Ersatz TLS discussion

Hello, everyone
New month, new thread.
Here's hoping for good reading!

Posting a new thread means clicking on "I'm not a robot". Lately I've had captcha pictures as well, just one, but today there were 5!

Thanks for the new thread!

AB wrote just before the last one closed:

"looks like there is a chance for tactical voting by Melanchon and Macron candidates to lessen the right wing impact in the second stage of voting..."

Well - maybe - let's hope so. The problem is that both Macron and Mélenchon have very big egos, so there's no guarantee of that.

And now for a book review!

Impossible by Erri de Luca (trans. NS Thompson)

This was a recommendation in a book blog I follow - we often have similar tastes. I enjoyed it very much, and is definitely recommended for hill climbers and walkers.

Two men go up a mountain. Only one comes down alive. Accident or murder? The book unfolds as a series of dialogues between a magistrate and the survivor, interspersed with letters from him to his lover. It's very well written* - the dialogues are especially well handled. At one point, one of the two refers to their interviews as a 'Socratic dialogue', and certainly although the other disagrees, there is something of that about their conversations, if not in the strict sense.

As for the letters to his lover – I wasn’t entirely clear if she was ‘real’ or a figment of his imagination, used to bolster his morale during detention. Perhaps – probably – it doesn’t matter. She doesn't appear in person in the book, and the detainee specifies that he won't send the letters, and that there won't be any replies. (Maybe I'm overthinking things there.)

As is my wont, I checked out de Luca in Wikipedia, to discover that he is a keen mountain climber and ‘reclusive’. Quelle surprise! He was also a member of a radical group in the past, as was the prisoner… so you wonder how much of de Luca is in his character.

*My one reservation relates to the translation in English. At times, in the dialogues where precision of language is essential – something commented on by one of the two men, as it happens – I felt that some clarity was lost. There were certain sentences and passages where I wasn’t quite sure what was meant. I looked at reviews of two of his other books on Amazon – each was translated by a different person, and both had at least one comment stating that the translations were defective – including one from a student of Italian. Translation is very difficult, perhaps some loss is inevitable… but I sort of feel that all authors probably have an ‘ideal’ translator who gets them and does their books justice*. Perhaps de Luca hasn’t found his, yet.

*for example, Nick Caistor for Juan Marsé (Spanish to English)

scarletnoir wrote: "Thanks for the new thread!

AB wrote just before the last one closed:

"looks like there is a chance for tactical voting by Melanchon and Macron candidates to lessen the right wing impact in the se..."

The prime minister announced that if their candidates are lying 3rd in a 3-way contest they will stand aside — unless the NFP candidate doesn't embody the ideals of the republic (I don't remember the exact phrase off-hand).

If people are interested this is from Le Monde:

Emmanuel Macron wanted to give the French people their say. On this point, the President of the Republic has succeeded. For, three weeks after a surprise dissolution and at the end of a blistering first-round campaign, electrified by the possibility of the Rassemblement National (RN) coming to power, the electorate turned out in force. On Sunday 30 June, 66.7% of voters turned out at the polls.

More detail, this is from Le Figaro:

The RN smashes the glass ceiling
The RN's score is based not only on the strong mobilisation of its traditional supporters (workers, employees, etc.), but also on a broadening of its base. The nationalist party leads among pensioners, with 31% of the vote (compared with 12% in the 2002 general election), among women (32% compared with 17% in 2022) and among the more affluent (32% compared with 15% in 2022). It made strong gains among the under-35s (32% compared with 18% in 2022), and in large cities (28% compared with 13% in 2022). The worst performances are recorded among managers and the most highly educated, but here again the RN's score has doubled (from 11% to 22%).

The NFP wins over young people, the RN older people
Almost half of young people aged 18 to 24 (48%) chose the NFP, while the Union des gauches won just 28.1% of the vote, according to this latest estimate by Ipsos. It should be noted that the RN won a third of the vote (33%) in this age group, compared with just 9% for Ensemble, the majority party. On the other hand, older people voted mainly for the presidential camp (32%) or for the RN (29%), but much less for the NFP (18%). The RN obtained at least 30% of the vote in all age groups, with a maximum of 40% in the 50-59 age group.

Anyway, this is all highly depressing — back to books ...

