Reading the 20th Century discussion

Welcome to our buddy read of A Game of Hide and Seek by Elizabeth Taylor.

Harriet and Vesey meet when they are teenagers, and their love is as intense and instantaneous as it is innocent. But they are young. All life still lies ahead. Vesey heads off hopefully to pursue a career as an actor. Harriet marries and has a child, becoming a settled member of suburban society. And then Vesey returns, the worse for wear, and with him the love whose memory they have both sentimentally cherished, and even after so much has happened it cannot be denied. But things are not at all as they used to be. Love, it seems, is hardly designed to survive life.

Everyone welcome!

Currently £3.99 for a Kindle in the UK....



https://shorturl.at/mlfen

It has taken 3 tries and 20 minutes to find the right Elizabeth Taylor in my library system. I do miss the card catalogue.
And it turns out I'll need to request it through ILL. There appear to be several editions available in that system. Phew.

For now posting here as a reminder. With luck I will get updates as we get closer

One of us usually bumps the thread as we get closer to the time so you'll probably get notifications.

I'm bumping this thread up because, when figuring out which to read first of the four RTTC books I'm reading this month, I had trouble finding it. With no comment since November 5th, the thread was buried deep.

And yes, at first, I did think you guys were playing an actual game of hide and seek with the thread as a clever tie-in.

And, if you really were then ... I win! My prize?

You're always a winner in my eyes, Brian! 🏆

Who's reading this one, and have you started yet? I'm hoping to make a start soon.

I think I'll need to skip this one because it has to come from out of the county, and I have so much other reading right now. And so little time. No one tells you how time-consuming it is to track & respond to a coup. (To say nothing of the drain of emotional energy.)

I have it and plan to start on the weekend. Love Elizabeth Taylor so am looking forward to it.

I was waiting to start whenever the "Buddies" who agreed to read this started but, now that its the 18th of the month, I've decided to go ahead and start either tomorrow or the next day.

I'll be starting tomorrow...

I started today and had a bit of trouble getting into the story at first. Also, the prose wasn't flowing smoothly. But then it got better when some dialogue was introduced.

Before reading this novel, I had read a critical review of Ms. Taylor that compared her writing to Elizabeth Bowen. That surprised me as I had never felt they were similar before. I think Bowen writes very well but is not smooth flowing reading. Taylor also writes very well but generally is a smoother read than Bowen.
Now I see the comparison. And I know you like Bowen, RC.

Brian E wrote: "I had read a critical review of Ms. Taylor that compared her writing to Elizabeth Bowen. "

That surprises me too. Could it possibly be from someone who sees them both as middle class white women published by Virago?!

I think of Bowen as a stylist with a brittle, febrile way of writing, deliberately not flowy. Taylor is smoother, I agree, sometimes even a little clumsy on a sentence basis but far more concerned with getting inside her stories and characters.

I love them both but wouldn't necessarily put them on the same team writing wise.

Roman Clodia wrote: "Brian E wrote: "I had read a critical review of Ms. Taylor that compared her writing to Elizabeth Bowen. "
That surprises me too. Could it possibly be from someone who sees them both as middle class white women published by Virago?..."

While I normally avoid Introductions due to plot spoilers, I started this book's Introduction by Elizabeth Jane Howard to find out her comments on Taylor generally and planned to stop reading when it started talking about the book plot and themes.
The first sentence of the Introduction mentions that, despite getting little public attention, Taylor was appreciated by her peers like Bowen and Compton-Burnett. The second sentence of the Introduction says:
"Reviewers never tired of comparing Taylor with Bowen"
There are no sources cited.

I don't know Ms. Howard very well except that she was an author and friends with Taylor. But she did have an interesting pack-filled love life with affairs with authors Arthur Koestler, Laurie Lee and Cecil Day-Lewis, critics Cyril Connolly and Kenneth Tynan and a marriage to Kingsley Amis.
She was obviously too busy to give much thought to the Bowen-Taylor comparison she cites.

