Christian Goodreaders discussion

Here's the thread where we'll discuss all things related to our group read for 2025, And the Shofar Blew (2003) by Francine Rivers. That read and discussion officially starts tomorrow!

Werner wrote: "Here's the thread where we'll discuss all things related to our group read for 2025, And the Shofar Blew (2003) by Francine Rivers. That read and discussion officially starts tomorrow!"

Werner, sorry I missed voting. The Shofar Blew sounds interesting. I picked up the book and can't wait to start reading and discussing.

Just to clarify, is the book "and the Shofar Blew" the book selected as the group read that will begin in January?

P. Pherson wrote: "Just to clarify, is the book "and the Shofar Blew" the book selected as the group read that will begin in January?"

It starts/started August 1st.

Anyway I have started - it's pretty good so far.

P. Pherson wrote: "Just to clarify, is the book "and the Shofar Blew" the book selected as the group read that will begin in January?"

Patrick, good question! Actually, I'd broached the idea of doing a January group read in another group, https://www.goodreads.com/group/show/... , not this one. It's easy to understand how the two could be confused with each other.

Doh! My fault. I somehow crossed group lines and wrote in the wrong one.

Carry on, nothing to see here ;)

:-)

Has anyone else started on this book yet? So far, I'm into Chapter 8, and very much immersed in the story.

Francine Rivers is a major author in the world of Christian fiction as published by the ECPA (Evangelical Christian Publisher's Assn.) The stereotypical portrayal of ECPA fiction, in secular and even in some Christian circles, is of shallow writing that concentrates on light romance to the exclusion of other plot concerns, ignores serious issues, and presents a whitewashed view of Christians as persons without foibles. Applied to this book, no description could be more incorrect.

Even having read far less than half of the book, I can already tell that this is a very serious, realistic, perceptive and theologically well-informed look at a fictional Christian congregation and pastoral ministry that could very easily have been drawn from life. It's dealing gut-honestly (and redemptively) with issues that impact the 21st-century American church, if anything, even more deeply now than they did in 2003, when this novel was published. I'm really hoping this read will draw a lot of participation, because I believe this book truly deserves a wide readership.

I would not have thought that about this book. Interesting.

Nancy wrote: "I would not have thought that about this book. Interesting."

Can you elaborate on why you wouldn't have thought that, Nancy?

I too am finding it quite immersive. Also frustratingly true to life on some points.

Katherne wrote: "... frustratingly true to life on some points."

Well put, Katherine!

Yes, I’m currently reading, but I’m only at the end of chapter 2. I’m not finding it compelling, but it is interesting enough to finish.
I’d started reading another title prior to this one. So, I’m splitting reading times between the two.

Yes, it is true to life in respect to selecting new church leadership. It’s also an accurate description of inner workings of most churches. I have been wondering why the author chose to make this work a novel, instead of a short story. I guess I’ll have to keep reading to find out. As I get deeper into the story, I’ll add comments.

Angie wrote: "I have been wondering why the author chose to make this work a novel, instead of a short story."

Personally, I'm a great fan of the classical tradition of short fiction. But in this case, I think the character arcs and plotlines Rivers is working with would be too complex to handle meaningfully or successfully in a short story.

Werner wrote: ":-)"

I have. I'm on page 17. I am curious to see how this all plays out.

I'm now into Chapter 15, and still very impressed with Rivers' storytelling. There is one slight blooper in the earlier chapters, however. It's stated in a couple of places that, during Centerville Christian Church's declining years, one of the elders paid the church's property taxes out of his own money. In actual reality, I don't believe there are any jurisdictions anywhere in the U.S. (even in California, where this novel is set) where churches are subject to property taxes. But that's a pretty minor criticism!

Werner wrote: "The stereotypical portrayal of ECPA fiction, in secular and even in some Christian circles, is of shallow writing that concentrates on light romance to the exclusion of other plot concerns, ignores serious issues, and presents a whitewashed view of Christians as persons without foibles. Applied to this book, no description could be more incorrect."