Gpfr wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "Thanks for the new thread!

AB wrote just before the last one closed:

"looks like there is a chance for tactical voting by Melanchon and Macron candidates to lessen the right w..."

there is hope, the uk news are very negative about things, maybe not understanding the french electoral processes. of course any vote of that size for the RN is a tragedy but there is a chance for a concerted resistance

De Gaulle would be turning in his grave, his Fifth Republic, in danger from heirs of the Vichyistes

Where I live, I'm pleased to see the RN candidate was 3rd, 12.9% of votes, the left 41.6% and the presidential majority 39.1%.
76.5% of people voted.

I turned to re-reading a "golden age" crime novel to distract me.
Of the 4 main women writers, Christie, Sayers, Allingham and Marsh, I've never cared much for Christie, I prefer the other 3.
I enjoy Ngaio Marsh's Roderick Alleyn books, although in her later books (written in the 70s) she's not really at ease with certain contemporary issues and characters.
In When in Rome, Alleyn has been sent to Rome on an investigation to do with drugs and this involves him in murder and mayhem.

Gpfr wrote: "Where I live, I'm pleased to see the RN candidate was 3rd, 12.9% of votes, the left 41.6% and the presidential majority 39.1%.
76.5% of people voted."

impressive turnout!

I feel very out of touch with French politics. Whatever happened to the centre-right bloc of voters who sustained Chirac and Sarkozy? Has Macron really been that terrible? From the headlines it looks as though he’s been done in by just two factors – immigration, and the (rational) raising of the pension age. You have to say the Brits managed the latter much better, doing it gradually in stages. (No one in the US dares touch it.)

A final(?) word on autofiction.
Berkley made, I thought, a very good point at the end of the last thread, so here it is if you haven't seen it:
"I'm beginning to wonder if the term serves any useful prupose. Perhaps it might be better viewed as a technique rather than a genre - one of the many tools available to any author of fiction to use or refrain from using as he or she sees fit.

It just occurred to me, where does the roman à clef fit into all this?"

As far as the roman à clef is concerned, I would say that the difference is that the author doesn't necessarily play any part in the story.

Logger24 wrote: "I feel very out of touch with French politics. Whatever happened to the centre-right bloc of voters who sustained Chirac and Sarkozy? Has Macron really been that terrible?..."

Don't forget the collapse of the socialist party and of the old right-wing party. Macron originally was positioned as kind of centre-left/right, but is seen as moving more and more to the right, without satisfying either left or right. He is seen as out of touch, autocratic and not listening.
This was written in Le Monde in March after the decision to force through the pension reform:

The lesson for the government and for Emmanuel Macron is implacable. In this Assembly with its relative majority, dominated by the extremes, there are no reliable allies to build compromises and stabilise the five-year term. This is what makes the situation so volatile, flammable and dangerous.

Apart from the issues you mention, there's how the gilets jaunes were dealt with, police brutality, education ...

I've just seen this article:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentis...

Logger24 wrote: "I feel very out of touch with French politics. Whatever happened to the centre-right bloc of voters who sustained Chirac and Sarkozy? Has Macron really been that terrible?.."

GP has already given you an answer... in addition, I'll just emphasise that whether or not his policies have been terrible, he's a terrible politician. He comes across as so sure of himself, smug, complacent, that he won't listen to anyone. As you can imagine, after a while this starts to go down like a lead balloon with the electorate.

(Chirac was a consummate and charming politician, if a crook; Sarkozy was like Macron but a crook to boot - he was sentenced to a period of imprisonment - or house arrest, anyway. If only Trump and a few UK politicians could suffer the same fate!)

Gpfr wrote: "A final(?) word on autofiction.
Berkley made, I thought, a very good point at the end of the last thread, so here it is if you haven't seen it:
"I'm beginning to wonder if the term serves any usefu..."

i wonder what % of novels written are roman a clefs, but unacknowledged as such...it could be very high!

Gpfr wrote: "Logger24 wrote: "I feel very out of touch with French politics. Whatever happened to the centre-right bloc of voters who sustained Chirac and Sarkozy? Has Macron really been that terrible?..."

