Victorians! discussion

Welcome to the discussion of the first segment of The Woman in White! For those of you just meeting Wilkie Collins through this book, I'm very excited to share this journey with you. For those of you who are already acquainted with him, I hope you regard this as reuniting with a dear friend.

Before I read this book, I knew that Wilkie Collins had been BFFs with Charles Dickens, so I assumed that his work would be derivative of Dickens'. I was pleasantly surprised to find that this is not the case; Collins has his own distinct style. I was happy to discover that his young female characters, especially, are intelligent, courageous, and independent. As I mentioned previously, two of my favorite literary characters come from the pages of this book. I hope you enjoy meeting them!

We begin with an announcement from our omniscient narrator that the story will be presented in a manner similar to a court proceeding. Does having the story told as the recounting of eyewitnesses make it more or less reliable?

We meet our first “eyewitness,” Walter Hartright. Walter is a drawing master who seems to live a fairly normal, uneventful life teaching art to young people of good families. The only unusual thing about Walter, as we first meet him, is his eccentric and very voluble Italian friend, Pesca. This man provides some comic relief through his impassioned speech and uninhibited gestures, remarkable in the midst of the stolid English family. Pesca gleefully drops a plum employment opportunity into Walter’s lap, but Walter hesitates to accept it. He overcomes his inexplicable reluctance, and thus our adventure begins.

The mystery is introduced right before Walter travels to his new position. As he is walking along back to London in the dark of night, he feels the touch of a hand on his shoulder and turns to see that a woman dressed completely in white has suddenly materialized in front of him. She seems agitated and fearful, and is clearly in emotional distress. After enquiring about the route to London, she asks, with a peculiar urgency, for the names of the baronets he is acquainted with in London and seems relieved at the absence of a specific name.

They begin to walk toward London together, and during the course of their conversation, the lady mentions both the town and the very house where Walter will be living in his new position. The lady attended school there and has very fond memories of the schoolmistress, who possessed the same last name as the family who will be employing Walter. He is amazed at this chance (as well he might be!) and would like to pursue this conversation, but the lady is diverted by the nearness of London and her need to find a cab where she can be shut away from prying eyes. Walter helps her find one and watches her drive away, having discovered nothing more about her past or her name.

Once in London, Walter overhears a carriage hail a policeman and ask if he has seen a woman in white who has escaped from an asylum. If this were a horror story, that might have been the end for poor Walter!

According to an article in The Guardian, The Woman in White is “often singled out as the foundation text of "sensation fiction" – a genre distinguished by its electrifying, suspenseful, and sometimes horrific plots, as well as its unsavoury themes of intrigue, jealousy, murder, adultery, and the like” and was “an immediate sensation in its own right.” Readers were shocked and horrified by “the touch of a hand laid lightly and suddenly” on Walter’s shoulder in the dead of night when he is apparently all alone. Did you feel a shiver go down your spine at this part, or are we more blasé about horror here in 2025?

Walter arrives at Limmeridge House and meets the two sisters who are to be his pupils—the lively Marian Holcombe, and the pretty, innocent Laura Fairlie. Walter is filled with admiration for everything about Marian Holcombe except her face. Her figure is stunning, she is graceful and lively, intelligent, charming, and interesting. Walter is smitten with insta-love for Laura Fairlie. Laura is described as quite beautiful, with words such as "innocent," "sweet," "simplicity of manner," and "childlike earnestness" used to describe her. is smitten with insta-love for Laura Fairlie. What are your thoughts on these two characters and Walter's feelings?

Walter tells Marian of his encounter with the mysterious woman in white, and she is instantly captivated by the tale. She determines to go through her mother's letters to attempt to discover the identity of this woman. Eventually, Marian believes she has found the letter that identifies this woman--a girl by the name of Anne Catherick. They both also realize that the mystery woman bears a striking resemblance to Laura.

