The Mookse and the Gripes discussion

This thread is for the discussion once the announcement has been made. I will update this introductory post to add the list of shortlisted books with links once we know what they are.

These are the 6 books:
The Safekeep by Yael van der Wouden (Viking)
Orbital by Samantha Harvey (Jonathan Cape)
Creation Lake by Rachel Kushner (Jonathan Cape)
Stone Yard Devotional by Charlotte Wood (Sceptre)
James by Percival Everett (Macmillan)
Held by Anne Michaels (Bloomsbury)

This Strange eventful history
The safe keep

From what he is saying

The safe keep

I did not guess that one, thought it too predictable.

Orbital

Creatin lake

Got those two.

James, Creation Lake, Orbital, Held, Safekeep and Stone Yard Devotional. Wow

Not My Friends, not Playground.

Five women and one man.

Just shocked Playground isn't on there! Glad Held is, though. My favorite book.

I didn't like James or Creation Lake, and I think either one will be the winner. Hope it's James, Held is my favorite by far, but I don't see it beating James or Creation Lake, but then the shortlist surprised me. Feel kind of sick Playground isn't on there. It's gorgeous!

I thought My Friends was the biggest lock for the shortlist. Interesting

I am surprised but glad that Safekeep made it on. I really enjoyed that. and am not at all surprised to see Orbital and Stone Yard devotional on - they thoroughly deserved their spots

!!!!! all six were in my personal shortlist / predictions! I’m shocked & delighted!! (still excited to read Playground, the only one from the longlist that I haven’t read yet!)

No Playground! I am blown away with shock!

My video jumped on the fourth book so I missed that one

I am surprised that My Friends wasn't on the list.

THRILLED to see Safekeep on there

Absolutely delighted to see Stone Yard Devotional, I wasn't sure it would make it.

This puts paid to any ambition I might have had to read the full shortlist though... I just won't be reading Held after the experience I had with Fugitive Pieces.

SYD was the one that jumped Hugh. She had just talked about a claustrophobic setting when it glitched so it could haven been Headshot as well but it was SYD.

Jo wrote: "No Playground! I am blown away with shock!"

I am, too. I thought it was the best book, head and shoulders above the rest.

My favorite book, Held made it on. I don't think it will win, but I got most of the predictions wrong. LOL

The only ones I'd like to see win are Held and Stone Yard Devotional.

I got half the judges' picks right: Orbital, Creation Lake, and James.

Held, Orbital, and Stone Yard Devotional are on my personal favorites.

I am 50% with both lists.

So my first through is that the judges finally thought a bit about diversity and representation at the shortlist stage

As well as 5 women in a year when the big hitters picked for the shortlist were all male (no Cusk for example)

“Only” 2/6 US authors compared to 6/13 with a Canadian, Dutch (Israel born), Australian and English

Still not very racially diverse but the judges gave themselves almost nothing to play with from their very undiverse longlist.

“Only” 3/6 PRH compared to 8/13

Well, now I am pretty sure James will win.

Not mad at this shortlist, just surprised Powers didn't make it.
I am rooting for Held as winner, it's my personal favourite of the longlisted books.

In comparison to years gone by a pretty weak list in my opinion.
Could have been worse from the longlist they put together.

I'm not sure this will grab the public's enthusiasm very much. It's ok people like us getting enthused but the prize needs to appeal to a wider public or it will just be seen as a niche event.

Surprise My Friends and Playground didn't make though personally relieved about the latter as I've never got on with Powers.

I think Orbital could well spring forth as a compromise winner. Two favourites will be Kushner and Everett surely?

Maybe the judges could not get copies of Playground in time …. ?

It does serve the publishers right for not bringing forward the shortlist but I do think it’s the most transporting book on the longlist

I am currently thinking Held for the win - it’s definitely the one that repays re-reads which the judges keep emphasising and I feel the way they talk about it always seems slightly more enthusiastic.

Jo wrote: "Well, now I am pretty sure James will win."

Actually, based on this shortlist, I think it's somewhat unlikely that James will win.

Four of the books were my personal top 4 (haven't gotten to read Playground or Stone Yard Devotional yet). The only one I actively disliked is The Safekeep. So this works for me.

