Catching up on Classics (and lots more!) discussion

This is the thread for the March 2025 buddy read of Franz Kafka- The Complete Short Stories.

What stories are we going to consider since many are reading from different texts?

Just came to look for this. I will try to read these short stories and finish the two ongoing books i have, but not planning much else for March. But these particularly are a priority because the book i have is on a shorter loan than anything else. If i cant complete the full collection, does it still count for my challenge? 😅 (dont answer that. I think i already know)

But yeah, so is there any particular order to read these? Cuz mine might be ordered differently.

I'll try to read a few stories in the end of the month after I see which stories others are reading. I'm not going to read the whole book because I have a very busy reading month.

April wrote: "Just came to look for this. I will try to read these short stories and finish the two ongoing books i have, but not planning much else for March. But these particularly are a priority because the b..."

Klowey suggested the buddy read. Perhaps you could contact her to see which stories she will be reading first.

Are we reading all the stories or only the stories Kafka published?

I think the idea was chronological order.

Are we at least trying a single time to nominate some of the books?

The Complete Stories by Franz Kafka with forward by John Updike has a list of stories in the Goodreads blurb.

for myself, I'll be going through them in chronological order
I already did Contemplation last month with the group
also I've already read The Judgement and The Stoker

so I'll be starting with In The Penal Colony,

then moving on to A Country Doctor and A Hunger Artist

(plus I might also re-read Metamorphosis)

I suggest a time plan:

As far as I know these are the complet publiched works in cronological order:
(1914 / 1919) = written in 1914, printed in 1919

Contemplation (-1913): Feb

The Judgement (1912 / 1913): March 1-15

The Stoker (1912 / 1913): March 16-31

Metamorphosis (1914): April 1-15

In The Penal Colony (1914 / 1919): April 16-30

A Country Doctor (1916-1917): May

A Hunger Artist (1922) and
News paper items (incl "The Aeroplanes at Brescia" ) and
"Description of a Struggle" and
The Burrow : June

How does that look to you?

For reading purposes, considering everyone's freedom in wishing to read what they want, I have no desire to dictate.

For discussion purpose I suggest we impose a structure like J_Blueflower has suggested, perhaps amending it as others see fit. Otherwise the discussion can seem a bit cacophonic as people start posting thoughts on different stories. We have a little of that going on in our Cheever's stories discussion.


Part of the problem with Kafka is his recognition came later and the publications of his work are not in uniform order in various countries dependent on how scholars from those countries promoted the works. For example, in the U.S. English translation, "The Stoker," is not included in some complete story editions since it was incorporated into the the unfinished work, "Amerika," as the first chapter.

Needless how we choose to do things, we should get to it.

"Shamefaced Lanky and Impure in Heart", "Description of a Struggle," "Wedding Preparations in the Country," "The Judgment," "The Stoker," "The Metamorphosis," and "The Aeroplanes at Brescia" are all considered the earliest of Kafka's written stories according to Wikipedia. Some of these will be found in different works or under different labels. For, example, "Shamefaced Lanky and Impure in Heart," is included in Letters to Friends, Family, and Editors and "The Aeroplanes at Brescia" is in among the stories in theThe Penal Colony in Schocken publications.

If we go with J_Blueflower's ordering I would add "Description of a Struggle," to our March read as it is considered his earliest written story after "Shamefaced Lanky..".

I would still prefer to hear from Klowey and others on what they think.

Sam wrote: "....For example, in the U.S. English translation, "The Stoker," is not included in some complete story editions..."

It is in the Danish version. In the "Published" volume.

> "Description of a Struggle,"

Written in 1910. I have that in the "Unpublished" volume. I assumed we started with the published stories as it was those that Darren mentioned.

J_BlueFlower, I was hoping to read "The Judgement" so I'm glad that it's on your list for March. "The Stoker" also interests me.

"The Hunger Artist" was just a short story group read in September 2024 so most of us just read it. It's an interesting story, but I don't know how many would want to read it again so soon.
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

I've read "Description of a Struggle," and it's a surreal story with an unfinished quality. It's a famous early effort so I agree with Sam that it should be included sometime. Prague has a statue of Kafka based on this story:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statue_...

