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What are we reading? 21/04/2025
RussellinVT wrote: "Welcome to the new thread. GP’s instructions worked perfectly.I don’t have much to mention myself on the reading front at the moment. I am in the middle of three separate books:
- Le Docteur Pasc..."
Hello again Russell, and thank you. The Pretender may will be of interest to this history nerd. I shall take a look.
Meanwhile, in my local free magazine someone has written a review of
Which looks as if it might be interesting!
Meantime I am back to the Bruce Beckham "Murder at the Bridge" after a two day reading hiatus. I was supposed to be visiting friends at a large farmhouse they had rented for Easter in Derbyshire but ended up staying over and hadn't taken my reader with me.
I'm dipping in and out of a selection of articles that the late Christopher Hitchens wrote for the LRB called A Hitch in Time: Writings from the London Review of Books
Compared to the collection of articles by Tony Judt i was reading before this, Hitch is a lot less learned or deep but equally interesting. He does tend to like a lot of smart little comments pepper his prose, as opposed to Judts attentive, interested focus but one was a professor and writer, the other was a journalist, so not like for like
Anyway i just read his 1995 piece on a book by Seamus Milne which looks at the security service involvement in the Miners Strike. The use of smear campaigns against Scargill, the use of agents in the pit towns and the case of Roger Windsor being an MI5 source in the NUM. (nothing to see here, said the establishment). The name of Stella Rimington is raised too.
It makes me consider as i have many times since 1985, how much force the state applied to break the Miners. In 1985 i remember a photo as a 9yo on the page of my parents newspaper, it showed a miner and his kids, sitting depressed in their house and mentioned he hadnt worked for 8 months. Even as a 9yo, i wondered, how did he have any money to live and why is he having do to his? It all seemed grim and sad.
On a similar note BBC4 are running the first series of Boys from the Blackstuff (1982) and watching that reminds me of this war on the post-war consensus waged by Thatcher and the Tories. They were quite prepared to see millions jobless if it achieved the neo-liberal, union-lite, precarity of modern jobs that emerged and remains today.
Completely off topic but allow me the momenthttps://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/...
Burnley promoted (again). 🥳🥳🍾🍾🎉🎉
giveusaclue wrote: "Completely off topic but allow me the momenthttps://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/...
Burnley promoted (again). 🥳🥳🍾🍾🎉🎉"
ah, but will they go straight back down again?
AB76 wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "Completely off topic but allow me the momenthttps://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/...
Burnley promoted (again). 🥳🥳🍾🍾🎉🎉"
ah, but will they go straight back down..."
Don't you start! 🤣 Just let me enjoy the moment
Mod
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/...
Burnley promoted (again). 🥳🥳🍾🍾🎉🎉"
..."
Burnley is having a moment. I recently saw an endearing movie with Rory Kinnear called The Bank of Dave, about a Burnley businessman who wants to set up a bank to make small loans to locals. It's based very loosely on a real story.
Mod
The Boys from the Black Stuf epitomizes an era, doesn’t it? I think of Yosser, so memorably played by Bernard Hill, as belonging to the same tradition as Lennie in Of Mice and Men - strong men who are pitiable.
Hitchens, as you say, is more controversialist than scholar, but he’s never less than interesting, and he did do some proper studies, e.g. Unacknowledged Legislators and a long essay Blood, Class, and Nostalgia on the relations between Roosevelt and Churchill and the special relationship generally.
RussellinVT wrote: Burnley is having a moment. I recently saw an endearing movie with Rory Kinnear called The Bank of Dave, about a Burnley businessman who wants to set up a bank to make small loans to locals. It's based very loosely on a real story"Yes, I had heard of that. Here is another one for you:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-55...
Many people take the proverbial because Burnley's gates are around 19700 (capacity 21,944) but fail to mention that is against a population of under 80,000. No other team can boast attendances which equate to 25% of the town's population. And, of course, there is plenty of local competition.
