Catching up on Classics (and lots more!) discussion

This is the thread for the May 2025 buddy read of The Promise by Chaim Potok.

Sorry for being late setting this one up. I lost my cat of 17 years and it has been a tough few days. Hope everyone is still planning for this one. I will start maybe toward the end of this coming week.

Sara wrote: "Sorry for being late setting this one up. I lost my cat of 17 years and it has been a tough few days. Hope everyone is still planning for this one. I will start maybe toward the end of this coming ..."

Sorry to hear that Sara. I know very well about that. I have my own cats and my stray cats that I feed.. I still remember losing my first cat a few years ago and still remember him fondly.

I will be up for reading this one and will probably get going once I make more progress in the books I'm reading currently. I really enjoyed The Chosen. It was one of my favorites from last year.

Aw so sorry, Sara. Losing a pet is not easy. Hang in there.

I’m definitely up for this one. I’ll see you here next week I hope.

I'm so sorry about the loss of your cat, Sara. Longtime pets feel like family. I'm hoping to start the book sometime next week.

Sara, my condolences on the loss of your cat. I will read The Promise later in the month.

Oh Sara, I'm sorry about your news. It's heartbreaking to lose such a dear companion. Take care of yourself.

I'll probably start the book in a week or so. Have to say, when I picked it up at the library and wanted to look at the first couple of pages, it was hard to stop!

Sorry to hear of your loss Sarah. It is such a a special bond we have with our cats. May your cat rest in peace.

I am reading other group and buddy reads, so I will join in later in a week or so.

A pet is another member of the family and I feel for your loss. In grief I hope you find comfort in remembering how blessed we are to have the years of company from such pets that prompts our grief.

I am overbooked again and will try to join the read but it will not be for a couple of weeks.

So sorry to hear your sad news, Sara :'(

I have the book on order at my library and will start as soon as it comes in!

I’m so happy that we have a large group for this book.

Thank you all for the kindness and understanding. They are members of the family and the loss is very real.

I won't feel as bad about starting this late now that I know others will also be looking at a week or more. This coming week is currently looking impossible.

Oh, I’m so sorry to hear about your kitty, Sara! I have loved and been loved by several kitties and pups in my life, and their passing is never easy. My prayers will be with you.

I also plan to read The Promise, but I am working it around other reads, so I may get a late start as well. But I’m looking forward to continuing on from The Chosen - such a wonderful story!

Thanks, Shirley. I am also excited for this one. I don't want to start until I know I can do it justice. It isn't the kind of book that you want to have too many interruptions. If it lives up to The Chosen, we will be happy to have done this.

I got mine today, but just barely started it. I am liking how it "feels" so far :)

I have read the first two chapters. I am floored by Michael. (view spoiler)[ He cannot hear and has difficulty seeing. Sensory clues are important clues in literature. (hide spoiler)]

I have finished Part 1 of 3--so the long introduction. I was wondering about the cast of characters and how they fit and what is a larger picture here--when I found this article. Face-Palm Moment. Of course. A world filled with men in a time after war at a time when men were the public personages. A patriarchy tending to itself.

https://postcardsfrompurgatory.com/20...

Chapter 1 - I enjoyed reading about Reuven again since he was such a likable character in The Chosen. Michael was frightening on the roller coaster and the dice game. With the increasing bets, someone experienced could have predicted that the old man might cheat them. I was afraid that Michael might kill or seriously hurt the old man in uncontrollable anger. I'm curious to know more about Michael since he seems unable to control strong emotions, and blocks everyone else out when he gets into that state.

Chapter 2 - Reuven made a connection with Michael while they were sailing. Michael seems unstable so I was worried he might panic on the sailboat, but Reuven is a calming influence. They were sailing back in the '60s when people rarely wore life jackets if they knew how to swim.

Chapter 3 - Reuven has modern ideas about interpreting the Talmud in a non-literal way like his father. He's going to be in a tough position trying to pass Rav Kalman's traditional class since he's been discussing the Talmud with his father for years. Danny warns Reuven not to let Rav Kalman know that he's been reading Abraham Gordon's liberal books.

I'm interested for Danny to enter the picture and see what he thinks of Michael.....
This books is really holding me captive -- I'm only on the third chapter, but am so interested to see what is going to happen next!

Chapter 4 - Michael's father, Abraham Gordon, wants to meet Danny Saunders, a psychology student who is Reuven's friend. Michael's parents need someone to convince their son to get treatment in a residential facility.

Michael is very knowledgeable about astronomy. I wonder if astronomy will have any significance later in the book.

I've just finished Chapter 6. This is so riveting! I can't put my finger on what makes Potok's writing so good, but he certainly knows how to keep up the tension.

I thought the beginning was kind of odd, and I wasn't sure how this was going to go, but it's fascinating how he's bringing these strands together: Michael's troubles, Danny's vocation, Abraham Gordon versus Rav Kalman ... Underneath it all, I have this continuous worry over Reuven's father (who I came to love in the last book), who we see getting more frail, but he still carries on.