OK, I have updated the suggested time plan in message 9. Is it better? Other suggestions?

A Country Doctor is a book in itself. If someone nominate it in the new school nomination just now, it would fit with the suggested time plan.

PenalColony, CountryDoctor & HungerArtist total 144 pages in my edition so I'll be reading them all this month
although I'm happy to hold off commenting until later :o)

If there are only five of us commenting, it probably won't make much difference if whether we are discussing the same stories or not. Better to have more comments than less. I thought there would be more of us participating.

Sorry, I signed up for this BR but couldn't find the thread.
I'm joining!

Im here too, just cant always check in every day. I thought we were reading the short stories too, so i started with a couple of those tonight, but i like the discussion of chronological order, or whatever.

This is what i read tonight The Street Window, The Tradesman (this might be from Meditation), A Dream, and Up in the Gallery and the 2 short parables- Before the Law and An Imperial Message.

Before the Law, I saw that ending sort of coming. Funny!
Up in the Gallery was about an equestrine (sp?) and a horse... but wow! I really cant remember much else of anything without prompts! Oh, one was about a lift and the narrator is ?sad about (view spoiler)[oh, being alone, not having a progeny (hide spoiler)] right? Sorry i am not good at discussing the short ones.

P.s. my version has an asterick next to the stories written in his time. Description is not included, but i can still read it.

Sam wrote: "For reading purposes, considering everyone's freedom in wishing to read what they want, I have no desire to dictate.

For discussion purpose I suggest we impose a structure like J_Blueflower has su..."

Sorry to be late. There are a few places to get the complete works online free.
https://archive.org/details/franz-kaf...
I got my PDF here and it seemed safe:
https://www.pdfdrive.com/the-complete...
I believe this is a complete set of short stores, with an explanation at the beginning noting things like, what Sam said about "The Stoker".

I am up for anything the group wants to read since I intend to read all of his stories this year. My personal page has my status:
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Though I have to put a plug in for one of my favorites. As with many, it's unfinished. But I don't think in this case it really matters. The idea more or less doesn't need an ending. I suspect my love for it is very personal as, I identify with the "ambiguous burrowing animal" and his obsession to secure his space. I don't want to give too much away, but if you're into spoilers you can check out the wikipedia page.
wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Burrow_(short_...
And I'll add a few quotes from the story to give you an idea, that I don't think reveals too much: (view spoiler)[

"I have completed the construction of my burrow and it seems to be successful."

"...[T]he most beautiful thing about my burrow is the stillness. Of course, that is deceptive. At any moment it may be shattered and then all will be over. For the time being, however, the silence is with me."

(hide spoiler)]

The narrator of "The Burrow" sounds so much like Kafka, perhaps "Kafka, the person" more than "Kaffa, the writer." It's delightful, yet insightful, and I think it could be a good counterpoint to some of his more intense work, like "In the Penal Colony", which I would also recommend.

Sam wrote: "For reading purposes, considering everyone's freedom in wishing to read what they want, I have no desire to dictate.

For discussion purpose I suggest we impose a structure like J_Blueflower has su..."

I think In the Penal Colony is one of his best works. I'd be up for it.

Do you want a faster plan with 3 or 4 items per month?

"The Judgment"

I liked this one better than the stories in Contemplation. It seemed less cryptic. I liked the many shifts. Each shift putting the first part of the story in a new light.

Published in 1913. The narrator has a friend in Saint Petersburg. A bit distracting “Saint Petersburg” – a bad place to be if you like it quiet. The Russian revolution is just about to start here in 1917 and in further 25 years the worst siege in human history were a large part of the population starved to death. Seen from our point of view, we would be screaming “Get away! Now! RUN!”

(view spoiler)[
In the begin of the story we hear that a friend in St Petersburg is not doing well, and that the narrator is holding back information. This may be the case the other way around too: The friend is not telling all.

Who is reliable the father or the son?

The soiled underwear and really old news paper seems to suggest that it is not the father. But the son obeys him anyway. It could be that they are both unreliable?

From the readers point of view it seems absurd so blindly follow the father's judgement. Is the “the father” an actual person, or society or religion? The “father” being not just old but antiquated. Or.... it could just be me seeing something from an upcoming story.

