Catching up on Classics (and lots more!) discussion

This the thread for the July 2025 buddy read of The Widows of Eastwick by John Updike.

I've started. Even though my memory is imperfect, it seems so far to be enough that I do not (yet) feel the need to reread The Witches of Eastwick.

I have also started and agree a reread of Witches is unnecessary.

I read The Witches of Eastwick in 2019 and gave it 4*. My only negative in the review was that I thought the sex was too explicitly described. There are a few books that I felt that way about, and it just turns out they were all written by male authors. That's probably an over generalization though.

This has not been an easy book for me to locate. My local library, both physical and ebook, did not have a copy available. I have ordered a used paperback from Amazon that should arrive this week. The Kindle version is much too expensive even with their discount.

Reading Part 1 of 3
About the reference to Egyptian Queen Hatshepsut.
She was one of several Egyptian queens described in When Women Ruled the World: Six Queens of Egypt by Kara Cooney. This is experience of being erased from history just for being a woman and not a man happens all the time. . . . Fits into the novel because Alexandra and Jane are experiencing the invisibility of older women.

Quote.
Part 1 of 3
Great Wall tour guide talking about invasions:

As history makes clear, there is no keeping barbarians out. They always eventually win. Energy comes from below, from the excluded and oppressed, from those with nothing to lose. It's like water in a pot on a stove: the hottest, on the bottom, rise to the top.

I am looking forward to seeing how Updike will develop this idea for our (former?) witches???

Cynda is preoccupied with RL wrote: "Quote.
Part 1 of 3
Great Wall tour guide talking about invasions:
As history makes clear, there is no keeping barbarians out. They always eventually win. Energy comes from below, from the excluded ..."

Did you mean Steinbeck or Updike? Since I haven't started reading yet, perhaps there's something I don't know about a character Steinbeck?

No. Sorry. I am correcting now.

At about a third into the book, there is much of a travelogue about this book. Was Updike compelled to write about his own travels on Canada and China?

The description of the Great Wall of China and the reference to barbarians worked out to be about right. The witches were a bit barbarian and they did return to/invade Eastwick.

In literature in felt like a stretch. Yet in real life, the women might have asked each other: Do you think it was sign?

The science fiction felt like a stretch, yet I suspect it is like the Great Wall of China description--makes sense even of forced. Yet in real life science might be used in a battle against witches.

The witches do not seem quite so invisible once they are back in Eastwick. They are seen by the townspeople pretty much the same as they were perceived years ago, even though in the many years that have passed, at least in Alexandra’s case, they have somewhat changed. That is the way things are in small towns, though. No one escapes their past when they return no matter how much they have changed or accomplished.

I am about 150 pages into the book. I wonder if others are sensing the same thing I am — that Updike, using words like “villainesses” and “corruption”, is much less an observer and more judgmental of our widows than he was when they were younger.

"Maleficia" refers to harmful deeds or acts of sorcery, often associated with witchcraft and the Devil.

I spent most of the day reading and have now finished the book. While I found the first half of the book only mildly engaging, the second half packed a punch. Updike worked his magic again. I will wait for you to catch up.

I have finished the novel too, Terry. The first part was a good set up for the second part, & the second part did pack a punch :)

How much fun Updike must have had while writing that less-than-sparkling writing of Sukie. Sometimes bad writing provides its own delights.

I am glad Updike returned to the story to complete it. Again the narrator does seem a bit heavy-handed, here with his descriptive words. Yet I see how important it is that the reader know the power of the guilt and the importance of the amends. The witches remain highly imperfect, interesting and human.

Lynn, are you reading the book?

What do others make of the 24-year gap in books? I am thinking Updike and his original audience may have had to mature and ripen before the second book could be written and understood.

Yes. We needed to age along with them.

Hello. My book arrived 2 or 3 days ago. I am beginning but not too far along. So far the things that have struck me are about characters and Updike's narrative style.

