Georgette Heyer Fans discussion

A problem has been noted with the nomination process in that for your choice to be in the first 5 suggested you have to be very quick off the mark, because the 5 are filled up within hours. And there's nothing to stop the same 5 people hogging the nomination process all year! Nobody's saying this has actually been happening, but some people are definitely feeling left out.

What is the best way to tackle this, do you think?

What might work, though it would be a bit of a chore to set up, would be to divide the membership alphabetically into 12 groups, and allow each group in turn first dibs at nominating each month, opening it out to the whole membership after so many days if the number hasn't been reached.
So the first month it's anybody whose (first) name begins with A, then anybody B-Ce, then Ch - E - according to how the list divides up.
A lot of the names on the list will be people who are not active, but I assume they are likely to be evenly scattered through the alphabet, so the groups should end up roughly the same size practically as well as literally.

"And there's nothing to stop the same 5 people hogging the nomination process all year!"

Was it absolutely necessary to formulate it like this?

Despite the disclamer "Nobody's saying this has actually been happening.." following it, to me it sounds like this is exactly what is being said. :(

While I am not always very active in the Group and don't take this personally, I think this isn't very nice to those members who are actively paticipating in the nominations.

I think the best (and easiest) way is (I do it as a moderator on Virago Modern Classics group):

1. To set a day in a month when nominations are opened - so everyone knows it.

2. To send a message to all members (with a link to the thread) that such nominations were just opened.

3. If that isn't enough, I would add a rule that if your nomination was taken to a poll the previous month, this month your nomination will be considered after those whose nominations weren't taken the previous month. (If necessary, make it a two-month break.)

Excellent suggestion from Mela

Melindam wrote: ""And there's nothing to stop the same 5 people hogging the nomination process all year!"

Was it absolutely necessary to formulate it like this?

Despite the disclamer "Nobody's saying this has a..."

It doesn't look offensive to me, but I often don't notice things like that. If you tell me how you think it should have been phrased I'm happy to edit it

S

Mela’s suggestion sounds good

Mela's suggestion sounds OK to me, if it isn't too much work for you Jenny.

Mela has made a good suggestion. Just to give more options, I copied the instructions for another group I belong to. Of course the details can be tweaked as you like, but it is a way to reflect more general group interest and keep the polls open longer.

"Nominations start today and will close on... (or as soon as the poll has six books).
(TeriK - date given is one week later.)

During this time anybody can nominate and second one book each. You cannot second the book you have nominated. The 6 books with the most second votes at the end of the 7 day nomination period will go into the poll. There are no limits to the number of seconds a book can receive, although please be mindful of this as most times we do not receive enough nominations for the poll to open."

Teri-K wrote: "Mela has made a good suggestion. Just to give more options, I copied the instructions for another group I belong to. Of course the details can be tweaked as you like, but it is a way to reflect mor..."

That sounds fair, and pretty clear.

Teri-K wrote: "Mela has made a good suggestion. Just to give more options, I copied the instructions for another group I belong to. Of course the details can be tweaked as you like, but it is a way to reflect mor..."

Yes, the date of the ending is worth setting too. I didn't suggest it, because in this group there is seldom a problem of not enough nominations in a few days. For the same reason, I don't think that a "second nomination" would be used, and it is "more job for moderator". Nonetheless, I am not against those additional rules.

Mela wrote: "Teri-K wrote: "Mela has made a good suggestion. Just to give more options, I copied the instructions for another group I belong to. Of course the details can be tweaked as you like, but it is a way..."

The only other advantage I see to the second way of doing it is that it's not "first come, first serve", but gives time for others to make their suggestions and have them count.

Still, I have no particular feelings one way or the other. I love some GH, but there are plenty of her books I don't care for, so I'm not a really active participant here anyway.

Teri-K wrote: "Mela wrote: "Teri-K wrote: "Mela has made a good suggestion. Just to give more options, I copied the instructions for another group I belong to. Of course the details can be tweaked as you like, bu..."

Same, here!

I like the idea of allowing more nominations and more time for voting. The ‘first come, first served’ element wouldn’t apply if we weren’t limited to 5 books. I am one of the ones who has felt excluded - whether that’s because Goodreads. notifications don’t work as they should or that time differences affect the speed of response, I have no idea. All I know is that I tend to receive a notification of the result without having known nominations had been sought.

I really appreciate the suggestions to try and improve the process. I know everyone will be keen to make it work for us all. Perhaps a wee poll with options Jenny that we can prioritise? Happy really to leave it up to Admin to decide and try whichever method they choose for us to try.