Not much reading today as I have had to evacuate the house for a few hours. I am having new flooring put in the hall and kitchen which has meant having repairs to bitumen, and tomorrow rescreeding. Expensive business but I know the guys who are doing it and they will make a really good job without botching. The new flooring is guaranteed for 25 years and, as I am 77,..............
giveusaclue wrote: "RussellinVT wrote: Burnley is having a moment. I recently saw an endearing movie with Rory Kinnear called The Bank of Dave, about a Burnley businessman who wants to set up a bank to make small loan..."i didnt know that about % of town to attendance, impressive
what was Burnleys main industry was it a mill town?
RussellinVT wrote: "AB76 wrote: "I'm dipping in and out of a selection of articles that the late Christopher Hitchens wrote for the LRB called A Hitch in Time: Writings from the London Review of Books ..."Yosser was more comic as a 20 something, more tragic for me as a 40 something
AB76 wrote: "i didnt know that about % of town to attendance, impressivewhat was Burnleys main industry was it a mill town?
"
Yes AB.
Burnley had 140 operating cotton mills at one point, with 101,000 looms. Even as late as 1914, over 70% of the town's population were employed within the cotton industry.
Historical Industries:
Textile Industry (Cotton):
Burnley was once a major center for cotton weaving, with numerous mills and a thriving textile industry.
Engineering:
The town also had a strong engineering sector, particularly in the manufacture of steam engines, looms, and other machinery for the cotton mills.
Coal Mining:
Coal mining was also a significant industry in the area, with many pits in and around Burnley.
Present-Day Industries:
Manufacturing and Engineering:
Burnley continues to be a hub for manufacturing, with companies involved in aerospace, automotive, and other engineering fields.
Aerospace:
The town is home to companies like Safran Nacelles and Velocity Composites, which are part of the wider North West aerospace cluster.
Automotive:
Burnley also has an automotive sector, with companies like Futaba Manufacturing and Fort Vale Engineering.
Digital Industries:
The Lancashire Digital Technology Centre provides support and incubation space for start-up technology companies.
Financial and Professional Services:
Burnley also has a financial and professional services sector, including businesses in law, accountancy, and engineering services.
Both my paternal grandparents and many other family members worked in the mills. Grandad took me in for a visit once and I couldn't believe the noise, you couldn't hear yourself think - no Health and Safety then.No wonder there were so many hard of hearing in those generations!
giveusaclue wrote: "AB76 wrote: "i didnt know that about % of town to attendance, impressivewhat was Burnleys main industry was it a mill town?
"
Yes AB.
Burnley had 140 operating cotton mills at one point, with..."
so did it rival Bolton as a mill town?my Lancs history is poor but i know a bit about Bolton and its place in the cotton industry, or was Bolton much larger and therefore not a rival?
A word on the politics of Ernst JungerLast nights reading drew quite a few names out of the texts which i wanted to research, all mentioned with great favour by Junger. On further research i find a core of deeply conservative, right wing thinkers of a nationalistic bent, though not Nazi(though a few were party members)
It reminds me that even with the Nazi evil being beyond the conservative approach to Germany and its minorities, the people Junger admired and hung around with from 1918 to 1945, were in no way progressives or democrats. They had intellectual ideals and were thinkers but would be 100% not my cup of tea
While the disaster of 1944 hasnt been reached in the diaries(when dozens of Jungers friends were executed by the Nazi's due links to the bomb plot), i am aware that a regime headed by characters like Geordeler and other "national conservatives" would still have been on the wrong side politically with many problems.(though Geordeler doesnt feature in the diaries)
There is a conservatism which is class based and mostly benign (think one nation tories) and then there is one that feels linked to a people and a movement, which is problematic, he is more towards the latter. The nature of German conservative thinking from 1918 to 1945 was never benign, even if many opposed the Nazis and were not anti-semitic they remained in thrall to the flaws of the Imperial Germany they grew up in
AB76 wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "AB76 wrote: "i didnt know that about % of town to attendance, impressivewhat was Burnleys main industry was it a mill town?
"
Yes AB.
Burnley had 140 operating cotton mill..."
Bolton had about 163 mills at one time and has a population roughly four times as big as Burnley.
They were/are certainly football rivals.
