Book Snails Book Group discussion

Happy holidays fellow snails!

Pien and I are at it again, gearing up for a new buddy read in the new year. We have chosen The Shell Collector by Anthony Doerr and we're planning to start January 12th.

Length: 219 pages (much more reasonable than our last behemoth!)

Goodreads rating: 3.99 stars

Goodreads summary:
The exquisitely crafted stories in Anthony Doerr's acclaimed debut collection take readers from the African coast to the pine forests of Montana to the damp moors of Lapland, charting a vast physical and emotional landscape. Doerr explores the human condition in all its varieties-metamorphosis, grief, fractured relationships, and slowly mending hearts-and conjures nature in both its beautiful abundance and crushing power. Some of his characters contend with tremendous hardship; some discover unique gifts; all are united by their ultimate deference to the mysteries of the universe outside themselves.

We would love for others join us!!!

This book contains 8 short stories. The potential reading breakdowns I'm considering include:
1. One story a week for 8 weeks
2. Two stories a week for 4 weeks

Personally, I prefer option two because, though we are snails, eight weeks is a long time to spread out such a short book. But I appreciate any input others have to offer!

Two stories a week would be good by me! And I could have the book from January 7th 👍🏻

Let's start the week of Sunday, January 12th.
We'll read two stories a week for four weeks.

Reading Breakdown

Week 1
1/12-1/18
* The Shell Collector
* The Hunter's Wife

Week 2
1/19-1/25
* So Many Chances
* For a Long Time This Was Griselda's Story

Week 3
1/26-2/1
* July Fourth
* The Caretaker

Week 4
2/2-2/8
* A Tangle by the Rapid River
* Mkondo

WEEK ONE

Discussion questions for The Shell Collector:

1. The shell collector leads a solitary life. How does his blindness shape his understanding of the world and his relationships? In what ways do isolation and connection intersect in the story?

2. The story explores the therapeutic and destructive power of nature. How does Doerr use the natural world to explore themes of healing and mortality? What is the significance of the protagonist's blindness in shaping his perception of the world and his interaction with nature?

I have finished the first short story and used my old friend, ChatGPT, to generate some questions to guide our discussion. I don’t expect us to answer all of them directly, but I figured they would provide a good jumping off point to help us process our thoughts.

I typically don’t care for short stories because they often lack the depth of character and plot development I prefer, but I enjoyed this one. I imagine that, for someone who is blind, the chaos of a noisy world can feel overwhelming. So it was understandable that (view spoiler)[the blind shell collector seemed content with his small, isolated world consisting of him, his dog, and his shells. But then we witness how his life becomes richer with the addition of human connection, both through the instruction he provides to the young boys before they are taken away, and later, through Seema’s daily companionship during his shell collecting. I also appreciated the symmetry in how the shell collector saves Seema’s life, only for her to later save his. (hide spoiler)]

I think the story clearly explores both the therapeutic and destructive power of nature through the shells. They are objects of beauty, (view spoiler)[bringing the shell collector a sense of calm and purpose as he gathers and classifies them. Additionally, we witness how the toxins in some shells can both heal illness, as seen with Nancy and Seema, as well as cause harm, as when Josh dies and the shell collector himself falls gravely ill. (hide spoiler)]

Story one:
How well put, your ideas of this story give me the depth I was looking for while reading. I understand the duality of the shells and the ‘message’ of the blindness, but I was looking for (view spoiler)[ the actual meaning of this story. Or actually more of an ending that made the meaning clear. I love stories that end in a way that leaves you breathless, and this writer knows how to do that. But this story… Why did he get so ill and got better and got on with his life? Where’s the growth in that? And why did he let it happen that people messed with his shell collection, crashing them with their feet? Why not saying something? It was all so left aside.
But of course, it’s a taste thing. I didn’t really like it.
Also, personally I’m not good with long descriptions of nature. He writes beautifully, but I like conversations, feelings, relationships. So this story was not my taste. (hide spoiler)]

