Dickensians! discussion

This is the thread to discuss the second half of Robinson Crusoe by Daniel Defoe. This book was one of Charles Dickens's personal favourites, which he read over and over again.

Erich is providing a fantastic reading experience for this group read, and will again link all the daily chapters to the beginning of this thread.

****Please allow Erich to comment first and give details! Thank you.

LINKS TO READING SECTIONS: (ongoing)


(Chapter 15)

"But being now in the eleventh Year of my Residence..." to "...But now I come to a new Scene of my Life." (32 paragraphs)

(Chapter 16)

"It happen’d one Day about Noon..." to "...the other Pieces of Ground I had work’d so hard at." (28 paragraphs)

---break day—

(Chapter 17)

"I immediately went to Work..." to "...in Defence of my own Life." (26 paragraphs)

---break day—

(Chapter 18)

"In this Disposition I continu’d..." to "...my last Years of solitary Residence in this Island." (19 paragraphs)

(Chapter 19)

"It was now the month of December…" to "...the last was to me of ten times more value than the first." (24 paragraphs)

---break day—

(Chapter 20)

"It was now calm..." to "...till I might have come again and fetch'd it." (11 paragraphs)

(Chapter 20 cont.)

"Having now brought all my Things on Shore..." to "...no Savages came near me for a great while." (15 paragraphs)

(Chapter 21)

"About a Year and half after I had entertain’d these Notions..." to "...which I was very glad to hear." (22 paragraphs)

---two break days—

(Chapter 22)

"The next Day I set him to work..." to "...and take every Part in its order." (33 paragraphs)

(Chapter 23)

"After Friday and I became more intimately acquainted..." to "...at the Distance of about eighty Yards." (29 paragraphs)

---break day—

(Chapter 24)

"I had now not a Moment to loose..." to "...and another to cover them on each Bed." (16 paragraphs)

(Chapter 25)

"My Island was now peopl’d..." to "...by which they seem to be brought to their Destruction." (41 paragraphs)

---break day—

(Chapter 26)

"It was just at the Top of High-Water..." to "...for Reasons of State." (71 paragraphs)

(Chapter 27)

"Out next Work was to repair the Boat..." to "...having been thirty and five Years absent." (52 paragraphs)

---two break days—

(Chapter 28)

"When I came to England…" to "...I prepar’d to go for England with all my Wealth." (35 paragraphs)

(Chapter 29)

"In order to prepare things..." to "...so we left him, and went forward on our Journey." (37 paragraphs)

(Chapter 30)

"The Ground was still cover’d with Snow..." to "...FINIS" (34 paragraphs)

Summary of (Chapter 15)

Robinson had been on the island for more than ten years, and his supply of ammunition had grown very low, so he turned his thoughts to methods for capturing goats to form a tame herd. He tried to trap them with snares, but the materials he had available were not strong enough.

Eventually, he dug large pits and baited them. He captured one old male goat in one trap and three kids - a male and two females - in a second. The older goat was so fierce that Robinson didn’t attempt to capture it alive but simply let it go. Tying the younger goats together with string, he led them to his settlement.

After a few days, the kids began to eat, and Robinson was hopeful that he would be able to tame them. However, he would have to somehow keep them separate from the wild goats on the island, or they would simply run wild again. Therefore, he set to work on creating an enclosure for them using a living hedge like the one he had used for his enclosure. He chose an open piece of meadow with a water source and started.

His original plan was to enclose a large piece of ground, but after he had completed about fifty yards of the first side he realized that, if the enclosure were too big, the goats would simply run wild within it and defeat his purpose. As a result, he adjusted his plan to fence in an area of about 100 yards by 150 yards.

During the time he was working on the fence, Robinson kept the goats near him while he worked and gave them frequent treats. By the time the fence was complete, the goats were completely tame, and within two years he had a flock of 34 goats.

After fencing in the meadow, Robinson enclosed additional smaller pieces of ground adjacent to the main enclosure that he could drive them into for various purposes. In addition to goat meat, Robinson relied on his flock for milk and later learned to make butter and cheese as well in his “Dairy.” As he recalls the various animals now in his enclosure - his old and now senile dog, his parrot Poll, and two descendants of his original cats - the narrator reflects,

It would have made a Stoick smile to have seen, me and my little Family sit down to Dinner; there was my Majesty the Prince and Lord of the whole Island; I had the Lives of all my Subjects at my absolute Command. I could hang, draw, give Liberty, and take it away, and no Rebels among all my Subjects.

Robinson began to consider more and more how he might go about retrieving the canoe he had left on the north side of the island. He finally decided to make an expedition there, following the shore. The narrator describes how, were he to be seen by people in England in his outfit, “it must either have frightened them, or rais’d a great deal of Laughter.” He wore “a great high shapeless Cap, made of a Goat’s Skin, with a Flap hanging down behind;” a short jacket, also made of goat skin; hairy breeches that hung down to his knees; crudely made goatskin boots; and a goatskin belt from which hung tools such as a saw and hatchet. Over his shoulder hung a scabbard to carry his gun, equipped with pouches for powder and shot, and he carried his goatskin umbrella in his hand. He kept his beard short but sported “a large Pair of Mahometan Whiskers” that “in England would have pass’d for frightful.”

When Robinson arrived at an overlook near the place in which he had secreted his boat, he was surprised to see that the sea was quite calm, and he saw no sign of the powerful currents he had struggled against on his earlier voyage. After observing the set of the tides, he understood that the current passed nearer or farther from shore depending on the prevailing winds. Even though it seemed that he simply must wait until the proper time to go around the point, the memory of his previous adventure was so terrifying that he decided to leave the canoe on that side of the island and construct a second one for his own side.

By this time, Robinson had developed his “Plantations” considerably. The hedges had grown to the point that his main habitation was completely hidden, and he had added several additional rooms to his cave which he used to store his grain and other provisions in baskets and clay pots. As before, he used the fields he had cleared and fenced near his enclosure to raise his crop of grain.

At his “Country Seat,” the hedges had grown wild and provided shade for his tent within the enclosure, and he had created a “Couch” with animal skins and a blanket from the ship. There, also, were the pens and fields he had created for his herd of goats, the hedges grown strong and impenetrable. He continued to grow grapes and preserve them as raisins, “the best and most agreeable Dainty of my whole Diet.” Since the “Bower” was near the midpoint of the path from his coastal house to the boat on the other side of the island, Robinson frequently stayed there and kept things very orderly. He used his canoe often, but he stayed very close to shore for fear of being swept away again.

from Psalm 78

Crusoe alludes to Psalm 78 when he exclaims, "What a Table was here spread for me in a Wilderness, where I saw nothing at first but to perish for Hunger." Psalm 78 is a historical narrative written by Asaph that recounts the rebelliousness of the Israelites and God's repeated acts of deliverance. It serves as a spiritual lesson, warning against seven deadly sins: rebellion, forgetfulness, faithlessness, covetousness, deceit, ingratitude, and idolatry. An excerpt:

9 The men of Ephraim, though armed with bows, turned back on the day of battle;
10 they did not keep God’s covenant and refused to live by his law.
11 They forgot what he had done, the wonders he had shown them.
12 He did miracles in the sight of their ancestors in the land of Egypt, in the region of Zoan.
13 He divided the sea and led them through; he made the water stand up like a wall.
14 He guided them with the cloud by day and with light from the fire all night.
15 He split the rocks in the wilderness and gave them water as abundant as the seas;
16 he brought streams out of a rocky crag and made water flow down like rivers.

