Catching up on Classics (and lots more!) discussion

This is the thread for the June 2025 buddy read of A Fable by William Faulkner

Yay!

I am listening to audiobook. Allowing the feel and themes and feel of the novel come through. As with other Faulkner novels there is so much here that I will do a first read where I will understand better than I think I do and then come back next year to do a second more adequate read.

Sounds like a plan! But as a reader with a full pile to read, i hope it isnt too difficult a read, because i am just finishing up one. 😅 (for me, To the Lighthouse, while short, has taken time to read)

I will try to start this one today, along with Childhoods End (well i started the latter, so continuing). I am sure these will take me into July though 😅🤷‍♀️

I plan to start this tomorrow. I have an audiobook and the hardcover but will be going slow with it taking at least the rest of the month because I'm reading another book at the same time.

I always say I'm going to do what you are doing, Cynda, when it comes to a difficult book but I rarely end up going back because I have too many books to get to! As it is I won't be able to get the better understanding.

I will begin tomorrow as well. I have been reading a lot of popular fiction and summer escape reading and hope some Faulkner will kick my brain back into working gear because those other novels and the summer heat have slowed my thinking dramatically.

I am about halfway through two other books right now, so I will start this one when I have them finished. I don't think I could mix Faulkner with anything else...have to read him all alone.

Well I'm 2 chapters in and this is very thick but I'm still enjoying it. I read that this is allegorical and a sort of passion play and it's really distracting me with trying to determine who each character represents. The only thing clear so far to me is that the 13 soldiers represent Jesus and his apostles because that's easy.

Others seem to be composite characters, even combing the old and new testaments? Like the women with the bread maybe being the Samaritan woman/Rahab? General Gragnon is a puzzle for sure so far. A Pharisee? Pilot? Herod? I'm giving up on trying to figure it out for now but I'll be very interested in what others think. (view spoiler)[ I found it interesting that Gragnon he was a woman's dressmaker and then a playwright before enlisting and rising through the ranks. He definitely doesn't seem to be all bad but he's certainly too ambitious and self centered and very worried what his superiors think of him. He's also conflicted. I was thinking possibly Nicodemus? (hide spoiler)]

The feel so far is like that of a fever dream or something. It seems like it's in slow motion, especially when you have some sentences over a page long! There's definitely a clear fog of war feeling. (view spoiler)[ The scene with the crowed pushing through the street with the tanks breaking them up was amazing and the woman getting bread from the soldier then dropping, eating and spiting it out was also impactful. Not sure quite what it means other than having a hunger that can't be satisfied. (hide spoiler)]

I flipped through the chapters to see the headings and it looks like they will represent Christ's final week but not in order and going back and forth in time in some chapters. This will be a slow journey for me but I'm interested in it.

Ahhh Sue, yes Being that Faulkner was from the Bible Belt and hearing your connections, I am developing an understanding of this bookcover.

It's quite an ambiguous cover with both the cross and the title. I don't believe he was a committed Christian but he was likely very familiar with the Bible. I'm interested to see where he goes with it. As it is now, I think it's going to be intentionally ambiguous.

Having lived in the Belt Belt same as Faulkner, I am more sure that Faulkner was commenting on place of Christianity here. Also the union of rulers, clerical leaders, and military leaders still in 21st century holds sway. The reference to Napoleon also clues me in one the importance of the role of Christianity here in the novel.

Remember Napoleon tried to put Catholiic Church in its place in France, in part by crowning himself in the presence of the pope who as highest-ranking cleric present at coronation would have in the usual order of things would have crowned the ruler of France.

So for me there is a strong connection between the cross Christianity and the simple white crosses of the graves at Verdun and other military burial grounds.

I am only two chapters in and given the amount of complexity already evident, I doubt I will have any definitive ideas on this book when done. The similarity to Paths of Glory by Humphrey Cobb is evident but Faulkner's work seems much more in the realm of ideas and philosophy. Both are based on the Souain corporals affair. Faulkner has started the novel out of time sequence and it looks like he is emphasizing certain things in each chapter, and not necessarily just one thing. So we will be going back and forth in time as we get the overall story. Chapter one throws us into the middle of the action seemed like a broad general sketch of the chaos of the time. Chapter two is more detailed and we focus on a character. I found the story of the aide who was seeking to be seeking brave quite interesting. I have not read The Adventures of Gil Blas the book referenced.

I haven't decided the dominant tone in this book yet, whether we are to lean toward the serious or or the humorous and Faulkner is so dark in his humor, it is hard to decide.