Don..."

the election of Manny Mac the first time was a remarkable event, the traiditional french right almost faded from view and the left wing had a bad experience too

Bardella could easily the youngest PM in French history and maybe one of the youngest leaders in the western world since Pitt, althouighh the french system is different to UK

It's interesting to recall that whereas Russia was seen as the West's no. 1 enemy back in the days of the communists and soviets - especially by right wing politicians etc. (McCarthy, Hoover, Nixon etc.), nowadays those very same right wing politicians are all for appeasement, and don't care a jot that capitalist/kleptocrat Russia has invaded a sovereign state (Ukraine).

(For appeasement... Trump, Farage, Le Pen...)

I don't know about the other countries, but in the UK it's worth noting that a significant newspaper is owned by the son* of a former operative of the KGB and its successor, and that they have indirectly contributed a lot of money to the Tory party (by so-called 'British' nationals who bought their passports for £50k...). Fortunately, that does not seem to have affected the Tory policy towards Ukraine - yet.

*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evgeny_...

Gpfr wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "Thanks for the new thread!

AB wrote just before the last one closed:

"looks like there is a chance for tactical voting by Melanchon and Macron candidates to lessen the right w..."

Thanks for the new thread G. Will someone help me by telling me what the various parties stand for in the French elections and their comparison, if possible, with UK parties. please.

Another thought, has the meaning of "far right" changed much over the last decade?

After my foray into very saddening 14th century France, I am now back in Scotland for the latest of Neil Lancaster's Max Craigie series



It starts with the murder and disappearance of a prostitute/escort in Scotland. Fast forward about 6 years and the now incarcerated Davie Hardie, one of the remaining members of the Hardie gang, says he will tell the police where the body is and who ordered the murder for a move to a cushier prison as long as Max Craigie (who brought him down) is not involved in any way. The police take him to where the body is buried, then things take a rather violent turn.............so far so good.

giveusaclue wrote: "Will someone help me by telling me what the various parties stand for in the French elections and their comparison, if possible, with UK parties. please...."

I find it hard to keep up with their names!
Here is what seems to me on a quick look a pretty good breakdown. Below the first yellow sections, you've got the different parties:
https://about-france.com/political-pa...

Gpfr wrote: "Hello, everyone
New month, new thread.
Here's hoping for good reading!

Posting a new thread means clicking on "I'm not a robot". Lately I've had captcha pictures as well, just one, but today there..."

Thanks for starting the new thread, and especially for going through the ordeal of those annoying captcha pictures: those things really get on my nerves.

giveusaclue wrote: "Gpfr wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "Thanks for the new thread!

AB wrote just before the last one closed:

"looks like there is a chance for tactical voting by Melanchon and Macron candidates to lesse..."

the grouped explanation would be:

Well Melanchons Popular Front is a general collab of left wing parties, verging from Corbynism to probably traditional old Labour. Macrons group are the Centrists who probably would equal Starmers Labour party with a Tory fringe and the National Rally(Bardella-Le Pen) would probably equate to a much larger and slicker version of Farage's Reform Party.

But thats just my opinion...

Gpfr wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "Will someone help me by telling me what the various parties stand for in the French elections and their comparison, if possible, with UK parties. please...."

I find it hard tokeep up with their names!
Here is what seems to me on a quick look a pretty good breakdown. Below the first yellow sections, you've got the different parties:
https://about-france.com/political-pa...."

Thanks for the link, GP. A succinct and clear summary. Para 5 seems plausible to me, i.e. Macron calculated that in the event RN did get most seats and he did have to appoint an RN PM, three years would be plenty long enough for them to fail as a governing party, with him blocking them at every turn.

Gpfr wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "Will someone help me by telling me what the various parties stand for in the French elections and their comparison, if possible, with UK parties. please...."

I find it hard to ..."

Thanks G, I will have a look.

Especially this century, I have often wondered what it would be like in the UK if we had had proportional representation. It would certainly be interesting this time round. And previously how UKIP/Lib/SNP would have fared. Also will be interesting to see how many Scots stick with the SNP after recent scandals. How long does it take a police force to find a missing £600k which should have been ringfenced in the first place? Or does it depend on how hard the police are looking.

Bit of a scattergun post I'm afraid.

But at least we don't have to choose between Trump and Biden! Or will Biden be ousted?

giveusaclue wrote: "Especially this century, I have often wondered what it would be like in the UK if we had had proportional representation. It would certainly be interesting this time round. And previously how UKIP/..."