17 But they continued to sin against him, rebelling in the wilderness against the Most High.
18 They willfully put God to the test by demanding the food they craved.
19 They spoke against God; they said, “Can God really spread a table in the wilderness?
20 True, he struck the rock, and water gushed out, streams flowed abundantly, but can he also give us bread? Can he supply meat for his people?”
21 When the Lord heard them, he was furious; his fire broke out against Jacob, and his wrath rose against Israel,
22 for they did not believe in God or trust in his deliverance.
23 Yet he gave a command to the skies above and opened the doors of the heavens;
24 he rained down manna for the people to eat, he gave them the grain of heaven.
25 Human beings ate the bread of angels; he sent them all the food they could eat.
26 He let loose the east wind from the heavens and by his power made the south wind blow.
27 He rained meat down on them like dust, birds like sand on the seashore.
28 He made them come down inside their camp, all around their tents.
29 They ate till they were gorged—he had given them what they craved.
30 But before they turned from what they craved, even while the food was still in their mouths,
31 God’s anger rose against them; he put to death the sturdiest among them, cutting down the young men of Israel.

The Theme of Robinson Crusoe

from E.M.W. Tillyard in Twentieth Century Interpretations of Robinson Crusoe; A Collection of Critical Essays

You can describe the plot of Robinson Crusoe in several ways; and this possible multiplicity is one reason why the book holds us so strongly. You can begin by describing it as a version of the story of the Prodigal Son, references to which, either implied or stated, occur often in the opening pages. Robinson is the Prodigal who leaves his father's house against advice, who ruins himself not by riotous living but by a roaming disposition, who is left solitary and apparently desolate, who repents, and returns to his father (now in the form of God), and for whom God as it were kills the fatted calf, blessing him with abundance on the island and restoring him to favour and lordship. [...]

Or you can describe the book in terms not unlike the progression from Do-well through Do-bet to Do-best in Piers Plowman: the progression from the practical life to the life of contemplation in its turn fitting man for an existence where action and contemplation are combined. Crusoe, at first making a wreck of his life, rehabilitates himself on the island, beginning with his success in making the best practical job of his condition, then brought, through his solitude and his perils, face to face with God, and finally (view spoiler)[returning to society and meeting its problems in a way he could not do in his first state. (hide spoiler)]

Or, most justly of all, you can describe the book in more abstract theological terms. Crusoe is Everyman, abounding in Original Sin, falling into specific folly and crime, incriminated more and more through repeated opportunities granted him by God for amendment, yet one of the Elect whom God has mysteriously reserved to be saved through chastisement.

And so we begin the second half of our book. Over to you!

Congrats on starting the second half of the book!
This chapter contains some foreshadowing and hints that prepare us for changes on the island.

This is a peaceful time for Robinson. It makes sense that after 10 years of island life he's settled into a routine and pattern for his existence. He's figured out the island's rhythms and seasons. It seems quite peaceful.

He's also been very productive by ensuring his future needs. It shows his maturing self, perhaps, that he looks forward and prepares for those needs.

Psalm 78 ends rather ominously. God gives the Isrealites everything they need and want. Then he strikes them down.
Robinson is now getting everything he needs and wants. Will he also be struck down?
There is a difference in the Isrealites and Robinson, though. The Isrealites "did not believe in God or trust in his deliverance". Robinson does. Perhaps that will be his salvation and he won't be struck down?

Plateresca: "This chapter contains some foreshadowing and hints that prepare us for changes on the island."

As Petra wrote, RC has gotten into a "routine and pattern for his existence." It does feel like a calm before the storm, though.

The idyllic and almost utopian life that RC enjoys, away from society and temptation, has been seen as a thematic reversion to pre-pubescence (the return to Eden). That stage of life must be left behind in order to complete development.

Petra: "Psalm 78 ends rather ominously."

In the excerpt, I included stanzas to give context for the "table in the wilderness," but the excerpt does not include the end of the Psalm.

Most of Psalm 78 is about the disobedience and punishment of the tribe of Ephraim (Joseph), the people who were not chosen by God. It ends with God choosing the tribe of Judah (David):

68 but he chose the tribe of Judah, Mount Zion, which he loved.
69 He built his sanctuary like the heights, like the earth that he established forever.
70 He chose David his servant and took him from the sheep pens;
71 from tending the sheep he brought him to be the shepherd of his people Jacob, of Israel his inheritance.
72 And David shepherded them with integrity of heart; with skillful hands he led them.

So, it is not clear if Defoe a) included the reference as simply a biblical saying that was familiar to many readers, b) associates RC with the people of Ephraim, c) associates RC with the people of Judah, or perhaps d) associates RC with both Ephraim and Judah!

Summary of (Chapter 16)

One day, as Robinson was going to his boat, he was shocked to see a human footprint on the beach. He combed the shore for additional prints and went to a higher spot to scan the area, but he did not see any other sign of people. He thought he might be imagining the print, but when he returned to it he saw, undeniably, a complete and perfect human footprint. Terrified, he returned to his enclosure to hide.

He spent a sleepless night, fancying that the print was the work of the devil since there were no other prints or evidence of humans. He reasoned, though, that Satan would not have chosen this way to terrify him, especially when it was so unlikely that Robinson would have even seen the print.

Next, he postulated that it was a print from one of the “Savages” who had come from the mainland in a canoe and then went away. He felt lucky not to have come upon them or to have had them discover his boat and search him out. Then the thought occurred to him that perhaps they had seen his boat and would return soon in greater numbers. He imagined them invading his enclosure and desolating his fields and flocks, causing him to starve on the island at last. The narrator reflects,

Thus my Fear banish’d all my religious Hope; all that former Confidence in God which was founded upon such wonderful Experience as I had had of his Goodness, now vanished, as if he that had fed me by Miracle hitherto, could not preserve by his Power the Provision which he had made for me by his Goodness.

Robinson chided himself for living so frugally that he did not have an extra stock of food in case of such an emergency, and he resolved in the future to store two or three years’ supply.

Thinking back on this time in his life, the narrator highlights the inconstancy of human emotions. For so long, Robinson had dreamed of escaping his solitude and returning to society, and yet now evidence of a human being caused him to tremble with fear.

As Robinson processed his experience over the next weeks, he realized that his reaction to the footprint was in a way questioning God’s wisdom and authority:

as I was his Creature, [God] had an undoubted Right by Creation to govern and dispose of me absolutely as he thought fit; and who, as I was a Creature who had offended him, had likewise a judicial Right to condemn me to what Punishment he thought fit; and that it was my Part to submit to bear his Indignation, because I had sinn’d against him.

Even so, he was not able to overcome his fear until he recalled that the Bible commanded, “Call upon me in the Day of Trouble, and I will deliver, and thou shalt glorify me.” These words gave him great peace of mind, and he was even more comforted when he opened the book by chance to the words: “Wait on the Lord, and be of good Cheer, and he shall strengthen thy Heart; wait, I say, on the Lord.”

In his fearful state of mind, Robinson had stayed indoors for three days, when the thought came to him that perhaps the footprint had been his own and he “might be truly said to start at my Shadow.” This, and the lack of provisions in the cave, encouraged him to go out to secure food and tend to his flocks. He also resolved to return to the footprint to measure it against his own foot and reassure himself that it was indeed his own.