Founder members of the football league
Accrington, Aston Villa, Blackburn Rovers, Bolton Wanderers, Burnley, Derby County, Everton, Notts County, Preston North End, Stoke, West Bromwich Albion, and Wolverhampton Wanderers.
6 of those still going and in Lancashire.
Mod
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-55...
..."
That is some story. Credit to the BBC.
giveusaclue wrote: "AB76 wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "AB76 wrote: "i didnt know that about % of town to attendance, impressivewhat was Burnleys main industry was it a mill town?
"
Yes AB.
Burnley had 140 operatin..."
i have learnt a lot more about Burnley, thanks!
Mod
Founder members of the football league..."
Six from Lancs and the other six from the Midlands, all still going too. I had no idea. Doing British history in school I was told that historians thought there was a major societal shift around 1870 towards a recognizably more modern world, and the development of a strong urban working class culture in the industrial midlands and north was a prominent part of that shift. The emergence of the Football League is a perfect illustration. It must have been in those Asa Briggs books we all read, but I don't remember it.
RussellinVT wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "...They were/are certainly football rivals.Founder members of the football league..."
Six from Lancs and the other six from the Midlands, all still going too. I had no idea. D..."
I enjoyed Asa Briggs book on Victorian Cities last year, i had never heard of him before that and he looked at Leeds, Manchester and Middlesborough, very different places as well as Birmingham
Guys, is CCC ok? I havent seen a comment from her for a long, long time...
AB76 wrote: "Guys, is CCC ok? I havent seen a comment from her for a long, long time..."she is still commenting on WWAR, on the other side, and poem of the week...
Tam wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Guys, is CCC ok? I havent seen a comment from her for a long, long time..."she is still commenting on WWAR, on the other side, and poem of the week..."
ah ok, its odd how WWAR seems to be still popular, what with its narrower topics of conversation! Glad to see she is still active
RussellinVT wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "...They were/are certainly football rivals.Founder members of the football league..."
Six from Lancs and the other six from the Midlands, all still going too. I had no idea. D..."
Something from your side of the ocean:
During the American Civil War, Manchester, a major cotton processing center, experienced a severe crisis due to the Union blockade of Confederate ports, which disrupted the supply of raw cotton from the Southern states. This shortage led to the "Lancashire Cotton Famine", causing widespread unemployment, poverty, and hardship for cotton mill workers and their families. Despite the economic impact, Manchester's working class largely supported the Union and abolition of slavery, even sending a letter of thanks to Abraham Lincoln for his efforts to end the war and slavery.
Thanks for the new thread. Another new find at the Auburn Library.
By coincidence, before Pope Francis' death, I'd been reading books of Italian history by David Kertzer: The Pope and Mussolini, The Pope at War (Pius XII), and now The Pope Who Would be King (Pius IX).
A chain of popes chose the name Pius following the French Revolution, and subsquent struggles over papal authority.
At first it was a matter of the clash between revolutionary ideology and the Catholic Church. Then Napoleon, who saw room to attach Church and State, kidnapped first Pius VI and Pius VII. Pius VI died in exile; during his own exile, Pius VII lived simply and prayed. After the council of Vienna, Pius VII returned to Italy to loud praise, and the European powers restored Rome as the capital of much of central Italy.
Then came the widespread revolts of 1848. Pius IX's attempts to retain both control as a secular ruler and leader of a Church are the subject of The Pope Who Would be King.
The issue wasn't resolved for decades. A new Italian dynasty swallowed up the Papal States. The Pope and Mussolini studies the eventual resolution between the Pope and the Italian state, with a Concordat establishing a small independent Vatican City and Church influence in education.
Pope Pius XI hoped for another Concordat between the Church and the German state, only do discover that Hitler was far less trustworthy, and far more hostile, than Mussolini. The Catholic Centre Party was ordered to dissolve (along with all of Hitler's coalition partners), and other Catholic institutions were eroded. The Vatican's diplomatic arm, led by the diplomat who negotiated the Concordat and later became Pius XII, wanted appeasement.
The results were grim. Pius XII defended the Polish Catholics no better than he had defended democratic German politicians.
I'm done with Kertzer, who is a good writer, for the moment.
I am re-reading Two Popes by Anthony McCarten, which devotes space to the last two Conclaves...
