On The Same Page discussion

Here's the blurb about this book. I will probably start it mid-August.

Utterly unique in its astonishing intimacy, as jarringly frightening as when it first appeared, Ann Rule's The Stranger Beside Me defies our expectation that we would surely know if a monster lived among us, worked alongside of us, appeared as one of us. With a slow chill that intensifies with each heart-pounding page, Rule describes her dawning awareness that Ted Bundy, her sensitive coworker on a crisis hotline, was one of the most prolific serial killers in America. He would confess to killing at least thirty-six young women from coast to coast, and was eventually executed for three of those cases. Drawing from their correspondence that endured until shortly before Bundy's death, and striking a seamless balance between her deeply personal perspective and her role as a crime reporter on the hunt for a savage serial killer -- the brilliant and charismatic Bundy, the man she thought she knew -- Rule changed the course of true-crime literature with this unforgettable chronicle.

I read this when it first came out, Lea, and have re-read it once. For me it's one of the gold standards of true crime books; head and shoulders above much of what is out there.

I live in Florida and was in high school when Chi Omega happened. I later went to the University of Florida where, a year after Bundy's execution, we got hit by a serial killer who idolized him. I worked in the local 9-1-1 center at the time, and it's difficult to quantify what going through that experience was like. (One of the victims was a co-worker of mine, another had been the victim's roommate until two days before, and a third co-worker was supposed to have gone out with two of the victims for drinks the night their bodies were discovered.) Bundy's last victim was a little girl who lived about 30 miles north of where I'm sitting right now.

Jennifer, I can't even imagine how scary that must have been to have known someone that was a victim.

It was, but fortunately? Not really the word, but... we were so busy we didn't have time to think about it much. We went from 700 phone calls to 2100 phone calls in an 8-hour shift, overnight, and when that happens, it's not like you can miraculously conjure up extra desks, computers, phones and people. Everyone just gets stretched thinner.

Wow, Jennifer, we live in crazy times. That hits a little too close to home. I wasn't too far away from where one of the Night Stalker crimes occurred, and it is a surreal feeling to have been spared when others were not. I want to read this book, but it may be a very tough read for me. I can only imagine how difficult it must have been to deal with your own emotions while having to handle the elevated call volume. Have you read the other books about Bundy? We will be buddy reading The Phantom Prince: My Life with Ted Bundy and A Light in the Dark: Surviving More than Ted Bundy also in September and October respectively.

I've read the first one, but not the second.

Our guy went one county south and committed an armed robbery. He got caught and put in their jail. A month or so later someone realized he'd had a journal with him when he got arrested and in it he'd detailed sufficient info to identify him as our killer. There was a collective exhalation in our community, but the real "return to normal" moment came three years later at the onset of his trial.

Instead of going ahead with the trial, he pled guilty. In those days everyone listened to the radio in their cars. I was sitting at an intersection when the announcer interrupted the music with the news that it was really, truly over, and I looked around, and other drivers had tears streaming down their faces. They'd had this pent-up anxiety all that time, and it finally was released. He got the death penalty, and spent the last years of his life 30 miles up the road in the same prison where Bundy met his end. So much for idolatry.

What did you think of The Phantom Prince: My Life with Ted Bundy Jennifer? Is it a good book to read too?

That must have been such a relief to the victims' families when he pleaded guilty. I wish more people would do that. But how thoughtless to bring your journal to jail with you. Nothing is sacred in there. He should have told had someone burn it once he was arrested.

It was interesting although I thought the Rule book about him was better.

One can't help but wonder how it would be possible to live with someone like that and not know, but the unthinkable is just that -- it CANNOT be thought. If there were 50 signs right in front of me right now that the sun was not coming up in 8 hours, I'd dismiss them without a second thought. It's that rudimentary.

So to me the interesting part was her mental journey from idea to acceptance, much more so than his behavior around her. His behavior created the effect he desired-- standard sociopath fare, and as such, not all that compelling.

Jennifer wrote: "I read this when it first came out, Lea, and have re-read it once. For me it's one of the gold standards of true crime books; head and shoulders above much of what is out there.

I live in Florida..."


Oh my goodness Jennifer, that is utterly terrifying. I just can’t imagine being that close to something like that.

