SFF Hot from Printers: New Releases discussion

A novella, therefore one thread. Initially hide spoilers

I’m well back in the library queue (6th in line for 1 copy) so I may not get to this.

Stephen wrote: "I’m well back in the library queue (6th in line for 1 copy) so I may not get to this."

Luckily it is a novella, so maybe the queue will be quicker

This was a quick read, I did it in one day on Thursday. Happy to start discussing when some others have tackled it. Spoilers: I enjoyed it quite a bit, so far it's Hugo ballot material for me.

I just got this from the library Tuesday. I will start it after I finish Service Model

Hated this. Review here. https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

You found it dense? I thought it was poetic but not hard to follow except for a few extra flowery paragraphs.

yes, dense, or perhaps a better word would be overdone. I didn't find it that hard to follow I just didn't LIKE it

Kateblue wrote: "Hated this. "

Back when the author's other book was nominated for Nebula - A Stranger in Olondria, I started it but hasn't finished. The writing was good, but the story just hasn't enthralled me. So possibly I'm not just her kind of reader :)

Oleksandr wrote: "Kateblue wrote: "Hated this. "

Back when the author's other book was nominated for Nebula - A Stranger in Olondria, I started it but hasn't finished. The writing was good, but the ..."

That’s one I’d like to try. I’ll see how I like this novella, but I’m still 5th in line at the library.

So far (about 1/3) it looks like a mainstream literature masquerading as SF, a mix I don't particularly like. This means the text is of high quality, it talks about serious themes, but SF elements are superfluous... "we all have our chains"

Just finished. I didn't like it. It started pretty well, I even thought of Karin Tidbeck's "Jagannath" (the story, not the book) at some points. However, it started going downhill at about halfway point.

First of all, it got prechy in a way that's simply boring. Yes yes, slavery bad, how original of you.

But then Samatar committed the unforgivable sin of mixing inexplicable fantasy elements to SF. (view spoiler)[The telepathy was bad enough, but when the professor could even disrupt the electronic control mechanisms with a thought, the whole story became ridiculous.

And worst of all, it made the whole story lose all meaning. The moral: if you want to challenge oppression and begin a revolution, you should (checks notes) develop preternatural abilities. (hide spoiler)]

Antti wrote: "Just finished. I didn't like it. ."

Oh, sad to hear that. I was just looking around today and saw it recommended for the next year Hugo nom together with our last month read https://hugoclub.blogspot.com/2024/03...

maybe because, as you noted 'slavery bad'. I guessed possible fantasy vibes but hasn't reached a clear reveal

Yeah, definitely science fantasy by my reading, or maybe science fiction with a theological parable mixed in there. It felt more like Samatar was aiming for a "divine intervention" approach than an SFnal ESP approach.

I like some musings like about up-down as equivalents of better/worse, or her critical view on modern universities' limitations like its ok to have people chained, but worry not to be accused of their cultural appropriation... At the same time they snap out as interesting pieces of not-too-enthralling text

My review https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Oleksandr wrote: "My review https://www.goodreads.com/review/show..."

Very much agree. You are right to point out that the economics described in the book make zero sense, and it was one of the reasons I gave this book only one star.

I feel like this sort of extremely vague understanding of economics is problem with many of the new books we read: they want to have villains who are oppressing the people because they only care about money and nothing else, but then the writer doesn't actually understand how the economy works, so the mechanics of exploitation are bafflingly nonsensical.

It really seems like these sorts of writers have been immersed in pop-leftist memes about how capitalism is bad and evil, and stopped there. Which is a shame, because if they had thought about the mechanics a bit more, perhaps studied some actual Marxist theory if they are so inclined, we could have way more interesting books. They could still condemn capitalism as bad and evil, but do it in a convincing and (might I dream?) novel ways.

I completely agree, Antti! Yes, I have my views on what is bad or good for economics, but I'm perfectly fine with books, including SFF promoting different ideas as long as they do it not as just slogans 'x is bad'. For example, I love The Dispossessed: An Ambiguous Utopia with its anarcho-communism, I even agree that within the constraints the author sets, it may be better than other systems. For there is no silver bullet, no panacea one size fits all.