More later.
giveusaclue wrote: "RussellinVT wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "...They were/are certainly football rivals.Founder members of the football league..."
Six from Lancs and the other six from the Midlands, all still going t..."
Lincoln sent a message of thanks to the British cotton workers in return.
Robert wrote: "Thanks for the new thread. Another new find at the Auburn Library.
By coincidence, before Pope Francis' death, I'd been reading books of Italian history by David Kertzer: The Pope and Mussolini, ..."
what a coincidence, i have a book by Kertzer on catholicsm and communism, a study of the situation in Bologna in the post-war period , on my pile!
Mod
Interesting, Robert. I don’t know those books at all, and they sound fully worthy of an institution that Macaulay said would outlast us all (his indelible image of a traveller from New Zealand standing on a broken pier of London Bridge…).
…
Talking about Catholicism, and The Boys from the Black Stuff, last night we finished re-watching another famous series from the year before, 1981, and the opposite end of the social scale – Brideshead Revisited. The cast was uniformly strong and the production values still strike one as excellent. It might be another case of the dramatization being better than the book, which I read without retaining any separate memory. Allegiance to the Catholic church is assailed and demeaned throughout, and is the catalyst for personal tragedy - until the very end, when it is vindicated. The only other TV show I can think of in the decades since in which the Catholic church is shown in a positive light is altogether lighter, Father Brown. I can’t think of a single work of literary fiction.
RussellinVT wrote: "Robert wrote: "... By coincidence, before Pope Francis' death, I'd been reading books of Italian history by David Kertzer ..."Interesting, Robert. I don’t know those books at all, and they sound ..."
i loved reading Brideshead as an adult but havent watched the series, Graham Greene focused on a more conflicted, ambivalent idea of catholic faith in his novels i think
A Landing On The Sun by Michael Frayn (1991) is a remarkable novel and i'm about two thirds in now It feels majestically un-english, even if the setting is the Cabinet Office and it reminds me so much of everything "english", soft, shabby pathos, the dead summer heat and the silences in speech and discussions but Frayn writes as if he is a european, there is much dedidated to the "idea of happiness" and its almost entirely removed from modern british fiction, which i assidiously avoid. (although written in 1991, 34 years old, its not really modern)
I dont think it would have lasted on my commute,pre-covid,the smells, the heat, the exhaustion would have dimmed my thinking capacity but with my faithful armchair and no disgusting public transport, i am determined to finish it.
Mod
Yes, Greene of course, how could I forget, though I was mainly thinking of more recent decades.
Mod
But asses too have resource and personality, and this ass uses his luck and his ass-talents to survive a succession of close calls with death and mutilation. All this is mixed up with stories of Chaucerian bawdiness among the humans. Finally, with the aid of a goddess, he finds and munches the antidote. A sober epilogue sees him initiated into the rites of Isis, while making a name for himself as a successful trial attorney.
At the centre is a most beautiful telling of the myth of Cupid and Psyche, the earliest known written version, and the equal of any later fairy tale in the mysteriousness of its meaning. And it does not fail to feature two wicked older sisters. (The Wikipedia page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cupid_a... has an absorbing selection of 44 images in painting and sculpture, starting with the celebrated Gérard.)
I read it in a rich and fluent modern translation by PG Walsh (OWC). I also dipped into the original 1566 translation by William Adlington, which was a best-seller in its day and is still nicely readable. Another translation by Walter Pater was done quite well in a Victorian mock-medieval style. I liked the modern version the best.
The Everyman edition of the Adlington said the re-print was not just verbatim but also literatim – which I had to look up: letter for letter.
Thank you to Robert for a very good recommendation. I was happy to find such an enjoyable read so far outside my normal run.