Just a note: I started to read the article in Cynda's msg #17, but ran into a spoiler. It looks really interesting, but I'm going to wait until after the book to read it.

I am planning to start this tonight. Thank you for the warning, Kathleen. I will also leave it for after.

I just began reading and immediately feel the impact of Potok's writing. I had not thought about how much change would have been felt in Jewish communities with the influx of European Jews fleeing the ravages of WWII. It had particularly not occurred to me that the gentiles who shared the area, Irish, Italians and especially Germans would leave and the area would shift to almost exclusively Jewish. This would certainly alter the influences and the understanding of an entire group of people.

LOL. I am three pages in. This might be a very chatty book for me.

I will probably be jumping into this one this weekend. Looking forward to it.

Sara wrote: "I just began reading and immediately feel the impact of Potok's writing. I had not thought about how much change would have been felt in Jewish communities with the influx of European Jews fleeing ..."

I agree with you, Sara, that I immediately felt the impact of Potok's writing right from the first page. I've read four chapters, but I feel like I could just read and read! And I always seem to learn information from Potok about the Jews' plight that I never thought of before! So interesting, but so sad.

I started earlier today and am crew pages into the first chapter. I was also surprised by the opening section which describes the new state of life for the Jewish community in Brooklyn. I can’t think of anything like this in my lifetime. It is books like this and authors like Potok that make this kind of historical fiction the only kind I want to read.

I hope to get much further this weekend. I’m out of town all next week but will bring it with me. I hope to have time to read.

Great point, Sara, about the ways the end of the war impacted the community. And as with The Chosen, I'm finding the struggles over doctrine and philosophy fascinating. Like Terris, I just want to read and read! And as Lori says, this kind of historical fiction is becoming a favorite.

I read the first two chapters last night and, like everyone else, I am already hooked into this story. Michael is an interesting character (even though I think someone ought to give him a sound shaking at times). (view spoiler)[after his behavior at the carnival, I was surprised Reuven was willing to take him sailing a talk to him. I think that is a great comment on who Reuven is. Of course, I loved Reuven in The Chosen, so not surprised, just proud of him. (hide spoiler)]

I am now anxious to have Danny re-enter the story and see how he and Michael interact.

Ihope to finish the last 40 pages of the tome I have been reading, so I can start too.

I just completed Chapter Three. Potok has a riveting style for me, very tactile.

Just started and read the first chapter and already hooked into the story. I agree with Kathleen about how the author manages to pull the reader in with tension and emotions. It feels like there are mini-lessons or explorations of themes within each little segment. Looking forward to Chapter 2.

I just finished the seventh chapter and the story just keeps drawing me in. Potok just has a way of holding my attention even when he is discussing things I know nothing about!

I just started chapter 9, and the book keeps getting more intense. Potok writes so we'll care about all the characters to some extent, even the ones that are not very likable.

I agree Terris and Connie that the intensity just keeps building. I wasn’t sure where this was going from ch 1 with the introduction of Michael and Rachel. I just started Book 2 last night. Now that Danny is in the story I can’t help wondering (view spoiler)[how the dynamics might change between Reuven and Rachel. She is now curious about Hasidim. (hide spoiler)]

I’m very curious to know exactly what is wrong with Michael. He seems to blackout when he gets angry or emotional. A volatile person though could become dangerous.

I finished chapter 7 and I’m wondering like Connie mentioned earlier, how Reuven is going to get through and pass his class with Rav Kalman. He probably should have taken Danny’s advice.

I saw a turning point for Reuven when he checked out Rav Kalman’s books. It’s smart to know all viewpoints so he can make his own informed decisions about what he thinks is right. I can only imagine how conflicted he must feel with a father who taught him non traditional ways and a best friend who is ultra orthodox and now being influenced by a radical thinker in Gordon.

I'm seeing Reuven as being forced into a position where he is going to have to make up his own mind about what he believes. Some people go through life and are never exposed to alternative thoughts, but Reuven has been fortunate enough to have every possibility put before him. Doesn't make life easier, but surely makes it richer.

I also think Rachel is becoming interested in Danny and I'm wondering how this is going to affect Reuven and Danny's relationship with each other. I have seen what this can do to a friendship if it comes in the guise of a betrayal.

I'm glad to see you've started and are enjoying this, Franky. All of us are noticing how this is keeping us hooked. I really could sit down and read this straight through I think, but don't want to do that.

I'm into chapter 12, and love how this is unfolding--it keeps getting more intense, as Connie says. I think Sara has captured where this is going: Reuven having to find his own way amongst these conflicting beliefs. I'm so excited to see which way he'll go!

Franky, I just started too and think the same.

I read the first section and agree with the thoughts expressed over the last three posts. I am interested where the book goes next.