Trump will be President in 2025 sadly, Biden is a decent man and has been a good President but he seems lost and aged next to the lying, cheating orange turd.

Faber Editions is a good example of established major publishing houses producing series of neglected novels like the university presses do.

I have a few on the pile but the one that i will be starting this week is The Glass Pearls by Emeric Pressburger, better known as the other half of Powell and Pressburger.

It got one bad review from the TLS(which i am enjoying subscribing to) and faded quickly but Faber have made it a mainstay of their Faber Editions. Coincidentally i have read more Faber novels than any others in 2024.

Trumps Supreme Court gives him another win, amazing the USA is starting to resemble a failed state with the actions of its highest court

It will be a very dark four years for the world from Jan 2025. His court cases have almost all been delayed, he will pardon himself from any he can and while he will be sentenced soon for the Stormy Daniels affair, its done no damage to his popularity

scarletnoir wrote: "Logger24 wrote: "I feel very out of touch with French politics. Whatever happened to the centre-right bloc of voters who sustained Chirac and Sarkozy? Has Macron really been that terrible?.."

GP has already given you an answer... in addition, I'll just emphasise that whether or not his policies have been terrible, he's a terrible politician. He comes across as so sure of himself, smug, complacent, that he won't listen to anyone. As you can imagine, after a while this starts to go down like a lead balloon with the electorate.

(Chirac was a consummate and charming politician, if a crook; Sarkozy was like Macron but a crook to boot - he was sentenced to a period of imprisonment - or house arrest, anyway..."

I like your descriptions. It seems we could plot French political leaders on a graph, one axis 0-100% charm, the other 0-100% crookedness.

Characterized as a "masterpiece" by both The Development of Arthurian Romance and The Oxford Guide to Arthurian Literature and Legend, I found myself force-marching myself through Parzival in A. T Hatto's prose translation for Penguin (I note that I greatly enjoyed the same translator's version of The Nibelungenlied a number of years ago).

The core of the story, Parzifal's education in compassion, is buried in endless jousts (conducted both one-on-one and as parts of tournaments and siege warfare), and padded out with the life story of the titular hero's father and the extensive solo adventures of Gawan, whose story takes up almost half of the book.

The one thing this reading has done is to lead me to even greater respect for the genius of Richard Wagner, who was able to refine and transform this material into a profound and moving work of art.

Gpfr wrote: "Hello, everyone
New month, new thread.
Here's hoping for good reading!

Posting a new thread means clicking on "I'm not a robot". Lately I've had captcha pictures as well, just one, but today there..."

Thank you for the new thread. With the US Supreme Court under fire, I'm re-reading "Scorpions," about the days when Franklin Roosevelt laid siege to the Court.

giveusaclue wrote: "Especially this century, I have often wondered what it would be like in the UK if we had had proportional representation. It would certainly be interesting this time round. And previously how UKIP/..."

Biden is a zero paving the way for Nero.

Robert wrote: "Biden is a zero paving the way for Nero..."

Very possibly - or likely. Two Qs:

1. What's your take on the supreme court decision? is it well thought out and justified, or are some of the judges people with "mind(s) as straight as a stale banana", to quote a blurb on a book I'm reading?

2. If/when Trump wins, will he give up the presidency in 4 years, or will he militate for a change in the constitution (if that is where the two-term law is enshrined)? Will he want/try to become president for life?

scarletnoir wrote: "Robert wrote: "Biden is a zero paving the way for Nero..."

Very possibly - or likely. Two Qs:

1. What's your take on the supreme court decision? is it well thought out and justified, or are some ..."

There is zero chance, ZERO, of Trump being able to change the Constitution in order to extend his presidency. It would have to pass by super-majority in of the House and the Senate, neither of which will happen. Then it would have to be voted upon and passed in 2/3 of the state legislatures which is not possible. Keep in mind that a whole host of states simply resisted bringing the Equal Rights Amendment to a vote in order to block its ratification. Changing the Constitution in the USA is intentionally a huge burden, unlike in many European countries where the Consitution can be modified by simple referendum.
Now, the interpretation of the Constitution...... that's the problem now. The idea that the mentalities of people dead 250 years must govern the reality of those alive today is a logical fallacy whose only goal is recidivism and erosion of liberties.

