The History Book Club discussion

Hello Everyone,

For the week of April 27th – May 3rd, we are reading Chapter Five, p. 132 - 156
Man Is by Nature a Political Creature of the book Cleopatra: A Life by Stacy Schiff.

The seventh week's reading assignment is:

Week Seven - April 27th – May 3rd
Chapter Five, p. 132 - 156
V: Man Is by Nature a Political Creature

We will open up a thread for each week's reading. Please make sure to post in the particular thread dedicated to those specific chapters and page numbers to avoid spoilers. We will also open up supplemental threads as we did for other spotlighted books.

This book was kicked off on March 16th.

We look forward to your participation. Amazon, Barnes and Noble and other noted on line booksellers do have copies of the book and shipment can be expedited. The book can also be obtained easily at your local library, local bookstore or on your Kindle.

This weekly thread will be opened up on April 27th.

There is no rush and we are thrilled to have you join us. It is never too late to get started and/or to post.

Vicki will be leading this discussion and back-up will be Jose.
Welcome,

~Bentley

TO ALWAYS SEE ALL WEEKS' THREADS SELECT VIEW ALL

by Stacy Schiff

REMEMBER NO SPOILERS ON THE WEEKLY NON SPOILER THREADS - ON EACH WEEKLY NON SPOILER THREAD - WE ONLY DISCUSS THE PAGES ASSIGNED OR THE PAGES WHICH WERE COVERED IN PREVIOUS WEEKS. IF YOU GO AHEAD OR WANT TO ENGAGE IN MORE EXPANSIVE DISCUSSION - POST THOSE COMMENTS IN ONE OF THE SPOILER THREADS. THESE CHAPTERS HAVE A LOT OF INFORMATION SO WHEN IN DOUBT CHECK WITH THE CHAPTER OVERVIEW AND SUMMARY TO RECALL WHETHER YOUR COMMENTS ARE ASSIGNMENT SPECIFIC. EXAMPLES OF SPOILER THREADS ARE THE GLOSSARY, THE BIBLIOGRAPHY, THE INTRODUCTION AND THE BOOK AS A WHOLE THREADS.

Notes:

It is always a tremendous help when you quote specifically from the book itself and reference the chapter and page numbers when responding. The text itself helps folks know what you are referencing and makes things clear.

Citations:

If an author or book is mentioned other than the book and author being discussed, citations must be included according to our guidelines. Also, when citing other sources, please provide credit where credit is due and/or the link. There is no need to re-cite the author and the book we are discussing however.

If you need help - here is a thread called the Mechanics of the Board which will show you how:

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/2...

Introduction Thread

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Table of Contents and Syllabus

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Glossary

Remember there is a glossary thread where ancillary information is placed by the moderator. This is also a thread where additional information can be placed by the group members regarding the subject matter being discussed. Since we are discussing the same time period and the same people will be discussed in this book as in the Liberation Trilogy - please utilize those three glossary parts. They will be very helpful to you and will provide a wealth of knowledge.

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Bibliography

There is a Bibliography where books cited in the text are posted with proper citations and reviews. We also post the books that the author used in his research or in his notes. Please also feel free to add to the Bibliography thread any related books, etc with proper citations. No self promotion, please.

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Book as a Whole and Final Thoughts - SPOILER THREAD

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...--

by Stacy Schiff

Directions on how to participate in book discussions and how to follow the t's and c's - look at directives given for the discussion Landslide - What Do I Do Next?

I will modify these directives as we go along but for now utilize the information here.

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

All, we do not have to do citations regarding the book or the author being discussed during the book discussion on these discussion threads - nor do we have to cite any personage in the book being discussed while on the discussion threads related to this book.

However if we discuss folks outside the scope of the book or another book is cited which is not the book and author discussed then we do have to do that citation according to our citation rules. That makes it easier to not disrupt the discussion.

Everyone, for the week of April 27th – May 3rd, we are reading Chapter Five - Man Is by Nature a Political Creature, p. 132 - 156.

The seventh week’s reading assignment is:

Week Seven - April 27th – May 3rd, 2015
Chapter Five: Man Is by Nature a Political Creature - p. 132 - 156
Note: This week's reading starts with "In a life of barely salvaged, emotionally overblown scenes..."