RussellinVT wrote: "The Golden Ass, a novel by Apuleius dating from around 150-180 AD, is an appealing mix of adventure and fancy – unexpected, by me, in a Roman text – in which the young man narrator, as a result of ..."russ, is the translation in prose or verse?i have noticed prose and verse translations of the greek and roman classics are quite common
RussellinVT wrote: "AB76 wrote: "i loved reading Brideshead as an adult but havent watched the series, Graham Greene focused on a more conflicted, ambivalent idea of catholic faith in his novels i think"Yes, Greene ..."
i find much modern English literature is quite fiercely secular or anti-religion, european literature can still have themes of religion, positive or negative and of course modern american lit is far more religious but in general most prose written after the 1970s reflects the atheist/secular dominant culture of the western world
As the Catholic Church remains the least progressive and most unreformed mainstream christian sect in the world, it easily attracts negativity since the 1970s. Vatican Due /Second Vatican Council in the 1960s did offer some interesting reforms but the reactionary wings of established religion are alarmingly durable and can maintain a hold on progressive faith with ease it seems.
Mod
All the translations I’ve looked at, including one now by Robert Graves, are in prose. The original itself is, I believe, in prose, though Louis MacNeice in the Everyman introduction says that much of the prose could actually have been set out as verse, and also that some of the prose rhymes.
Mod
That's my thought too. On European writers, one older Catholic whose work is I think quite beautiful is François Mauriac. I don't know if he's still read much.
RussellinVT wrote: "AB76 wrote: "i find much modern English literature is quite fiercely secular or anti-religion ..."That's my thought too. On European writers, one older Catholic whose work is I think quite beauti..."
i'm tempted to read some Mauriac, another french catholic writer was Bernanos. His diary of a country priest has hovered in my priority list
i am mostly more interested by protestant writing in classic and modern novels but its not really as celebrationry as catholicism and far more individualistic. Protestant authors represent divisions within Protestantism, rather than the movement or the values of protestantism as a whole
AB76 wrote: "RussellinVT wrote: "The Golden Ass, a novel by Apuleius dating from around 150-180 AD, is an appealing mix of adventure and fancy – unexpected, by me, in a Roman text – in which the young man narra..."Robert Graves wrote a most readable prose translation of The Golden Ass, which I enjoyed years ago.
RussellinVT wrote: "The Golden Ass, a novel by Apuleius dating from around 150-180 AD, is an appealing mix of adventure and fancy – unexpected, by me, in a Roman text – in which the young man narrator, as a result of ..."Glad you enjoyed it.
AB76 wrote: "RussellinVT wrote: "Robert wrote: "... By coincidence, before Pope Francis' death, I'd been reading books of Italian history by David Kertzer ..."Interesting, Robert. I don’t know those books at ..."
I read Brideshead Revisited aloud to my wife years ago. We'd read snatches when driving (she liked driving better than I did) and in the evenings. Her Catholic faith was a very important part of her life, and she enjoyed the character draftsmanship of a variety of types, but she disliked the "ostentatious Catholicism" of Waugh's presentation.
One moment I remember was when we reached the scene at Lord Marchmain's deathbed. There was breathless tension over the state of the father's soul, especially from his older son, Bridey.
After he left the Army Marchmain had separated from his wife and lived with the observant Italian Cara. Now he faced death. And...
My wife said: "Dad was a soldier. He had his long talk with God years ago. And what about Cara? She's been living in sin with Dad for all these years. Who's worried about her soul?"
On the other hand, we both laughed aloud at several scenes. She thought that Waugh had missed a trick by not having a scene between Charles Ryder's odd father and Bridey. "Jesuit versus Coot."
Robert wrote: "AB76 wrote: "RussellinVT wrote: "Robert wrote: "... By coincidence, before Pope Francis' death, I'd been reading books of Italian history by David Kertzer ..."Interesting, Robert. I don’t know th..."
you were the original audible or talking tape Robert, you could have made a mint on that!
Things are darkening for Ernst Junger, its May 1944, his son is in prison in Wilhelmshaven for criticising Hitler. Junger visits Admiral Scheulen the naval judge presiding over the case, wisely he avoids going to see Grand Admiral Donitz.In the anti-Hitler circles, one of his fellow conspirators warns him that the SS are already suspicious of the officer circles in the Paris HQ and see him and the main protestant military chaplain in Paris, Pastor Damrath as "suspect"
They also discuss the fact that "annihilation" is coming from the east and the plotters need to make peace with the Western allies before any invasion of France. The timing is interesting, just a month or so before D Day
I explored more some of the less well known french collaborator writes he hangs out with and they are all poison. Strange he never mentions the common themes they all have of being anti-semites and fascists. Junger is never anti-semitic, so suprised he hasnt explored the writers he spends long evenings with and their racist ideas
Mod
Great thought!
