Reading 1001 discussion

Review thread: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Questions from Penguin Random House.

1. Why did Defoe choose a woman to be his main character? Do you think she is a believable character? Is Defoe commenting on the female gender in this novel, or humankind in general?

2. Defoe seemingly contradicts himself when speaking of the Church. How is the Church represented in this novel? Consider Moll’s early life as a warden of the Church through to her redemption.

3. Study the many men that pass through Moll’s life. Are any of them good men? Do any of them respect Moll more than others? Do their social positions and wealth affect the way they view Moll and women in general?

4. Modern day critics have debated over Defoe’s exact intent. Some argue Moll Flanders is a picturesque novel, others say a fictionalized Puritan spiritual work, still others claim it is a bourgeois romance. Some critics liken this novel to a work of irony much like Jonathan Swift’s Gulliver’s Travels. Which analysis makes the most sense?

5. Some critics argue that Moll’s wit and independence prove Defoe’s respect for women while other critics argue Moll’s sinfulness and self-acknowledged depravity show Defoe’s anti-women’s rights view. Which do you agree with?

6. Consider the men Moll steals from, both husbands and victims. Is this a comment on class or gender?

7. After reading of Moll’s spiritual reawakening, do you feel Defoe is a supporter or criticizer of religion? Is he a supporter of any divine providence?

8. Compare and contrast Moll’s marriages before her life and crime and after. What are Defoe’s views on marriage?

9. If you were to consider this a work of irony, what exactly is Defoe criticizing? Is his irony even consistent throughout the novel?

I'm a little over half through the novel as of July 25, so won't be done by beginning of August but soon after hopefully. I haven't read this before but did read his Robinson Crusoe a very long time ago.
For Q#1 I think perhaps Defoe chose to have a woman as the main character for the novelty of it, as men are generally the main characters of stories. There were no women in Robinson Crusoe so I think the change appealed to him. There was a short interval, two years, between these two works. She seems a plausible character for the most part, though very strong-willed for a woman of that time.
Moll Flanders is the 2nd oldest real novel I've read, the oldest being Robinson Crusoe.

5. Some critics argue that Moll’s wit and independence prove Defoe’s respect for women...

Mrs Flanders or whatever name she's called by is portrayed as very clever and very poised under stress, so Defoe is showing respect for women, at least some of them, in this character, even though her morals are not the best.
I'm now 80% through, I'm listening to an audio recording of it. The actress has done a very nice job with it.

1. Why a woman? Well, it could hardly be a man and make the same points because women are so much more vulnerable in this society. One of my favorite sections is when Moll coaches a young woman of fortune on how to play hard to get and to preserve some of her fortune to herself - ensuring that she ends up with power in the marriage. Her soliloque there is very modern.

3/5/7. Almost all of the men in Moll's life are good in the sense that the love her and want to do well by her. She has tremendous charisma, and in my reading even Defoe loves her deeply. I think that is why the novel is so hard to parse for modern readers. It isnt fully satire or irony, but Defoe has profound sympathy with her - I think the only thing her really faults in his heart of hearts is her pride in her thieving which let her get carried away and eventually caught doing it once it was not longer due to the pressure of poverty. He is trying to make the sex stuff as shocking as possible and probably it was more so to his readers than to us now, but this never really brings her down and she has several interludes of happiness with several of them. I get the sense that he thinks all is fair in love and war and that if you can get into a decent match however it happens you make your peace and treat your partner with respect and have good sex, its all fine.

9. I get irony really only at the end. After being "cleansed" by her repentance in jail and getting a reprieve and then springing the husband to whom she is legally married, she is allowed the temporal reward of amassing a fortune - and not one concern seems to be made over the manipulations (including of her child) she uses to do it. After this last section which seems just as self-serving as all the rest, a big bow is tied on the end that they are returned to England where "we resolve to spend the Remainder of Years in sincere Penitence, for the wicked Lives we have lived." Easy enough to say once you have a cushy income of 400 a year! To me that is a very strong shot satiric shot across the bow of people who want to pretend that religion can clean up the past, but also who want to claim that the past of this delightful woman wasn't as it needed to be for her to succeed.

