Tournament of Books discussion

Space to discuss the 2025 TOB contender The Book of George by Kate Greathead.

“My daisy.”
Good Christ, what an unlikable character.

I'm surprised by how much I enjoyed a book about someone I would probably hate in real life.

I also am uncomfortable with how many times descriptions of George reminded me of myself.

Tristan wrote: "I'm surprised by how much I enjoyed a book about someone I would probably hate in real life.

I also am uncomfortable with how many times descriptions of George reminded me of myself."

Exactly! Yikes. It's not so hard to imagine turning out as George.

The part that really stuck with me was the brief conversation about the single-A ballplayer.... I've used that in conversation dozens of times already.

I am trying to give this one a fair shot, but I cannot stand when authors feel the need to continuously name drop brands and events as a shortcut to clue the reader to the year the book is set. I'm fine with the September 11th reference because it is woven into the story, but the Friendster reference and using AirBnB instead of just saying "in the fall of 2008" is too much. It also only works if I as the reader buys into the premise that the characters are on the cutting edge with it comes to technology, and so far I'm not so sure.

Finished this one just after midnight so it's my first book of the year! It's hard to separate my feelings about George from the book overall.

I think I'm enjoying a WMFuN? George is an utterly unsympathetic character (of course he was a philosophy major!*) and I am utterly involved in his frustrating life.

* I majored in philosophy and, yeah.

Alison wrote: "I think I'm enjoying a WMFuN? George is an utterly unsympathetic character (of course he was a philosophy major!*) and I am utterly involved in his frustrating life.

* I majored in philosophy and,..."

I'm reminded of....

"do you have any means at all? Or perhaps you intend to undertake some occupation or other? Excuse me for being so - "

"I beg you sir, I perfectly appreciate your question, and I do understand it. For the moment I have no means whatever and also, for the moment, no occupation; though I need one. [...] the only money I have left now is a few kopecks. It is true that I have one business affair and I need advice, but -"

"Tell me, how do you intend to live in the meantime and what are your plans?" asked the general.

"I wanted to do work of some sort."

"Oh, so you are a philosopher! But, after all, are you aware of having any talents, or any aptitudes whatever, that is to say of the sort by which you can earn your daily bread? Once again, excuse me - "

"Oh don't apologize. No, I don't"

--Dostoevsky, from =The Idiot=

Tim wrote: ""Oh, so you are a philosopher! But, after all, are you aware of having any talents, or any aptitudes whatever, that is to say of the sort by which you can earn your daily bread? Once again, excuse me - "

"Oh don't apologize. No, I don't"..."

That hits a little close to home, lol. But it is the perfect major for the person who is too curious about everything to narrow things down.

I finished the book this morning and I thought it was excellent. Giving the last chapter to Jenny was a great way to end the book.

Alison wrote: "Tim wrote: ""Oh, so you are a philosopher!..."
That hits a little close to home, lol. ..."

Some of my best friends are philosophers....

Glad you liked The Book of George, despite the WMFuN. I thought it was pretty great, too. One of my faves.

Please tell me what I was supposed to enjoy about this book, other than the occasional well-turned phrase.

Phyllis wrote: "Please tell me what I was supposed to enjoy about this book, other than the occasional well-turned phrase."

I don't know, well-turned phrases seem reward enough to me.

But...I guess I think it's in the way we see the cost of George's unconsidered self-regard.

Perhaps you've never known someone who, like George in his quiet way, believes he (because while it isn't exclusive, it is mostly "he") is somehow specially destined for greatness.

I can't help but twin this book with =Liars=, except that in this case, the story is told from John's point of view and Jenny, the Jane to this book's George, gets wise to him.

His egoism isn't quite the same as John's, but it has a similar source. They are both, in Jane's words "a bottomless pit of entitlement." But John is more manipulative, and able to make Jane carry the burden for him. George ends up living the consequences because Jenny, despite herself, can see him for who he is.

But that's just the story, and really, it is the way it is told (the well-turned phrases) that kept me going.

Obviously YMMV. And I have George and Jenny getting knocked out in the first round by John and Jane, though I would have liked to see them in the quarterfinals (instead of either =Beautyland= or =Great Expectations=; but it's a pleasure this year to feel like the quarterfinals can be so crowded with contenders!), so....

Alison wrote: "I finished the book this morning and I thought it was excellent. Giving the last chapter to Jenny was a great way to end the book."

Jenny could have and would have done better.
While I found the writing good, I don't care about George and the millions of dull over rated white men like him. They're impossible to escape.

Audra wrote: "While I found the writing good, I don't care about George and the millions of dull over rated white men like him. They're impossible to escape...."

Yes, WMFuNs are ubiquitous, the mediocre white man redemption novel has saturated the market, which is why this one was such a joy to read, for me at least.

UNPOPULAR OPINION ALERT!
I do not find George unlikable at all! He may be mediocre but he’s not overrated- he was never given a leg up even with all his connections because he doesn’t have ambition.

Here's an even more unpopular opinion: Jenny is way worse than George! She never has the courage to ask for what she wants but berates George for not giving it to her. I’m glad she had the backbone to finally leave but I don’t see how the fact that he wasn’t the person she wanted him to be was in any way George’s fault.

My opinion, George is not a hero, but I found a lot about him that was relatable. His big missteps where he got a lot of scolding , like making the pancakes on moving day, were perhaps not well thought out, but the reaction by his mother broke my heart. I think he did the best he could with the upbringing he was given.