The hunters wife
This was an interesting story about I think (view spoiler)[ how love can bond two complete opposites. They do love each other intensely, but are so different. He loves spring, summer and autumn, with all the activity that comes with work, she loves the silence of winter. He sees the physical things in life, she the spiritual. (That’s maybe why she is introduced working with this magician when he first sees her.)
And although they don’t see each other for twenty years, the love and respect is still there.
And in the end, he opens up to her ideas. Maybe because he is older now?
Did I like the story? I think, like you said, I don’t really enjoy short stories. And I want more of an ending. These stories both read like I was under water, that silence was there. Do I make sense? I need sounds, smells, colour.
Well, I have to say I was up a big part this night with our sick dog so I might just be a bit woozy writing this…😑 (He seems to be doing much better now) (hide spoiler)]

I think I understand what you mean about feeling like you were underwater. The story lacks a permeating richness.

I did not care for The Hunter's Wife at all. I was expecting a story centered around nature but, instead, there was a heavy focus on the supernatural. I just couldn't connect to it.

I was surprised, however, that (view spoiler)[the wife did not express any distaste in the Hunter's hunting. I would have expected that, with her abilities and the connections she formed when touching living beings, she would have objected to her husband killing animals. (hide spoiler)]

Just finished So Many Chances and it's my favorite story of the collection so far.

Initially, I expected (view spoiler)[Dorotea would transform from a "nobody" into a "somebody" after her encounter with the boy. We see her resolve to become a new Dorotea. She buys equipment for fly-fishing, eager and excited to practice with the boy. But then he disappears. And she learns that her father is, in fact, still a janitor and not a shipbuilder as he claimed. So her visions of a new Dorotea are extinguished. Transformation is not possible. Yet, another opportunity arises. The man from the hardware store gives her a second lesson in fly-fishing. His approach is different from the boy's, but still effective. And so, "she realizes that new or old she is still Dorotea, will always be Dorotea, and that there are still plenty of chances left in this world." She perseveres and eventually catches her first fish.

Though short stories lack the depth of development I prefer, I appreciated how this one conveyed themes of optimism, disappointment/despair, and the importance of persistence in a way that felt complete and satisfying. (hide spoiler)]

Erin wrote: "Just finished So Many Chances and it's my favorite story of the collection so far.

Initially, I expected Dorotea would transform from a "nobody" into a "somebody" after her encounter with the boy..."
May I join your buddy read? I realize that I'm a bit late,

Of course you can! The more the merrier 😃. Do you have the book or do you need to get it first?

I'm going to pick it up this morning and plan to read the stories for this week (19th-25th) will that work?

Yes, sounds great!

Yay! We are thrilled for you to join us Fred!

So many chances was also my favorite until now (haven’t read the fourth yet).
I loved how she (view spoiler)[ immediately saw a chance in them moving to another place, and kept looking and trying for luck. How she kept her belief that things would be better there, no matter what happened was so beautiful. And also her realism, so different from her father. He also beliefs there must be more to this life, but he lies to himself and his family and only acts like he became something more. She is brave enough to see her situation as it is, and still goes on.
And then mom. The symbol of pessimism and stagnation. Having her around (although she is in her way a caring person) makes it so much harder to keep the belief. Well done Dorothea!
(hide spoiler)]
I also liked this better because of (view spoiler)[ the conversations and emotions, no ‘under water’ feelings with this one! ;) (hide spoiler)]

Oh, great insights, Pien! I love the comparison you made between father and daughter, how they (view spoiler)[both desire change, but the daughter aims to achieve it truly while the father only pretends to have achieved it. (hide spoiler)]

I just finished reading For a Long Time This Was Griselda's Story, and I really enjoyed it, maybe even more than So Many Chances. And what a perfect title! (view spoiler)[Not only did Griselda’s story linger in the minds of the townspeople for a long time, but her decision to leave had a profound and lasting impact on her family as well. It was almost as if, by pursuing the life she wanted, she robbed her mother and sister of their own stories. I was so glad when Rosemary finally found the strength to let go, move on, and start living for herself, writing her own story at last! (hide spoiler)]

I have a quiet house all to myself today, so I took advantage and read the first story for next week, July Fourth.