I don’t disagree that it has to do with Christianity, Cynda. It’s filled with Christian symbolism. I just cant tell yet if he’s being critical or supportive or somewhere in between. A Fable (Myth) juxtaposed with the cross feels ambiguous to me. Like what Sam is saying about tone. We will see as it goes on. When it comes right down to it though it’s a piece of art and we may all interpret it differently. His writing lends itself to that.

Yes. The Christianity is there, but what it all means, I don't know. I change my understanding of all pieces of art as much I change-&all the time 😄

Cynda is preoccupied with RL wrote: "Yes. The Christianity is there, but what it all means, I don't know. I change my understanding of all pieces of art as much I change-&all the time 😄"

Me too, Cynda!

I am two chapters in and need a lot more reading before I can begin to put things together. As I have taught myself to do with Faulkner, I will not try to decipher too much before he begins to reveal it to me. I am trying to make copious notes, because the smallest of things might have huge significance later on. Sometimes I fall right into Faulkner, and sometimes it is a push. This one seems a push for me, because I have yet to nail down exactly who Gagnon is...he is as layered and mysterious as his origins.

I'm still trying to plug along but it's getting more difficult. I'm only finished with, I believe is the 6th chapter.

I feel like Faulkner is trying to torture us. He goes back and forth in time both inside and outside of the chapters. In my copy the chapter numbers aren't even labeled and it's in an anthology so it's hard to even get a sense of where you are in the book. I think he intentionally wants us disoriented and it's working on me.

There is a strong theme now of the officer class against the soldiers with the officers being concerned with personal glory, secondary to even winning the war. I love the runner who demoted himself because he was disillusioned with the officers. (view spoiler)[The the German officer who shoots his pilot based on following his own orders to land in enemy territory, and then egging on the sentry to keep beating the runner, seems to be the most callous so far . He doesn't give is actions a second thought. (hide spoiler)]

I'm finding this harder and harder to get through but I'm going to keep going.

I was putting out fires all weekend and just stepped away from reading, but I will also be pushing forward, Sue. I am hoping this is one of those books you can really only appreciate looking back!

Sara wrote: "I was putting out fires all weekend and just stepped away from reading, but I will also be pushing forward, Sue. I am hoping this is one of those books you can really only appreciate looking back!"

I think it will be that way, Sara. There are good themes and interesting dynamics but it's a slog.

You cannot sink into the narrative, because you must constantly be alert to what is actually happening and to whom. I have had to retrace my steps while reading today just to be sure who was speaking. I do find the characters are often only there briefly, but they imprint on your mind (like the sixty-year-old man who has joined so he can look for his missing son).

Keep reminding myself it is Faulkner --nobody ever accused him of being easy.

Sue wrote: "Well I'm 2 chapters in and this is very thick but I'm still enjoying it. I read that this is allegorical and a sort of passion play and it's really distracting me with trying to determine who each ..."

Ok, im gonna stop right there after the allegory and 13 apostles (message 8). I havent even gotten that far yet. Am i even reading the same book, i wonder? Because so far, it is just about a commanding officer. 😅 Well, and i think there was another story before his, maybe another "apostle"? But yeah right now i am seeing, perhaps, the closest to a moral dilemma, the having to lead innocent men to a sure failing thing and death, to win an award/title. Thats as far as i am, so unfortunately, havent been able to discuss actively this month.

Yeah, it is definitely a bit of a more difficult read, but moreso just that i havent had the time to keep reading yet. Trying to wrap up 3 books, then i can focus on this and Childhoods end, hopefully. 🙏😅🤷‍♀️

Sam wrote: "I am only two chapters in and given the amount of complexity already evident, I doubt I will have any definitive ideas on this book when done. The similarity to Paths of Glory by [aut..."

Think im about here in my reading, but it begs the question- how do we determine the chapter count for discussion sake, because it only has the days of the week and they are often repeated. I suppose it will be based more on the chapter content than the number, but that still seems difficult. 🤔

By the way, i think this is my first Faulkner. I intend to lean on this discussion for my first read-through, but like i said, it isnt so much the difficulty yet as it is the lack of time i have had with it. I mean sure, it is challenging, but not impossible... so far. Haha! I like the notion that it is an artistic piece! 👍

Ouch, this is not a good starting point for Faulkner. I hope you will read something like Light in August eventually, April, and not rest on this as defining him as a writer.