I've never got on with Bowen but love Taylor. Chalk and cheese in my view

Nigeyb wrote: "I've never got on with Bowen..."

Yet she has nothing but nice things to say about you.

Sorry Liz

Nigeyb wrote: "Sorry Liz"


Apology Accepted!!
___ ___

I've made a start and also found the beginning a bit difficult and kind of fuzzy: not sure who was who and where the story was going. It's settling down a bit now and I love the atmosphere of awkwardness.

Just when I'm being lulled, Taylor pulls off one of her little bombshells: 'He knew she was a good wife, though a bore' - ouch!

Preceded by 'What she simply hated saying she always said for a long time' - yes, I know that person who will not let an argument drop.

Lilian's an interesting character with her suffragette past - I was surprised that she actually went to prison for her politics. And it's not hard to see how that feeds into her awkward relationship with poor Harriet.

Oh and Lilian and Caroline are vegetarian and have up the children to be too - I guess it's part of their political credentials? Unusual for what I guess must be the 1930s?

It's been a thing for longer than you might think RC


The Vegetarian Society was founded 1847 in Ramsgate

It had a real boost in the 1920s and 30s when, post WW1, many were more receptive to what were previously fringe ideas. I believe there was also a link to feminism - partly as it was a way to free women from the kitchen and so allow time to pursue other activities

Interesting, thanks - I had the feeling it was linked into leftist, Fabian Society-style politics but wasn't sure. Both Lilian and Caroline were suffragettes (or suffragists? I always muddle them) who went to prison for their activism so that makes sense.

Vesey goes out for lunch with their children and orders chops for everyone - eek!

Are you joining us on this read?

I was reminded of the married couple in Waugh's A Handful of Dust who are so bored that they fill their time trying out fad diets, and they experiment with vegetarianism before moving on restlessly to the next big thing.

I've started this and am enjoying the start - I was also slightly surprised by the vegetarianism. Vesey forcing the others to eat meat seems to show something about his personality, a sort of selfish recklessness.

Vegetarianism and the 1930s always makes me think of Orwell's quote from The Road to Wigan Pier....


The typical Socialist is not, as tremulous old ladies imagine, a ferocious-looking working man with greasy overalls and a raucous voice. He is either a youthful snob-Bolshevik who in five years' time will quite probably have made a wealthy marriage and been converted to Roman Catholicism; or, still more typically, a prim little man with a white-collar job, usually a secret teetotaller and often with vegetarian leanings, with a history of Nonconformity behind him, and, above all, with a social position which he has no intention of forfeiting. This last type is surprisingly common in Socialist parties of every shade; it has perhaps been taken over en bloc from the old Liberal Party. In addition to this there is the horrible — the really disquieting — prevalence of cranks wherever Socialists are gathered together. One sometimes gets the impression that the mere words "Socialism" and "Communism" draw towards them with magnetic force every fruit-juice drinker, nudist, sandal-wearer, sex-maniac, Quaker, "Nature Cure" quack, pacifist, and feminist in England.

RC, I'm not joining in on this one


I absolutely loved Mrs. Palfrey at the Claremont and The Soul of Kindness but was less enamoured by Angel and A View of the Harbour

I feel that I might have enjoyed the best that Elizabeth Taylor has to offer. Perhaps wrongly. So this, combined with my ever expanding backlog, a real world book group read, and three more RTTC reads next month, make it a no this time round.

I am following the discussion with interest though and, if it looks as though we've got another Elizabeth Taylor classic here, then I might spontaneously dive in.

No pressure, Nigeyb, I just wondered. Glad you're with us, Judy.

I'm really liking this now (though not far in) after a slightly wobbly start. There are some brilliantly funny scenes especially around the children. Taylor's humour is often understated and she just leaves it there for us to pick up or not.