Marian speaks to Walter about his undeniable feelings for Laura. She speaks with gentleness and compassion, but despite her affection for him, she is honest--Walter and Laura can never be together. Not because he is a lowly drawing master (although we all know that is a big part of it--if he had shown up with bags of money they would probably not be having this talk) but because Laura is engaged to be married. It is a harsh blow for Walter, maybe somewhat relieved when Marian tells him he must go because Laura is also falling for him.

Laura’s fiancé is Sir Percival Glyde, and Walter instantly recalls the Woman in White's warning him against a dastardly baronet. Walter is suspicious of Sir Percival (also because Sir Percival is in his forties while Laura is a tender twenty-one--very cringe!). Could he possibly be this no-good nobleman? Walter is inclined to think so, but he could be prejudiced by his own love for the man’s fiancée. Are Walter’s perceptions trustworthy on this issue?

This week's reading ends with an unsigned letter being delivered to Laura, warning her against Sir Percival while not naming him specifically. Walter and Marian determine to track down the letter's origins.

What are your thoughts on Collins’ style after the first week of reading? Are you a fan, or not so much? As an English teacher (translation: nerd), nothing excites me more than a verbose author with an extensive vocabulary who knows how to use it, but I know that not everyone feels the same way. ;)

Please share your thoughts on these topics or any others you may think of.

I'm completely swept up in this story so far! I knew Collins had a sensational style and I assumed that would cause me to enjoy the book from an emotional distance, but apparently I'm susceptible to sensation fiction. I think my favorite thing though is the interesting characters he's created for this story.

I'm in the opposite camp; this is all too over the top for my tastes. And speaking of taste, I'd like Walter more if he'd had the good taste to fall for Marian instead of Laura, although I'll give him his due that he analyzed the situation perfectly and knew he was at fault. And it's not as if falling for Marian would have been productive, either.

We need an explanation for why Laura is engaged to Sir Percival and why she couldn't back out if he's horrible, which it seems he is. I assume one is coming.

Cindy wrote: "Welcome to the discussion of the first segment of The Woman in White! For those of you just meeting Wilkie Collins through this book, I'm very excited to share this journey with you. For those of y..."

I love Collins' style, as well. Marian Holcombe is one of my favorite literary heroines. I hope you will see why as we get deeper into the novel!

Nancy wrote: "I'm in the opposite camp; this is all too over the top for my tastes. And speaking of taste, I'd like Walter more if he'd had the good taste to fall for Marian instead of Laura ..."

While I am a fan of Collins' style, I wholeheartedly agree with you about Walter. How can he be so blind--and so shallow? He is exposed to the full force of Marian's charm, intelligence, and wit, and he is unmoved. One look at Laura's pretty face and he's a goner! Never mind that she presents as one of those lachrymose females who are always wilting and fainting everywhere. I guess the heart wants what it wants, and Walter's heart chooses beauty over brains! Disappointing, to say the least.

Cindy wrote: "How can he be so blind"

Precisely the problem, LOL! He ISN'T!

Agree with others about the lovely writing style. I was moved by the touching story between lovers who could never be. Marian Halcombe is an interesting character so far, but I was put off by certain misogynistic comments of hers

I am quite enjoying this novel! I kind of got ahead and forgot about checking in. But I am loving Wilkie Collins’ writing style. Very atmospheric! I love the multiple layers going on here. Now a mystery; now a romance; now a ghost story almost! He’s very good!