1. Why did Defoe choose a woman to be his main character? Do you think she is a believable character? Is Defoe commenting on the female gender in this novel, or humankind in general?

Yes, he is commenting on English society of that era, both men and women, but the women were uniquely caught in their limited by gender roles where their options were marriage, servant, governess or whore. Each of the incidents had a believable aspect to them and one would believe that they happened to some real individual but the accumulated events did add up to a bit much and makes Moll a wonderful character.

2. Defoe seemingly contradicts himself when speaking of the Church. How is the Church represented in this novel? Consider Moll’s early life as a warden of the Church through to her redemption.

Defoe did not seem to have much regard for the church as an institution but he did give some grace to a few individuals that worked for the church, in particular the minister that brought some hope to Moll both in this life and in the next. Moll, hardly seemed to be a penitent at any time. She herself repeats that she was afraid for her life and afraid of her sins but that does not mean she was really sorry for what she did. Even in the end, as Jenna points out, she had accumulated enough of a fortune that she could afford to be sincere.

3. Study the many men that pass through Moll’s life. Are any of them good men? Do any of them respect Moll more than others? Do their social positions and wealth affect the way they view Moll and women in general?


What is a good man? Almost all of her husbands truly cared for her and wanted to do what was best for her in a practical sense. Even the relationship with the most irony, with both Moll and the gentleman believing the other had money, was a caring relationship that ultimately turned out to be good companionship. The one that was "odd" was meant to be odd in that it was her brother.

4. Modern day critics have debated over Defoe’s exact intent. Some argue Moll Flanders is a picturesque novel, others say a fictionalized Puritan spiritual work, still others claim it is a bourgeois romance. Some critics liken this novel to a work of irony much like Jonathan Swift’s Gulliver’s Travels. Which analysis makes the most sense?

People love to label things don't they? The novel is full of satire and irony but it is often rather subtle rather than over the top and one learns a great deal about English society and English law by reading the book. I am sure that Defoe was aware that his readers would appreciate the sexual teasing and the romantic interludes and he filled the book accordingly. The spiritual label doesn't work for me at all as I don't see Moll ever being truly repentant for all she did. She believes she was driven to it from poverty and not having true options although she does admit that to continue to do it after having earned a fair amount of money was a mistake.

5. Some critics argue that Moll’s wit and independence prove Defoe’s respect for women while other critics argue Moll’s sinfulness and self-acknowledged depravity show Defoe’s anti-women’s rights view. Which do you agree with?

I think that Defoe really liked his character and imbued her with a great deal of self reliance, street smarts and empathetic regard for others, all to the credit of women in general. The fact that the book accumulates all sorts of episodes of misadventure does indicate that Defoe's regard for women also credited them with the ability to outsmart men and in that way, the book was a warning to men to beware of women. I did not, however, believe that Defoe was anti-women, he was simply crediting them with abilities that one needed to be mindful of.

6. Consider the men Moll steals from, both husbands and victims. Is this a comment on class or gender?

Yes, class and gender. She mostly steals from the merchant class or what we would now call the middle class, people with plate and watches and gold in their pockets but not people of truly high estate because she actually could not get close enough to them. The "gentleman" she marries is a fallen individual who makes his living by highway robbery. Moll is happy to have either a man or a woman as her victim.


7. After reading of Moll’s spiritual reawakening, do you feel Defoe is a supporter or criticizer of religion? Is he a supporter of any divine providence?


As mentioned above, Defoe does not seem to support the institution of the church and in fact, mocks it but he does have some respect for those that serve others through the church. He, like Moll, do not seem to have any idea of divine providence, all redemption and forgiveness comes from interacting with regular human beings.

9. If you were to consider this a work of irony, what exactly is Defoe criticizing? Is his irony even consistent throughout the novel?