Chapter Overview and Summary

Chapter Five: Man Is by Nature a Political Creature

After Caesar was killed, Cleopatra hurriedly left Rome for Egypt. Fortunately, when she arrived, she found a prosperous, peaceful kingdom. However, her sister Arsinoe, in exile in Ephesus, was still plotting against her, and she was unsure of the loyalty of her brother-husband Ptolemy XIV, so she had him killed and installed her 3-year-old son Caesarion as her co-ruler. She embarked on an ambitious building program and promoted an intellectual revival, with advances in philosophy, medicine and literature. Sadly, in the next two years the Nile didn’t flood and the crops failed. She did what she could to alleviate suffering, opening the royal granaries.

Another piece of bad luck came in the form of demands from both sides of the conflict in Rome. She sent the four legions Caesar had left her to Dolabella, who had been a favorite of Caesar's. But Cassius, one of the assassins, intercepted them and added them to his army. He was about to invade Egypt when he was summoned to Greece by Brutus. Next to come with demands was Quintus Dellius, a lieutenant of Antony’s, who convinced her to go to meet Antony.

Meanwhile, in Rome a new character had arrived on the scene: Caesar’s great-nephew Octavian, who had been adopted by Caesar in his will. He requested his legacy from Antony, who refused. Octavian worked to make Cicero his ally, helped by the fact that Cicero didn’t much like Antony. After some skirmishes, Antony and Octavian joined forces, along with Lepidus, in order to make war on Caesar’s assassins, forming the Second Triumvirate. As part of the deal, each man made up a list of people to proscribe, i.e. kill and take their fortunes. Cicero was at the top of Antony’s list, and he was ambushed on his way to the sea and beheaded. The final battle at Philippi saw Antony and Octavian triumph, with Cassius and Brutus committing suicide. They split up control of the Roman territories, with Antony getting the East, and Octavian getting Italy and Gaul, with Lepidus ultimately sidelined.

Folks, we are kicking off the seventh week of the Cleopatra discussion - we welcome you to this discussion which will last for a few months. There is no rush and we are happy to have all of you with us. I look forward to reading your posts in the months ahead.

Schiff seems pretty certain Cleopatra had her brother Ptolemy XIV poisoned, but I don't see a reference in the endnotes.

It's too bad she couldn't spend more time discussing the events leading up to the formation of the Second Triumvirate. There was a lot of political maneuvering and actual fighting going on before the meeting of the three men on that island. But that wasn't really important from Cleopatra's POV.

I happen to be reading a fictional work about Cleopatra, Cleopatra by H. Rider Haggard and have just reached the point where Dellius is summoning Cleopatra to meet with Antony. Of course the fiction is quite a bit different from the history, much more melodramatic. I wonder if anyone has made a count of the number of novels written about Cleopatra.

by H. Rider Haggard

Why would a book about Cleopatra have a bust of Nefertiti on the cover? Is there an explanation of that in the book, Vicki? Or was the cover designer a little confused? I realize it's fiction, but...

Heather wrote: "Why would a book about Cleopatra have a bust of Nefertiti on the cover? Is there an explanation of that in the book, Vicki? Or was the cover designer a little confused? I realize it's fiction, but..."

Good question, Heather. I don't actually have that edition. The one I read I got from the library and it's a pretty old edition. Maybe the publisher thought any picture of a female Egyptian ruler was good enough.

I just now found the cover picture for the edition I read.
by H. Rider Haggard

So Chapter 5-

Cicero seems to be at odds with the world including Cleopatra. He seems to be looking for reason and failing to find them.

I spend a long time reading this section and looking up some of the many characters and actions and I would remark that the value on human life seems low - if it opposes you anyway.

Roman politics, and Egyptian, seems to be modifiable by assassination as well as other means.

I did not know, or realize, that Cleopatra was in Rome when Caesar was killed - nor that he had spent so long recently beforehand in Egypt with her.

The Senate seems somewhat like our current congress in terms of trying to get things done.

I am learning a lot and I hope it will meld soon into a better understanding of western and eastern historical development.

Yes Vincent some things never change (smile) or change little.