The History Book Club discussion

Hello Everyone,

For the week of May 4th – May 10th, we are reading Chapter Six, p. 157 – 188
We Must Often Shift the Sails When We Wish to Arrive in Port of the book Cleopatra: A Life by Stacy Schiff.

The eighth week's reading assignment is:

Week Eight - May 4th – May 10th
Chapter Six, p. 157 – 188
VI: We Must Often Shift the Sails When We Wish to Arrive in Port

We will open up a thread for each week's reading. Please make sure to post in the particular thread dedicated to those specific chapters and page numbers to avoid spoilers. We will also open up supplemental threads as we did for other spotlighted books.

This book was kicked off on March 16th.

We look forward to your participation. Amazon, Barnes and Noble and other noted on line booksellers do have copies of the book and shipment can be expedited. The book can also be obtained easily at your local library, local bookstore or on your Kindle.

This weekly thread will be opened up on May 4th.

There is no rush and we are thrilled to have you join us. It is never too late to get started and/or to post.

Vicki will be leading this discussion and back-up will be Jose.
Welcome,

~Bentley

TO ALWAYS SEE ALL WEEKS' THREADS SELECT VIEW ALL

by Stacy Schiff

REMEMBER NO SPOILERS ON THE WEEKLY NON SPOILER THREADS - ON EACH WEEKLY NON SPOILER THREAD - WE ONLY DISCUSS THE PAGES ASSIGNED OR THE PAGES WHICH WERE COVERED IN PREVIOUS WEEKS. IF YOU GO AHEAD OR WANT TO ENGAGE IN MORE EXPANSIVE DISCUSSION - POST THOSE COMMENTS IN ONE OF THE SPOILER THREADS. THESE CHAPTERS HAVE A LOT OF INFORMATION SO WHEN IN DOUBT CHECK WITH THE CHAPTER OVERVIEW AND SUMMARY TO RECALL WHETHER YOUR COMMENTS ARE ASSIGNMENT SPECIFIC. EXAMPLES OF SPOILER THREADS ARE THE GLOSSARY, THE BIBLIOGRAPHY, THE INTRODUCTION AND THE BOOK AS A WHOLE THREADS.

Notes:

It is always a tremendous help when you quote specifically from the book itself and reference the chapter and page numbers when responding. The text itself helps folks know what you are referencing and makes things clear.

Citations:

If an author or book is mentioned other than the book and author being discussed, citations must be included according to our guidelines. Also, when citing other sources, please provide credit where credit is due and/or the link. There is no need to re-cite the author and the book we are discussing however.

If you need help - here is a thread called the Mechanics of the Board which will show you how:

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/2...

Introduction Thread

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Table of Contents and Syllabus

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Glossary

Remember there is a glossary thread where ancillary information is placed by the moderator. This is also a thread where additional information can be placed by the group members regarding the subject matter being discussed. Since we are discussing the same time period and the same people will be discussed in this book as in the Liberation Trilogy - please utilize those three glossary parts. They will be very helpful to you and will provide a wealth of knowledge.

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Bibliography

There is a Bibliography where books cited in the text are posted with proper citations and reviews. We also post the books that the author used in his research or in his notes. Please also feel free to add to the Bibliography thread any related books, etc with proper citations. No self promotion, please.

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Book as a Whole and Final Thoughts - SPOILER THREAD

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...--

by Stacy Schiff

Directions on how to participate in book discussions and how to follow the t's and c's - look at directives given for the discussion Landslide - What Do I Do Next?

I will modify these directives as we go along but for now utilize the information here.

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

All, we do not have to do citations regarding the book or the author being discussed during the book discussion on these discussion threads - nor do we have to cite any personage in the book being discussed while on the discussion threads related to this book.

However if we discuss folks outside the scope of the book or another book is cited which is not the book and author discussed then we do have to do that citation according to our citation rules. That makes it easier to not disrupt the discussion.