Also, I loved it when he keyed that asshole's car.

Beverly wrote: "UNPOPULAR OPINION ALERT!
I do not find George unlikable at all! He may be mediocre but he’s not overrated- he was never given a leg up even with all his connections because he doesn’t have ambitio..."

I disagree! But this is why I love this tournament and this group here. I do see your point about Jenny, she stuck with him far too long and lived with resentment when she could have just moved on. And George was never malicious, just oblivious.

Beverly wrote: "Here's an even more unpopular opinion: Jenny is way worse than George! She never has the courage to ask for what she wants but berates George for not giving it to her. I’m glad she had the backbone to finally leave but I don’t see how the fact that he wasn’t the person she wanted him to be was in any way George’s fault."

My biggest complaint about this book was how unrealistic Jenny's character was. Not that I can't imagine someone tolerating George. I can't imagine a LAWYER tolerating George. The profession attracts a certain type of person, and that is almost never someone as passive and tolerant as Jenny.

But Tristan, there are so few male elementary school teachers for female lawyers to marry.

I haven’t finished this yet, but I’m about 80% of the way through and just got to the part where Carrie eviscerates George for being a mopey mediocre white dude who never tries anything because he’s afraid of trying and being average. And holy cow, was that scene satisfying.

I’m enjoying the writing and the depiction of George is well done, but it’s so well done that I find it almost unreadable. He’s such an unpleasant protagonist that I would have DNF’d the book if I weren’t reading it for the tournament. I think that brief scene made working my way through this book worth it so far.

Alison wrote: "Beverly wrote: "UNPOPULAR OPINION ALERT!
I do not find George unlikable at all! He may be mediocre but he’s not overrated- he was never given a leg up even with all his connections because he does..."

Lawyer who dates men here, and a cursory review of what I've tolerated over the course of my dating history may very well SHOCK you.

Back atcha, Zach. I am also a lawyer who dates men, and I am embarrassed to admit all that I have tolerated in my relationships. I like to think the world is a better place because of all of the educational/career/freetime oppotunities that I have provided to the men in my life (and their children, and their parents). I wish I had known far fewer Georges; which may explain my lack of enjoyment of this novel.

Another lawyer here, albeit one who is cis-het and thus dates women, and I have definitely put up with a great many things in my dating past as well. Jenny is not alone, lol.

And, while, yes, the profession does seem to self-select for certain types of personalities primarily, there are all kinds of people that do the job and all kinds of partners we involve ourselves with as in every other course of life and career trajectory. I would also say, at least anecdotally (and not in reference to my wife/partner but rather to others in the past), that sometimes one has enough of adversarial strivers in the course of one's worklife to where a less driven, more chill (even if frustratingly complacent/underachieving in the long term as George arguably is) home life can be refreshingly non-confrontational.

Zachary wrote: "Alison wrote: "Beverly wrote: "UNPOPULAR OPINION ALERT!
I do not find George unlikable at all! He may be mediocre but he’s not overrated- he was never given a leg up even with all his connections ..."

And but also, no objection to some of those SHOCKING stories making their way into your always-excellent bookish newsletter, Zach! ;)

Adam wrote: " a less driven, more chill (even if frustratingly complacent/underachieving in the long term as George arguably is) home life can be refreshingly non-confrontational. ..."

I think the problem of George is not his complacency or under-achievement, it is his persistent sense that he's too good for whatever has come his way.

Tim wrote: "I think the problem of George is not his complacency or under-achievement, it is his persistent sense that he's too good for whatever has come his way..."

Yes, it's the unearned entitlement that turns him from a nice enough slacker in the mold of Cyrus from Martyr! and into someone far less charming.

Enjoying this a lot. But kind of embarrassed that every time I read a funny George part to my wife, she recognizes it too well. I'm a George with 5% more ambition and 90% less sense of humor.

I couldn't stop laughing when George wanted to make the lemon ricotta pancakes, thinking it would be such a nice gesture for the family, but ended up pissing them off instead because he wasn't thinking about how much time it would take to clean up! The book has its moments, but its humor is in the style of A Confederacy of Dunces that one either finds funny or immature.

Phyllis wrote: "Back atcha, Zach. I am also a lawyer who dates men, and I am embarrassed to admit all that I have tolerated in my relationships. I like to think the world is a better place because of all of the ed..."

Phyllis and Zach, should you wish to retain my services to dump any future Georges that you date, I'll handle it pro bono for you.

Thank you, Tristin. That is a handy thing to have in my back pocket. 🤣

And sorry about the misspelling of your name, Tristan. I forgot to spellcheck.

Phyllis wrote: "And sorry about the misspelling of your name, Tristan. I forgot to spellcheck."

At least you didn't misspell it TRISTRAM.

But, of all the names in the universe, he had the most unconquerable aversion for Tristram;—he had the lowest and most contemptible opinion of it of anything in the world,—thinking it could possibly produce nothing in rerum naturâ, but what was extremely mean and pitiful: So that in the midst of a dispute on the subject, in which, by the bye, he was frequently involved,——he would sometimes break off in a sudden and spirited Epiphonema, or rather Erotesis, raised a third, and sometimes a full fifth above the key of the discourse,——and demand it categorically of his antagonist, Whether he would take upon him to say, he had ever remembered,——whether he had ever read,—or even whether he had ever heard tell of a man, called Tristram, performing anything great or worth recording?—No,—he would say,—Tristram!—The thing is impossible.