However, when Robinson returned to the spot where he had seen the footprint, he realized that he had not been near that place when he had gone to the shore. Also, he found upon comparing the footprint with his own foot that it was made by a foot much larger than his own.

Once again, he was petrified by the thought that other men had visited the island and that he might be surprised by them at any time, and he returned to his enclosure to hide and decide how to respond. Another sleepless night saw him obsessing about the danger he faced from intruders. Driven by his fear, he felt an impulse to destroy any sign of his habitation on the island to avoid being discovered.

After finally managing a good night’s sleep, Robinson was able to think more clearly and calmly. He reasoned that the island was uninhabited but that it appeared that it was visited from time to time by people from the mainland. These people seemed not to remain on the island for long when they visited, as this was the first time in his fifteen years on the island that Robinson had seen evidence of visitors. All that he would need to do if they did come would be to stay out of sight, and they would soon go away again.

Robinson turned his thoughts to improving the security of his enclosure. He regretted creating an exit door in the cave since it would allow enemies to invade his home, so he spent the next months extending the living fence to encircle the door and built a double wall with musket holes in the outer wall for protection.

Because Robinson feared losing his entire herd of goats should they be discovered, he also enclosed additional plots of land on various parts of the island and divided his flock between them.

from Psalm 50

The words that occur to Robinson during his days of terror are taken from Psalm 50, which emphasizes the importance of sincere worship and moral living. It highlights God’s authority as the ultimate judge as well as God’s disdain for empty rituals. An excerpt:

7 “Listen, my people, and I will speak; I will testify against you, Israel: I am God, your God.
8 I bring no charges against you concerning your sacrifices or concerning your burnt offerings, which are ever before me.
9 I have no need of a bull from your stall or of goats from your pens,
10 for every animal of the forest is mine, and the cattle on a thousand hills.
11 I know every bird in the mountains, and the insects in the fields are mine.
12 If I were hungry I would not tell you, for the world is mine, and all that is in it.
13 Do I eat the flesh of bulls or drink the blood of goats?

14 “Sacrifice thank offerings to God, fulfill your vows to the Most High,
15 and call on me in the day of trouble; I will deliver you, and you will honor me.”

Psalm 27

When Robinson uses the Bible as a sort of divination tool, the pages fall open to Psalm 27. Psalm 27 is attributed to King David and is a declaration of faith and trust in God. The complete Psalm:

1 The Lord is my light and my salvation—whom shall I fear? The Lord is the stronghold of my life—of whom shall I be afraid?

2 When the wicked advance against me to devour me,
it is my enemies and my foes who will stumble and fall.
3 Though an army besiege me, my heart will not fear;
though war break out against me, even then I will be confident.

4 One thing I ask from the Lord, this only do I seek: that I may dwell in the house of the Lord all the days of my life, to gaze on the beauty of the Lord and to seek him in his temple.
5 For in the day of trouble he will keep me safe in his dwelling; he will hide me in the shelter of his sacred tent and set me high upon a rock.

6 Then my head will be exalted above the enemies who surround me; at his sacred tent I will sacrifice with shouts of joy; I will sing and make music to the Lord.

7 Hear my voice when I call, Lord; be merciful to me and answer me.
8 My heart says of you, “Seek his face!” Your face, Lord, I will seek.
9 Do not hide your face from me, do not turn your servant away in anger; you have been my helper. Do not reject me or forsake me, God my Savior.
10 Though my father and mother forsake me, the Lord will receive me.
11 Teach me your way, Lord; lead me in a straight path because of my oppressors.
12 Do not turn me over to the desire of my foes, for false witnesses rise up against me, spouting malicious accusations.

13 I remain confident of this: I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living.
14 Wait for the Lord; be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord.

1 Samuel 28

During the attack of "Vapours" brought on by the footprint, Robinson realizes that the resignation to God's will that he had practiced during his day-to-day existence evaporated immediately once he faced a crisis. He compares himself to "Saul, who complain'd not only that the Philistines were upon him; but that God had forsaken him." The comparison is based on 1 Samuel 28, which emphasizes the dangers of forsaking God's guidance, engaging in forbidden spiritual practices, and neglecting to repent.

Samuel, the first prophet, anointed Saul as the first king of Israel. Later in his reign, Saul disobeyed God in three significant ways:

1) When Saul was preparing for battle against the Philistines, Samuel had instructed him to wait for seven days so that Samuel could arrive and offer sacrifices to God. When Samuel didn't arrive on time, Saul took matters into his own hands and offered the sacrifices himself. Because only priests or prophets like Samuel were authorized to offer sacrifices, Saul's actions showed impiety and impatience.

2) Through Samuel, God commanded Saul to completely destroy the Amalekites and everything they possessed as judgment for their past sins. However, Saul spared King Agag, either because of pity or because of his rank as a fellow king. God had forbidden spoils, but Saul kept the best of the livestock for himself, claiming that he later intended to sacrifice them to God. He only partially obeyed God's clear and direct command.

3) Early in his reign, Saul had expelled the mediums and spiritists from Israel since such practices were condemned as abominations according to God's laws. However, after the death of Samuel, Saul faced increasing pressure from the Philistine army and felt abandoned by God because of his earlier disobedience. When God did not respond through his dreams to requests for guidance, Saul resorted to disguising himself and seeking out a medium to communicate with Samuel.

When the medium had raised the ghost of Samuel:

15 Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?”

“I am in great distress,” Saul said. “The Philistines are fighting against me, and God has departed from me. He no longer answers me, either by prophets or by dreams. So I have called on you to tell me what to do.”

16 Samuel said, “Why do you consult me, now that the Lord has departed from you and become your enemy? 17 The Lord has done what he predicted through me. The Lord has torn the kingdom out of your hands and given it to one of your neighbors—to David. 18 Because you did not obey the Lord or carry out his fierce wrath against the Amalekites, the Lord has done this to you today. 19 The Lord will deliver both Israel and you into the hands of the Philistines, and tomorrow you and your sons will be with me. The Lord will also give the army of Israel into the hands of the Philistines.”

The Footprint

Today's reading includes the most well-known scene in Robinson Crusoe. Here are depictions by our featured artists:


Robinson Crusoe discovers the print of a man's foot
Thomas Stothard, 1782


Crusoe discovers a human footprint on the beach
George Cruikshank, 1831


Crusoe finds the print of a man's foot
Edward Henry Wehnert, 1862


Crusoe sees a Footprint in the Sand
George Housman Thomas, 1863


I stood like one thunderstruck
Wal Paget, 1891

This was an especially rich chapter, full of excitement and peppered with biblical allusions. We will have an extra day for reading and discussion, and we will continue with the next section on Wednesday.

Looking forward to your comments!

What a terrifying time for Robinson! His mind was running so rapidly in fear that he could hardly think straight. He remembered the stories he heard about cannibals so his fear is understandable. He's fortifying his home and planning on storing greater quantities of food for the future.

This is the first time I've read the book and I previously thought it was mostly an adventure story, but I now realize how much of it is religious. Repenting for past digressions, putting trust in God, and submitting to God's will are important themes in the story.

Erich, thank you for including the wonderful illustrations and a refresh on the Psalms.

So Robinson is facing the most common problem, and the most difficult one: neighbours.

I only wish one could make a fence as easy as that, just dig in some sticks and wait till they become an impassable grove!

