Literary Fiction by People of Color discussion
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Oct 16, 2024 08:16AM
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Just FYI… For those of this group who may be interested in following two different discussions of this book, the Constant Reader group started their discussion yesterday (10/15).
The Kirkus Prizes were announced Wednesday night in New York. Fiction: “James,” by Percival Everett was the winner with 50K prize.
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Oh my! I just recently found out who the nominees were. I had no idea the winners were being announced so soon. Congrats to Everett - again!!
It is a 15 week wait via Libby for me to get this book! Might see me again in December!
I'm in the same boat, I'm in queue for it at my library but it's still iffy if I'll see a copy before the end of November.
So very weird....There were 100 holds on the ebook but none on the 20 physical copies. I'll get mine tomorrow! And I'll be the only weirdo on the metro reading an actual book with pages on the way home!
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Went through this one liked a hot knife through butter. Another triumph from mister Everett...only after I see how long it sticks in my memory can I judge it against the many others of his I've read.
James is my favorite so far; I did love The Trees and will re-read both! And many of more of Everett's books are on my to be read list.
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ColumbusReads wrote: "So Shirleynature & William, this book evidently felt good as a standalone to you. It’s not necessary to have read The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Twain before reading James? Do you recall eve..."I suppose I did..I largely blanked that out of my mind..I was the only black in my class at a private school and I just remember the absolute glee on my white classmates faces when they could use the word nigger multiple times when reading passages.
I didn't reread Huck Finn before reading James, and it's been decades since I had. I didn't feel I missed anything in terms of my admiration for this one, although there might have been some subtle digs or comparisons that I missed due to that lack of refresher. I know some readers have read the original before James and didn't feel it offered that much in terms of their consumption of this one.
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Part 1: 11/4 - 11/8
Part 2: thru 11/15
Entire book open 11/16
ColumbusReads "So Shirleynature & William, this book evidently felt good as a standalone to you. It’s not necessary to have read The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Twain before reading James? Do you recall ever reading Huck Finn?" It's not necessary to read Twain's Adventures... I faintly remember reading it many decades ago for school. What I find interesting about reflcting on the two is that Everett has an admiration of Twain's work, so this might be a justification to revisit the elder.
I never read Huckleberry Finn in its entirety, I just never have been terribly eager to read Twain, and mainly know the story second-hand from reading excerpts, studying other lit and knowing other media/culture. It's a little weird because everything so far (I'm almost done with Part 1) is vaguely familiar but I don't feel I can trust my knowledge of the source material and have to look stuff up. I'm quite impressed with Everett's writing and I really like the subversiveness and agency he gives to James. The interactions James has with other enslaved people really open up James' perspective for the reader. And I appreciate Everett doesn't really soften certain aspects of the world James lives in that are uncomfortable to read in 2024.
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Question 1: I think there's a lot of satire in Part 1. The whole idea of James and other enslaved people employing a special variant of English when speaking to white people is deeply satirical of white people's expectations and assumptions of Black people, which so often focus on Black people's use of language as being evidence of Black people's (lack of) intelligence, agency and education. Everett hit a gold mine with that. Question 2: I like the book cover! The black background that composes most of the cover in contrast with the large yellow lettering of "James" and in the hook of the J we see a drawing of James and only James. It all suggests to me of the novel's intent to make James the focus.
I saw a PBS interview of Everett on You Tube where he said this book was meant to a "conversation" with Twain to see James' perspective, because that was a perspective Twain was not able to embody. So there's this big unknown there in the original book, like the black background of the cover, and here is Everett breaking that unknown open, like the yellow lettering of James' name breaking up the black background, and letting us see James as himself as oppose to "Huck's companion" and know his mind and experience which is very different from Huck's.
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Thanks for this, CJ. I ‘m gonna look for that pBS interview. That’s so very interesting about the book cover and shows a lot of thought went into it. Very powerful.