Teri-K wrote: "Mela has made a good suggestion. Just to give more options, I copied the instructions for another group I belong to. Of course the details can be tweaked as you like, but it is a way to reflect mor..."

That looks like a good way of avoiding the problem of the mad rush to get nominations in first. It's effectively a 2-stage election, isn't it?
It would be quite simple, I think, to set up an initial poll with write-in options and then at the end of the week run another poll with just the top few - I think 5 is enough. It would also solve the problem of trying to police who nominates when.


But having a set date for opening nominations is good - the only thing is, now that I'm retired and don't get out much, the days seem to float past uncounted and it's a miracle if I remember to change the book on the first of the month! It would be an idea for somebody to take it upon themself to remind me when the date for nominations to open has arrived.

Ok, I have reached last straw with the criticism.

It may be poor wording on Susan's part, but I can assure you neither I nor any other moderator can do anything about the way notifications work or don't work & I gave suggestions for being able to check the groups, so you didn't rely on them.

I usually did the nominations at roughly the same time & allowed plenty of time as when I first started moderating here we had members in countries where they couldn't easily get hold of the book.

The nominations didn't always fill up within hours. & although this hasn't been mentioned -yet, I didn't always nominate a book myself - although yes, I usually did. I had put a lot work into the group (which was unmoderated when I took it on)& felt that was a modest reward. Looking at the results where we went to polls rather than consensus, my nominations were rarely successful. & I still think that more than 5 nominations produce too fragmented a result & other groups which send out messages have a problem with people voting without participating. For those who are a member of the Moderators' Group, I can't find the thread I was looking for but there is a thread called "People vote but don't participate" which addresses this.

Thanks Melindam for mentioning that Jenny's wording wasn't very tactful.

I'm sorry that my participation in this group is ending like this.

I am reading this on my phone and find that it chops off bits at the end of lines so I am hoping that Carol is not leaving the group but I’m afraid she may be.
I think it needs to be said that this group exists to enjoy and share our appreciation of Georgette Heyer’s novels and I really dislike the criticisms that seem quite trivial to me that are creeping in.
Maybe we all need to revisit our attitudes and how we express our opinions so they don’t hurt other people who are also members of the group.
The moderators are doing, and have done in the past, a sterling job and I think they need to be congratulated and supported not criticised and undermined.

Jenny wrote: "....It would be an idea for somebody to take it upon themself to remind me when the date for nominations to open has arrived."

I could do it if we set e.g. 1st of the month. I will simply add it to my to-do list in those days. Such a date give also a bit more time to plan and find a copy to read.

By the way, personally, the current system of nomination was ok to me. Recently I nominated more often, but, I think, rarely did my nomination win, yet it didn't matter. As Anne wrote, I enjoyed and shared my appreciation of Georgette Heyer’s novels.

I don’t think anyone has been criticising admins or moderators in this thread, but perhaps I’ve missed something. Other than the person who suggested Jenny’s choice of words was not the best.

I would never criticise the people who’ve helped make this group one of the best! I am so sorry that Carol thinks my wording was wrong and having looked at it again, I’m still unsure what exactly has offended.

My comments were about the GR system and the time zones, but if I inadvertently upset or offended anyone, I sincerely apologise.

To be honest, I have never voted for a book - I am quite happy to tag along with whatever is suggested! I constantly re-read almost all the GHs anyway (bedtime reading every night) so the chances are that I have fairly recently read whatever the nomination is anyway. There are enough books that, if people felt strongly about nominations being 'unfair', that an order (perhaps when written?) was decided without voting. It would take several years to get through everything before a repeat...

Carol She's So Novel ꧁꧂ wrote: "Ok, I have reached last straw with the criticism.

It may be poor wording on Susan's part, but I can assure you neither I nor any other moderator can do anything about the way notifications work or..."

I didn't read it in any critical way, Carol! I'm sure Susan wasn't implying that moderators can or should do anything about the way notifications work. I can't see that anybody's getting at either of us.

GreyGirl wrote: "...There are enough books that, if people felt strongly about nominations being 'unfair', that an order (perhaps when written?) was decided without voting. It would take several years to get through everything before a repeat.."

I am not sure if it was what you wanted to say, but it could be a good idea to plan group reading for a longer period (than a month). Yes, the process of establishing, and discussing, will be rather long and perhaps a bit more complicated than simple nominations and polls, but everyone will get the vote, no "first in, first out" rule, etc.

How it could be done? For example, in a thread, everyone could give (let's say) 6 nominations for six months, when the first nomination would get 6 points, the second 5 pts, etc. After a month we will add points and then:

1. a book with the most points would be read in the first month, a book with less points in the second, ending with the sixth month
or
2. from the books with the most points we will create nominations for the six polls.