I first read this maybe 20 years ago and although Collins is one of my favourite writers I’ve never re-read it – I think with more well-known books I’m less inclined to re-read because the plot details are more familiar. Anyway, it’s great to revisit it. One of the reasons I like Collins is because I find him so much more readable and less verbose than Dickens and the writing style is fluid and easy whilst also having the wonderful sentence construction and vocabulary which I enjoy in Victorian novels. There are of course all the usual unlikely coincidences – the Woman in White just happens to meet Hartright on the night before he travels to a place she knows, Marian just happens to find reference to Anne Catherick in her mother’s letters – but this is what we expect from sensation novels! The contrast of Laura and Marian seems very typical of its time, with the fair-haired woman being sweet and innocent and childlike and the dark-haired one being strong-willed and intelligent (and obviously a more interesting character in my opinion!) I don’t think it’s fair to blame Hartright for being superficial because of his attraction to Laura and I’m pretty sure many other people both in his time and our time would react in the same way! I can also understand Marian’s dismissive comments about women’s perceived limitations if she is a woman who does not fit the conventional pattern, although it surprised me that several times she included herself in the disparaging remarks and I couldn’t tell whether she was being flippant, for example when she says she is no good at drawing – “Women can’t draw – their minds are too flighty…” It doesn’t seem as if she would consider herself to have a flighty mind, regardless of her drawing abilities.

Cindy wrote: " Does having the story told as the recounting of eyewitnesses make it more or less reliable?..."

First person narration is by definition unreliable. And chapter I is also written by Walter Hartright. (A name worthy of Dickens.) As compiler and editor as well as witness, the whole novel will, to some extent, be filtered through him. This limited point of view adds extra layers of mystery.

Hartright is a very dreamy, imaginative young man. A Fatalist. "Poignant as it was, the sense of suffering caused by the miserable end of my brief, presumptuous love seemed to be blunted and deadened by the still stronger sense of something obscurely impending, something invisibly threatening, that Time was holding over our heads. " He is always talking about how he feels he has no control over the mysterious coincidences. As a reader, this means I am always asking myself how much is real and how much this sensitive guy is imagining. Luckily, Marian Halcombe seems grounded in reality and very sensible. Here they are in conversation.

"She led me across the lawn." by F. A. Fraser


In volume form, the novel first appeared in Great Britain on 15 August 1860 with a frontispiece by Sir John Gilbert and eight full-page wood-engravings by F. A. Fraser.

Collins was a deceptively talented writer. The term ‘sensation’ novelist is an insult to his abilities. I have read this novel on more than one occasion and each time I come to it, I find something to enjoy that I had not recognised previously.

This time I am luxuriating in the author’s positioning of characters. For example, the way that Walter’s character bounces off his friend Pesca’s character. In the same way Marion and Laura have been designed to be deliberately different. This emphasises their characteristics in a much greater way than if they had not been opposites.

As for Laura, her introspective manner disguises the fact that she does have talents of her own. She is less vigorous but more artistic than Marion. Marion has to speak up for her and it is obvious that she admires her greatly. Marion’s extrovert character throws a well meaning protective blanket over Laura and makes Laura less inclined to show her real self to others. Even so, Walter has been able to draw out Laura. She has come to life during the time he has been her drawing master. So it is no wonder they have fallen in love with each other.

To me it seems rather unfair on women like Laura to find them ‘lacking’ or ‘insipid’ just because they lack an outgoing, demonstrative personality. Walter was enamoured with far more than her ‘pretty face.’ (I would also support such characters as Fanny Price in Mansfield Park and Florence Dombey from Dombey and Son in much the same way.)

Also any question about Laura’s subdued nature is partly answered by the fact she was soon to be trapped in an arranged marriage. Who wouldn’t be nervous and somewhat lacking in confidence when the future holds such terrors as that?

The description of Walter’s first encounter with Mr. Fairlie was masterful in the way it immediately placed that man at arms length from everyone and everything else in the story. Even the walk through the house to his rooms seemed such a long way. The idea of the curtains moving giving him a headache provided the reader with an immediate measure of the type of man he was.

Paul wrote: "Cindy wrote: "How can he be so blind"

Precisely the problem, LOL! He ISN'T!"

Good one! LOL

revexxa wrote: "I was put off by certain misogynistic comments of hers..."

I wonder if that is mostly the result of being written by a man? I would imagine that Collins, writing the dialogue of a woman, would try to see things like a woman, but I would imagine that the time and the prevailing beliefs would still seep into that. I would think that some of these beliefs, such as women being flighty and not as capable of serious thought as men, would have been just immutable truths as far as the men were concerned.

