Persephone Books discussion

Despised and Rejected. Who is up for this one this month?

An interesting piece on the book.

https://www.allinoneboat.org/despised...

I found a copy of this one available on Internet Archive.

https://archive.org/details/despisedr...

Brilliant, in that case I'm in!

Excellent. I look forward to your thoughts on this one. It looks really interesting.

Tania wrote: "Excellent. I look forward to your thoughts on this one. It looks really interesting."

Thanks for tracking it down, read the intro and really excited. I hadn't realised it was so controversial at the time or registered much about it. Also fascinated by WW1 novels.

Indeed. Persephone calls it 'brave and brilliant'. I haven't started yet, so I don't know about brilliant, but certainly brave. I believe the author was arrested under the Defence of the Realm Act, for potentially undermining the recruitment drive.

Here is a Persephone Persective on the book. https://persephonebooks.co.uk/blogs/t...

Thanks for the background links on this, Tania! I got this on inter-library loan, and I just got an email that it's ready for me at the library - so I'll be starting it soon. :)

Great news. I'll be starting very soon.

Thank you so much for sharing the copy! I'm in.

I just finished this one, one thing that really struck me was how much shame Dennis felt about being gay (understandably), and it hadn't occurred to Antoinette to feel that way. I think male homosexuality was harder to hide because it was viewed as a threat to masculinity, which is more valued? I don't know, I'm having a hard time putting that into words.
Another thing that stood out to me was how much pressure young men were under who chose not to enlist. People were not shy about sharing their opinions (and it was usually people who were not able to or expected to enlist). And it sounds like the hearings really weren't fair either - it was tough to be a pacifist in that environment.

Gina wrote: "I just finished this one, one thing that really struck me was how much shame Dennis felt about being gay (understandably), and it hadn't occurred to Antoinette to feel that way. I think male homose..."

Being a lesbian in England was largely unrecognised. However being gay had been criminalised and harshly punished for hundreds of years so far more dangerous and far more openly stigmatised and vilified. The Buggery Act was in force from around 1533 to 1861. Men could be, and were, executed for having sex with each other - sometimes based purely on suspicion. The last two were hanged in 1835.

The law changed from prosecution for 'buggery' i.e. anal sex in 1861 to the vaguer 'unnatural acts' which meant that even sending an affectionate letter to another man could put someone at risk of arrest and penal servitude. The Oscar Wilde trial was still live in the public imagination in Dennis's time.

Also public schools often had systems for monitoring and policing boys' sexual behaviour including the equivalent of chastity belts meant to prevent masturbation. So far more emphasis on what was/wasn't acceptable/shameful. Even as mainstream attitudes gradually changed, they weren't in gay men's favour, being gay was then framed as a form of mental illness. So could be confined in an asylum or, like Alan Turing, chemically castrated. And these attitudes were exported to British colonies - many of the harsh anti-homosexuality laws that still exist in various former colonies are the result of laws introduced during the days of the British Empire.

Alwynne wrote: "Gina wrote: "I just finished this one, one thing that really struck me was how much shame Dennis felt about being gay (understandably), and it hadn't occurred to Antoinette to feel that way. I thin..."

Thanks for that historical context, Alwynne! Yes, that really provides a stark contrast and explains why Dennis felt the fear/shame and Antoinette didn't.

Gina wrote: "Alwynne wrote: "Gina wrote: "I just finished this one, one thing that really struck me was how much shame Dennis felt about being gay (understandably), and it hadn't occurred to Antoinette to feel ..."

Thanks was worried it was a bit much! I find it hard to get my head around sometimes too. I've read so much about queer identity and the Bloomsbury Group and their followers from Duncan Grant and Bunny Grant to Lytton Strachey and E. M. Forster I don't always fully appreciate just how radical those kinds of literary, political and artistic circles were in comparison to mainstream society.

I have had very little time for reading this book, but have some time off coming up so hopefully will be able to finish up soon. (Then I can read through the comments).

I was struck by the scene with organising the dance, and hoping to be able to get Antoinette, yet another girl, invited in return for the loan of fruit knives and an excellent parlour maid. This was pre WW1, though only just, so there was a severe shortage of men for dances even then. I have probably come across this in previous Edwardian novels and just not thought about the timing of it before.