Everyone, for the week of May 4th – May 10th , we are reading Chapter Six - We Must Often Shift the Sails When We Wish to Arrive in Port, p. 157 – 188.

The eighth week’s reading assignment is:

Week Eight - May 4th – May 10th, 2015
Chapter Six: We Must Often Shift the Sails When We Wish to Arrive in Port, p. 157 – 188

Chapter Overview and Summary

Chapter Six - We Must Often Shift the Sails When We Wish to Arrive in Port

Having been summoned by Antony to Tarsus, Cleopatra wasn’t in a hurry. She received letters from Antony and others, but chose to ignore them. When she was finally ready to leave Egypt, she went with a veritable armada of supply ships. She glided up the Cydnus River in a sumptuous barge, which was elaborately decorated and perfumed. Arriving at Tarsus, she invited Antony and his entourage to a banquet on the barge, at the end of which she gave away all the decorations and furnishings. Cleopatra and Antony came to an understanding, part of which was that he would have her sister Arsinoe killed, since she was a threat. In return, she agreed to finance his later war on Parthia.

Cleopatra returned to Alexandria, followed a bit later by Antony. They had a wonderful time together – banquets, entertainments, sightseeing, roaming the streets in disguise.

Meanwhile, his wife Fulvia and brother Lucius had incited a war against Octavian and had fled to Greece, where she later died. Antony had to return to Rome to make it up with Octavian. As a result, Antony married Octavian’s half-sister Octavia. During this time, Cleopatra gave birth to twins, Alexander Helios and Cleopatra Selene, offspring of Antony. In 37 BC, Antony finally decided it was time to take on the Parthians.

Folks, we are kicking off the eighth week of the Cleopatra discussion - we welcome you to this discussion which will last for a few months. There is no rush and we are happy to have all of you with us. I look forward to reading your posts in the months ahead.

The banquets given by Cleopatra on her barge are incredible. Imagine giving away furniture to your guests.

I don't know if I could part with any of that furniture if I were in her place. But then again, she was so used to it all she didn't consider it anything special.

It would be interesting to see an inventory of the ships she sailed with to Tarsus - how many couches, tables, etc. And a purchase order for all the food.

Antony's wife Fulvia is almost as interesting as Cleopatra. Her first husband was Clodius, a famous demagogue and enemy of Cicero. Her second marriage was to Curio, who died in Africa battling the Pompeian forces in the civil war. Her daughter with Clodius was married to Octavian; he divorced her to marry Livia. I'll put up a glossary entry about her soon.

I just started this group bought the book on amazon and started reading it today so I will try and catch up.

Gwen

Welcome to the group, Gwen. I hope you like the book and look forward to your comments.

Fulvia does sound interesting. Looking forward to reading more in the glossary.

Hi All

Again sorry to be so late.

Msg 5 – Vicki & Msg 6 Samantha - I think that to Cleopatra gifts were part of doing business. No much different than the Koch brothers holding court and distributing money.

Msg 8 – I am away and off line writing this – I have a read copy of the commentary page. I will look for Vicki’s note on Fulvia when I can. She is certainly industrious, loyal and smart and might possibly have been more interesting thah Cleo if she had been born a queen.

I must say that Antony’s drive and ability to go for what he wanted – sexually and otherwise – seems to be the tip of the iceberg for such an interesting person.

I find it hard to keep all the intrigues straight – or at least work – would have been easier (I must do this with maps) if I could envision the distances and overall geography.

Seeing Cleo get her sister killed and thinking on all the other family members having been killed I will assume that Cleo felt, or knew in her heart, that if these others were not eliminated she and her progeny would have likely been killed instead. Any thoughts on this?

Glad you're sticking with this, Vincent. You're probably right that if Arsinoe had managed to gain power, she would have had Cleopatra and any offspring killed. It was dangerous to be part of a royal family in those days.

Good discussion.