I can't help but compare Jane and Alexandra to Gilliam and Sally Owens from Practical Magic and I like the Owens sisters better. They are more likeable; yet perhaps that is the point. As I think someone mentioned above the older women are now dealing with the guilt from their previous actions.

About Updike - his narrative style is to throw out a lot of opinions. Perhaps he puts more opinions, musings, per page than any other author I can think of. It's like the proverbial "let's throw all the ideas against the wall and see which one sticks". Some I find tedious, a rare one will make me mad and want to stop reading, and a few I find fresh and interesting.

Something I agree with but have never seen in print before is the question, Is travel worth it? - I agree that it often feels you're being dragged from one place to another for no purpose. Also, I have a fear of traveling to certain locations on the globe. I personally don't want to see certain sights and would prefer to stay home. I have never seen anyone express this before in a novel.

But they do overcome that so we have a story.

Something I don't get at all is the idea of having a first husband to produce children and a second husband for love. Being the product of a complicated family I never wanted to add that sort of complication to my children's lives. Also, (getting personal here) I like the person I am when I'm with my husband, and I wouldn't want to go through the changes and compromises that a second one would bring. I guess the point of this book is that the witches don't like who they are and are trying to find new lives. They don't seem satisfied anywhere for long. Perhaps the root of witchcraft/evil is discontent.

Ok those were just some random thoughts. I need to get past the traveling part to catch up with you all.

More thoughts about travel.

1. I hate traveling. Our honeymoon was to Jamaica in 1985. So many of the descriptions of Egypt with the stalls and the camel owner remind me of that trip. I love my husband, but I can't stand Jamaica. We learned then that I prefer Florida to the Caribbean. Well, honestly give me a cabin in the woods, and since we live so close to the Appalachian Mountains it's not really "traveling".

2. The talk about Pharaohs and museums made me think that immortality sounds like a terrible goal if it means being dug up and put on display for hoards of future generations to pass by and look at your body. This seems like a curse.

Lynn, thanks for all of your comments. I do agree with your curse comment! How awful that would be!

I have known others who hate to travel. At this point in his life, my husband refuses to get on an airplane. I am at the point where I prefer to travel in the United States and have always liked driving better than flying.

Regarding the choice of husbands, many women make their first choice when they are too young and haven’t the maturity to make a wise decision. Some may also feel the pressure of their biological time clock. In some cultures today, as we know, women don’t have the luxury of choosing their first partner. So, after divorce or death of the first, I believe that more wisely choosing a second is quite common. Lucky is the person who chooses right the first time.

I relate well to your feeling that you are a better person with your husband, because I feel the same about mine. I was 32 when we got married. We have certainly had our ups and downs, but after 43 years, I can say without equivocation that it was the right choice.

I didn’t much care for the traveling part of the book. I hope you are enjoying this more as you read on.

Terry wrote: "Lynn, thanks for all of your comments. I do agree with your curse comment! How awful that would be!

I have known others who hate to travel. At this point in his life, my husband refuses to get on..."

I agree with your husband. I see no reason to fly. I will drive places as long as we don't spend more than 6 hours on any given day in the car. No more driving through the night to hit the beach a day earlier!

We have literature we call coming of age, meaning that children are leaving one stage of life for another where they glimpse adult concerns. . . . .What shall we call this literature where middle agers act out as though freed from the oppression of living more or less by the rules and then find that a calmer way is a wiser way. Maybe this type of literature might be the crowning of the crone? Crowning not only the regality that sometimes comes with age and experience but also about being born?

As Americans age, we are likely to see such literature more, in the same way we are seeing more about middle age and elderly romances.

Cynda wrote: "We have literature we call coming of age, meaning that children are leaving one stage of life for another where they glimpse adult concerns. . . . .What shall we call this literature where middle a..."

You're so right that this book is about a "season" of life. A season where the good or bad that one has done takes its toll/revenge?

LOL still working on the book. There has been a death so far.