I have finished my first read of this book. The themes and topics I have got, more or less. Having lived in military towns all my life and having grown up with family members who served their time for GI Bill benefits, I am quite familiar with these ideas. What was spelled out here more clearly than ever is the concept that the Military is a force coped with and not controlled, a force that is unstoppable in many ways. The first time I approached this idea was when in 1990(?) reading On the Trail of the Assassins by Jim Garrison

Another thing that grabbed my attention and my heart: The damage done to the Earth and its people. One hundred years after WWI the trenches are still there in the battlefields, the various Tombs of the Unknown Soldier are still honored, the farms, fortunes and family continuance were all affected with the effects still being felt in England and France and all across the Earth.

April wrote: "Sue wrote: "Well I'm 2 chapters in and this is very thick but I'm still enjoying it. I read that this is allegorical and a sort of passion play and it's really distracting me with trying to determi..."

The 13 men are chained together in the truck. The story starts after the action (or inaction) where the General is deciding whether to execute them for refusing to fight. The second chapter goes into more detail. I probably wouldn't have thought anything about the 13 men if I hadn't read that it's a passion play.

I agree, as it goes on it's hard to talk about chapters since they aren't numbered and go back and forth in time. I personally put magnetic bookmarks in my copy for the start of each chapter but I could have made mistakes because the pages are very thin in my anthology copy. I'm trying to do a chapter a day (skipping days though) and I like to have a sense of how long it is because it's work for me getting through these!

Cynda is preoccupied with RL wrote: "Another thing that grabbed my attention and my heart: The damage done to the Earth and it's people. One hundred years after WWI the trenches are still their in the battlefields, the the various Tom..."

I'm so envious that you are done Cynda! I think it helps to have military knowledge. I had to look up what a sentry was.

Have you by chance read the book Back Over There: One American Time-Traveler, 100 Years Since the Great War, 500 Miles of Battle-Scarred French Countryside, and Too Many Trenches, Shells, Legends, and Ghosts to Count? It's only a 300 page book but it's fascinating.

I read that awhile back and was floored by how much physical evidence from WWI is still there in the battlefields and villages of France. It's a great book. It makes me want to go back to France to visit the area.

I am reading this slowly so I may not finish this month. April, I am using the Library of America edition in Faulkner Novels 1942-1954 which divides the book into chapters with titles. The first is Wednesday. But in the top margin of each page is a day that shows when the action is taking place so for example, in the chapter, titled Tuesday, Tuesday Night, the margin heading changes to Tuesday night when it occurs. Since the novel is going back and forth in time, it is important to be aware of what is happening when in the week during which the novel's action is ocurring. If you have this, then referencing the day and action should be enough to tell others where you are. If you do. If you do not have this, you can tell us by percentage of book read or number of pages read and we should be able to figure it out.

What impressed me so far is how much of an influence this must have had on Heller when he wrote Catch-22. There are a lot of similarities I have seen so far. Heller turned up the humor when he wrote his but the absurity is about the same. I at at the Tuesday Wednesday section, a little over 100 pages in or roughly around 25%.

Thank you Sue. I am interested in that book. I have marked in as TBR. We will see. . . . I will have to figure a way to read more nonfiction.

I am also going very slowly. Had intended a chapter a day, but only managed a partial chapter last night. I think it would be marvelous to have that reference to when it occurred, Sam. One thing that makes me need to go so slow is putting the current chapter in the proper reference to the events.

The comparison to Catch-22 is spot on. WWI was the most senseless (and perhaps the cruelest) war ever fought. Looking back it is impossible to identify anything worth fighting over for the average soldier and a whole generation of young men, and potential for the world, were lost.

I was thinking, Sue, about when I would have picked up on the allegorical connection if I had not known it was a Passion play going in. I think it would be fairly early on when the Old Porter and the Runner are talking and the OP says he should "go and look at him". The runner says "Him? So it's just one now" and the OP says, "Wasn't it just one before? Wasn't one enough to tell us the same thing all them two thousand years ago..."

Cynda, I am amazed at your prowess in getting through this so quickly. I wonder if Faulkner isn't saying to us that the military would be an unstoppable force if discipline were lost and the men decided to act on their own convictions instead of their orders. Especially in a war like WWI, it seems unfathomable that men just kept crossing the no man's land into the enemy and certain death without having any "reason" to hold on to. The more you know about WWI, the less sense it makes that so many nations contributed to the slaughter.