Does the friend in St Petersburg really exist?

What I really like is how it seems that the story makes sense from the son's point of view and from the father's point of view - each of them have a few lines justifying themselves – but does not seem reasonable from the outside. Makes you wonder if you could make a similar mistake. (hide spoiler)]

re "The Judgment"
apparently Kafka wrote it in one sitting in 1912 and was first published in 1913, and I think he's on record as saying he was pretty pleased with it.
my review is here:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

J_BlueFlower wrote: "Do you want a faster plan with 3 or 4 items per month?"

If you're asking me, not necessarily because I have a list of 2025 reading and can juggle books. I'm fine with whatever the group wants.

I read the Judgment last night but dont really have any thoughts organized yet. All i recall is (view spoiler)[a son worried about his friend's perception of him and his father surprising him with the sad truth that his fear was right. (hide spoiler)] I will try to look at the other reviews tomorrow, and probably start Metamorphosis in the meanwhile.

This is my third reading, so only the first time did I experience the surprise of the slow turn halfway through. It was such a clever structure, to change perspective on what might be true, despite no change in the narrator, and still leave us uncertain at the end.

Great reviews by Darren and J_BlueFlower. I agree this story is a level up from his 'Mediations' but I can see how his way of expressing observations and emotions continues from those early snippets.

Following it with The Metamorphosis is perfect, as I see overlapping themes wrt the father figure's attitude toward the protagonist.

More later on both those subjects, gotta go to sleep.

Oh wow Klowey, interesting observations! I agree it was a level up. I also like Metamorphosis, although I havent finished it yet. It's a bit longer.

Darren wrote: "re "The Judgment"
apparently Kafka wrote it in one sitting in 1912 and was first published in 1913, and I think he's on record as saying he was pretty pleased with it.
my review is here:
https://ww..."

Yeah, i suppose there really isnt a clear ending, is there? I forget- (view spoiler)[did the son mail the letter in the end? He did, right? Or well, maybe it isnt necessary because his father told everything to his friend already?(view spoiler)[ (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)]

J_BlueFlower wrote: ""The Judgment"

I liked this one better than the stories in Contemplation. It seemed less cryptic. I liked the many shifts. Each shift putting the first part of the story in a new light.

Publishe..."

Wow! That is a lot to think about and i think i might have gotten a little overwhelmed with some of those questions by the end. Ha!
First off, you are right. Both the father and the son have good arguments, and to me, it seemed like the son was going to listen to his father over his own judgment or believe what his father to say is true. Now, it didnt actually occur to me that the father could be lying, like you said, based on his appearance and lack of self care and age. I was thinking the son had this great theory going and his father just burst his bubble. ... I think I am understanding your final thoughts a bit better. You thought it kind of silly for the son to blindly follow his father, your "outside" perspective. I felt similar, except it was less like disagreement with the son but more of sympathy towards him because his father and friend were (view spoiler)[talking behind his back(view spoiler)[ (hide spoiler)] and misunderstood the sons good and pure intentions. Oh, i KNOW these mistakes happen all the time! At least for me it seems like it. Just today I was misunderstood and i know i do it too, but i am better about recognizing it and trying not to act on my perceptions until i know they are facts. (hide spoiler)]

The following essay is a pretty good academic summary on The Judgement.

https://campuspress.yale.edu/modernis...

It's bedtime for me again (sorry) but after reading Sam and April's comments I want to just add this, which probably repeats a lot of Sam's post.

I had asked Perplexity to summarize Kafka's relationship with his father in the context of "The Judgment" and "The Metamorphosis." I inserted spoiler tags wrt "The Metamorphosis." And it mentions a letter Kafka wrote to his father in 1919, so a few years before he wrote "The Judgment."

PERPLEXITY

Franz Kafka's relationship with his father, Hermann Kafka, was deeply strained and had a profound impact on his writing, particularly in works like "The Metamorphosis" and "The Judgment". Here are key aspects of their relationship that influenced these stories:

Relationship Dynamics
Autocratic Father: Hermann Kafka was an overbearing, autocratic figure who dominated the family. He was a successful merchant who valued material success and social advancement, often at the expense of his children's emotional well-being.