CJ wrote: "Question 1: I think there's a lot of satire in Part 1. The whole idea of James and other enslaved people employing a special variant of English when speaking to white people is deeply satirical of ..."I appreciate hearing your perspective on the cover. I'll confess I didn't look as closely at it and missed that little person in the 'J'. Fascinating, and pretty cool. I agree completely with the focus being on James and his perspective and experiences.
I also love the satirical representation around language, and the code switching that takes place to keep things from the bigoted whites in his world.
Just a reminder: James is shortlisted for the 2024 Booker Prize which will be announced on Nov 12. This is the only book I've read on the shortlist so I'm wholly unqualified to compare them, but I loved James and would be happy to see it get a lot of awards. We can talk about the whole novel now, correct?
OK, so I have way more thoughts on this than I can go into but here are some that really made me think:
What were you all's thought about James' choice to save Huck over Norman? Norman is such a complicated character I think, and like all other characters in this book, he's symbolic of something in the experience of the US culture for Black Americans, in particular colorism and "passing" and all the complicated consequences for that for the larger Black community.
Norman is presented as fairly sympathetic by Everett, yet James never comes to trust him, really. There's always that lingering feeling that Norman can use his status as a Black man who can pass as white to betray or abandon James. I think this is partly the root of James' choice to save Huck over him.
Huck in Twain's work is often described as a symbol of the US as a young nation, full of wonder, adventure and optimism toward the future. He is also always assumed to be 100% white. But Everett plays with that. There are hints in the first part that Huck may be mixed race, or at least look like he is. And then after James saves him, he tell Huck he's his father. Huck's father in both Twain's and Everett is a wretched figure: a white man consumed by alcoholism and violence that he directs at Huck. This no doubt is symbolic of the US' origins as colonies under "Old World" British rule, but what's more interesting to me is James' assertion that he is also Huck's father, but a very different kind of father. One who has been benevolent toward him, spared him, saved him but also one that Huck struggles to see as his father. I think Everett wants us here to think about the role of Black enslaved people have played in making the US into the nation it became--a successful, wealthy and independent nation.
I think Everett is of a like mind with Ralph Ellison here (who he gives a big nod to with the character Brock, which is a whole other discussion). Ellison really saw the future of this nation as requiring whites and Blacks coming together in a shared community of understanding and acceptance. Everett seems to suggest that Huck, a symbol of the country's future, needs to accept James' parentage, a symbol of the collective contribution of Black enslaved people and their free descendants.
To get back to my thoughts about Norman, I think Everett is suggesting that James, in saving Huck over Norman, is choosing a future where the place of Black people in US history is acknowledged openly versus a continuation of the status quo of Black people seeing their worth and status in US society as centered around whiteness.
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No, we are only discussing Parts 1-2. The entire book is open on Nov 16th.
here to comment that orbital by samantha harvey, to my surprise, won the man booker. i reallyy thought james or the safekeep was going to take it, people were absolutely loving these two. anyways, i'm wrapping up a few reads and i'll get to james soon! xoxo
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I was watching that also and thought JAMES might win.
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In accepting the award, Everett said that seeing people coming together to celebrate books gave him a sense of optimism during what was, for him, a challenging moment.
“Two weeks ago, I was feeling pretty low, and to tell you the truth, I still feel pretty low,” he said, in an oblique reference to the results of the presidential election. “As I look out at this, so much excitement about books, I have to say, I do feel some hope.”
CJ wrote: "The whole idea of James and other enslaved people employing a special variant of English when speaking to white people is deeply satirical of white people's expectations and assumptions of Black people, which so often focus on Black people's use of language as being evidence of Black people's (lack of) intelligence, agency and education. Everett hit a gold mine with that.while i agree with the end point, i'm going to lightly push back and say i'd rather not name it an accent or a variant of english, but another distinct language. everett doesn't address 'slave speech' as anything else but as a whole seprate language, like AAVE or any creole language. that's why he writes differently and doesn't just add at the end "i answered with xyz tone/accent", it's bcs they are separate and have different grammatical rules, oral pronounciation rules and sentence structure rules. also, he uses the idea and the act of translation often when relating these two 'modes', cementing the idea that we are indeed hoping between two languages thru out the whole novel. a notable moment is one where james discovers norman is black and a slave. amidst his internal confusion, james labels norman a bilingual. i don't want to come across as mean or condescending, it's just if we're going to talk about the writing choices and languages (which are really way more interesting if approached this way), i'd rather we get it right about language vs accent.