I'm slightly reminded of On Chesil Beach in the relationship between Harriet and Vesey - they're 18 but feel more like 15 in their awkwardness together.

Nigeyb wrote: "One sometimes gets the impression that the mere words "Socialism" and "Communism" draw towards them with magnetic force every fruit-juice drinker, nudist, sandal-wearer, sex-maniac, Quaker, "Nature Cure" quack, pacifist, and feminist in England"

Blimey, George! (She says, putting down her freshly squeezed grapefruit juice while breathing in the scent of rose-geranium essential oil and deciding it's really not warm enough for sandals yet) 😏

I know. Quite the statement eh?


Hits hard, especially for this sandal wearing vegan pacifist with a firm belief in nature cures and feminism

He was certainly no feminist as has been made abundantly clear from Wifedom: Mrs. Orwell's Invisible Life.

But I do have a wide grin on my face as I pop out for tofu to make miso soup for lunch 😋

Glad I'm in good company here, as I literally was polishing off my tofu and veg dinner while reading about the chops forced on the children (trying to remember back 40 years what a chop tasted like and only conjuring the grease and strings ... oh and pepper?).

Anyway, I'm almost done with the first chapter and agree the start was a little rocky but very smooth now. Vesey is an odd one. At first he reminded me of Harold in Harold and Maude. Maybe it was the staged suicide.

This seems different than any other Taylor I've read. Maybe it's just similar in its uniqueness. :-)

It has been a few years since I read this, but I was reminded of Rosamond Lehmann's Invitation to the Waltz and the sequel Weather in the Streets.

Kathleen wrote: "Glad I'm in good company here, as I literally was polishing off my tofu and veg dinner while reading about the chops"

Haha, so Vesey won't be invited round to dinner at ours anytime soon!

I agree, this doesn't feel like any of the other Taylors I've read, but then neither does Mrs Palfrey, in hindsight.

Our very own Brian might have something to say about that as he's particularly good at compound meta-analysis.

As RC said, this one got off to a fuzzy start, which I thought was atypical for Taylor. Taylor writing is generally clearer and and smoother in both style and storytelling. But the fuzziness soon vanished as the storytelling stated getting clearer. The characterization did too.

I'm now finding this to be a typical Taylor reading experience, which is a well written, well-crafted, non-melodramatic story of complex upper-to-middle class characters that, outside of the Mrs. Palfrey duo, I have found myself intrigued by but whom I neither identify with nor get attached to.

RC, while it's nice to finally discover I'm particularly good at something, I don't know what compound meta-analysis is. I thought meta is just when a novel or its characters are self-consciously aware of their fictional status.
Generally, I avoid meta works. I abandoned plans to read The New York Trilogy when I found that the word "meta" was used to describe it, even though I had already bought the book.
So a little help RC. When at the next cocktail party I go to, I claim that "I'm particularly good at compound meta-analysis" I'd like to be able to describe what it is I'm good at.

I'm sure there's an official definition and I'm pretty sure I'm not using it in the right way but you're good at looking across an author's work and bringing out interesting insights - so compounding up thoughts on the individual books into something broader and productive.

Not to be confused with the modernist/postmodernist meta which is short for metatextual or metaliterary referring to books which are playfully self conscious of their status as texts, and are not playing in the space of naturalist fiction like much nineteenth century writing which is pretending to represent reality.

I'm sure you can work that happily into your next cocktail party conversation - mine's a dirty martini, thanks 🍸

I've just read a bit about Lilian pinning on "that badge made like a prison gate" for an annual "meeting at Mrs Pankhurst's memorial". I wondered what the badge looked like and found this image:

https://www.parliament.uk/about/livin...

I do love Taylor's prose style, with sentences like these:

The days shortened, but only technically. The time it took to live them seemed endless.

For me, it's a bit hard to believe in Harriet being "not clever" and failing all her exams, given the quality of her perceptions - for instance, her thoughts in Chapter 2 about why older people often mention public events as the landmarks of their lives rather than private events.