The attacks of anxiety are described very realistically and recognizably: the initial terror; the attempts to convince oneself that this is all somehow a mistake; and the way it gets worse when these attempts fail.

Again, Robinson's reaction to the footprint is very different in all the illustrations: baffled; terrified... Paget's 'thunderstruck' is my favourite one :)

Connie: "This is the first time I've read the book and I previously thought it was mostly an adventure story, but I now realize how much of it is religious. Repenting for past digressions, putting trust in God, and submitting to God's will are important themes in the story."

Absolutely! And those elements position Robinson Crusoe in the tradition of spiritual biography, following writers such as John Bunyan. Here is a passage from an essay by J. Paul Hunter printed in my Norton edition:

Readers of The Pilgrim's Progress, as well as of Grace Abounding, will recognize the basic pattern of spiritual biography, for ultimately the pilgrimage of an allegorical figure through life is not far from the typical journey through life of a real person. Robinson Crusoe is shaped more directly by the pilgrim allegories which grow out of the spiritual biography tradition, but the line of ancestry is clear. The organizational pattern of Robinson Crusoe follows chronological lines, but, as in a typical spiritual biography, a thematic superstructure is the real unifying principle. Events in Robinson Crusoe, like those in spiritual biographies, are validated relative to the total pattern of an individual's life, and the events are "improved" appropriately in order to draw the reader himself to a special view of religion and to a personal practice of higher morality.

Plateresca wrote: "So Robinson is facing the most common problem, and the most difficult one: neighbours.

I only wish one could make a fence as easy as that, just dig in some sticks and wait till they become an impassable grove!"

That's hilarious! As a person with both neighbors and a fence to replace, I can completely relate.

As you point out, Defoe very effectively captures the mental anguish that RC experiences. He doesn't just have Robinson become frightened and then immediately comfort himself, but he goes through cycles of fear and doubt.

Wow, what a rich section for sure. We have the feeling now that RC has established himself living a solitary life yet, he must seek out and desire human interaction. His initial reaction to seeing a footprint is fear so he obviously believes it is an enemy. It’s just interesting to think about. I think we’d all react the same way. RC taught his parrot to talk and say his name and ask him questions. This is the only sound of a voice he has had for 15 (?) years! It’s bound to be something one would desire in a time of solitary existence.

I do like the theme of RC as the Everyman that ERICH described in message 5.

Or, most justly of all, you can describe the book in more abstract theological terms. Crusoe is Everyman, abounding in Original Sin, falling into specific folly and crime, incriminated more and more through repeated opportunities granted him by God for amendment, yet one of the Elect whom God has mysteriously reserved to be saved through chastisement.

He has confronted things that are tempting for all of us like greed and pride and now fear. We can understand his feelings and frustrations because we have experienced them ourselves. We can relate to him. We are witnessing him grow in his knowledge, learning to do tasks and make things he’d never have done, as well as seeing him increase his faith in God.

Lori: "Wow, what a rich section for sure. We have the feeling now that RC has established himself living a solitary life yet, he must seek out and desire human interaction."

Humans are social animals and being alone and without support from others is often life-threatening. However, RC knows that any person who comes to the island is likely to be a "Savage" and a threat, and he has heard many tales of cannibals. I wonder what his reaction would have been if the print had been of a shoe rather than a naked foot.

As you write, Lori, we can relate to many of the feelings that RC experiences, especially post-COVID!

Summary of (Chapter 17)

Robinson enclosed a new piece of ground during the next month and moved ten female goats along with two male goats there in order to divide his flock.

Two years passed, during which his sense of uneasiness never left him. Not only did his fear affect the practical parts of his life, but Robinson no longer prayed with the “Calmness and Resignation of Soul” that had been his wont; instead, he “pray’d to God as under great Affliction and Pressure of Mind, surrounded with Danger, and in Expectation every Night of being murther’d and devour’d before Morning.”

As he searched for a second new plot of ground to further divide his goats, Robinson journeyed to the western part of the island. Looking out to sea, he thought he saw a boat in the distance, but the object was too far away for him to be certain.

As he came down the hill to the southwest corner of the island, where he had never been before now, he was horrified to see that the shore was “spread with Skulls, Hands, Feet, and other Bones of humane Bodies,” and he could also see a barbecue pit dug into the earth, where cannibals had roasted their victims. Robinson vomited in disgust and left the area as quickly as he could.

It appeared that this part of the island was frequented by “savages” as a feasting ground; it was only by “Providence” that Robinson had been shipwrecked on the unvisited south side of the island. With tears streaming down his face, he gave thanks to God that 1) he had been born in a part of the world “where I was distinguish’d from such dreadful Creatures as these,” 2) he had been able to live in such comparative comfort since the shipwreck, and 3) he had a relationship with God that sustained him even when he struggled.

Robinson’s discovery served to make him feel safer than previously because he realized that the cannibals “never came to this Island in search of what they could get,” as evidenced by the fact that he had lived there for nearly eighteen years without ever coming across a sign of visitors. They seemed only to use the island for their feasts and perhaps as a waypoint for their travels to other places. As long as he did not reveal himself, there was little chance that he would be discovered.

Even though his fears were assuaged, Robinson felt such abhorrence at the customs of the “hellish wretches” that he “continu’d pensive, and sad” for the next two years and remained at one or another of his “Plantations” during that time. He could not bring himself to retrieve his canoe on the chance that he would encounter them, so he resolved to go forward with making a second canoe on his own side of the island. Robinson was also very cautious about firing his gun for fear that the cannibals would hear it, and he was thankful that he had the tamed herd of goats to sustain him.

He returned to his calm former life, with the difference that he went about heavily armed at all times. He also began to focus on ways he “might destroy some of these Monsters in their cruel bloody Entertainment, and if possible, save the Victim they should bring hither to destroy.” He thought of many contrivances to do so, finally setting on the idea of ambushing them, hiding in a nearby thicket of trees before their canoes landed and then attacking them from cover. Having selected a location and loaded his guns, for the next two or three months Robinson hiked daily to the top of the hill, hoping to see canoes upon the water.

Eventually, he tired of his watch, and he also began to feel scruples about the mass murder he had been contemplating. With “cooler and calmer Thoughts,” he reasoned:

What Authority, or Call I had, to pretend to be Judge and Executioner upon these Men as Criminals, whom Heaven had thought fit for so many Ages to suffer unpunish’d, to go on, and to be as it were, the Executioners of his Judgments one upon another. How far these People were Offenders against me, and what Right I had to engage in the Quarrel of that Blood, which they shed promiscuously one upon another, I debated this very often with my self thus; How do I know what God himself judges in this particular Case; it is certain these People either do not commit this as a Crime; it is not against their own Consciences reproving, or their Light reproaching them. They do not know it be an Offence, and then commit it in Defiance of Divine Justice, as we do in almost all the Sins we commit, They think it no more a Crime to kill a Captive taken in War, than we do to kill an Ox; nor to eat humane Flesh, than we do to eat Mutton.

Looked at in this way, these men were not “Murtherers,” nor did their actions among themselves affect Robinson directly. He was willing to defend himself if attacked, but he recognized that killing them unprovoked would “justify the Conduct of the Spaniards in all their Barbarities practis’d in America, where they destroy’d Millions of these People.”

