The Mookse and the Gripes discussion

Under the Eye of the Big Bird by Hiromi Kawakami translated by Asa Yoneda (Granta Books),

This one and On the Calculation of Volume were the only two from the longlist that I've already read. I have mixed feelings about this one. I will probably re-read it if it makes the shortlist.

I remember not being sure exactly what the author was trying to do until I got to the next to the last story, which I thought was the heart of the book.

Halfway in this one, getting David Mitchell and Clara and the Sun vibes, but that's probably because I hardly read SF...

Ruben wrote: "Halfway in this one, getting David Mitchell and Clara and the Sun vibes, but that's probably because I hardly read SF..."

Now THAT sounds delicious to me!

This is a novel in short stories. My mathematical side was interested to see an interview in which the author explained how she sees the difference mathematically

NB this is ChatGPT's translation of an indirect report of the interview so third hand:

What was particularly interesting in the interview was Kawakami’s perspective on capturing “moments” within her literary world. The world she weaves—one that is fleeting, permeating, and ultimately dissolving—is born from her drive to capture various sensations of passing moments. She referenced the works of Shinichi Fukuoka in relation to her creative approach of “trying to show things that vanish in an instant.” Fukuoka describes a biological view in which, although the molecules composing the body appear constant, they are actually in a state of ceaseless turnover, changing instant by instant. Kawakami remarked that this concept resonates deeply with her own creative awareness. That is, her literary world is imbued with the consciousness of grasping ever-changing moments within an apparently unchanging whole, a characteristic that is vividly inscribed and overflows throughout her works.

This obsession with "moments" also extends to Kawakami's creative process. For her, as someone who preferred writing short stories, a short story involves carefully examining a particular moment in detail and capturing the changes within that moment (which she compared to differentiation in mathematics). In contrast, a novel is a method of constructing an overall picture on a macroscopic scale, expressing the accumulation of the flow of time (which she likened to integration). Because of this, while she could fully savor the joy of writing through short stories, she found writing novels to be more challenging. Regarding this creative struggle, she shared the behind-the-scenes story of how she eventually became able to write novels—by layering dozens of individual short stories together to form a full-length work.For her, as someone who preferred writing short stories, a short story involves carefully examining a particular moment in detail and capturing the changes within that moment (which she compared to differentiation in mathematics). In contrast, a novel is a method of constructing an overall picture on a macroscopic scale, expressing the accumulation of the flow of time (which she likened to integration). Because of this, while she could fully savor the joy of writing through short stories, she found writing novels to be more challenging. Regarding this creative struggle, she shared the behind-the-scenes story of how she eventually became able to write novels—by layering dozens of individual short stories together to form a full-length work.

Agree that the next to last story does rather redeem what up to then felt a collection of whimsical stories. Not going to be on my shortlist I think.

Ruben wrote: "Halfway in this one, getting David Mitchell and Clara and the Sun vibes, but that's probably because I hardly read SF..."

I get what you mean Ruben! I was rather meh about the book, but I felt it really worked well in the end and coalesced into a series of philosophical questions about what humanity means. Is the execution perfect? Far from it. But I loved the daring and having read Toward Eternity, which takes similar macroscopic views of what the future might be, by judge Anton Hur I well understand the place of this book on the longlist!

Yes it was rather reminiscent of Anton Hur’s own book

I’d hoped he’d use his influence to promote K-lot particularly Nobel Prize winners.

Yeah, the book really comes together at the end. I was so happy with the second to last story which kinda spills out everything. Up until that point the stories were solid but quite abstract because of lack of detail or skipping decades in a matter of paragraphs. I liked the almost mechanical writing in short sentences which fit the vibe of the book/characters well. Some stories were a bit too nostalgic/precious for my taste ("were you ever in love?") but I can see why they’re there.

I guess it’s a book I appreciate more afterwards than the experience of reading it? Also think a second reading of this could be interesting as things would fall more into place. In the middle I thought I’d be more negative on it but all in all really appreciate what it was trying to do and that the world building was well thought out. The structure actually makes a lot of sense.

I'm surprised this one made it onto the list, it's decent enough as a plane/beach read but it doesn't really stand up to closer scrutiny. The various elements don't really fit together, the social/cultural/scientific elements are underdeveloped, and ultimately fairly conventional.

I'm afraid I lost interest by the time the "aha!" chapters came around. Those chapters themselves also felt a bit underwhelming to me, but perhaps I had built them up to be more than they were meant to be because I knew they were coming.

I've read three of the stories and am finding them enjoyable in a fairly mild way... we'll see how that goes.

Speaking of translations in the other threads, I'm not totally sold on this one. It generally reads cleanly but then there will be some strange catchphrase. This morning I read "but it was beyond her ken," and thought wow, that's a turn of phrase I have not heard in a while.

That's a phrase I'd happily use - and indeed do use. Often used in the context of something Barbie and her female friends get but not her other half.

Oh well, maybe it's still common in the UK? The last usage of it that I can think of is the song "Sixteen Going on Seventeen" in The Sound of Music... so going back a bit!