It is never like that, surely? she wondered: not, at the end of a long life, to see other people's sadness and triumph as the key moments? Or do Mafeking Night and the rest stand in the place of the secret and personal, in the place of what cannot be told and must perish with us...

Thanks for sharing about the badge, Judy. I love that, actually. Very cool design.

I think I'll choose to believe Harriet is actually clever, but very self-conscious, distracted from her studies, and maybe has test anxiety.

Another insight from chapter two I particularly liked (other introverts may relate):
“It appeared to Harriet that she was always the one who remembered having seen other people. They never remembered having seen her …While she was trying to tone down her enthusiasm to something more appropriate, they were attempting to simulate what they did not feel.”

Kathleen wrote: "I think I'll choose to believe Harriet is actually clever, but very self-conscious, distracted from her studies"

Also, she has a kind of instinctual, emotional intelligence that perhaps doesn't respond well to 'book-learning'. She's so astute about Vesey, for example.

Plus there's all that pressure from her mother on living up to the suffragette legacy, and Harriet already knows she's perceived as a disappointment so there's a kind of self-fulfilling prophecy.

What do you all make of Vesey?

Taylor has created such an awkward character who still feels deep. I'm fascinated by the way he oscillates between his moods, and feel drawn to him despite his behaviour, in the way Harriet is.

Is anyone else getting Madame Bovary vibes?

'Harriet's virginity they marvelled over a great deal. It seemed a privilege to have it under the same roof. They were always kindly enquiring after it, as if it were a sick relative.'

An Elizabeth Taylor sentence if I ever heard one! :))

How's everyone getting on with this?

I've finished and loved it. I thought some of the side-line plots were a little too much, especially around Betsy, so it was 4.5 stars for me really, but rounded up to 5 as there was so much I loved.

The writing feels particularly accomplished here, and Taylor's wonderful compassion and empathy is on full show.

I'm looking forward to hearing how you all read the ending.

Without giving reasons why (at this stage) I was satisfied with the ending.

I've finished and loved it too, and also thought 4.5 rounded up to 5. I noticed that Madame Bovary is mentioned at one point in the novel, after you mentioned it here, RC.

On Betsy, it was interesting to read about her crush on the teacher and lies to get attention just after reading the very similar elements in A Pin to See the Peepshow. I was also intrigued that Taylor gives this character her own first name, as highlighted when Betsy writes Elizabeth in the front of a book - is she hinting at something autobiographical? Although I think Harriet, not Elizabeth, is the same age as the author, so maybe not.

As well as Madame Bovary, there's Charles reading Persuasion and references to a black and white film of lovers set in railway stations that is clearly Brief Encounter.

I think Taylor had a long affair but I didn't get the impression it was like this so perhaps biography isn't helpful.

Interesting that you found a parallel with another recent read. I could actually have done without Betsy at all, apart from her interesting feelings about Vesey.

I got busy this week, but when I've had a chance to read I love it. I'm actually just starting the Betsy side-plot now, and was a little disappointed since it's stuck in right before the much-anticipated meeting with Vesey!

But I'm looking forward to continuing, and will probably finish early next week.

I love the variety of characters--also a hallmark of Taylor I think. Charles' mother Julia makes me laugh! I have nothing in common with her--except, I have been known to have a similar dramatic reaction when I've monumentally messed up a meal. Catastrophe--all is lost!

Yes, I loved Julia - she has something of the grotesquerie of characters from Mrs Palfrey, I thought - and we need the shots of comedy amongst all the intensity.

One of the things that's interesting is how the children may develop in relation to their parents: Charles is so stolid and staid in comparison with Julia; Vesey has been neglected and passed off to his uncle and aunt; Harriet feels like a disappointment to Lilian with her brave suffragette past.

I suppose that's why Betsy is here.