Defoe is criticizing English society at that time with its social class system that does not allow any upward mobility, very limited options for women, and the fact that the law works only to cement the system and not as a way of applying anything called "fairness" to judgement. His irony towards women flows both ways, in that Moll is clever enough to use her limited resources to the full, but nevertheless, I felt that he really liked Moll and respected her antics even if they did reflect a certain amount of depravity and sinfulness.

My 4* rating is in consideration of the novel being 300 years old. I think it was very remarkable for its time and probably did a lot to advance English novel writing. The main character being a woman and the author a man was also unusual. Defoe had published Robinson Crusoe just a couple of years earlier, a quite different novel. I have read Crusoe, and now forty years later a second Defoe. If I continue at this pace I don't think I'll be reading another.
The story bogs down at times with excessive detail, but at other times moves along well. Overall, I enjoyed reading it. I listened to the audiobook and the reader, a woman (the novel is written first-person), was very good.

1. Why did Defoe choose a woman to be his main character? Do you think she is a believable character? Is Defoe commenting on the female gender in this novel, or humankind in general?
A woman is a good choice for a main character because females had very little rights and were easily exploited unless someone was watching out for their interests. As for believable, no. Moll is kind of like a soap opera character in her ups and downs and all the exploits and adventures through all walks of life – rich and poor, criminal and morally upright.

2. Defoe seemingly contradicts himself when speaking of the Church. How is the Church represented in this novel? Consider Moll’s early life as a warden of the Church through to her redemption.
I honestly didn’t think of the church much when reading the book. I even forgot that she had been a ward of the church. So I’m not sure how he contradicts himself. As Gail points out, the minister in Newgate prison is a sympathetic character who basically saves Moll’s life.

3. Study the many men that pass through Moll’s life. Are any of them good men? Do any of them respect Moll more than others? Do their social positions and wealth affect the way they view Moll and women in general?
They are all flawed, but then again, so is Moll. The first man she has a relationship with, the eldest brother of the family who have taken her in, is only interested in taking advantage of her and tells her he will marry her to make her compliant. As the heir of the family, he cannot marry someone with neither status nor money. Ironically, the younger brother seems to truly love and respect her, although Moll cares little for him. She fares better with middle class men, like her brother (oops!) and the lawyer who helps her with her estate (the one who dies and leaves her destitute). Men of the lower classes are looking to exploit her, not for sex (as with the upper-class men) but for money. They seem devoted when think she is a rich widow and are quick to desert her when they discover she has little money.

4. Modern day critics have debated over Defoe’s exact intent. Some argue Moll Flanders is a picturesque novel, others say a fictionalized Puritan spiritual work, still others claim it is a bourgeois romance. Some critics liken this novel to a work of irony much like Jonathan Swift’s Gulliver’s Travels. Which analysis makes the most sense?
In the preface, Defoe claims that every sin is punished, every sinner becomes penitent. The book is therefore a warning to readers to beware of people like Moll and/or becoming someone like Moll. I guess he’d say that there is a spiritual lesson in her story (or he’s pretending there is). However, all of this seems an excuse to depict every manner of debauchery. In that sense, it is perhaps it is more ironic.

5. Some critics argue that Moll’s wit and independence prove Defoe’s respect for women while other critics argue Moll’s sinfulness and self-acknowledged depravity show Defoe’s anti-women’s rights view. Which do you agree with?
I think he has respect for her. As noted in question 1, a single woman with no connections, property, or money would have been easy prey for men from every class. Moll makes her way through all these classes, adjusting to life as upper-and-middle class wife, as an emigrant farmer’s wife, and as a single con-artist.

6. Consider the men Moll steals from, both husbands and victims. Is this a comment on class or gender?
The one that sticks out to me is the drunk man she steals from because the book spends a lot of time on him as a “lesson.” The main thing he feels guilty about is that, while drunk, he slept with a prostitute and may have been exposed to a disease that he could pass on to his wife and even offspring. As Gail points out, the book is a warning to men to behave themselves.