To my surprise, there’s more of a connection between Brideshead Revisited and Father Brown than I had imagined. Looking around on the internet to read more about the circumstances in which the novel was written, I was reminded that one section is entitled “A Twitch Upon the Thread”. These words are spoken by Cordelia to Charles, in both the book and in the TV version. Apparently they come from a Father Brown story. Chesterton’s words in full:
“I caught him, with an unseen hook and an invisible line which is long enough to let him wander to the ends of the world, and still to bring him back with a twitch upon the thread.”
Mod
It sounds as though he was very lucky to survive.
Still awaiting the copy from the library.
RussellinVT wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Things are darkening for Ernst Junger ..."It sounds as though he was very lucky to survive.
Still awaiting the copy from the library."
yes, Junger and Hans Spiedel are notable survivors from the utter purge of the junker class in that summer of 1944, all linked to the Hitler Bomb Plot. I visited the Gestapo musuem in Berlin in 1999 and it had a huge wall mural of all those killed in that purge, numerous friends of Junger and colleagues at the Paris Military HQ
Spiedel became a founder of the West German army and an influential military figure in that country in the post war period. He was jailed by the Gestapo but never hauled before the dreadful Peoples Court in summer 1944, which for almost every other plotter ended in death. (as members of the army were not subject to the peoples court, hitler made sure almost all the army plotters were expelled from the army so the peoples court could try them). Spiedel and Junger notably avoided this
The next sections of the diary could be very grim indeed, if Junger covers events in any detail, as i have reached May 1944. Though possibly the plight of his son was another major concern at the time
Last winter, feeling a need for some Japanese fiction, i read a Matsumoto detective story, brief, 150 odd pages, perfick, based around trains and clues but with a sharp, cerebral edgeI'm now reading the newly translated Inspector Iminishi Investigates or Cask of Sand in the original translated Japanese title and its just as good, if maybe better. Matsumoto wrote it in the 1960s and it seems to be "state of the nation" novel about post-war Japan, with plenty of plotlines, some dry wit and a wonderful, compact style.
AB76 wrote: "Robert wrote: "Thanks for the new thread. Another new find at the Auburn Library.
By coincidence, before Pope Francis' death, I'd been reading books of Italian history by David Kertzer: The Pope ..."
Meanwhile, I've added a copy of Applebaum's book on the Cold War to my reading pile!
AB76 wrote: "Robert wrote: "AB76 wrote: "RussellinVT wrote: "Robert wrote: "... By coincidence, before Pope Francis' death, I'd been reading books of Italian history by David Kertzer ..."Interesting, Robert. ..."
She was very articulate, and some things stick.
RussellinVT wrote: "The Golden Ass, a novel by Apuleius dating from around 150-180 AD, is an appealing mix of adventure and fancy – unexpected, by me, in a Roman text – in which the young man narrator, as a result of ..."I've found an illustration-- Apuleius Metamorphoses Bartolomeo di Bartoli. I'm trying to upload it!
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I don’t have much to mention myself on the reading front at the moment. I am in the middle of three separate books:
- Le Docteur Pascal
- The Golden Ass
- The Rigor of Angels (on perceptions of reality)
I’ll post some comments as I finish each of them.
A couple of days ago I heard part of a lively interview with Jo Harkin about her new historical novel called The Pretender set around the life of the supposed 17th Earl of Warwick, better known to us as Lambert Simnel. She said she had adopted the approach of Hilary Mantel: respect all the known historical facts, and otherwise feel free to use one’s imagination. Not sure it’s for me, but it might be of interest to any late-medievalists.
My eye was also caught by a headline in The Times, that there is a new translation of a 1966 novel by Simone de Beauvoir, The Image of Her. A young Parisian is in an existential crisis (which didn’t appear to be an attempt at humour). It is said to be brilliantly incisive.