Emotional Abuse: Kafka experienced emotional abuse from his father, who frequently belittled and criticized him. This created a deep sense of insecurity and fear in Kafka.

Disapproval of Literary Pursuits: Hermann disapproved of Kafka's writing ambitions, preferring him to follow in his footsteps as a businessman. This disapproval further strained their relationship

=
Influence on Kafka's Works
"The Metamorphosis": (view spoiler)[The novella reflects Kafka's feelings of alienation and rejection. The character of Gregor Samsa's father mirrors Hermann Kafka's temper and disapproval. Gregor's transformation into an insect symbolizes the sense of isolation and rejection Kafka felt from his family, particularly his father. (hide spoiler)]

"The Judgment": This story explores the theme of paternal authority and its impact on the protagonist. The son's decision to commit suicide at his father's behest reflects Kafka's own feelings of being trapped by his father's expectations and authority.
=
Personal Reflections
Kafka's "Letter to His Father", written in 1919, is a poignant expression of his feelings towards Hermann. In the letter, Kafka details the emotional pain caused by his father's behavior and how it affected his life and writing. This letter serves as a personal reflection on their relationship and its lasting impact on Kafka's psyche and literary output.

Sam wrote: "The following essay is a pretty good academic summary on The Judgement.

https://campuspress.yale.edu/modernis..."

"its strange mixture of the wonderful with the everyday.[2]"

I was thinking exactly this but didn't know how to explain it. Here are some notes I took:
Comments are slightly absurd, trivial, distracted as when Georg's father said something abusive to him, and Georg made a comment about a trivial item or manner, which felt almost like 'dissociation' that abused people escape into after years of the pattern.

"Stay where you are, I don't need you! You think you have strength enough to come over here and that you're only hanging back of your own accord. Don't be too sure! I am still much the stronger of us two. All by myself I might have had to give way, but your mother has given me so much of her strength that I've established a fine connection with your friend and I have your customers here in my pocket!"

To which Georg replies:

"He has pockets even in his shirt!" said Georg to himself, and believed that with this remark he could make him an impossible figure for all the world. Only for a moment did he think so, since he kept on forgetting everything.

April wrote: "Darren wrote: "re "The Judgment"
apparently Kafka wrote it in one sitting in 1912 and was first published in 1913, and I think he's on record as saying he was pretty pleased with it.
my review is h..."

I think Kafka's stories get better the more of him you read. You start to get a feel for his style, his soul, his humor, his suffering. And I've reread several.

I think his quotes are very revealing and add to an understanding of his work.

https://www.goodreads.com/author/quot...



Sometimes I fantasize that I could bring him back for an hour, meet in a cafe, and tell him what he means to the world and has meant for more than 100 years.
Died: June 3, 1924 (age 40 years)

I actually think he might have known.

Finished chapte 2, i think, of Metamorphosis with the apples. And yeah, it very much touches on the last few posts on here. I am wrecked by how sad this is and by what Kafka actually lived with. I agree, I wish we could bring him back and tell him how much he is loved. Even so, it has to be so difficult when it is such an important person in your life telling and beliving these awful things about you. But perhaps over time and with the outpouring consensus that most people are not like his father, he could feel better. I mean, wow! Yeah, it is really sad. I almost couldnt get past the first chapter but this last one was ok because of others. But still, damn!

I dont have to sleep now, but i do have to do some work. Haha

Finished The Metamorphosis and it doesnt really get any happier. I just noticed that it is labeled as horror on GRs, and it certainly is a type of horrific nightmare! Brilliant story, but way too sad. I am glad it is over.

Frankly, i am not sure if i can endure much more if the stories are going to be so sad like this. Poor Franz!

What is next tho? Penal Colony or? I will look above.

J_BlueFlower wrote: "I suggest a time plan:

As far as I know these are the complet publiched works in cronological order:
(1914 / 1919) = written in 1914, printed in 1919

Contemplation (-1913): Feb

The Judgement (19..."