I’m looking forward to reading this book, well as much as you can look forward to a true crime story. Ann Rule is one of my favorite true crime authors, although I haven’t read one of her books in years.

Jennifer wrote: "I read this when it first came out, Lea, and have re-read it once. For me it's one of the gold standards of true crime books; head and shoulders above much of what is out there.

I live in Florida..."

Wow, Jennifer, what an experience! What a crazy world!

Jennifer wrote: "It was interesting although I thought the Rule book about him was better.

One can't help but wonder how it would be possible to live with someone like that and not know, but the unthinkable is just that -- it CANNOT be thought. If there were 50 signs right in front of me right now that the sun was not coming up in 8 hours, I'd dismiss them without a second thought. It's that rudimentary.

So to me the interesting part was her mental journey from idea to acceptance, much more so than his behavior around her. His behavior created the effect he desired-- standard sociopath fare, and as such, not all that compelling."

That's exactly what I wonder about. There are many books I can read about dysfunctional relationships, but very few where one of the people in the relationship is a serial killer and their partner does not know. It really makes you wonder what your partner/someone you know really well is concealing from you, as well as what you could conceal from that person. But I don't want to read more than one serial killer book per month, so I'll take it as it comes.

Linda wrote: "I’m looking forward to reading this book, well as much as you can look forward to a true crime story. Ann Rule is one of my favorite true crime authors, although I haven’t read one of her books in years."

This will be the first book I've read by Ann Rule. I have been wanting to read her books for a long time, so I'm very excited.

I just started this book! :-)

Ohhhh, I’m almost finished with my current read and will start this one next!!!

I’ve started this one!!!!

How far are you in Lea?? I’m at chapter 3. Little Ted has had an interesting life coming into the world.

Chapter 4 - (view spoiler)[Ann and Ted has met, Of course I had no idea how this would happen but their meeting was so basic, just like how people meet at any function. Although Ted has been pretty colorful, I haven’t gotten any sense that he would have turned into a serial killer. His relationship with Ann has been pretty respectful and nice so far and it appears that he enjoys the company of older women, Stephanie and Meg are both older than him. He rented a room from that older couple, I think his guy friends are around his age. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 12 - (view spoiler)[ How sad to have found the remains of 3 or 4 different bodies but they were only able to identify 2 of them. How horrible for all of those girls families. (hide spoiler)]

Linda wrote: "Chapter 4 - [spoilers removed]"

Yes, I was struck the relationship between Ann and Ted. I think that was the big surprise of the book. I'm into one of the Afterwards now, (I have 3 hours left to go on the audiobook), and I think their relationship is one of the things I knew the least about. (view spoiler)[ I do think Meg is his same age, though, they were both born in 1942. I think Meg was the opposite of Stephanie and that was the attraction to her. Stephanie questioned his masculinity. Meg soothed it. I can't wait to read Meg's book. But, anyway, I do think Ted's collection of people included older women who could be to him what his mom wasn't able to be. Each person had their purpose and his understanding of psychology and sociology caused him to appear to be what each of them needed. <\spoiler> (hide spoiler)]

Linda wrote: "Chapter 12 - [spoilers removed]"

(view spoiler)[ I agree. I understand why Ann has some sympathy for him, but I do not. I'm sure there were many victims that were not attributed to him. <\spoiler> (hide spoiler)]

Lea wrote: "Linda wrote: "Chapter 4 - [spoilers removed]"

Yes, I was struck the relationship between Ann and Ted. I think that was the big surprise of the book. I'm into one of the Afterwards now, (I have 3 h..."


(view spoiler)[today I had a thought about the women that Ted killed, I wonder if they have something to do with Stephanie. I don’t remember what Stephanie looked like, except for her being beautiful. Bit I don’t remember if she wore her hair parted down the middle and that it was long and brown, he definitely had a type as far as finding the girls and killing them. If I remember correctly, Stephanie wasn’t interested in dating Ted, I do remember that they ended up being friends and later in their relationship she wanted to marry him and he ghosted her and was rude to her that last time that they spent time together. I can’t help but wonder if that was his source of taking it all out on the women he killed, I’m sure it seems strange that he would do that but I just don’t understand what happened, it just doesn’t make sense. Unless I find out later in the book. (hide spoiler)]

Linda wrote: "Lea wrote: "Linda wrote: "Chapter 4 - [spoilers removed]"

Yes, I was struck the relationship between Ann and Ted. I think that was the big surprise of the book. I'm into one of the Afterwards now,..."