I did not care for this one. Though I laughed out loud at (view spoiler)[AMERICAN CANCER, NO THANK YOU, I also agreed wholeheartedly with the schoolgirls' assessment of the Americans as FOOLS. I thought their wager was ridiculous and, not only did I lack sympathy for their struggles to catch the largest fish, I also found myself hoping they would fail. Moreover, the last line of the story, "they were Americans, they had already won," left me feeling confused. How had they already won? (hide spoiler)]

Erin wrote: "I have a quiet house all to myself today, so I took advantage and read the first story for next week, July Fourth.

I did not care for this one. Though I laughed out loud at [spoilers removed]"
I finished "So Many Chances" yesterday, lots of ideas to bat around concerning opportunities vs challenges. I enjoyed the story, and I liked Dorotea's dad.

The Caretaker landed in the middle for me. I didn’t like it as much as So Many Chances or For a Long Time This Was Griselda’s Story, but I enjoyed it more than The Shell Collector, The Hunter’s Wife, and July Fourth.

I think the story illustrates how, sometimes, it takes grief and hardship to force someone to appreciate what they’ve taken for granted and make a change. (view spoiler)[Joseph took his mother for granted. He failed to contribute to their financial stability through honest means and he didn’t see the sense in caring for their home. Only after losing both his mother and their home does he start to realize the error of his ways, though it isn’t until after he neglects his caretaking responsibilities in America that he truly begins to change.

I found it somewhat strange that Joseph chose to bury the hearts of the whales, though I understand it was a form of atonement for him, a way of recognizing those he failed to properly lay to rest, such as his mother and the man he killed.

I liked the relationship Joseph formed with Twyman’s daughter, though I wish there had been some sort of explanation regarding why she attempted suicide.

But the ending left me feeling hopeful. It seemed as though Joseph would finally return to his home, honor his mother’s memory, and care for both the house and the garden the way she would have wanted. (hide spoiler)]

Finished Griselda’s story, and what a good title indeed! I liked the read very much. I didn’t understand why Griselda would (view spoiler)[ leave so silently and suddenly. But I felt so sorry for Rosemary. It was a nice surprise how she spoke up for herself when Griselda had returned.
Again this is a story about opposites. The tall handsome sporty girl and the small fat girl. It’s a theme I guess, but does it has a meaning? (hide spoiler)]

*has = have

I think the stark contrast in the girls' physical appearances was fitting, as it mirrored their differing visions of happiness. (view spoiler)[Griselda seemed to love her life of adventure and spectacle, traveling the world and performing alongside the metal eater. Rosemary, on the other hand, was content with her simple, quiet life, sharing steady routines with her ordinary husband. Griselda sought excitement, but Rosemary sought comfort and consistency. (hide spoiler)]

Finished the Griselda story but I didn't care for it. July Fourth was not a very rewarding read either. I am halfway through The Shell Collector, and I like the theme of the Shell Collector overcoming obstacles and making the best of his situation. It looks like I've gotten mixed up on my reading schedule. I'll go to the back of class and get myself straightened out.

Fred wrote: "Finished the Griselda story but I didn't care for it. July Fourth was not a very rewarding read either. I am halfway through The Shell Collector, and I like the theme of the Shell Collector overcom..."

It sounds like you're catching up pretty well! The stories we planned to read this week are July Fourth and The Caretaker. I'm a teacher's pet who finishes her assignments early. 😉

Honestly, I'm excited to focus on the other books I'm reading throughout the rest of the week.

I'm curious to compare our rankings.