Ahh! I didnt realize you had proposed a timeline. I didnt notice the dates before. But i only have my book until like next week or week after (mar 18) so i am trying to just read as much as i can when i can.
I dont believe i have The Stoker, so yeah Penal Colony and/or go back to Description of a Struggle and "Shamefaced Lanky..". Actually, i dont think i have Shamefaced.

Klowey wrote: "It's bedtime for me again (sorry) but after reading Sam and April's comments I want to just add this, which probably repeats a lot of Sam's post.

I had asked Perplexity to summarize Kafka's relati..."

Wait. The son commits suicide in The Judgment?! Did i just forget or did i totally miss that point? Honestly, i dont remember, but i must have looked stupid the other day with my comment/questions. Oops! Lol But like wow! I mean, would definitely be in theme, but also really sad.

April wrote: "Finished The Metamorphosis and it doesnt really get any happier. I just noticed that it is labeled as horror on GRs, and it certainly is a type of horrific nightmare! Brilliant story, but way too s..."

In the Penal Colony is, I think, both more horror and less. It's less personal. We got to really love Gregor, but the characters in In the Penal Colony are more removed from us; they are more like representations of types. In fact, they don't have names, they are just called the Commandant and the Explorer, etc.

And the "plot" seems more generally philosophical, almost like sci-fiction or a thought experiment. It is intense because it deals with morality. But you might be able to handle it better because it's less personal than the other two. I don't want to give too much away.

Also, if I recall correctly, A Country Doctor is excellent and I don't think it would be too depressing for you.

April wrote: "Klowey wrote: "It's bedtime for me again (sorry) but after reading Sam and April's comments I want to just add this, which probably repeats a lot of Sam's post.

I had asked Perplexity to summarize..."

I think there is some ambiguity as to motive, etc. Don't feel stupid. I have completely misunderstood many important books. ;-)

Does your book have "The Burrow"?
I don't think that story would make you feel so bad, but it still expresses a lot of Kafka and I think how he felt. It's also got humor mixed in. It's just one of my favorites so I can't help mentioning it. I have a weakness for little anthropomorphized animal protagonists.

Also you can read all the stories online, for free.

Klowey wrote: "April wrote: "Klowey wrote: "It's bedtime for me again (sorry) but after reading Sam and April's comments I want to just add this, which probably repeats a lot of Sam's post.

I had asked Perplexit..."

Ah, thanks for all of these replies, and oh duh! I forgot about those online sources. I think the one was identical to my hard copy, but im not 100 percent sure.

And i dont have my book with me at the moment to see if The Burrow is in it. To be honest, i have a 50/50 feeling i saw it and i didnt see it. Ha! Yeah, i am remembering it both ways. I KNOW one of the other stories is not in it The Stoker, but The Burrow might be. Tring to look for that link again, i know it is here somewhere. Hopefully ill have something more to say next time i check in. Didnt actually read any Kafka today cuz i am trying to finish 3 or 4 other books too. Ha!

"The Judgment" is a work that Kafka wrote in a single night in 1912. It has many autobiographical elements, and the two characters of Georg and his friend show two sides of Kafka. Kafka had recently become engaged to Felice Bauer, and a part of him wanted the love of a wife which is reflected in Georg's situation. But Kafka, like Georg's bachelor friend, also enjoyed being single since it gave him quiet time after work to be creative and write. Georg was ambivalent about writing to his friend about his engagement.

Kafka's father, like the father in this story, was constantly judging his son. His father did not value his writing, and was pressuring him to spend time working at the family business after he finished his daytime legal job. Kafka's father had a negative psychological impact on him; his son did not fit the tough masculine image that his father had in mind. In "The Judgment," the father sentenced Georg to death by drowning. This was interesting as a story, and also as a window to see what was concerning Kafka at this point in his life.

Sam wrote: "The following essay is a pretty good academic summary on The Judgement.

https://campuspress.yale.edu/modernis..."

That analysis really enriched the story for me. Thanks so much for finding and posting.

Finished In the Penal Colony. While I was disgusted by it for the most part, I ended up liking it by the end! I mean, not really liking it, but it was a good story. Ha! Hard to explain, but if you've read it, you probably understand.