I think you're on to something, Linda. Keep reading and Rule will discuss it more. :-) After you have gotten at least into 1974 or 1975, you can read this article which has some good photographs of some of the women. Of course, Rule does not use the real names of any of the women who are still alive, but I'm sure it won't take you long to figure out who was who.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/film/ted-bun...

Lea wrote: "Linda wrote: "Chapter 12 - [spoilers removed]"

[spoilers removed]"

(view spoiler)[ Yeah, I don’t feel sorry for him either, but Ann wants to run everything by him, now that he has finally gotten arrested. She told Ted the detectives wanted to read the letters that he writes to her. I wouldn’t tell him nothing! But for some reason she felt like she need to share that information to him. (hide spoiler)]

In response to your comments on the relationship between the author and Ted, (view spoiler)[I think Rule is trying to make herself look good, by showing us what a good of a friend she is. She ultimately profits from her relationship with him by writing this bestselling book, yet she is in a tough situation. She wants us to believe that she is a good person and not taking advantage of him. She wants us to believe that she is a smart person and that he did not take advantage of her. So she has to walk a fine line, showing how she was in his thrall also, but eventually came to understand that she did not know him like she thought she did. Wait until you get to the afterward and then let's talk more.

Since I'm an accounting person, here's some extra thoughts: she died with a $10 million net worth, which she would not have had if she hadn't written this book, because this book opened the doors to many other books. I don't believe she would have been as popular if she hadn't had this relationship. I guess her $10 checks she sent him for smokes were a decent investment, but it really irritated me that he asked her and she agreed to it. (hide spoiler)]

Lea wrote: "In response to your comments on the relationship between the author and Ted, I think Rule is trying to make herself look good, by showing us what a good of a friend she is. She ultimately profits f..."


Okay, sounds good, we can talk more when I get there.

I finished the last afterward. In my book there were quite a few. Maybe four?

That seems like a lot Lea, but then again it’s a lot going on in this book. 🤦🏾‍♀️

Chapter 34 (view spoiler)[ After Ted escapes from jail in the Washington are, I think that’s,where he was, and goes to Florida. And breaks into the sorority house, it seems like he changed, like he was more angry. The way he went through that house beating those girls and violating them was crazy! I don’t know if it was because he hadn’t been able to get his “fix” for so long due to him being locked up all of that time or what the deal was, it just seemed so violent. And then going after young high schoolers, why! And I’m not saying that because none of the women deserved what happened to the, but high schoolers were not on his radar. He did go to college town Tallahassee and started out with the young ladies at the sorority house, but made him target high schoolers after that!!???!!!!!? It was all just so senseless. (hide spoiler)]

Linda wrote: "That seems like a lot Lea, but then again it’s a lot going on in this book. 🤦🏾‍♀️"

That's for sure! And she originally published it before he died, so there was more to the story.

Linda wrote: "Chapter 34 [spoilers removed]"

Did you read Bright Young Women? That's where we originally got the idea to read more about Bundy. I think the events in Chapter 34 are done from a different perspective in that book.
(view spoiler)[He escaped jail from Colorado on December 30, and the attack happened on January 15. I do think he lost control at this point. Not that the way he violated the other women was any less terrible, but the fact that he attacked so many different women and even left some still alive. And then he pivoted to two younger victims, aged 14 and 12. They do claim that those young women looked older than they were, but I'm not convinced. It's possible that something enraged him about the moral character of the women in the sorority house that caused him to seek out younger victims. Either way, I am grateful that he is no longer out there preying on victims. I wish there would have been a way to rehabilitate him, but I doubt that there was. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 41 - (view spoiler)[Finally the trial is starting in Florida, which has been moved to Miami in hopes they are able to get a good jury. Ted is so extremely arrogant, I just want to slap him!!!! (hide spoiler)]

Lea wrote: "Linda wrote: "Chapter 34 [spoilers removed]"

Did you read Bright Young Women? That's where we originally got the idea to read more about Bundy. I think the events in Chapter 34 ar..."