Not only would killing a group of cannibals violate the principles of “Christian Compassion,” but Robinson realized that it would bring on his own destruction. To succeed, he would have to prevent even one cannibal from escaping lest he trigger an attack by “Thousands to revenge the Death of their Fellows.” Faced with both practical and moral arguments against an ambush, Robinson decided to “leave them to the Justice of God.”

Another chapter full of incident! Once again, we will have an extra day for discussion and will move on to the next part on Friday.

I was surprised that RC used an argument of moral relativity when he decided not to attack the cannibals if they came again. Of course, we have already discussed the sort of moral blindness that he experiences when he is perfectly willing to enslave (to him) the very same type of people and does not see that as violating "Christian Compassion." Just as he has no compunction about eating mutton, we have also seen him killing a lion for sport.

At the same time, he didn't have the heart to kill the first goat he captured and tamed, and he has close relationships with the animals in his "Kingdom."

I wonder how Robinson will respond if he really comes across some of the cannibals. When he saw the footprint, the calm and balance he had nurtured disappeared almost immediately, so will he be able to resist acting as judge and executioner if he is faced with a real and not hypothetical situation?

I look forward to your thoughts!

It so happens that apart from the main gate, we have another gate that opens out into the forest, and yesterday we discovered that someone had attempted to break the lock on it. So I can very much relate to the fear of intrusion that Robinson experienced, and how the thoughts of protecting himself and/or attacking the evil replaced the usual, more pleasant and productive thoughts.

But finding the bones! What a nightmare for Robinson! I must admit, I am impressed by how he managed to see his living on the other side of the island as a blessing, instead of focusing on the horror of having cannibals for neighbours.

Robinson's moral relativism: oh yes! When he was talking about that aged goat, I thought his attitude to animals must have changed, but in practically the next paragraph, he mentioned killing the extra cats :( So, apparently, he felt more affinity with the aged goat than with the cats %)
With the savages, he began to be 'weary of the fruitless excursion' first, and then he also saw the danger of his plan. Now, this is still growth for Robinson! The man that he was years ago probably wouldn't have thought twice. But the way he begins with being tired and doubtful, and ends with God's will sounds... not perfectly honest to me. With the necessary qualification that, of course, finding good reasons for not doing things we don't want to do is very natural and human, and on the other hand, I do think it was a bad idea to attack the savages!

The Spaniards passage is sad for me. You probably know that Spain still celebrates the National Day on the 12th of October, the day Columbus discovered America. The whole colonial story per se is not mentioned much now, but a military parade is a big part of the celebration. I was not born in Spain, but this is my country, and I am ashamed of the Spanish colonial crimes, and, frankly, I didn't know that even Defoe knew the Spanish were the worst, although my Penguin Classics edition tries to reassure me that Crusoe is 'one-sided' and that the Spanish were maybe not much worse than other European colonists. There is little consolation in that.

Plateresca: "But the way he begins with being tired and doubtful, and ends with God's will sounds... not perfectly honest to me."

This was my thought as well. Two or three months is quite a long time to carry such murderous thoughts without any scruples. RC also realized that it was a foolhardy plan and that he would almost certainly be killed (and eaten!) if he were to reveal himself and attack the cannibals.

although my Penguin Classics edition tries to reassure me that Crusoe is 'one-sided' and that the Spanish were maybe not much worse than other European colonists. There is little consolation in that.

Spain was about a century ahead of England in establishing a global Empire. However, Robinson was born in 1632, when the British had just founded their colonies in the West Indies. Large sugarcane plantations were created there in the 1640s at the beginning of what is known as the Sugar Revolution. At first indentured servants were used for labor and worked alongside enslaved Africans, but very quickly planters shifted exclusively to slaves.

African slaves faced horrific conditions. Approximately one-third died before they even reached their port of departure in Africa, and a further ten percent died on the Middle Passage. Many others contracted scurvy or other debilitating diseases during the voyage, when they were fed barely enough to stay alive and would never see the sun.

Once they arrived in the West Indies, their lives were excruciating and short. Sugar cane farming and harvesting is brutally difficult, slaves were fed barely enough to survive, and Africans lacked immunity to many New-World diseases. Most slaves were not expected to live more than twenty years, and there was a 3.51% annual mortality rate. Infant mortality is estimated to have been 50%, so the importation of new slaves was necessary to maintain adequate numbers.

Sugar production also drove the slave trade in Brazil, and we know from the text that Robinson was well aware of slavery there and even hoped to profit by it. During the 17th century, more than one million African slaves were imported to Brazil, more than doubling the 428,000 slaves imported to British colonies during that period.

It seems to me that there is no point in debating which nation was "worse" or in comparing genocides. Both Spain and Britain were involved in the same activities in their colonies in the Caribbean, and both nations decimated indigenous peoples as well as Africans.

Sources
Slavery in the British and French Caribbean: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery...
Slavery in Brazil: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery...

Summary of (Chapter 18)

For the next year, Robinson avoided seeking out the cannibals so that he would not be “tempted to renew any of my Contrivances against them, or be provok’d by any Advantage which may present it self, to fall upon them.” He did, however, move his boat and all of its equipment from the north side of the island to the east side, where he knew that the cannibals never ventured because of the treacherous currents. He rarely left his “Cell” except to do tasks such as milking his goats, and when he did that he was extremely wary.

Robinson often reflected with dread on the position he would have been in if he had been discovered by the cannibals, and he was thankful that he had avoided that danger when it had been unknown to him. He reflected on the “secret Hint” that often directs our actions when we are unsure which option to choose, and he resolved to obey the “Intimations of Providence” whenever they arose. The narrator adds that this habit served him afterwards many times during his residence on the island.

Constant concern for his safety “put an End to all Invention, and to all the Contrivances that I had laid for my future Accommodations and Conveniences.” He feared to make any noise and also worried about smoke from his cooking fire that could attract notice. For the latter reason, he took to firing his pots near “my new Apartment in the Woods” rather than at his seashore habitation.

While there, he decided that his cooking fire would be less detectable if he managed to make some charcoal. One day, when he was cutting wood for this project, he discovered a sizable cave hidden behind some branches.

As he investigated the entrance and looked in, he suddenly saw “two broad shining Eyes of some Creature, whether Devil or Man I knew not, which twinkl’d like two Stars.” Terrified, he leaped back, but then he recovered his composure and told himself that “he that was afraid to see the Devil, was not fit to live twenty Years in an Island all alone.” He returned to the cave with a torch but broke into a cold sweat when he heard “a very loud Sigh, like that of a Man in some Pain, and it was follow’d by a broken Noise, as if of Words half express’d.”

Robinson reminded himself that God would protect him, and he approached the cave again. This time, he saw that inside the cave there lay “a most monstrous frightful old He-goat, just making his Will, as we say, and gasping for Life, and dying indeed of meer old Age.”

Unable to move the goat, he stepped past it to explore the cave further. He found that, although it was spacious at the entrance, it was not deep other than in one place, where it was too low to stand upright. Since he did not have a candle, he was unable to go further into this small passage.

The next day, Robinson returned with candles and crawled deeper into the cave. It extended about ten yards and then opened into a “glorious Sight,” a large grotto that seemed to be encrusted with diamonds or some other precious material and which reflected the light of his candles. Not only that, but the floor was dry and level, and he thought that it would be a perfect place to conceal and store his weapons and ammunition.