I find it interesting that this book was published in 1955, the year that the U.S. first sent advisors to Vietnam and began to involve us in that war. I wonder if Faulkner was aware of this and I also wonder what he thought of that war in light of this book. I might have to go and see if I can find any comments from him on Vietnam.

Yes, the topic becomes larger and larger.

I have just completed the story of the three-legged horse. I am trying to put this into the perspective of the war and the contrasts and parallels. The horse can be seen as resilience, like the men who are surviving against all odds. Perhaps the black man and the trainer who save him are like the corporal who steps up to try and call a halt to the killing around him.

This section certainly was more in Faulkner's normal style and I could feel how much easier the reading and the storytelling seemed when Faulkner stepped off the battlefield and back into the South and a world he knows so intimately.

What is the significance of the old man and the rider (and perhaps even the rich lady) arriving to find the trainer? How is this going to affect the "runner" who has borne witness to the encounter of the two men and who now knows the story?

I always feel out of my depth when I am reading Faulkner and then toward the end of the book I generally have some epiphany. I am certainly hoping that happens here.

Sara, certainly I understand the confusion as I am experiencing it myself.

I am letting myself be confused. War is conducted in confusion: Confused military personnel working with incomplete information where decisions must be made and orders followed. This seems to part of the reason for what they called Shell Shock and we can PTSD--something some can partially heal through storytelling--such as Faulkner does. Sometimes parts of the story make better sense and some parts don't. The story may crack, yet it may be a better healing-from-war piece of literature we seem to have. . . .I may/not ever understand the horse story.

I wonder if the three-legged horse maybe be the stand in for the allies named here: French. British, American. Is the black man a stand in for the army grunts. In American Experience the black soldiers were more often used for grunt work rather than fine military performance. I wonder if the woman is Lady Liberty.. . . Iam open to being all wrong about this section and having to start over in understanding.

Of course, the story of the three-legged horse finds a place in the events later in the novel, as I assumed it would.

I have finished the book and have spent two days just pondering the ending and all the allegorical content and the myriad themes Faulkner has presented. I think Sam's reference to Catch-22 is perfect. After reading that comment, I could not help finding all kinds of parallels.

Faulkner is, of course, talking about war and the insanity of a war that has so little meaning and costs so many lives, and the political reasons that countries remain mired in such battles. WWI is the perfect example, but we have seen a few more in my lifetime. He is also, I think, talking about life itself. The incomprehensible way men are chained to professions, lifestyles, poverty, injustice...all the things in life that hold us back because we allow others to impose them upon us. Because we do not recognize that some of the choice and some of the power is ours if we were willing to face it together and just say "no".

I'm convinced Faulkner was trying to sort the moral issues out for himself and in the end was unsuccessful. I do not think there is a clear and certain interpretation of the allegory. I could, myself, make a case for at least two directly opposed philosophies. I think this is one book where you can view the themes in the light you chose and no one could prove you wrong.

I haven not even found time to pick this up since I last posted. I will be reading it throughout July with my other July reads.

I have come back to this and applaud those that finished and could make something out of it because I am having problems on a first read. I will definitely need another read and probably will look at some criticism as well. Since the book has mostly negative criticism, it is difficult to find critics that are writing much other than a negative opinion. One book I wish to read is Keen Butterworth's Critical and Textual Study of Faulkner's a Fable but it is OOP, overly priced used, and I think I am going to have to road trip to a nearby university library to read it.

But I am fascinated with Faulkner's parallel story lines of this period and A Fable has some interesting ones. Sara brought up the racehorse rescue story. This has really interested me in relation to the main story line because it functions as an escape, an idyll from the harshness of the main allegory but because it is a tall tale, impossible in reality, it is probably also serving as an allegory drawing connections seems essential to understanding the novel. I think everyone else has either finished or moved on from this book . Anyone still reading?

I finished some time ago, Sam, and I agree that it is a book that begs to be read more than once and truly analyzed. I don't, however, think I have the stamina for that kind of scholarly pursuit anymore.

I found the horse story very interesting, since it seems to me to be the only part of the novel that seemed truly Faulknerian in style. He knew exactly where he wanted that portion of the story to go. I think he struggled himself with some of the themes and issues and I am unsure that, in the end, he ever completely sorted them.

As always seems to be the case for me when reading Faulkner, I find myself casting back to this from time to time and wondering about some detail or thread that hasn't quite tied itself up in my mind. I think your reference to Catch-22 was inspired! Both books left me with a similar sense of the unreal nature of the very real war.