Thanks for that - I'm sort of relieved by that, so long as Trump doesn't try to extend his mandate via insurrection - and succeeds.
Given the man's character, I would not rule it out, though.

Under the section on "The Holy Grail", the aforementioned Oxford Guide to Arthurian Literature mentions The Natural by Bernard Malamud as a modern take on the legend.

I've had a copy for years and now, after having just finished Parzifal, seemed the time to do it. Another disappointment. The first section, which seemed like it might have been intended as a stand-alone story, wasn't bad. In it the protagonist, Roy Hobbs, on his way to Chicago to try out for the Cubs, pitches an impromptu round against a Babe Ruth-type power hitting celebrity who he happens to encounter on the train; and, aware of the Arthurian subtext, I thought it might stand for Parzifal's encounter with Ither, the red knight, at Arthur's court.

The next section opens at the ballpark of the fictional New York Knights, a pathetic major league club in last place, managed by Pop Fisher. Roy Hobbs, over a decade older than in the opening section, shows up as a rookie hired by a scout under the club owner's direction.

This is pretty much the extent of the parallel with Parzifal. Though the idea of Roy as Parzifal bringing relief to the suffering Pop Fisher as Anfortas (the Fisher King) underlies the subsequent action, the story goes its own way with Roy finding himself in a rather cliched bad girl / good girl love triangle.

I think that Malamud built his story on a foundation of myth in order to give the characters and events a kind of monumentality and make his story about “the American pastime” more universal. Whatever chance that had of succeeding, though, is undermined by his abandoning basic elements of his mythical source, particularly the resolution of Parzifal’s quest.

Paul wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "Robert wrote: "Biden is a zero paving the way for Nero..."

Very possibly - or likely. Two Qs:

1. What's your take on the supreme court decision? is it well thought out and jus..."

Its a tragedy that these inept, corrupt judges are presiding over so many disasterous decisions. The right wing justices are revelling in their chances to push america backwards and they have so much more to do

I think Trump will make sure his second term is far more damaging than his first for the progressive american populace, NATO and the EU. Only chance i can see to hold him back is for blue states to fight everything he does and try and see if the SC will be as protective of states rights when its not a Republican state at risk

The Lunar Men – Jenny Uglow (2002)

When the influential groups we are familiar with are so often on the artistic side (the Romantics, the Impressionists, Bloomsbury) it is different to meet a society of practical men who gather to discuss their experiments and instruments. Different also for receiving their education, some of them, from the dissenting academies.

Josiah Wedgwood, Matthew Boulton, James Watt, Joseph Priestley, Erasmus Darwin and a half dozen others lived in the Midlands, not far from each other, and met once a month, on a night when the moon was full, so that they could get back safely to their houses. “Their enquiries covered the whole spectrum, from astronomy and optics to fossils and ferns. One person’s passion - be it carriages, steam, minerals, chemistry, clocks - fired all the others.” From start to finish, this long, instructive and wide-ranging account of their mutual enthusiasms, and their often irregular family lives, was immensely readable.

The origin of the Industrial Revolution in Britain can be traced almost to a single evening in 1765 when Watt, at that moment out walking in Glasgow, had the sudden idea that the inefficient steam engines of the day could be vastly improved by having a separate condenser to cool the steam. If he could work out how mechanically to integrate that extra apparatus, there would be no need to wait for the main chamber to cool down before being re-heated to generate a new vacuum.

The Lunar Men were also heavily involved in promoting schemes for the new canal waterways, which were monumentally expensive for the day. One forgets how vital they were, from the 1760s on, for inland businesses. Not only did the price of transport plummet, the barges themselves were far more satisfactory. Before, when Wedgwood’s wares were delivered by cart over deeply rutted roads, a third might arrive broken.

Wedgwood, one learns, had a wooden leg. In his thirties he developed crippling osteomyelitis. Darwin, a full-time practising doctor as well as leading poet and botanist, advised that, despite the risks of shock and haemorrhage and gangrene, the limb had better come off. This operation was too interesting to miss. Wedgwood sat upright in a chair and watched while they did it.

All the while we have Priestley at work in his lab, or vigorously preaching his radical Unitarianism. Once he is at a dinner in Paris, where perhaps unwisely he describes to a young chemist, Antoine Lavoisier, his ideas on dephlogisticated air.