Yes! You read Bright Young Women with us! I went back to the thread because I thought I remembered your comments from before.

Lea wrote: "Lea wrote: "Linda wrote: "Chapter 34 [spoilers removed]"

Did you read Bright Young Women? That's where we originally got the idea to read more about Bundy. I think the events in C..."



Yep! I definitely read Bright Young Women with you guys. And yes I agree.

Chapter 43 - (view spoiler)[So I think this was the first time, I think anyway, that Ann finally had sympathy for these women and was sickened by her friend Ted Bundy with the fact that he did these horrific things to all of these innocent women. I can’t wait to see how she handles the rest of this story. Other than writing this book of course. She has been on his side this whole time! 😡 (hide spoiler)]

Linda wrote: "Chapter 43 - [spoilers removed]"

(view spoiler)[I know what you mean. Ann's transformation is too little, too late, in my opinion.

I also don't think she's a reliable narrator.

I wish one of her friends or her children could write a story of their relationship from their perspective. I think that might tell us a lot.

This book has such a split personality. I'm not sure whether she's either 1) genuine, but super wishy washy and continues to change her perspective back and forth frequently over the years or 2) believed him to be a killer most of the time yet doesn't want us too know since she was using their relationship to further her career or 3) did not believe him to be a killer most of the time, yet embellishes things such as her turning his name in to law enforcement in 1974 when all those women went missing at the state park and verbally tells him she cannot believe completely in his innocence in 1976 that we cannot substantiate, to make herself appear smarter. I'm torn and keep going back and forth amongst the three options.

I just don't understand the appeal of this man. Why does he have women willing to do his bidding? How can he have had groupies?

And how can Ann continue to send support and money to someone who she is coming to realize has done such heinous things? (hide spoiler)]

Lea wrote: "Linda wrote: "Chapter 43 - [spoilers removed]"

(view spoiler)[Yeah, it’s really hard to gage if she is being genuine or not. For me, I really want her to be genuine, I’ve never had a person in my life, like I’m sure most people haven’t who have done the most horrific things and then you have to make yourself believe that that person is capable of those horrific things, and still remain in their life and turning a blind eye. I just can’t imagine it.


I don’t get the appeal either, I’m just disgusted by him, but Ted definitely had a following though, but he isn’t the only prisoner that has had women falling all over themselves, I can’t think of any right now but there has been others. Carol Ann figured out how to marry him during one of his trials and later had his baby! It’s just mind boggling.

I don’t want to think that Ann just used him, although this book did make her an author, but Meg/Liz did the same thing, she wrote her book about her life with Ted. (hide spoiler)]

Linda wrote: "Lea wrote: "Linda wrote: "Chapter 43 - [spoilers removed]"

(view spoiler)[I know when I found out somebody I know and love had taken a human life, it was the hardest thing to wrap my head around it. The loss of life happened during a fight, so I never thought him not capable of doing what he did. I can't imagine how different it must be when somebody does something that is totally out of character.

But, I had a hard time with Bundy's character, even at the beginning of the book. He's certainly not a Boy Scout. I saw warning bells from the beginning, but I wonder if I would have if I hadn't known how this story would end. It's easy to think we would have seen it, but who knows? Probably we wouldn't have.

Yes! You're right that there are some people who fall all over prisoners. The serial murderer that got a lot of attention where I was growing up was the Night Stalker, Richard Ramirez. He got married while incarcerated also. I just don't understand it.

I still see a bit of a difference between Rule and Meg/Liz. Rule went on to make a career out of writing books about murderers, and to make a lot of money doing it. Meg/Liz wrote a book, but I don't think she became a millionaire as a result of it. It's hard to say, she has remained out of the spotlight. I'm interested in reading her book next and hearing her side to this story. (hide spoiler)]

I’m finished……..

