are in a different setting entirely, but their "unlikability" and aimlessness reminded me a tad of the characters in Hemingway's The Sun Also Rises.

Have you watched the film version of The Day of the Locust, the one from the 70s?

RJ - Slayer of Trolls wrote: "Any other books (or films) that you found similar to The Day of the Locust?"

A few books jumped out to me as similar thematically, although not all of them involve Hollywood:

Midnight Cowboy by James Leo Herlihy;
Fat City by Leonard Gardner;
They Shoot Horses, Don't They? by Horace McCoy;
Tobacco Road by Erskine Caldwell;
Continental Drift by Russell Banks
and, of course
The Great Gatsby by F. Scott Fitzgerald

The first three were made into excellent films, which probably could never be made today.

David wrote: "RJ - Slayer of Trolls wrote: "Any other books (or films) that you found similar to The Day of the Locust?"

A few books jumped out to me as similar thematically, although not all of them involve Ho..."

Yes, I can totally see those. I was thinking about some of the minor characters in The Great Gatsby as well at some point while reading. They Shoot Horses, Don't They has such similar themes as well.

I like "Locust" for different reasons. I agree with you guys about the way West portrays the grotesque - almost every character is, in some way. The title might be about Biblical imagery that illustrates flaws of Hollywood's "plague" of locusts (locusts came over Egypt in one of God's punishments).

Hollywood consumed (consumes) people throughout it's inception in some ways.

In regard to "any other films, books that you found similar to The Day of the Locust"?, in a much more beautiful, but sad comparison, Fante's "Ask the Dust" - which I didn't read all of - also creates a vision of The American Dream that's unattainable - even destructive, in some ways. I need to go back and finish that one.

Philip wrote: "Fante's "Ask the Dust" - which I didn't read all of - also creates a vision of The American Dream that's unattainable"

I haven't read Ask the Dust, but have heard it is a great book, and will add that to my to-read list. Since it is #3 in a series I will probably read #s 1-2 first before getting to it.

Philip wrote: "I like "Locust" for different reasons. I agree with you guys about the way West portrays the grotesque - almost every character is, in some way. The title might be about Biblical imagery that illus..."

I like your take and analysis on the title and Biblical symbolism there. I can totally see that in this book. And term grotesque is such a perfect way to describe the characters and situations in this novel. It reminded me a tad of the southern grotesque in southern novels without being southern, of course. Something in the vain of Carson McCullers or Eudora Welty or Flannery O'Connor, except in Hollywood.

I finished the book on the beach, which might have some bearing on my impressions - a good book but a step back in terms of true noir after the excellent Hard Rain Falling I've read before it.
The satire of Hollywood is spot on, the style is subtle and a bit artsy, the vibe of fake people, fake setting, fake emotions is well captured, but it comes short of the sense of doom, of existential despair I've got from the other story.
Still glad I've read it.

I'll finally be able to get to this when my wife and I have a little getaway at the end of next week. A lively discussion, very nice!

Here's a link to my "review" (a grand word for just a few of my thoughts):

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

I started reading Lillian Ross's Picture, her account of the making of John Huston's Red Badge of Courage, thinking it would be an interesting complement to Locust. The characters in Picture are the insiders, not the fringe hangers-on, but one gets a sense of some of the hollowness of the film industry. Apparently the powers-that-be weren't happy with Huston's finished film, and demanded changes that kept it from being a masterpiece. Sadly, there is no director's cut. The wikipedia article is worth reading for a little more detail. The Ross book, put together from her New Yorker articles, bears the sins of the New Yorker - too much detail that doesn't add to the story. One gets the feeling that they paid by the word, as many magazines did (and may still do). Still, Picture is worth reading with some judicious skimming.

Fun fact: The Great Gatsby was originally titled Trimalchio. When I first started Day of the Locust, with its submerged rubber horse, I thought I was in for a Satyricon-like tale of excess. F Scott and Nathanael West were friends, and died within a day of each other. Looks like I'll be putting The Last Tycoon on my list for another look at Hollywoodland.

Girard wrote: "Here's a link to my "review" (a grand word for just a few of my thoughts):

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

I started reading Lillian Ross's Picture, her account ..."

Perfect timing, Girard. I’m reading the Crane now (finally, after decades of inexplicable omission, despite loving his short stories). Got to look up Huston’s movie. Thanks for tip!

John Fante’s Dreams from Bunker Hill would make a good ( and humorous) addition to this sub genre.

RIP to Donald Sutherland who died yesterday just shy of his 89th birthday. He played Homer Simpson in the film version of The Day of the Locust, a fact which i learned from reading his Wikipedia page since i have not yet watched the movie. To be honest, while i read the book i kind of imagined a young Tim Robbins as Homer...