okay :) cool. so.
while it directly satirical and mocking the naiveté of whites and/or previous white writers when writing black slaves, i think this code-switching along with the narrative and the story itself reveals perfectly something that W.E.B Du Bois, an african-american sociologist, historian, pan-Africanist civil rights activist and socialist, has coined "double consciousness" in his work " The Souls of Black Folk".
in my words and understanding, "double consciousness" is this concept which theorizes people in marginalized communities experience themselves twice, one for themselves like everyone does, and one for the colonizer. i think James, in just setting this code-switching in different conversations with different folks, sets itself apart from every other slave narrative we might have encountered in the past. because by masterfully placing this double consciousness from the get-go and keeping it for the whole novel, there's already this essential lens, this vision that historically white people lacked in their stories about black folks and they get to experience to faithfully what it is like to constantly think of yourself twice thru the reading of this novel. (btw: direct shots fired at william styron with his confessions of nat turner, roll in your grave ho). it's like everett didn't think it was enough to follow the black man, you will be the black man. and in a sense, it's a bit revolutionary bcs it's the first time we see a greatly popular slave-narrative being presented this way - as the slave already aware, already proud and courageous (especially in educating the young ones in secret) - and i'm saying this last bit bcs i feel that often slave narratives presents slaves as overall unintentional until xyz happens or a random "intelligent" one in the bunch lights up and gets shit started, but here, it's complete subverted.
i hope i'm expressing myself in a way that's understandable, i'm typing this very fast. i resonated strongly with this choice specifically. and i'm sure the way james was thinking to himself about certain things like language, the people around him and also his hunches about certain people was deeply satisfying to see for other black people (again shots fired at william styron, get recked b**) . it's like you could have never seen percival everett in person and you would just know that he's black too.
I wonder how many white readers panties gathered firmly in a bunch when James revealed to Huck that he was his father?
As a white reader, I found that reveal very thought-provoking, bringing an entirely new dimension to the dynamics between them and all the ways that secret had to have impacted James through his life. It added to the injustices he was forced to live in my mind. No panties twisted in this reader! A very interesting twist in the story, however. 🥰
Maya... very intriguing thoughts. Thanks for sharing your take on the language dimension in this read. It enriched my own understanding of how important that code-switching was.
Carmel wrote: "As a white reader, I found that reveal very thought-provoking, bringing an entirely new dimension to the dynamics between them and all the ways that secret had to have impacted James through his li..."Lol
to be honest, i'd like to hear people's thoughts on emmett's character. i think besides norman and james' connection he's the most interesting character of the bunch we meet in the novel.
maya ☆ wrote: "CJ wrote: "The whole idea of James and other enslaved people employing a special variant of English when speaking to white people is deeply satirical of white people's expectations and assumptions ..."that is so interesting and well-put! i agree with the author employing two different languages in order to reflect james' and other colonized people's experience of double consciousness.
@Maya yes Emmett was the one to watch for me. Have just finished reading (long wait via Libby) and grateful for this space.Emmett struck me as maybe the most identifiable example of current day racism seen in white "progressive" spaces. He was different" but ultimately the same, offered entry into previously off-limit spaces but with no plan, or protection. Created nearly impossible to achieve standards (for freedom). And ultimately fell right back into the same camp as his peers.
Nicole wrote: "Emmett struck me as maybe the most identifiable example of current day racism seen in white "progressive" spaces. He was different" but ultimately the same, offered entry into previously off-limit spaces but with no plan, or protection. Created nearly impossible to achieve standards (for freedom). And ultimately fell right back into the same camp as his peers"yes!! but what popped to me was how he uses capital as an indirect tool for james' expected obedience. in a sense, i think emmett is no different have a capitalist exploiting workers. i think it's a parallel worth analyzing.
