Classics and the Western Canon discussion

While there are still a few more weeks to enjoy Ovid’s poetic transformations in “The Metamorphoses,” it’s time to start planning for our next major read.

The lineup of choices includes one high vote getter from the last poll and four new selections from the group bookshelf of classics:

—The Bhagavad Gita by Krishna Vyasa
—Notes from the Underground by Fyodor Dostoevsky
—Invisible Man by Ralph Ellison
—The History of Rasselas, Prince of Abissinia by Samuel Johnson
—Orley Farm by Anthony Trollope

This week is available for member discussion of the options — what looks good to you? This is a chance to lobby for your favorites and ask any questions. The poll will go up next week for voting, and the next read will start August 20.

The Gita, Notes, or Invisible Man would be interesting. Probably Orley Farm too, though I know nothing about it. I read Rasselas a while ago and was unimpressed with Johnson as a fiction writer. Quoting from my own review: "He writes in great, rotund, artificial sentences, phrase piled upon phrase like Pelion upon Ossa, and when you reach the end you forget how the sentence began."

I'm in for the Bhagavad Gita. I read it a long time ago and, of course, i don't remember a thing. Besides being a Eastern piece of literature.

I'd say all these choices are interesting, but I would probably go for Orley Farm.

I probably won't vote in the poll. I've been around a long time, but I haven't contributed for years. I have read The Gita before. Would be nice to re-visit. The reality of death is a major theme. Fitting for anyone who read Gilgamesh.

Invisible Man is incredible as well. I would love to read it again.

The poll’s up. Please vote for a book you intend to read and discuss with the group. The poll will be open through July 29 here: https://www.goodreads.com/poll/list/1...

Ashley wrote: "I probably won't vote in the poll. I've been around a long time, but I haven't contributed for years. I have read The Gita before. Would be nice to re-visit. The reality of death is a major theme. ..."

Glad you're still around! And I hope you'll jump into the discussion if the spirit moves you.

It has been a good while since I have voted on one of our polls, but Fyodor Dostoevsky has always remained at least somewhat of an enigma to me -- despite the discussions, as for Demons or The Brothers Karamazov or Crime and Punishment. I have long understood that many consider Notes from the Underground to be perhaps Dostoevsky's most "accessible" book and a copy of it sits looking at me each day as I ascend the stairs in my home -- except when it migrates to "trying to read" status in whatever bag I'm toting at the moment. Even it I have not found easy to "crack", but with so much recently in our hearts and minds about the political world around us, I know I would deeply appreciate what might emerge in a discussion of NFTU here. (Navalny's Patriot was on the new book shelf of one of my local libraries on the same day Melissa French Gates new book arrived. I got to check out both of them.)
Patriot: A Memoir by Alexei Navalny

There’s still time to vote for our next major read. It’s a close race atm. The poll closes at midnight tonight 7/29: https://www.goodreads.com/poll/list/1...

Hi everyone! I'm also someone who participated a little years and years ago but haven't had time to devote to discussions since then. I just wanted to let everyone know that Notes from the Underground is part of a three-way "conversation" between Ivan Turgenev, Nikolai Chernyshevsky and Fyodor Dostoevsky. Turgenev addressed the new nihilism in Fathers and Sons; his point of view irritated Chernyshevsky who wrote What Is to Be Done? as a response to it (and mocked some of Turgenev's characters in his work) promoting a 'rational egoism'; and then Dostoyevsky responded to What Is To Be Done? by writing Notes from the Underground where he dismantles Chernyshevsky's theories (quite adeptly, I would say). It's a fascinating conversation if you take the time to read the three books in order. If you don't read the first two, keep in mind that you will be missing the purpose of the writing of Notes and therefore some of the understanding of it. (Joseph Frank's 5-volume biography of Dostoyevsky goes into this in depth and is absolutely excellent!)

I'm not sure if that helps or not, but I thought I'd share it! 😁

Cleo wrote: "...If you don't read the first two, keep in mind that you will be missing the purpose of the writing of Notes and therefore some of the understanding of it...."

Maybe that was a formal purpose for D. to write the book. But the book turned out to be much bigger than that. One does not have to read the other two to enjoy NFTU. It has multiple demensions. Subtle issues of human psychology are in the fabric of the text.
The book also happened to have noticeable influence on some other great pieces of literature, not only in Russian. If you are a fan of Kafaka's Metamorphosis or Salinger's The Catcher in the Rye, or sympathetic to existentialism, you might be pleasantly surprised.

Last time I read the book was more than a decade ago. If the book wins, I sure will reread it with the group.

I believe NFTU seems to be attracting some new voices. Let's hear them. Bhagavad Gita will still be here for us. Then, if the interest survives, perhaps Cleo's deep dive, whether all or in part? I believe both NFTU and BG are reasonably sized for summer reads? (Yes, I am lobbying.... )

Yes, I pretty much agree with you Bigello. I didn’t say one wouldn’t enjoy it at all. I was very careful to say without the other two books D’s purpose wouldn’t be clearly understood. And the ‘conversation’ is fun to be a part of. But absolutely, there is so much one can draw out of it nevertheless. I was just trying to give some further information that I assumed most people weren’t aware of. I read Notes independently in my first read but after reading the other two books, my second read was much more edifying.

Thanks for the tie-ins to other novels. That is indeed interesting.

I am going to be audacious enough to lobby for both Notes and Gita. I believe I see some new voices interested in exploring Notes. Let's hear from them?

Aren't both options appropriately sized for immersive summer reads, especially if one suspends Cleo's suggestion for contemporary multi-author literary interplay for another time? (Which, incidentally, was not the context in which I recall being encouraged to read Notes, i.e., to read Notes as a very useful gateway to D's longer novels. )

(I'd also be intrigued to hear more of what Bigollo is suggesting as points of comparison.)

Cleo -- absolutely, I well understood and appreciated your original comment. I only wanted to accentuate that the book could be read independantly from any historical/polemical circumstances.
I did that probably because I wanted the book to win and was afraid that your comment at this point might scare away some potential readers. :)

Ah, I understand. I’m not trying to influence anyone but I have heard of people really disliking Notes when it’s such a wonderful book. I always think that if they had the information I shared they might have more insight and a better experience. But personally I hope it wins and you all have a great time reading it! 🎉

This poll was a close race — “The Bhagavad Gita” and “Notes from the Underground” each had 20 “raw” votes. When the dust settled, “The Bhagavad Gita” edged ahead with 32 weighted votes while “Notes from the Underground” had 26 weighted votes.

But win/win, this time the group will read both books! We’ll start with “The Bhagavad Gita” on August 20 and then tackle ”Notes from the Underground” next. The schedule will be posted on August 13.

If you’re interested, check the comments to the poll for a complete summary of the raw and weighted votes: https://www.goodreads.com/poll/show/3...

Great!

I hope I can participate in the discussion of the Gita. Maybe, in the future we can read the Mahabharata too.

Rafael wrote: "Great!

I hope I can participate in the discussion of the Gita. Maybe, in the future we can read the Mahabharata too."

I am finding listening to The Essence of the Bhagavad Gita Explained by Paramhansa Yogananda as Remembered by His Disciple by Paramahansa Yogananda a very interesting experience -- having taken the quick pass through Bhagavid Gita itself. Don't know if this all is an "appropriate use" of time, but seems to lean towards obtaining some equanimity after reading the morning news articles -- my cell phone flags late entries of two major newspapers. (Both the Bhagavad Gita and this "explanation" have been available via Hoopla.)