Emily wrote: "Oh well, maybe it's still common in the UK? The last usage of it that I can think of is the song "Sixteen Going on Seventeen" in The Sound of Music... so going back a bit!"

Well still used in the UK by gentlemen of a certain age

Though it was as much as excuse for my (rather lame) joke

That phrase caught my attention too, Emily!

it's not necessarily a phrase I would commonly use, but it's certainly normal enough that it isn't jarring to me (and I suspect other British readers).

Slightly underwhelmed with this.

Lots of rather whimsical speculative fiction chapters which reminded me of Ishiguro (when he decided to use children’s books as his genre trapping) or maybe a little of Atwood (well post her peak) - at least there was some fun in piecing together what had happened using the interlinked stories.

And then there is literally a chapter where a the author explains the book in painstaking detail - I felt this rather cheapened the experience.

Now if it turned out that chapter was written by an AI agent who the author fed the book and then asked to write an explanation of the novel - that would be very clever indeed.

But I don’t think that was possible when this was written in 2016 and that’s another issue - the books treatment of AI’s evolution in that penultimate chapter (which is at least original content) feels very dated already.

I did like the last chapter though but a bit surprised this made a literary longlist (although Anton Hur).

I thoroughly enjoyed it in the end. I think in a sense science fiction novels are always put in the category of being not literary (which is probably also the reason a writer like Ursula K. Le Guin was not recognised much during her life), and from that perspective I think it is brave how the Booker went for this novel. I fully get the point of AI being not in the book, but I think the question it raises is if even with more technological prowess we can actually escape our nature and move further as a species. Kawakami answers seems to be that this is impossible in a culture that is obsessed with uniformity and sameness and that is detached from the natural world, which I find a more interesting take than space colonisation.

In terms of books that this reminded me of I would list: How High We Go in the Dark by Sequoia Nagamatsu
Dune in the ultra long take on humanity.
Or Ilium by Dan Simmons, which has humanity post apocalypse being herded.
Or the last part of Seveneves by Neal Stephenson that has humanity evolving after a major disaster. International Booker Prize judge Anton Hur his own work Toward Eternity and Foundation by Isaac Asimov and Star Maker by Olaf Stapledon come to mind as well, as does long listed Booker novel Love and Other Thought Experiments by Sophie Ward.

Full review here: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Brilliant review - and well made points.

On this - "in a sense science fiction novels are always put in the category of being not literary" - there is the counterpoint which often gets made by science fiction writers that the sci-fi novels that get picked for literary prizes are those by non sci-fi authors, and often ones which claim not to genre.

That led to the 2015 seeming spat between Ishiguro and Le Guin - albeit one they resolved in a friendly fashion.

https://www.ursulakleguin.com/blog/95...

https://www.theguardian.com/books/201...

https://www.ursulakleguin.com/blog/96...

Great review Henk - as well as really useful summary of the book.

I believe I was more coming from the it’s not very good sci-fi viewpoint than the I hate sci fi one.

I much much preferred Ward, Nagamatsu (in the novels you mention) and more in his earlier works Stephenson (who was of course a visionary in Arthur C Clarke style - popularising the concept of an avatar and of the metaverse) or Asimov (who was similarly visionary) or Simmons (in Hyperion Cantos which Paul and at one point considered naming our first house after).

For me this was not close to any of them which is why I was surprised it was on a literary prize list.

Of course all incredibly subjective and with my bias but I think I was less focused on genre than the particular book.

Paul wrote: "Brilliant review - and well made points.

On this - "in a sense science fiction novels are always put in the category of being not literary" - there is the counterpoint which often gets made by sc..."

Amazing, I never knew how Le Guin and Ishiguro clashed, so interesting! Appreciate all the thoughts and I hundred % see how people could feel the novel didn't work, I had the same response to The Emissary/The Last Children of Tokyo by fellow Japanese author Yōko Tawada, which engages in a sense with similar themes but didn't at all work for me.

Thanks Henk. This is when Goodreads needs a Like button for comments.

The nice thing with Le Guin and Ishiguro is they were clearly upset to have offended each other and tried to come to a common ground. Unlike say Adichie and Emezi from the Women’s Prize who seem to keep stirring each other.

Or you and me!!!

Finished this on the weekend and I think I agree with most here on being fairly underwhelmed.

I actually particularly disliked the second-last story. An example of what in writing circles they call the "info-dump"... and not even a logical one, just glossing over all the hows and whys. I think all that information could have been woven in much more organically in the existing stories. I did like the last story however, with its suggestion of the infinite.

The other thing I liked was the structure, teasing out the final shape of the book in drips and drabs, the repeating character names, while confusing, did reinforce this. And I might have liked it better if I weren't so allergic to "whimsical" narratives.

Completely agree on that penultimate chapter (and the partial rescue in the last one).

I think I disagree. While the penultimate chapter was very info-dumpy, the last really lost me. I liked the book better before, even though the structure did remind me quite a bit of cloud atlas.

To be fair the last 2 chapters were somewhat unnecessary. The penultimate basically afirmed everything that was implicit and the last one was superficial. This book reminded me a lot of Vanishing World. It's a good book, but I was left wanting more.

My thoughts https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Fair review Carla!

Thank you Henk :)