When he began to move those items to the new cave, Robinson discovered that the cask of powder that he had assumed to be completely ruined by seawater was in fact mostly usable. Water had hardened the outer part but had also sealed the center. He was pleased also to think that “If five hundred Savages were to hunt me, they could never find me out; or if they did, they would not venture to attack me here.”

The day after he discovered the cave, the goat died, and Robinson buried him where he was rather than trying to drag him out.

Now, in his twenty-third year on the island, Robinson “was so naturaliz’d” that he could be content to die there of old age eventually as the goat had. He had taught Poll to speak quite well, so he felt less lonely. While it lived, his dog had been a good companion to him as well. He kept two or three cats, and also two or three tame kids. Not only that, but he had captured and tamed various sea birds and two more parrots, so he had constant company.

Illustrations: The Dying Goat

Today's episode has been a popular subject for illustrators of Robinson Crusoe.


Robinson Crusoe terrified at the dying goat
Thomas Stothard, 1782


Crusoe discovers a dying goat in a cave
George Cruikshank, 1831


Crusoe finds a dying goat
Unknown author, published in Cassel, 1863


I stirred him a little
Wal Paget, 1891

Over to you!

Just to say I'm still here, and really enjoying all the research and illustrations from Erich and additional comments and responses from everyone, thank you!

I never realised there was so many Christian references - and also subtext - in this book!

The large grotto with the sparkling minerals in its walls seemed to have the feeling of a cathedral, especially since Robinson has been reflecting on his intuitive directions from God. It will be interesting to see if this room is anything more than just a place to store his weapons and powder.

The incident with the goat was somewhat disturbing, I found. The goat went there for a peaceful death and Robinson comes in to disturb this and poke at him, when the goat was at it's most vulnerable time.
I wonder why Defoe added the goat to this scene.

I also wonder why the cave was added. It's a secluded spot. Why would Robinson need such a secluded, hidden location? Perhaps it's all the talk about cannibals and fear that is making me think this way.
I also thought that the cave could be dangerous for Robinson if he uses it as a hiding hole, should the cannibals come back. If he hides there and they find him, he has no exit.

Robinson has been exploring the island for 23 years now and it is still showing him surprises and secrets.

Connie: "The large grotto with the sparkling minerals in its walls seemed to have the feeling of a cathedral, especially since Robinson has been reflecting on his intuitive directions from God."

It also reminded me of earlier in the book when Robinson mentions the gold coins in the ship and how he would trade all of them for half a gross of tobacco pipes. The cave has value to him because of the flat and sandy floor rather than the gems or metals reflected by his candles. Even so, he can't help but remark on the amazing sight.

GR just ate my comments I made. Aaugh! First I hadn't gotten any notifications about comments on the thread since the evening of JUl 20th. I finally had time today to go to the group site and check things out. I've managed to stay on track with the readings so just caught up with all the comments.
I so appreciate Erich's research, summaries and analysis. The connection to biblical and literary references were especially illuminating. BTW when RC opened his bible to Psalm 27, it made me smile as that is one of my favorites. I oved the thought that RC may follow the allegory of the Prodigal Son.

I must say all the illustrations show RC as dressed for much cooler weather than what is described on the island!

Petra just mentioned that RC had been on the island for 23 years and was still discovering things. He has done such a remarkable job in making a life for himself, but it was still surprising that he hadn't mapped out the entire island in all that time!

There was lots to reflect on in these past couple of chapters and everyone has done a great job in commented on the most salient points. What has stuck with me is how long (YEARS!) RC was driven by fear or unease since he came across the footprint and the apparent site of cannibalism. It must have taken a toll on him as his life became more circumscribed. Besides his reflection on his relationship with God, I was struck about his rumination & appreciation of his animal companions.

Petra: "I also thought that the cave could be dangerous for Robinson if he uses it as a hiding hole, should the cannibals come back. If he hides there and they find him, he has no exit."

He likes that the entrance to the grotto is narrow and would only allow one person at a time to enter. Although they could smoke or starve him out, it would be very difficult for attackers to harm him in the grotto with a store of weapons and ammunition. He regretted adding an exit to his original cave because it made him more vulnerable, so this one feels safer to him.

That's a good point about the cave's sandy flat floor, Erich. When someone is in survival mode, they have to think first in a pragmatic way.

Bionic Jean wrote: "Just to say I'm still here, and really enjoying all the research and illustrations from Erich and additional comments and responses from everyone, thank you!

I never realised there was so many Christian references - and also subtext - in this book!"

Good to hear from you, Jean!

I haven't read the book for many years and didn't remember as many of those references either.

Samuel Taylor Coleridge on Robinson Crusoe as a Representative of Humanity

from the Norton critical edition:

The charm of De Foe's works, especially of Robinson Crusoe, is founded on the same principle. It always interests, never agitates. Crusoe himself is merely a representative of humanity in general; neither his intellectual nor his moral qualities set him above the middle degree of mankind; his only prominent characteristic is the spirit of enterprise and wandering, which is, nevertheless, a very common disposition. You will observe that all that is wonderful in this tale is the result of external circumstances - of things which fortune brings to Crusoe's hand.

[...]

Compare the contemptuous Swift with the contemned De Foe, and how superior will the latter be found. But by what test? Even by this. The writer who makes me sympathise with his presentations with the whole of my being, is more estimable than the writer who calls forth and appeals to but a part of my being - my sense of the ludicrous for instance; and again, he who makes me forget my specific class, character, and circumstances, raises me into the universal man.

[...]

One excellence of De Foe among many is his sacrifice of lesser interest to the greater because more universal. Had he (as without any improbability he might have done) given his Robinson Crusoe any of the turn for natural history which forms so striking a delightful feature in the equally uneducated Dampier [who was among other things a naturalist and the first European to explore parts of what is today Australia and who rescued Alexander Selkirk} - had he made him find out qualities and uses in the before (to him) unknown plants of the island, discover a substitute for hops, for instance, or describe birds, etc. - many delightful pages and incidents might have enriched the book; but then Crusoe would cease to be the universal representative, the person for whom every reader could substitute himself. But now nothing is done, thought, or suffered, or desired, but what every man can imagine himself doing, thinking, feeling, or wishing for.

Even so very easy a problem as that of finding a substitute for ink is with exquisite judgment made to baffle Crusoe's inventive faculties. Even in what he does he arrives at no excellence; he does not make basket work like Will Atkins. The carpentering, tailoring, pottery, are all just what will answer his purpose, and those are confined to needs that all men have, and comforts all men desire. Crusoe rises only where all men may be made to feel that they might and that they ought to rise - in religion, in resignation, in dependence on, and thankful acknowledgement of the divine mercy and goodness.

Summary of (Chapter 19)

In December of his twenty-third year on the island, Robinson went out regularly to harvest his grain crop. One morning, he was surprised to see light from a fire on the shore about two miles away on his own side of the island. He was fearful lest the cannibals should discover him or his grain fields, so he did his best to make the area around his “Castle” look as natural as possible and prepared to defend himself within his enclosure. He spent the next two hours loading all of his weapons and praying to God for protection, and then he waited impatiently.

After some time, he could no longer bear to sit in ignorance, so he used his ladder to mount to the top of the hill and scanned the area with his telescope. Through the telescope, he saw at least nine “naked Savages” sitting around a fire, and he assumed that they were preparing “to dress some of their barbarous Diet of Humane flesh” since the weather was quite hot. There were two canoes visible on the shore, and Robinson divined that they were waiting for the flood tide to go away again. Before they left, the visitors danced for more than an hour as Robinson watched.