Laura wrote: "Absolutely delighted to see Stone Yard Devotional, I wasn't sure it would make it.

This puts paid to any ambition I might have had to read the full shortlist though... I just won't be reading Held..."

Funny how tastes differ. Both Fugitive Pieces and Held are on my list of favorite books of all time, but I write poetry and novels, so there's that.

Picking the only male author when the Booker has a clear (and loudly identified by the WP) problem with female authors would take some doing.

If they do pick James then my conspiracy theory - that the WP pays the Booker as a way to continue to justify the Fiction Prize - would look more accurate.

Just calculated the carried forward longlist rankings and James is the only one that is positive on Paul's system - not sure I have ever seen that before!

James winning would still mean a white male has not won.

Garrett wrote: "THRILLED to see Safekeep on there"

I thought it was too predictable, but I'm glad a Dutch author is on the shortlist. I was surprised The Safekeep made it, but not upset.

Surely James can't beat 5 women!

Henk wrote: "Not mad at this shortlist, just surprised Powers didn't make it.
I am rooting for Held as winner, it's my personal favourite of the longlisted books."

I'm rooting for Held as the winner, too. My favorite, by far.

I'm not shocked Playground missed, but I am very shocked My Friends didn't make the cut.

Surprised and delighted for The Safekeep - one I really enjoyed but felt like it was maybe too straightforward (beyond what Edmund spoiled) to reward multiple readings.

Only one man on the shortlist is really exciting... but his book is my favourite of the entire longlist.

Right now I'd be very happy with James or Stone Yard Devotional winning. Maybe a little disappointed if Orbital won. And while it wasn't for me, I could absolutely imagine Held taking home the prize.

Jo wrote: "James winning would still mean a white male has not won."

Last ten years have had 7 male winners (4 white and 3 non-white)

Hugh wrote: "Surely James can't beat 5 women!"

Only if Kate Mosse wants the judges to prove her point.

Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "Maybe the judges could not get copies of Playground in time …. ?

It does serve the publishers right for not bringing forward the shortlist but I do think it’s the most transporting book on the lo..."

Certainly hope your right. Held is my favorite by far!

With Safekeep a first read has the twist, a second you read looking for clues. I can’t see a third read showing anything and the judges are really really emphasising re-reading.

I liked Playground a lot and I'd have liked to see it there but I'm not surprised it didn't make it - I think it was probably a bit too controversial.

On the other hand I thought My Friends was stodgy but believed it was a dead cert for the shortlist - glad to be wrong.

Interesting figures GY, I hadn't realised the winners were quite so male-dominated, though more racially diverse.

Looking forward to the shortlist readings in Cheltenham soon.

Given that all my favorites did not make it, I might give held a second try...

Here is Justine Jordan in the Guardian reflecting on the six novels:

https://www.theguardian.com/books/202...

Jo wrote: "James winning would still mean a white male has not won."

But still, yet another male.

I like the ecletic way they split this list with three books almost pacifying, introspective, meditative and the three books more provocative, trangressive, and rebellious. Creative Lake seems to have a big push this year.

I'm shocked about the exclusion of My Friends (I was rooting for it to win). Bookstagram seems to agree:
https://www.instagram.com/p/C__Nj09Og...

At first, I was a little disappointed that My Friends and Playground didn't make it.

But when I look at the overall list, I very much enjoyed four of them (James, Stone Yard Devotional, Creation Lake, Orbital), and I liked Held. I think Held would benefit from a second reading, which I plan to do.

The only clear disappointment for me is Safekeep, which I do not think comes close to the same quality as the others.

I'm just catching up to this now. I should have put a wager on the shortlist!

Joy D wrote: "At first, I was a little disappointed that My Friends and Playground didn't make it.

But when I look at the overall list, I very much enjoyed four of them (James, Stone Yard Devotional, Creation L..."

Joy D wrote: "At first, I was a little disappointed that My Friends and Playground didn't make it.

But when I look at the overall list, I very much enjoyed four of them (James, Stone Yard Devotional, Creation L..."

I didn't like Chapter 10 at all and just scanned it, not a fan of erotica, and I thought the book would have been much improved had she just hinted at things.