My rankings, updated 2/1:
1. For a Long Time This Was Griselda's Story
2. So Many Chances
3. The Caretaker
4. Mkondo
5. The Shell Collector
6. July Fourth
7. The Hunter's Wife
8. A Tangle by the Rapid River

As I’m the type of scholar who would never do anything more than asked for, I’ve only read four stories yet.
My ranking until now is:

1 So many chances
2 Griselda
3 The hunter’s wife
4 The shell collector

Short stories were never a favorite for me, but I never really tried either, so I was curious if I’d like this very much. Until now, it’s not great. I like to dive in a book deep, get to know everyone, have fascinating side stories, and live with the protagonist (that’s the word? The main person) for at least a week. How do you both feel about short stories now?

Yes, protagonist is the right word. 😊

I certainly prefer full length novels over short stories, but I do appreciate a well written short story. I actually have a collection of short stories by O. Henry that I was quite fond of when I was younger. Tales of O. Henry

Perhaps you're familiar with The Gift of the Magi? I think that might be his most famous one. It's a great story, however, my absolute favorite is The Last Leaf. In fact, now that I'm reflecting on it, I think it's due for a re-read!

Hi, Erin and Pien; I have been asking myself "what is a short story"? Who are the characters and are these characters interesting? Is there a plot? What's the point of the story, why did the writer take the time to write it? I would like to know both of your reactions to my questions. I have mostly read short stories from professional or recreational magazines where the answers to these questions was self evident. I started out this winter with some novellas by Jane Smiley. So far ;So Many Chances is my favorite from this collection, but I think the author missed an opportunity by not writing more about Dorotea's mother, I didn't get the message (if there was one) in the story about Griselda, July Fourth left me wondering how a group of business executives could be so incompetent when it comes to planning fishing trips. Maybe that was the author's point. Tangle By the Rapid River told me nothing about Mulligan's home life or his wife. I see a missed opportunity there for a deeper, richer and more interesting story. I'm almost through Mkondo and I'm enjoying it. I haven't started The Caretaker.

I just finished the Caretaker. What sorrow and horrible events! Although the ending was somewhat touching and soothing, And it was, again, written very well, I didn’t enjoy the read. Too sad, too harsh.
Fred, those are good questions i ask myself now as well. Is it about the plot? About the characters? Why did he write these? You’re right I think about the theme ‘overcoming difficulties’ in all the stories (I only have to read the last two), but what’s the message then? And in some stories I feel like I get to know the characters, like in Chances, but in others, like the fishing story, not at all.
Then it’s just about the story.
I didn’t get July fourth at all, by the way. They managed (view spoiler)[ to win but yet they didn’t because they couldn’t take a picture. And that’s the end of the story. (hide spoiler)]
I found stories from O. Henry on Gutenberg online, Erin, so I’ll definitely try some, especially your favorite!

And now the last two stories of Doerr. I’m still quite eager to read them, but I was so much more enthusiastic about his later novels!

Wow! A Tangle by the Rapid River was remarkably terrible.
Since short stories don’t allow much room for character development or complex plots, I usually expect them to convey a strong message. For a Long Time This Was Griselda’s Story emphasized the importance of taking responsibility for your own happiness. So Many Chances highlighted the value of perseverance and never giving up on your goals. A Tangle by the Rapid River, however, seemed pointless. I was surprised when (view spoiler)[Mulligan stupidly gave his wife’s niece the newspaper with the letter inside, though I can accept that he was distracted and eager to get rid of her. But the ending? It made absolutely no sense! (hide spoiler)]

I have another book to pick up from the library and would like to return this one when I make the trip, so I just finished Mkondo. It was okay. It was obvious to me that Naima would be (view spoiler)[miserable in Ohio. I actually laughed at her belief that Ward was offering her “something glamorous” because, as someone who has paid multiple visits to Ohio to visit family, I can assure you—it is anything but glamorous. Did Ward truly think Naima would be happy there? Perhaps he was just too focused on his own desires to have her as his wife?