When the cannibals had gone, Robinson armed himself and climbed a hill overlooking the spot. He saw from his overlook that they had actually come in five canoes and were making their way away from the island and toward the mainland.

Descending to the beach, Robinson saw “the marks of Horror, which the dismal work they had been about had left behind it, viz. The Blood, the Bones, and part of the Flesh of humane Bodies, eaten and devour’d by those Wretches, with Merriment and Sport." He was so indignant at the sight that he “began now to premeditate the Destruction” of any cannibals who might visit the island in the future.

It appeared that the cannibals did not frequent the island because it was more than fifteen months before they returned. Robinson spent those months in “the murthering Humour” and constantly plotted how he might kill them the next time they arrived. Once again, he did not consider that there would be no end of killing were he to begin, and he “should be at length no less a Murtherer than they were in being Man-eaters.” He increased his caution, and visions of killing troubled his sleep.

One night in May, there was a terrible storm, and as Robinson sat in his enclosure reading his Bible he was surprised to hear a gunshot at sea. He hurried to the top of the hill and saw the flash of a second shot before he heard the report; it was a distress call from the area off the coast with the treacherous currents.

Although he could offer no assistance to the endangered ship, Robinson hoped that by attracting attention he might manage to be rescued. He quickly made a huge bonfire which appeared to be seen by those on the ship, as he heard several more gunshots.

Robinson kept the bonfire burning all night, and in the morning he could see what looked like a ship at anchor far off to sea. When the weather cleared, he was saddened to see that the object was a wreck; the ship had struck the submerged rocks on the northeast part of the island where he had also struggled against the current.

Robinson speculated about the chain of events the night before. Perhaps the crew had abandoned the ship in a boat when they saw the bonfire and been destroyed by the high seas. Or they might have lost their boat during the storm and been unable to leave the ship. They may have been rescued by another ship in the area. Possibly, they had managed to get into their boat but then been swept away from the island to starve in the open ocean. Robinson was almost certain that, whatever the exact scenario, the men had not survived, and he both pitied the men and felt a renewed thankfulness for being spared a similar fate.

The event also brought on “a strange longing or hankering of Desires.” If only one person had managed to survive the shipwreck, Robinson would have a companion at last, a “Fellow-Creature” with whom he could speak and share his life.

Robinson never knew whether anyone had survived the shipwreck he had witnessed, and he was tortured by the awoken craving for companionship from a “Fellow-Christian.” To his great sadness, a few days after the wreck the body of a boy washed up to the shore. In the pocket of his clothing, Robinson found two silver coins and a tobacco pipe.

It's hard to imagine the swirl of emotions that Robinson experienced during this section: disgust and rage at the cannibalism he witnessed, vengefulness and murderousness, thankfulness and humility, disappointment and pity, and deep sadness.

The last scene is especially poignant as the body is that of a boy, probably one of the ship's crew. According to one source I consulted, it took many years to master sailing a ship of that era, and so it was common for sailors to be trained from childhood.

I look forward to your comments!

Chris wrote: "First I hadn't gotten any notifications about comments on the thread since the evening of JUl 20th."

Chris, do you have the little "Notify me when people comment" box (at the bottom of this thread) checked? Goodreads used to check it automatically as the default, and you had to manually uncheck it if you didn't want notifications; but now they've adopted unchecked as the default, and as usual didn't bother to announce the change. :-(

Erich C wrote: "Another chapter full of incident! Once again, we will have an extra day for discussion and will move on to the next part on Friday.

I was surprised that RC used an argument of moral relativity whe..."

The argument Crusoe uses and question of why Defoe brings cannibals into his novel are both worth more discussion. The answer to the second question could be that he just wishes to make the novel interesting and the cannibals will provide a source of conflict, although the cannibals also take away from the realism Defoe has been trying to maintain and cause the book to read more like the fiction it is. I did not bother to research what is out there, but IMO Defoe seems to almost intentionally remind his readers that this is a novel at times and here may be an example. The technology of the umbrella has already been pointed out as seeming unrealistically mastered, and were we to think about that a bit, it seems Defoe could have come up with something simpler that would be as effective as an umbrella, (like a palm frond) and I think he was probably aware of the stretch he was taking with the umbrella but also saw the humor it added. I may be wrong. I see the same with the cannibals. The cannibals make this less like an attempt at nonfiction and remind us that it is a novel, something crafted by an author, and that may have been Defoe's motivation for some of the less believable parts. Artists have egos too.

The reasons for Crusoe's abandoning of a preemptive are twofold. First he has the practical reasoning that there is a good chance he will piss them off and they will come back for revenge. This is sound reasoning and I wish it were more spoken about today. The second reason, the moral one is phrased in an interesting way. Crusoe seems very much to follow the Great chain of being philosophy, which has God as an absolute authority, followed in hierarchy by angels, man, animals etc. The hierarchy allows some of Crusoe's moral decisions because he ranks higher than certain others, animals for example or savages. But Crusoe reasons that he should not pass judgement on the cannibals since God has not done so. He does not decide that a preemptive attack on the beings is morally wrong per se, but that Crusoe would be stepping beyond his pay grade in making the decision, which I find fascinating, because he is recognizing the authority of God and also his place below God where it is not his business to make decisions that belong to God.
Others may be reading this differently, or may have a better way of explaining but Defoe in having Crusoe reason this, has actually brought back some of the verisimilitude the addition of the cannibals took away.

Sam wrote: " Crusoe reasons that he should not pass judgement on the cannibals since God has not done so. He does not decide that a preemptive attack on the beings is morally wrong per se, but that Crusoe would be stepping beyond his pay grade in making the decision, which I find fascinating, because he is recognizing the authority of God and also his place below God where it is not his business to make decisions that belong to God."

I took this the same way, rather than as Crusoe adopting a stance of moral relativism (which wasn't characteristic of 18th-century thought). He's not questioning that cannibalism is morally wrong in an absolute sense, and that he knows this because he's been blessed with Christian revelation. He's just recognizing that the cannibals haven't been similarly blessed, and that it's God's prerogative, not his, to judge them. Defoe may have had Jesus' words in Matthew 13:24-29 in mind, though he doesn't quote them explicitly.

Neither Defoe nor his readers would have found the idea unrealistic that the "savages" inhabiting this area might practice cannibalism. These people would have been Carib Indians; and by Defoe's time there was quite a substantial body of literature by European observers (mostly Spanish but also English, French and Dutch) attributing cannibalistic practices to them, starting with Columbus. The question is whether or not this entire body of reportage should be dismissed as slander designed to justify Spanish colonialism and enslavement of the cannibals.

That question is considered in a very balanced and objective 1984 article by historian Neil L. Whitehead, "Carib Cannibalism: The Historical Evidence" (https://www.persee.fr/doc/jsa_0037-91... ). His conclusion is that, although a lot of Spanish accounts are exaggerated, and colored by economic interest (Queen Isabella had decreed in 1503 that natives who incorrigibly practiced cannibalism could legally be enslaved), and there's no indication that human flesh was actually a big or regular part of their diet, there is solid evidence that the Caribs did at times practice ceremonial cannibalism of slain enemies. (Some other Native American tribes did as well.)

Chris "GR just ate my comments I made. Aaugh!"