RIP Donald Sutherland. Never seen the "...Locust" film, but I'd bet the book was better. Played roles in Crichton's "Great Train Robbery", "JFK", and one of my favorites "Back draft" - even though he played a small part; among other great films.

Tom, I'd be glad to send you my copy of Picture if you like. I was going to drop it off at a Little Library.

Tom wrote: "Girard wrote: "Here's a link to my "review" (a grand word for just a few of my thoughts):

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

I started reading Lillian Ross's [book:Picture|41774602..."

Philip wrote: "RIP Donald Sutherland. Never seen the "...Locust" film, but I'd bet the book was better. Played roles in Crichton's "Great Train Robbery", "JFK", and one of my favorites "Back draft" - even though ..."

I thought he was fantastic in "Don’t Look Now" directed by Nicolas Roeg, also very good in "Ordinary People" and "M*A*S*H".

I did like him in JFK as the L. Fletcher Prouty stand-in "Mr. X," but for me Sutherland's most memorable roles are Invasion of the Body Snatchers and of course the stoner professor in Animal House.

RJ - Slayer of Trolls wrote: "I did like him in JFK as the L. Fletcher Prouty stand-in "Mr. X," but for me Sutherland's most memorable roles are Invasion of the Body Snatchers and of course the stoner professor in Animal House."

You're right about "Invasion of the Body Snatchers". I had forgotten about that film, and Sutherland was very good. I never saw "Animal House".

Didn't realize that Donald Sutherland had passed. Agree he played some interesting roles in a variety of films. His role in "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" was very good, I agree. I forgot he was in JFK (there were so many actors in that film). I saw Sutherland playing the bad guy in the film adaptation of Follett's "Eye of the Needle" a few weeks ago. I know he was also in some of The Hunger Games as President Snow as well most recently. RIP.

I see that this was made into a film in 1975, with Donald Sutherland and Karen Black. It amazes me that any studio felt there was material here for a successful film. That in itself almost serves to prove the main thrust of the book - that Hollywood is fake to the core. I suppose it's appropriate that the experimental mood of 1970's cinema would be the time to justify putting this on the big screen.

The story reminded me of the opera Pagliacci, in which a clown in a traveling circus discovers that his wife is having an affair. In the dramatic finale, the three of them are performing a skit for an audience when he stabs both of them to death, crying out, "The comedy is over !"

I suppose Harry is symbolic of the end result of a life lived in the falseness of Hollywood, subject to all of its insults and rejections and ingratitude. He can be seen as the embodiment of disillusionment, even as he performs illusions. Faye likely symbolizes the fundamental falseness of both movies and Hollywood itself. Movies promise big things and may ultimately disappoint, she teases sexually and disappoints. The cock fight also serves to reflect the hopelessness, cruelty and dog-eat-dog mentality of Hollywood.

When I came to the name Tod, I wondered if West was referencing Tod Browning, who 7 years earlier came out with the bizarre story Freaks, about a circus troupe of freak show performers.

Girard wrote: "Tom, I'd be glad to send you my copy of Picture if you like. I was going to drop it off at a Little Library.

Tom wrote: "Girard wrote: "Here's a link to my "review" (a grand word for just a few of..."

Thanks for the offer, Girard, but I already ordered a copy. Appreciate it.

Brian wrote: "I see that this was made into a film in 1975, with Donald Sutherland and Karen Black. It amazes me that any studio felt there was material here for a successful film. That in itself almost serves t..."

I'm sorry I was late responding, Brian. Those are some fantastic observations. I have to admit I have never watched an opera so I can't weigh in personally on the comparison to Pagliacci, but I enjoyed your comparison just the same. There was an "operatic" feel to the tragic ending of the novel, I agree.

As for "Freaks" I haven't seen it either, although it's on my list to get to someday. If I recall, that film was referenced in the movie "The Player" (another Hollywood satire) when Lyle Lovett kept repeating the phrase "One of us! One of us!"

Brian wrote: "I see that this was made into a film in 1975, with Donald Sutherland and Karen Black. It amazes me that any studio felt there was material here for a successful film. That in itself almost serves t..."

Brian, those are some great takes on the novel. I think you nailed it about Harry and Faye. I've seen the film "Freaks" playing sometimes but never had sat down and watched it. There is a definite level of grotesqueness that plays out in the novel.

I finally finished this. The prose itself was excellent, you could touch and feel everything, and feel what is going through the minds of each character. As for the story itself, it's a downer. There is not a single person to root for other than perhaps Tod. They are all superficial narcissists (I'm sure i'm echoing what other group members have said). The dog eat dog, or rather chicken eat chicken world of Hollywood is played out with each character. I imagine it's no different today. Happy endings are far and few between.

By the way Brian, wonderful parallel with Pagliacci.

RJ, Franky & Lawrence - thanks for your kind words.