I also didn’t understand why Naima bought the hawks only to keep them in the basement, though I believe their captivity in a place they didn’t belong mirrored Naima’s own situation—stuck in a life that wasn’t right for her. This was later reinforced when the author writes, “like her orphaned hawks, she would know no home except where she was kept, hooded and tied, against her will.” (hide spoiler)]

Overall, I believe the central theme of this story is the importance of patience. Naima (view spoiler)[rushed into marriage, expecting excitement in Ohio, but ended up disappointed. She eventually finds joy in photography and, moreover, in learning to wait for the perfect shot rather than forcing something that isn’t meant to be. The lesson in patience is also evident at the conclusion, when Ward finally finds Naima’s house after weeks of searching and, instead of barging in immediately, he waits quietly for her to emerge from the darkroom in her own time. (hide spoiler)]

What did you ultimately make of Mkondo, Fred?
And how do you feel about it all, Pien? Do you have any regrets upon finishing?

*I have updated the rankings in my previous post to reflect my final order.

I reread The Last Leaf by O. Henry today. I’m pretty sure it’s been over a decade since I last read it. It’s a sad story, but I still enjoyed it. I think it illustrates the power of a self-fulfilling prophecy… if you believe you can, you will; if you believe you can’t, you won’t. Johnsy (view spoiler)[was convinced she would die when the last leaf fell, but when it never did, she realized she had been foolish and chose to live. It was tragic that Behrman died instead. Though, in the end, he finally created his masterpiece: the painted leaf that gave Johnsy the will to recover. (hide spoiler)]

If either of you care to read the story, you can find it online here: https://www.eastoftheweb.com/short-st...
I’d love to hear your thoughts. I can't help but wonder if my fond memories of the story influenced my perspective, making me like it more than I otherwise might if I had read it for the first time at this stage in my life.

By now, I've read all the stories. I enjoyed Mkondo, but I don't have anything to add to your observations,Erin. I agree with all of it. The only thing I am looking for, is why "flow" was so important. To me it seems like the actual (view spoiler)[ solution, for both of them to return to Afrika, was the opposite of 'going with the flow'. (hide spoiler)] But I'm probably overthinking things here.
I actually enjoyed Tangle by the rapid river. This is how (view spoiler)[ the truth comes out, isn't it? By silly, actually stupid, mistakes like these. But I don't believe it would take someone so long to realize that he made such a big mistake with giving away the paper.
The ending, staying where he was, not moving, sounds to me like he is trying to accept there's no way back. But right now he isn't ready to face the music yet. This is the only not ending end of a story that I understand. ;) (hide spoiler)]

No, I don't regret this read at all! It does affirm my feeling that short stories aren't what I like best (but O Henry gets his chance). But Doerr writes so beautifully, that I enjoyed it anyways.

My top 8
1. So many chances
2. Mkondo
3. Griselda
4. Tangle by the rapid river
5. The hunter's wife
6. The shell collector
7. The caretaker
8. July fourth

Looking back, for me the main theme was maybe 'acceptance'. Does someone believe things can be better and does not accept the situation, or does one accept things are very hard but never gives up.

My story ratings;1-The Shell Collector, 2-Mkondo, 3-The Hunter's Wife, 4-So Many Chances, 5 The Caretaker, 6- The Tangle by Rapid River, &-Griselda, and 8-July Fourth. I enjoyed reading your opinions, and sharing mine with you both

I appreciate your insight on Tangle by the Rapid River, Pien. I no longer have the book to revisit the passage, but your explanation makes a lot of sense. In addition to being unready to "face the music,” do you think he might have been punishing himself as well?

Thank you both for being part of this buddy read! It’s always fun and enlightening to hear different perspectives. And it’s fascinating to see how our rankings vary. We all disliked July Fourth, but the one I liked best was nearly Fred’s least favorite!

I enjoyed the buddy read, it was nice to hear from you both, it's been a long time since I've had a chance to talk about a book with people outside my immediate family, and it was refreshing.

I liked it too, maybe do another one in the future?

Please keep me in mind .