I'm glad you managed to work it out and have stayed on pace, Chris, and thanks to Werner for the tip about notifications. How frustrating to lose comments; it has happened to me as well, so now I draft my comments on a separate doc and then paste them in.

He has done such a remarkable job in making a life for himself, but it was still surprising that he hadn't mapped out the entire island in all that time!

He has given us a general sketch of the island and its orientation during the narrative, and he knows his way around most parts of the island, but he mentions recently that there are some parts that are new to him. That does seem strange, but it does keep things vague enough not to detract from the narrative.

And as both Plateresca and Samuel Taylor Coleridge point out, he hasn't even managed to make an ink substitute in all that time!

What has stuck with me is how long (YEARS!) RC was driven by fear or unease since he came across the footprint and the apparent site of cannibalism. It must have taken a toll on him as his life became more circumscribed.

It reminded me of Maslow's Hierarchy of Human Needs:



The threats from without have returned Robinson to the lower, more basic Safety and Physiological needs. Love and Belonging would seem to be his animal friends and perhaps his relationship with God. I find the label of Self-Actualization unsatisfying for the highest level, but I like that it shows that the basic needs must be met before problem-solving and creativity can take place.

Werner: "Sam wrote: "He's not questioning that cannibalism is morally wrong in an absolute sense, and that he knows this because he's been blessed with Christian revelation. He's just recognizing that the cannibals haven't been similarly blessed, and that it's God's prerogative, not his, to judge them. Defoe may have had Jesus' words in Matthew 13:24-29 in mind, though he doesn't quote them explicitly."

This is a great explanation. Perhaps "moral relativism" isn't the correct term for this type of stance in the sense that Robinson would view them more as benighted rather than as following a different although equally valid code of behavior. Leaving it to God to judge the cannibals is not avoiding the question so much as deferring to the greater and unknowable wisdom of God.

Even so, he can't help his anger and disgust (applying his own moral code) when he sees the remains of the sacrifice on the beach, and he returns immediately to thoughts of vengeance.

Matthew 13:24-29

Here are the Bible verses to which Werner refers in message 43:

24 Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26 When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.

27 “The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’

28 “‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.
“The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’

29 “‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them.

Great Chain of Being

And here is an image depicting the medieval concept of the Great Chain of Being that Sam mentions in message 42:



God is at the top, followed by angels, humans, animals, plants, and minerals. Angels can be subdivided into Angels of Presence (who praise God: seraphim, cherubim, thrones), Angels of Government (who spread light: dominions, virtues, powers), and Angels of Revelation (who are able to communicate with humans: principalities, archangels, angels). Although in this scheme humans are grouped together, animals are understood as existing in a hierarchy (from apex predators to mollusks), and of course a hierarchy would be used for humans as kings would be above subjects, men above women, etc.

If I'm interpreting the image correctly, it puts birds above fish which are in turn above land animals. I can understand why birds (which can fly close to heaven) might be uppermost, but I'm puzzled by the position of fish.

The Great Chain of Being also dovetails nicely with the imperial impulses we have discussed.

Source
Great Chain of Being: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_c...

Today is our break day, so there is more time for comments before we move on! We will read the next chapter on Monday.

Werner wrote: "Chris wrote: "First I hadn't gotten any notifications about comments on the thread since the evening of JUl 20th."

Chris, do you have the little "Notify me when people comment" box (at the bottom ..."
Yes, I had the box checked and once again there was nothing in my notifications that anyone had commented on this thread. I got all the notifications on the prior thread for the book. Weird.

Erich C wrote: "Werner: "Sam wrote: "He's not questioning that cannibalism is morally wrong in an absolute sense, and that he knows this because he's been blessed with Christian revelation. He's just recognizing t..."

Please pardon the long post.

Sorry to get back to this so late, but I just wanted to clarify that I wasn't trying to contradict Erich's moral relativism statement but build off it and because Crusoe is clear in explaining his reasoning and I happened to be reading Descartes' Meditations on First Philosophy I was letting the thoughts of one reflect the thoughts of the other. At first I was thinking like Werner that this reasoning seems much earlier than 18th century but Descartes published that in 1641 and Crusoe published in 1719 seems far closer when I see the dates.


But all of this is aside from my main point that Crusoe is a work that can be blessing to the critic or teacher while at the same time being a curse. It is written in a way that many things can be stated assertively using material written in support, but it seems that there is an equal amount of support for refutations of those assertions also supported by the book and determined by how the reader is processing what is being read. The book reminds me of certain populist politicians whose words trigger contradictory interpretations in the listeners in such a way that two listeners listening to the same speech hear the exact opposite of what the other hears. I started thinking of all the ways that Crusoe's narratives acts in the same way as a populist text and for fun, I am quoting some AI drafted bullet points for everyone's amusement. I don't usually quote AI and I certainly didn't bother to fact check these, but it's late and I am tired. So just for fun take a look at these and notice how many of these with a little modification fit Crusoe's narration.

Populist texts often frame political issues as a conflict between "the people" and a corrupt or out-of-touch elite. This rhetoric often uses simple, emotionally charged language and appeals to common sense, while downplaying complexities and nuances. Populist discourse frequently employs specific linguistic features like "people-centrism" and references to money, and it can be analyzed through various methods, including semantic text analysis.
Key characteristics of populist text:
"Us vs. Them":
Populist rhetoric clearly divides society into two groups: the virtuous "people" and the corrupt "elite".
Emotional Appeals:
Populist texts often rely on strong emotions like anger, resentment, and distrust to mobilize support.
Simple Language:
Populist communication tends to be straightforward, avoiding complex arguments or nuanced language.
Moralistic Tone:
Populist rhetoric often frames political issues as a moral battle between good and evil.
Anti-Establishment Sentiment:
Populist texts often express distrust of established institutions, political parties, and experts.
Emphasis on "the People":
Populist rhetoric frequently uses terms like "the people," "ordinary citizens," or "the common man" to create a sense of unity and shared identity.
Economic Grievances:
Economic issues, such as inequality and the perceived unfair distribution of wealth, are often central to populist narratives.
Rejection of Expertise:
Populist rhetoric can erode trust in experts, intellectuals, and established institutions.

So I am going to venture that Crusoe shares similarities with populist texts and as an example, I will take Defoe's introduction of cannibals once more. Werner is correct on what he said about the Carib. In fact there are disputations going on at present with different sides arguing their points on the issue and you can read these arguments from reputable sources from both sides if you wish but my comments weren't based on whether there was or wasn't a possibility of cannibals. It was based on how Defoe introduces them and what characteristics he gives them. If we are wanting verisimilitude we would probably introduce our natives without any specific prejudice at first. Verisimilitude would warrant companionship and escape, and at least the potential for trade. Natives because of boats offer the possibility of all three. Defoe negates those possibilities immediately and in describing the natives he gives them the worst attributes. When we want to persuade someone that someone is an enemy we describe them in terms like Defoe has used to describe the natives. And he has picked a particularly strong taboo, cannibalism. And I look to Defoe because, he did not have Crusoe react to the gunshots from the foundering ship with any apprehension. Heck, he had Crusoe lighting fires for attention. Did Crusoe not see Pirates from the Caribbean? In my view, Defoe in portraying the natives as negatively as he does, is taking us away from the real and bringing us more into the realm of fiction, sensationalizing the story a bit and adding the potential for conflict, but I become more conscious of the artist behind these events when it happens.