This has been an interesting discussion of economics. Thank you guys.

What specifically about the depiction of the economics of slavery strikes you both as unrealistic or untrue?

Kalin wrote: "What specifically about the depiction of the economics of slavery strikes you both as unrealistic or untrue?"

if the marginal cost of keeping a slave alive is greater than the marginal added value he produces, a master is better off w/o one. We are told that chained in this story are 'surplus', they cost more than they give. And the decision is to give them extremely low value added work (that universe has smartphones, but they use axe-picks? In zero-g?! As if the job is to punish.

Do you want (as an author) to write about degrading dangerous labor - look real world Congo cobalt extraction... there are sadly enough a lot of examples

The mechanics described seem to be "too many people keep getting born, so we have to turn some of them into slaves, in order to extract some sort of profit out of them". This doesn't make sense: if there are profitable jobs available (like asteroid mining), you could keep running them with normal non-slave labor, in which case (like Oleksandr said) you could use power tools and other methods of getting more efficiency out of your operation. Thus, the operation would be more profitable. There are no industrial slaves in developed countries, not because we Weaterners are so nice, but because it is inefficient.

That's not to say that you couldn't have a SF setting, in a spaceship, with slavery. For instance, the slavery could be simple punishment, either for criminals or , with totalitarian goverment, "undesirables". Or perhaps the slavery is perpetuated for weird ideological reasons. I guess it could be possible to create a underdeveloped setting in a space station, if the core functions of the station are maintained by AI+robots that the humans can't control in any way and thus can't access any sophisticated machinery.

I'm sure there are other possibilities, these just came from the top of my head. Notably, none of these create classes of people where those on the top enjoy modern Western standards of living or better, while those on the bottom live in hereditary chattel slavery because the capitalists want to exploit their labor. If you want to create a setting like that, you have to get really creative, which Samatar unfortunately didn't do.

One more thing to add: there is slavery in today's world but in 99% of the cases adults or at least teens are enslaved, not kids and no attempts to breed new slaves from their birth - it just isn't efficient, much cheaper to capture a person, who can care for oneself and work. However, in the book we see generational slavery

I’m still way back in the library queue, and I’m wondering whether I should just cancel the hold.

Stephen wrote: "I’m still way back in the library queue, and I’m wondering whether I should just cancel the hold."

Well, I would. Sorry I didn't know before . . .

Stephen wrote: "I’m still way back in the library queue, and I’m wondering whether I should just cancel the hold."

I'd say that maybe cancel, but bear in mind: [1] the writing per se is good, she is a talented author and [2] I 90% that it'll end up among the next year's N/H nominees, so if you aim at reading all nominees, as many in the group do, you may try it

It could get bumped off my ballot, but right now I'm comfortable nominating it. I thought it was great. I don't entirely agree with how you guys interpreted the slavery angle but I don't have time to write a longer post, maybe later.

I’ll certainly give it a try. Interesting that opinion here is so divided.

Kalin wrote: "interpreted the slavery angle ..."

I'll gladly wait for your longer answer, but I guess the intention of the author was to show that there are slaves and invisible slaves - bluelegs, who think of themselves as above the slaves, but who are slaves as well, only 'weightless' are free.

This just came off hold but I first checked all of your reviews 😬😬 and decided not to read it. That’s for saving me the time and sorry I couldn’t join in on time (or at all 😉).

Rebecca wrote: "This just came off hold but I first checked all of your reviews 😬😬 and decided not to read it. That’s for saving me the time and sorry I couldn’t join in on time (or at all 😉)."

I'd say try the first few pages - the start is quite well-written. That's often my problem - I "feel" that the author is talented, but their work just don't capture me

Just got a Kindle copy for C$1.99.

Just finished it myself and I'm somewhere in the middle of the opinions. At best it was 2-3 stars for me. The writing was fine, but the story just seemed simplistic to me. I'm not particularly good at ferreting out deeper meaning, but the setup of slaves, trustees & shackled teachers on the edge just didn't make a lot of sense, nor did the resolution. Lot of hand-waving at the end.

Allan wrote: "Just finished it myself and I'm somewhere in the middle of the opinions. .."

Yes, it has a solid prose but underthought ideas