I guess spoilers are allowed. I just think the invention is disgusting and the, whatshisname, promoting it like the former Commandant is really messed up in the head (as were leaders of that time, right?) To be honest, for a minute I thought the (view spoiler)[explorer was going to be put into the apparatus for disagreeing, so I am relieved that it was the whatshisname instead. Also relieved it was a quick death still, though I'm sure it was painful enough. Oh how gross a machine!! (hide spoiler)]

There's an article on LitHub today about a letter that Kafka wrote in 1913 to Felice Bauer's father. It tells the reasons he should break off their engagement due to ill health. Felice intercepted the letter so her father never read it. It ties into Georg's ambivalent thoughts about marriage in "The Judgment." The article is from the book, Hypochondria by Will Rees.

https://lithub.com/what-kafkas-hypoch...

Connie (on semi-hiatus) wrote: " It ties into Georg's ambivalent thoughts about marriage in "The Judgment." .."

And letters and what people know.

Connie (on semi-hiatus) wrote: "There's an article on LitHub today about a letter that Kafka wrote in 1913 to Felice Bauer's father. It tells the reasons he should break off their engagement due to ill health. Felice intercepted ..."

Wow! This is interesting! Also, I just came from reading The Hunger Artist and looking over the other thread here, and it explains that too.


Btw, I didnt read ALL of the comments there yet, because I want to finish the other 3 short stories that apparently go with it.

Ok, so yeah, I went for some short stories next because i was tired and it was late. Do we have a longer story up next tho? After Penal Colony? Oh wait, The Country Doctor. Wait, is that a longer story or short story? I read something about it being longer or had other parts (what other parts), but it was short to me.

I am missing one of those 4 ss in the A Hunger Artist collection. I read A Little Woman. I felt that one! Although, to be honest, it resulted in a better experience than what I once had. I suppose I learned from it too, but it was harder.

April wrote: "Finished In the Penal Colony. While I was disgusted by it for the most part, I ended up liking it by the end! I mean, not really liking it, but it was a good story. Ha! Hard to explain, but if you'..."

I wanted to comment on a similarity between "The Judgment" and "In the Penal Colony" that I had not noticed before this discussion. There is a juxtaposition of abuse and cruelty with objectiveness and detachment. You see it with Georg after his father verbally abuses him and he comments on him having pockets even in his shirt. Georg seems to do a lot of this "detaching from emotion while being abused" in TJ. And what really struck me about ITPC was the detached description of the torture equipment - a meticulously detailed description, devoid of all empathy.

Here is my brief review from
my first read.

One of the things I liked about ITPC was that, unlike some books that preach and explain the point of the story, Kafka gave us a story and allowed us to draw conclusions. Here is what I said about ITPC in a review from three years ago of a book I very much did not like:

If you're looking for creative, well-written books that capture the breakdown of society, the gradual emotional numbness from repeated exposure to pain and suffering, and the hopeless, desperate disintegration of the human spirit, may I suggest . . . a successfully disturbing work of fiction, with touches of the surreal and profound questions left to the reader to ponder, I recommend: In the Penal Colony.

Connie (on semi-hiatus) wrote: "There's an article on LitHub today about a letter that Kafka wrote in 1913 to Felice Bauer's father. It tells the reasons he should break off their engagement due to ill health. Felice intercepted ..."

Wow, that really sheds light on the part of the story about the (supposed) exchange between Georg's father and the friend, and Georg's letters being destroyed unread. I've come across so many authors' lately whose work was much more biographical in detail than I had realized.

J_BlueFlower wrote: "I suggest a time plan:

As far as I know these are the complet publiched works in cronological order:
(1914 / 1919) = written in 1914, printed in 1919

Contemplation (-1913): Feb

The Judgement (19..."

I'm going to start "The Stoker."

Could we add "The Burrow" to the end of the list? And for anyone who would just like a condensed Reader's Digest / Cliff Notes version, there is a wonderful actor who performed a 27 minute abridged version, which I think brilliantly captures the spirit of the story. The entire story would take about 1.5 hours to read. So his performance is about 1/3 of the length, though preserving the main message.

Turn on captions:
youtube.com/watch?v=lL6d00prEuQ