The later chapters are dark. In 1791, a determined mob burns Priestley’s house and books and smashes every piece of his scientific equipment, an appalling story told in fiery detail. The houses of other known dissenters are visited in the same way. Priestley with his family escape and then move well away. He becomes a minister in Hackney, where his friends supply a new lab. The temper of the times had changed. It was now dangerous to be identified as a philosopher. Soon even Hackney became too hot, and Priestley followed his sons to America. Back in the Midlands, the lunar meetings became sporadic.

The epigraph is memorable. Boswell was visiting the Soho Works in Birmingham, where Boulton was building Watt’s new engines. Boulton made a remark that Boswell himself said he would never forget: “I sell here, Sir, what all the world desires to have – Power.”

…
Some time soon I will tackle The Revolutionary Temper, Paris 1748-1789 by Robert Darnton, which I think will be an interesting companion volume.

scarletnoir wrote: "Robert wrote: "Biden is a zero paving the way for Nero..."

Very possibly - or likely. Two Qs:

1. What's your take on the supreme court decision? is it well thought out and justified, or are some ..."

If you're asking about the Court's decision on Presidential immunity, it simply summarizes decades of rulings, going back to Jefferson's time, to clarify the law.

I think that the autogolpe scenario some people come up with is daft. BUT
It is a brave man who would try to predict Trump's moves four years from now... I would shy back from predicting what he might try next year.
I do make one prediction-- that Justice Thomas will retire next year if a Republican president is in office. Biden and Thomas have been at swords' points since George H.W. Bush nominated Thomas for the Court of Appeals. Thomas will never voluntarily let Biden name his successor.

Logger24 wrote: "The Lunar Men – Jenny Uglow (2002)..."

That sounds really interesting, Russell.

Robert wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "Robert wrote: "Biden is a zero paving the way for Nero..."

Very possibly - or likely. Two Qs:

1. What's your take on the supreme court decision? is it well thought out and jus..."

Thomas should never have become a justice...thats the saddest thing

Piketty in the Guardian, this does make me wonder who big a majority Le Pen will win on Sunday

Last Sunday, the RN won a 1.6 times higher vote share in small and medium-sized cities (50,000 inhabitants or less) than in large urban centres (with populations of above 250,000). The reverse holds for the left. We digitised all commune-level results for legislative elections since 1848, and we have not seen such a large geographical gap in voting patterns since the late 19th century and early 20th century.

In cities with populations of between 20,000 and 30,000 such as Hénin-Beaumont, a former coalmining town in the north-east, and Marine Le Pen’s constituency, the RN scores 60% of the vote. Even in more populous cities such as Cambrai, in a region that has suffered big manufacturing shutdowns in recent decades and is relatively poorly served by infrastructure such as hospitals, universities and public transport links, Le Pen’s party is achieving scores above 40%.

Logger24 wrote: "The Lunar Men – Jenny Uglow (2002)

When the influential groups we are familiar with are so often on the artistic side (the Romantics, the Impressionists, Bloomsbury) it is different to meet a soci..."

This sounds really interesting - I don't often read non-fiction (it tends to feel too much like 'work'), but I might try this. I was aware of the group and had an idea of its importance, but not of many of the tales you mention.
As it happens, when I first knew madame we went on a canal trip with my brother and his wife along the Trent and Mersey, passing through the 'Potteries'... we saw loads of brick bottle kilns (shaped like bottles, but for making... pottery!) and visited the Wedgewood museum (fascinating) where we learned about the reduced breakages using that method of transport. We also visited the Bass museum in Burton on Trent, where beer was made and transported to London... they had enormous dray horses, mainly for publicity/exhibition by then (early 1980s).

Thanks for the review.

Robert wrote: "If you're asking about the Court's decision on Presidential immunity, it simply summarizes decades of rulings, going back to Jefferson's time, to clarify the law.

I think that the autogolpe scenario some people come up with is daft..."

Thanks for this... obviously, I know far less about the law (especially US law) than you. So, there is a principle of 'presidential immunity', but from what little I saw about this it extends only to 'official actions' - is that right? If President X went out front of the White House and shot the first passer-by dead, he could still be prosecuted as it would not come under that umbrella?