Beda wrote: "I am quite enjoying this novel! I kind of got ahead and forgot about checking in. But I am loving Wilkie Collins’ writing style. Very atmospheric! I love the multiple layers going on here. Now a my..."

I also love that he so deftly combines a romance with a mystery, and throws in a little paranormal action to raise the hairs on the backs of our necks! :)

Lorna wrote: "I don’t think it’s fair to blame Hartright for being superficial because of his attraction to Laura and I’m pretty sure many other people both in his time and our time would react in the same way!..."

I know! I can't deny that in my youth I have also been guilty of bypassing the smarter, more personable boys for those with a more handsome face! I'm just so partial to Marian that I feel compelled to advocate for her! :)

Ginny wrote: "Cindy wrote: " Does having the story told as the recounting of eyewitnesses make it more or less reliable?..."

First person narration is by definition unreliable. And chapter I is also written by ..."

Ginny, thank you so much for sharing the lovely picture! I love that reading an unreliable narrator means the reader must always be a little more aware, a little more critical, of the narration. We are forced to step back and examine it more closely, looking for those cracks that will reveal to us the flaws in the logic and conclusions. It keeps us on our toes!

Trev wrote: "To me it seems rather unfair on women like Laura to find them ‘lacking’ or ‘insipid’ just because they lack an outgoing, demonstrative personality. Walter was enamoured with far more than her ‘pretty face.’ ..."

You're right, Trev. I am a little harsh on Laura. I was limiting my reaction merely to what we have seen of her so far, which is very little. At this point, she is pretty much just a presence and has revealed little to nothing of herself, other than what Walter, clearly besotted, tells us. I know that still waters run deep, but again, I'm so partial to Marian that I come down a little too firmly on her side! :) Laura's character must be one of great worth, or she would not be loved so devotedly by those who know her best.

I’m definitely hooked on this story and on the beautiful clear prose of Wilkie Collins. I’m especially intrigued by the resemblance between Laura and the Woman in White; the section with Laura pacing in the moonlight in her white muslin dress was so haunting that I have to wonder at the connection between her and the W in W. Marion is my favorite character I hope she proves to be the great heroine of the story.

I’m really enjoying this so far, and agree that Collins is a wonderful writer. His descriptions of Mr Fairlie and Mrs Vesey were really funny - a man who can’t bear the sound of curtains and a woman who sleeps all the time.!

I’m interested by the views of Marion and Laura in the comments above. Laura is pretty much the standard Victorian heroine (and as Trev said she has her own good qualities) so I guess Collins had to write her that way to appeal to his readers, especially those who are looking for the romantic angle. I’m impressed actually that Collins has given us Marion, an intelligent articulate and witty woman who is practically running the household and looking after Laura as well.

Nancy wrote: "I’m definitely hooked on this story and on the beautiful clear prose of Wilkie Collins. I’m especially intrigued by the resemblance between Laura and the Woman in White; the section with Laura paci..."

I totally agree with Nancy. I previously read the moonstone and thoroughly enjoyed that, but even after the first 11 chapters I think that this novel will be even better. I love the way that Collins introduces his characters so vividly that I can almost see them in front of me. Although he describes Marion as ugly and histute, her persona comes over as a lovely lady and I have to say my favourite of the two sisters. I even love the old lady who keeps dozing off!

Cindy wrote: "revexxa wrote: "I was put off by certain misogynistic comments of hers..."

I wonder if that is mostly the result of being written by a man? I would imagine that Collins, writing the dialogue of a ..."

Is it possible she is being sarcastic? She goes on to say "I can match you at chess, backgammon, ecarte, and (with the inevitable female drawbacks) even at billiards as well." I don't think we ever see them in these activities, but she seems to be throwing out a good humoured challenge. Even though she doesn't like drawing.