I agree. Christian fiction can often be fairly surface level, but that is not always the case. Francine Rivers is one of those Christian authors who I don't think could ever be accused of being shallow. Everything I have read by her so far dives deep and she is not afraid to really dig in to the dark and messy realities of sin and the ways in which it affects every one of us, as well as the ways that God can use the darkest of situations to bring about redemption and His glory.

Jessica wrote: "Francine Rivers is one of those Christian authors who I don't think could ever be accused of being shallow. Everything I have read by her so far dives deep and she is not afraid to really dig in to the dark and messy realities of sin and the ways in which it affects every one of us, as well as the ways that God can use the darkest of situations to bring about redemption and His glory."

Jessica. my reading of her work so far has been limited to one novel and what I've read of this one; but what you wrote perfectly describes what I've read!

Werner wrote: "Jessica wrote: "Francine Rivers is one of those Christian authors who I don't think could ever be accused of being shallow. Everything I have read by her so far dives deep and she is not afraid to ..."

I have read 9 of her novels so far and I have given all but one of those 5 stars.

Since I don’t usually read novels, I’m not familiar with this author’s work. However, from what I’ve read so far, she writes like someone who often reads the Bible and believes in the power of prayer.

She’s also good at threading a story. This book is interesting and a little dramatic. In the first few chapters, the pace is a little slow. By chapter 3, it speeds up and then levels off. Once non-church characters enter the scene, dimension steps in. The author starts peeling back layers of personalities. It sparks intrigue and draws readers in. You start caring about characters’ lives and the fate of their church.

Characters are likeable, except Pastor Paul. He is clearly the antagonist. The way he treats his wife is horrible. Although fiction, it’s disconcerting how a pastor and Christian is being portrayed. I hope he will greatly improve.

The character Stephen also has a wealth of issues. However, in his case, the author could be showing how we’re all still works in progress. We have flaw and weaknesses that we need God’s help to overcome. I’m not sure if that’s her intention, but maybe.

Some content is surprising. I didn’t expect those inclusions in a Christian book. I don’t want to divulge too much, in case others haven’t read yet.

I’m interested in how Pastor Paul’s life will unfold. I’m only on chapter 9.

I finished my read of the book yesterday. My five-star review is here: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show... .

For me (although I've given them a lot of thought before), to a much greater extent than I expected, this book opens up a number of issues relating to typical modern church practice which are --or would be if they were actually discussed in the church-- controversial. These include: the role of the "pastor" (or "senior pastor," in churches with multiple staff) as the effective head of the congregation, as opposed to plural leadership; related to this, the professionalization of preaching and church administration as a paid career for which persons become "qualified" through costly college and preferably seminary training, as opposed to lay ministry; and the central place that a "church building" and its maintenance has in the life of every congregation, as opposed to the 'house church" model characteristic of the book of Acts and of many churches in modern China.

Rivers doesn't actually deal directly with any of these three issues at the structural level; as I noted in my review, her focus is more on the personal attitudes and spiritual state of individual believers and professed believers as they function within the structures defined by unitary human leadership, professionalized "ministry," and building-centered church life. (And, certainly, individual attitudes and spiritual state is the most crucial factor for healthy church life.) In keeping with our group's policy of not pursuing controversial discussions, I'm not going to explore these structural issues. But I do think that they lie at the base of this novel, as the matrix in which this plot unfolds, and as circumstantial factors that influence the attitudes of some of the important characters.

Werner wrote: "For me (although I've given them a lot of thought before), to a much greater extent than I expected, this book opens up a number of issues relating to typical modern church practice which are --or ..."

I agree that this is not the correct platform for going into the details of such discussions, but I do also agree that how most churches are structured and function in the US and the potential pitfalls of that structure is important for Christians and individual congregations and denominations to think about. I think sometimes in the US there seems to be this idea of how an ideal church is supposed to look, be structured, and function so that many don't even really think about it. Much like how the pastor in this book thinks that he has to live up to this "type" of church, as portrayed initially to him by his father, in order to be a success for himself or for God. I appreciate that Francine Rivers takes on this topic and hopefully gets her audience thinking about the true meaning of Church as the united body of Christ, rather than as individual entities in some sort of competition with one another.