If that is the case - who defines what constitutes 'official' and 'unofficial' action? Is there absolute clarity on that? And on which side of that invisible line would an autogolpe* action fall? (isn't that what Trump attempted last time?)

*Thanks for the new word!

scarletnoir wrote: "Robert wrote: "If you're asking about the Court's decision on Presidential immunity, it simply summarizes decades of rulings, going back to Jefferson's time, to clarify the law.

I think that the a..."

Yeah, I also didn't see very much of a difference in the SC opinion in terms of the status quo understanding. Presidential immunity for official actions has always been considered sacrosanct. Honestly, determining election integrity would be obviously covered by immunity. Trying to enpanel fake electors or payoff hookers? No, there's no way even the most craven SC lackey would uphold that. If they believe in originalism, then they would very clearly differentiate "official actions."

Paul wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "Robert wrote: "If you're asking about the Court's decision on Presidential immunity, it simply summarizes decades of rulings, going back to Jefferson's time, to clarify the law...."

i am still waiting for this SC to do anything wise since it became a Republican court. McConnell created this situation, alongside Bader Ginsberg not retiring, its a sad situation.

https://www.therestisnoise.com/2024/0...

scarletnoir wrote: "Logger24 wrote: "The Lunar Men..."

This sounds really interesting - I don't often read non-fiction..."

Some day I should like to visit the Potteries. I didn’t realise you could still see the old kilns.

The book is written for the general reader but even so there were a few passages where I wished I had a stronger grip on things scientific. I’m sure a proper scientist like yourself would enjoy it.

I’ll share one more story from the book, this one about Erasmus Darwin.

It was from the late 1790s that some of the lasting legends about him come, recorded by his grandson Charles. George III sent for him to be his personal physician, it was said, but he refused. A mysterious gentleman arrived from London to consult him as "the greatest physician in the world, to hear from you if there is any hope in my case." Darwin examined him and declared the issue hopeless, then asked him why, if he came from London, had he not seen the famous Richard Warren, the senior royal physician? "Alas! doctor," came the reply, "I am Dr Warren."

Logger24 wrote: "Some day I should like to visit the Potteries. I didn’t realise you could still see the old kilns..."

Well, that was in 1980!* Some of those factories were still working then - you could hear the rattling of plates on conveyor belts (or whatever) from the canal. The whole trip was a mixture of the bucolic and an insight into Britain's industrial past - at one time, the canal skirted a closed and huge factory (possibly a steelworks), where in the distance we could see oxy-acetylene torches being used, presumably to dismantle redundant machinery.

Just googled the kilns - there are 47 still standing in Stoke-on-Trent, and they are under preservation orders:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bottle_....

Logger24 wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "Logger24 wrote: "The Lunar Men..."

This sounds really interesting - I don't often read non-fiction..."

Some day I should like to visit the Potteries. I didn’t realise you coul..."

as a lapsed potter I have visited the potteries, and it is an interesting place. Plenty of old kilns ekeing out a living in different guises. Its pretty run down, as a town (or five). I enjoyed my trip to the town museum, where they have a lot of examples of old 'Stoke' pottery styles, and to the Wedgwood museum, which is in a rather lush little valley, nearby, compared to the town itself. I have a memory, very distant, of reading about the group that the book, in your review, is based on, but none of the titles, in a Wiki search, ring a bell... Though that was long time ago, but the wooden leg story had stuck in my mind somehow...

4 fledgling wrens on my neighbours patio earlier, the little things skipping and flitting about trying to climb the wall at the back of the gardens, to where the nest was and the parents were darting about

3 made it and one was still hopping to and fro but every second, flight was better and wonderful to watch. A neighbour 2 doors down was suprised by 2 little visitors, i could hear him saying from behidn the fence " i've only got water and chorizo fellas!"

i had a wrens nest about 10 years ago in a crevice of nextdoors chimney, i could watch the entire progress of the nest without the wrens seeing me from behind my window...was wonderful

Fingers crossed Labour win tommorow in the UK

i am proxy voting for a neighbour who is away, so hoping that goes smoothly. My area is too close to call right now, which is fustrating as it finaly looked to be going Lib Dem for first time in 100 years.. But local govt is Lib Dem , so there might be a protest vote element, going with the Tories

Tactically a lib dem vote is the best option where i am