(view spoiler)[I haven’t read a true crime book in so long. This one may have been my first serial killer book and I think they hit harder than the domestic ones. So many lives lost, for no good reason, reading these last few chapters of Bundy being sentenced to death, and then him trying to appeal to get the charges changed because of course he doesn’t want to be sentenced to death, but just think of all of those innocent young ladies, and teen girls that he took upon himself to end their lives. Why did he think his life was so much more important than their lives. It just made me so mad, and out of all of the young ladies that we knew about, there were countless others that he killed that were never reported by their friends and families, it was just so senseless! I’m glad I finally read this one especially after reading Bright Young Women, it definitely showed how much more horrific Ted Bundy was even though his name was never mentioned. I’m not sure if I remember hearing the name Ted Bundy, I was in high school during 73 to 77 and lived in Ohio. So two Bundy books down and one more to go. (hide spoiler)]

Lea wrote: "Linda wrote: "Lea wrote: "Linda wrote: "Chapter 43 - [spoilers removed]"


(view spoiler)[I agree Ann and Meg/Liz’s writing experiences were definitely different. Hopefully when we read her book she will tell us what made her want to write a book about her life with Ted Bundy. I wonder if someone might have encouraged her to do it.

Although Ann went one to have a writing career after this first book, I’m going to give her some grace. I don’t think she used her friendship with Ted. I don’t remember if it was discussed when she decided to write a book about their friendship, But I do remember her saying that he knew she was a writing a Ted book. She was already somewhat of a writer anyway with writing stories for the police department. And she had a good working relationship with law enforcement. I don’t doubt this book helped to push her forward. I wonder if that is how she ended up working at the crisis center where she met Ted. (hide spoiler)]

Linda wrote: "I’m finished……..

[spoilers removed]"

Thanks for reading it with me, Linda! I really enjoyed it. I've got 2 Bundy books down and 2 to go. I won't read more than one a month. The subject matter is too much. I did like how Rule talked about the prospects of the women who died - doctors, special needs teachers, etc. but I really liked the portrayal in Bright Young Women too. (view spoiler)[With regard to the appeals process, and him protesting his innocence all the way through until the end, and then turning around and confessing made me so mad. I'm glad he gave some of the family members closure, but I don't think it was enough. And the accountant in me was certainly counting all the tax dollars spent on all of his appeals, which were his right, but were also based on complete lies. Still, nonetheless, I would have more respect for him if he continued protesting his innocence. But, no. He needed his 15 minutes of fame. He was so arrogant and needed affirmation that he was powerful, he had done all of these things. What a sad little man. (hide spoiler)]

Linda wrote: "Lea wrote: "Linda wrote: "Lea wrote: "Linda wrote: "Chapter 43 - [spoilers removed]"

I think what you are saying makes a lot of sense. Rule was definitely writing a book about the missing women. She definitely didn't know that she would also be writing a book about her former friend. Nobody could have predicted that in the beginning. And I definitely will extend a great deal of grace to her - she never expected to become part of the book she was writing. In a book about someone else, her thoughts and actions would never be questioned, so this was a tough assignment for her. I did feel for her. That's what makes the book so interesting though. And her skill at doing it sparked a very successful career, where she ended up writing over 30 more books. If she didn't have any skill, this would have been the only book she wrote.

As for when she first thought he might have done it, to the point when she could no longer deny his guilt, it's hard to say. It's hard for her to say and even harder for us to. :-)

I definitely want to read more books by her, but not this year. After the Bundy set of books, I'm going to need a true crime break! :-)

Lea wrote: "Linda wrote: "I’m finished……..

[spoilers removed]"

Thank you for including me, it was really good to read this book together. And this book was definitely a lot! 😬 (view spoiler)[I enjoyed reading both books too, getting their perspective, although Bright Young Women was not totally based on true facts, it def I nitely has a place in the Bundy world, if that makes sense. I like you, also wish that Bundy would have just sucked it up, admit his guilt and help all,of the girls families and tell them where they were, so they could lay them to rest peacefully. I was so sadden by that 12 year olds mom she didn’t have anything of her daughter to put in her casket, that was so sad! But Bundy being his arrogant self took all of that information to the grave with him. (hide spoiler)]

Lea wrote: "Linda wrote: "Lea wrote: "Linda wrote: "Lea wrote: "Linda wrote: "Chapter 43 - [spoilers removed]"

I think what you are saying makes a lot of sense. Rule was definitely writing a book about the mi..."


So true, this book ‘‘twas just so much! 😂