I am sorry if I complicate this discussion. I hope I am not. :-)

Mela wrote: "I am not sure if it was what you wanted to say, but it could be a good idea to plan group reading for a longer period (than a month). ..."

This would help me. I don't own very many GH books and my local library doesn't have many. So I depend on Libby at various libraries, and the wait lines can be long!

The discussion seems frozen, so perhaps a little summarizing will help. I suggest we vote on the below propositions - by a poll or let everyone write here something like: "I vote for no. 2", etc. I would recommend also to sent a message to all members about such voting (on changing the way of nomination).

1. Dividing members into groups - each group will nominate at a different month (here more about it).
2. One change, that those who nominate a book in the month will not be able to do it in the next one (here more about it).
3. Anybody can nominate and second one book each - books with the most second votes will go into the poll. In other words, we will have a kind of pre-polling (here more about it).
4. Planing our reading for a longer time (here more about it).

Adding the rule:
--> To set a day in a month when nominations are opened (and closed) - so everyone knows it.
Eventually also:
--> To send a message to all members (with a link to the thread) that such nominations were just opened.

Mela wrote: "The discussion seems frozen, so perhaps a little summarizing will help. I suggest we vote on the below propositions - by a poll or let everyone write here something like: "I vote for no. 2", etc. I..."

Excellent summation! I think either the mods should chose the one they want, if one seems easier and they think it will work well, or everyone should be given a chance to vote on their favorite method.

Mela wrote: "The discussion seems frozen, so perhaps a little summarizing will help. I suggest we vote on the below propositions - by a poll or let everyone write here something like: "I vote for no. 2", etc. I..."

I agree with Teri-K. As Carol has, I believe, bowed out, Jenny is our mod. I think Jenny said in another thread she has been ill, so I imagine she (along with the rest of the group) will appreciate this summary, Mela!

I personally like your #4 idea, I think it would be helpful for planning our reading - especially if one needs to request a book from a library system, or wants to buy a copy (even Amazon, with their global reach, can’t get a physical book to us instantly! Well, a kindle perhaps, but I know some readers prefer physical books).

Anyway, I read your link to the explanation, and I think it’s excellent to provide 3-6 choices for next few months, total them, and you’ve got several months of reads chosen! Nice. Thanks for the reminder and summary! I hope those who have been frustrated with the selection process see this and chime in with their thoughts.

P.S. I know we are reading Duplicate Death for August. Hat tip to Teresa for asking, and reminding me (my memory is a literal sieve…)🙄😶‍🌫️😶‍🌫️😶‍🌫️

Susan in NC wrote: "P.S. I know we are reading Duplicate Death for August. Hat tip to Teresa for asking, and reminding me (my memory is a literal sieve…)🙄😶‍🌫️😶‍🌫️😶‍🌫️"
Same here - I was glad to see this reminder!

Do we have a book for September?

Does anyone have Jenny's contact information? (She didn't answer my message send here, on GR). We should plan our next reading (I vote for the fourth solution of nominations).

Other than clicking on her name and messaging that way - I have no other contract details for Jenny. But I agree, it’s a good idea to fix September’s book.

I hope Jenny is OK.

Yes - it’s very worrying. It’s simply not like her - (not to respond.)
I don’t know any other way of contacting her. I’m not even sure where in the world she lives.

Well, I think I have done what I could have. Now is the time for voting (for one of the options). I can't make a poll (only a moderator can do it).

Thanks, Mela, I like the idea of planning more than one month out, helpful for those who plan their reading, and need to acquire books. We’ve actually done something like this in the past, when the top two titles polled would be read over the next two months, when book 1 got 18 votes, for instance , and book 2 got 16, we read book 1 in August, then book 2 in September. No need for another vote, and there was clearly interest in reading both books, so win-win for everyone.

If neither moderator is responding you have two options, I think.

One - Send a message to GR and let them know neither moderator is responding to requests for help, and they'll probably make the person who sent the message a moderator, too. (This happened to me when I made an inquiry about a different group. Out of the blue I was the new moderator.lol)

Two - Instead of a poll start a thread where people can leave their votes, and try to contact as many members as possible to let them know where to go. A number of groups I belong to use threads instead of polls, as it lets folks comment, and it works well for choice #3, as folks can nominate and second at the same time.

Someone else may have a different idea, too.

Teri-K wrote: "If neither moderator is responding you have two options, I think.

One - Send a message to GR and let them know neither moderator is responding to requests for help, and they'll probably make the ..."

I think Jenny is currently our only moderator, and I think solution 2 is a good idea - if you’d like to start a thread Mela - that worked to get the September read going!