7. After reading of Moll’s spiritual reawakening, do you feel Defoe is a supporter or criticizer of religion? Is he a supporter of any divine providence?
I agree with Jenna – I’m not sure you could say that she has a spiritual awakening because she is never truly repentant. When she first winds up in Newgate prison, she has remorse but no repentance, later she has neither remorse nor repentance. It isn’t until she is in danger of being executed that she starts praying to God. But it’s not like she becomes religious or anything; money and property and the only things that count to her, which may be why the book spends so much time with Moll listing her worth– money, property, possessions, income.

8. Compare and contrast Moll’s marriages before her life and crime and after. What are Defoe’s views on marriage?
After Moll’s second husband loses all their money and flees the country, she contemplates the nature of marriage as a business – for women of Moll’s class, marriage is a matter of survival. However, women can be pretty, smart, and talented, but if they lack status and/or money they will struggle to find a husband. Courtship often seems like a battle of wits. The clearest example of this is Moll’s fourth (?) marriage – the guy who becomes a highwayman. Both marry the other for their money and both of them are basically broke.

9. If you were to consider this a work of irony, what exactly is Defoe criticizing? Is his irony even consistent throughout the novel?
It is ironic at times, especially early on, when Moll is young and doesn’t seem to quite understand the significance of events, like the elder brother using her for sex. If there is irony later, it is the fact that Moll becomes a wealthy and respected member of society, never having repented or having been punished (too badly) for her sins.

1. Why did Defoe choose a woman to be his main character?Do you think she is a believable character? Is Defoe commenting on the female gender in this novel, or humankind in general?
I remember reading somewhere that Defoe wanted to show that women too had the power of redeeming themselves after living a sinful life; so far, in English literature, there were only examples of men undergoing some form of redemption. Some of the exploits of Moll Flanders are a bit far-fetched, especially in an era where you could be transported for stealing a loaf of bread. I am not sure her account of passing time tallies up in the number of years she proclaims. But she seems to speak genuinely.

2. Defoe seemingly contradicts himself when speaking of the Church. How is the Church represented in this novel? Consider Moll’s early life as a warden of the Church through to her redemption.
I guess there were some good and some bad examples representing the Church. While her early life as a warden of the Church was possibly on the bad side, the Father who visited her at the Old Bailey and helped her achieve her redemption was more representative of the good side of the Church.

3. Study the many men that pass through Moll’s life. Are any of them good men? Do any of them respect Moll more than others? Do their social positions and wealth affect the way they view Moll and women in general?
They were mostly self-interested and generally were trying to “use” Moll to further their ambitions or objectives; there were very few who were looking for a genuine relationship with her.

4. Modern day critics have debated over Defoe’s exact intent. Some argue Moll Flanders is a picturesque novel, others say a fictionalized Puritan spiritual work, still others claim it is a bourgeois romance. Some critics liken this novel to a work of irony much like Jonathan Swift’s Gulliver’s Travels. Which analysis makes the most sense?
Rather than picturesque, I would say picaresque, consider the various adventures, travels and stations in life that Moll has experienced, bearing in mind that she was a disreputable person for most of the novel. I’m not sold on the other labels listed. In Australian vernacular, some would say it’s a “bloody good yarn”.

5. Some critics argue that Moll’s wit and independence prove Defoe’s respect for women while other critics argue Moll’s sinfulness and self-acknowledged depravity show Defoe’s anti-women’s rights view. Which do you agree with?
I’m not sure his anti-women views filter through this, as he afforded his character some redemption at the end, whether it was deserved or not is still open for debate.

6. Consider the men Moll steals from, both husbands and victims. Is this a comment on class or gender?
Like others mentioned, her targets were mostly middle class, but I don’t think she was necessarily targeting men more often. A lot of her activity appeared very opportunistic rather than deliberate and targeting a specific group of people.