I finished reading the book this morning and am sitting in awe. I loved how everything just came together and the ending was superb. I’ll be waiting for everyone to finish so we can talk about how emotional this book was!

It knocked me over as well, Lori.

I am up to Chapter 6 and can’t wait to read on.

I finished the book tonight, and loved how the author explored the relationships between the fathers and the sons. It also showed the conflicts between traditional religion and the modern world. I'm looking forward to discussing this with everyone.

(view spoiler)[One of the things that really struck me was how the lives of all these young men are affected by the lives and the expectations of the fathers. Michael's reaction is the extreme, but we had already seen the profound impact of Danny's father's choices in The Chosen while trying to mold Danny into his image of what Danny should be. I almost cried when we saw Levi and I realized he is now being forced into the "job" that Danny rejected.

Reuven loves his father and his father is not oppressive, but Reuven's life is still very much affected by the choices his father makes regarding the book. It was interesting to me to hear Reuven admit that his own parental relationship had bordered on hate at times.

Michael is an interesting character and the solution to his problems seemed a bit tidy. Perhaps that is because I have very little faith in psychology as a way of healing inner turmoil. I think sharing and facing your demons is useful, but I don't think it cures anyone.Not arguing the point, just saying that might be why it seemed too pat for me. It did not affect my appreciation of the book, because Michael's turmoil was meant to highlight Reuven's struggle and it served that purpose very well.

What really surprised me is that Danny would use separation and solitary confinement as a method of breaking Michael. I found his father's methods to be cruel and unnecessary, and I was shocked that this is the treatment he would choose for another person. I was also surprised that Michael's parents would consent to this kind of experimental treatment. Of course, it was clearly a last ditch effort for them to save their child. (hide spoiler)]

We ought to discuss Rev Kalman.

Agreed Sara.
I'm 50% in.
I am thinking on this quote:

[Hasidim] were the tenants, the zealous guardians of the spark. And now everything traditional was being drawn toward that zealousness.They had changed everything merely by surviving and crossing an ocean. They had brought that spark to the broken streets of Williamsburg, and men like Rav Kalman who were not Hasidim felt swayed by their presence and believed themselves to be equally zealous guardians of the spark, and no one at Hirsch would fight them because the spark was precious, it was all that was left after the blood and the slaughter, and you dimmed it when you fought its defenders.

During the 20th century, maybe particularly after WWII,as indicated in our historical fiction novel, Judaism developed into different kinds of denominations.

Just like eyes meant something in The Chosen, here Rav Kalman's fingers and hands mean something.

Last time someone did a fine job of telling us about Danny's eyes. Maybe someone will tell us about the importance of the Rabbi's fingers and hands. . . . .I'm thinking along the lines of the idea that humans are The Hands of God.

Rav Kalman (view spoiler)[was in the Maidanek Nazi concentration camp in Poland where he lost his family and his students. He's living alone now in New York.

I'm guessing that he lost his fingers in the camp. He was very upset when he heard the word "experiment" regarding Michael's treatment. Were he or his loved ones used for some terrible medical experiment? The Nazi doctors did purposely wound people to study how they healed with various treatments. His phrase about "writhing in pain" suggests something happened to him. He also says, "Master of the Universe, if only one of them had been spared, I would have had someone to talk to. Only one. . ."

While Reuven dislikes Rav Kalman as a teacher, he does have compassion for him as a human being who has undergone suffering. Rav Kalman trusts Reuven, and asks him for information about America such as when he was worried about a pogram.

Rav Kalman has empathy for Michael, but he's totally opposed to the liberal Abraham Gordon.

Rav Kalman was responsible for driving a wedge between Reuven and his father with his strong opposition to David Malter's book and possible graduate school position. Reuven believed in his father's methods, but he still needed Rav Kalman to sign off to get his smicha. Reuven loved his father, but he was put in a bad position because of David's book. (hide spoiler)]

These ultra-conservatives seem to have retained their faith, even though it would be understandable if they felt that God had deserted them during the Holocaust.

I've finished now, and there is so much to think about! And so much to discuss.

To the end of Connie's comment about the Holocaust, I went back and re-read the epigraph to this book which consisted of two great quotes, one from The Rebbe of Kotzk, which I'll put in spoiler tags for space.
(view spoiler)[ "Master of the Universe, send us our Messiah, for we have no more strength to suffer. Show me a sign, O God. Otherwise ... otherwise ... I rebel against Thee. If thou dost not keep Thy Covenant, then neither will I keep that Promise, and it is all over, we are through being Thy chosen people, Thy peculiar treasure." (hide spoiler)]

That is one of my favorite things about this book, that it addresses taboos, among them: (view spoiler)[loss of faith, proper/improper parenting, changing revered traditions, and psychology applied in a religious context.

I think I have more faith in psychology than Sara, but feel it can be a double-edged sword. Michael's treatment came out well, but getting there was clearly dangerous, and everything that's said to come after will also be messy and uncertain indeed. (hide spoiler)]